NBA trade season

[Cellar-Door]

If there is anything this thread has shown me is that I have no idea how to properly assess the tradable values of the picks or the current players in the league. Truly every time I think player X is roughly worth $ or equal to player Y or pick A one of you posts something and I realize I'm dead wrong... Or didn't think of that other thing.

So carry on, and thanks in advance for showing me why NBA GM isn't ever going to be on my resume.

to be fair nobody else knows either, especially when it comes to "stars", they rarely get traded, and usually it's when they're expiring or forcing their way out. Also people have a hard time lining up what a trade was valued at the time, vs how it turned out in hindsight. (examples being, Pau Gasol trade not terrible in hindsight, was awful at the time. Chris Paul trade, not that awful at the time, brutal in hindsight.)

 

[Devizier]

to be fair nobody else knows either, especially when it comes to "stars", they rarely get traded, and usually it's when they're expiring or forcing their way out. Also people have a hard time lining up what a trade was valued at the time, vs how it turned out in hindsight. (examples being, Pau Gasol trade not terrible in hindsight, was awful at the time. Chris Paul trade, not that awful at the time, brutal in hindsight.)

Chris Paul trade was brutal at the time.

Yeah, people had hopes for Eric Gordon, but his peak was something like Michael Redd. Chris Paul was already (basically) the best ever at his position. I think that trade was closer to the Harden trade than any other. But I'm glad the Lakers got boned.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown, 2018 Nets pick and Amir Johnson's contract for Boogie? If you needed to add in 2019 Clips or Memphis pick, would you do it?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown, 2018 Nets pick and Amir Johnson's contract for Boogie? If you needed to add in 2019 Clips or Memphis pick, would you do it?

Hard, hard, hard. Whether I do that deal or not I feel bad about it afterward.

 

[pjheff]

With so many draft picks, I am including Yabusele and Zizic here, it is somewhat wasting a selection like the Boston 2018 first rounder by not trading it when you can use it to improve the team this year attempting at making a better run. Danny and Brad may just value other things, in the course of a game, much more than a rebounding big they can go out and get. Even with that, now is the time to cash in some of the lesser chips if they can

I largely agree. The packed roster has seen Ainge kick the 31st and 35th picks of the 2016 draft down the road while obtaining no value from the 51st selection. The 28th pick from 2015 has already been waived with the #17 selection from 2014 soon to follow. The 33rd pick from 2015 has not progressed and might have his roster spot in jeopardy this summer, and the #16 selection from the same year could well lose his limited minutes after this next draft. We could conceivably extract more value from these assets by using them to make a deeper run this year as opposed to drafting more flotsam and jetsam.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown, 2018 Nets pick and Amir Johnson's contract for Boogie? If you needed to add in 2019 Clips or Memphis pick, would you do it?

Yes and yes. Without much reservation.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown, 2018 Nets pick and Amir Johnson's contract for Boogie? If you needed to add in 2019 Clips or Memphis pick, would you do it?

Yesterday and both Clips and Memphis picks. The Nets pick next year could be in the 5-7 range.

 

[bowiac]

A year ago, I'd have made that trade immediately. My only concern is that the title window seems pretty closed right now even with a trade like that, due to the Warriors. I can see a case for passing, just cause there's not much chance of contention in the next couple years even with Boogie. That's probably overvaluing the concept of a "title window", but it's something to think about.

I would do it however if I could also find a way to get Butler (Bradley, 2017 Nets pick, whatever Clips/Memphis picks are left, Celtics picks down the road). That's probably not enough of course.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Even so, Cousins is still only 26, so even if your window is four years away, by keeping the 2017 pick you have the possibility of having a 30 year old Boogie with a 24 year old Markelle Fultz as a foundation, plus a top 5 team in the interim.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

To the above trade proposal, if Cousins had Duncan's temperament, yes. Since he's more Rasheed Wallace, every fair trade proposal for him makes me wince. Seems like he has as much potential to destroy the franchise as save it. And for a currently competitive team with top assets we can dream on, we don't really need saving. The suggestion/fear above that Boogie is Ainge's White Whale is spot on. The Pequod didn't fare so well in the end...

 

[sox311]

The number one consideration when talking about the big ticket items, which are Jaylen, 2017 Nets pick, and 2018 Nets Pick, is really if you subscribe to the "title window" theory.

If you think Golden State and Cleveland have the next four titles wrapped up then you step away from the table and try to contend, which they are doing well at now, with the foundation you have now and the draft picks you have coming to build the future.

There is nothing more valuable in this league than top draft picks to build with.

The 2012 NBA finals are the example. KD, Russ, and Harden at their young ages made it. And if their management were as good as their drafting they could have kept all of them, and with the new CBA it would be easier to do so in today's NBA.

But if your believe the Warriors and Cavs are beatable the next three years and there is a chance to raise banner 18, you do it if you can get Butler, Boogie, PG13, or Drummond, not sure who else though.

I'm in the contend now with Isaiah, Horford, Smart and others while building for the future with eight years of control for Jaylen, hopefully Fultz, and the 18 pick camp.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

If I was assured of a median outcome of my projections for Fultz this year and any one of Porter/Ayton/Doncic next year, I'd be all for moving the window back- that'd be fun as hell to watch develop and God knows I've gotten myself irrationally psyched up about far lesser prospects donning the green- but the downside risk is that instead you end up with the worst-case-scenario outcome for Ball, Jackson or Smith Jr and a bust of a mid-lotto pick next year. It's tough to forgo a 26 year old currently putting up 27.8/10.8/4.9/1.4/1.3 for that.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown, 2018 Nets pick and Amir Johnson's contract for Boogie? If you needed to add in 2019 Clips or Memphis pick, would you do it?

Cousins is staying put in Sacramento but you do this deal every day if he was available - I think he would cost more though in terms of other rotation players at least. He is relatively young, he is elite and is arguably the best player at a position where there is a scarcity of strong talent. Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Smith may all be great but, the C's aren't assured of getting any of them, they may take years to pan out and the guy whom they select might never be anything better than a rotation player at best.

There are several problems with holding off on a deal because of the strength of the Cavs and the Warriors. First, this assumes that the assets you hold will not decline in value. Players age, injury risk is real and, as mentioned above, prospects don't pan out.

Furthermore, it assumes that there aren't injuries or fall-off on either or both of the Warriors or Cleveland. LeBron is currently second in the league in minutes which isn't conducive to staying healthy, especially deep into the post-season and the rest of their squad is both older and, in the case of Love, seemingly prone to injury. While the Warriors are currently a buzz-saw, does your opinion of them change if Durant or Curry goes down or one of them leaves?

As I said above, Cousins appears to be the kind of guy that Danny would go all in for and its for good reason. Its too bad he isn't even an option for the Celtics though because it would be a great match for both him and Boston.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

It seems like the star to target at this point is Paul George. That team seems hugely dysfunctional. Nobody in the locker room seems to like each other, and this week George refused to commit verbally to re-signing, saying that he wanted to play for a winning team. The wheels are starting to come off a bit there, and there isn't an obvious path for them to improve quickly.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Pacers are reportedly looking to bolster their roster by offering their 1st round pick but can't imagine that would be enough to really make much of a difference. The Celtics and Pacers line up quite well if the Pacers were ever to get to the point of dealing.

 

[LondonSox]

Balking at including Brown to get a boogie is madness.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Bird said as recently as three weeks ago that he wants to keep George. Obviously things can change but the new CBA really gives teams every advantage in keeping their stars and, even in situations like Chicago and Indiana, they have strong incentives not to deal away faces of the franchise if only to keep people showing up at the gate.

At this point, if Ainge can shore up rim protection, rebounding and maybe some bench scoring, he will have done his job at the deadline. On the other hand, I would not be surprised if the Celtics make no moves at all.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

The CBA can only do so much for the top players. As it is, the top handful make more from endorsements each year than from salary. (Even Kobe still makes $25M/yr from endorsements). If a guy thinks he'll win more elsewhere, gain a higher profile, and reap more in endorsements, it can make all kinds of sense to leave, even if his team can offer more per year.

I fully endorse a get-Paul-George effort.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Under the new CBA, the difference is pretty huge. If Kawhi becomes a FA, he can sign a 5/243.6mil contract with the Spurs in 2019. With another team, he is limited to 4 years, and only gets 5% raises instead of 9%.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Under the new CBA, the difference is pretty huge. If Kawhi becomes a FA, he can sign a 5/243.6mil contract with the Spurs in 2019. With another team, he is limited to 4 years, and only get's 5% raises instead of 9%.

Yes - they leave an enormous amount of money on the table if they choose to leave. This isn't to say that guys won't leave their teams but teams have a pretty massive advantage with their stars. Furthermore, why would Indiana, who is currently the sixth seed or Chicago, who is currently the eight seed, trade their biggest stars in what would essentially be a rebuilding package? How, exactly, would they sell that to people who purchase tickets to their games?

This isn't to say trades won't happen but between the financial incentives the players have to remain with their teams and the fact that the best targets for the Celtics are with teams who in contention for the playoffs, they just aren't likely - at least not in-season.

That said, I expect if you saw Ainge's call history, there would be a lot of outbounds to the 312, 317 and even the 916 area codes. In fact, I'd like to think that Danny has dialed that last one just about every day and maybe multiple times a day - maybe it looks like the call history of a jilted lover...

 

[moly99]

It's probably best to think of windows as being partly opened or closed. Even with a trade for an All-Star, we probably only have a 5-10% chance at a title this year and a 10-15% chance at a title next year.

Bringing up the Chris Paul trade is interesting, because even with the Clippers winning that trade handily (and having Griffin and Jordan), they still don't have any hardware. That's basically my fear about trading in the Nets picks now to go after the big beasts with a core of Thomas + Butler. That's likely not enough to beat out the Warriors in a seven game series.

Trading Thomas and Bradley to a team like Philly means punting on a chance at a title this season, but it probably increases our chances of a title sometime in the next six years.

 

[JakeRae]

It's probably best to think of windows as being partly opened or closed. Even with a trade for an All-Star, we probably only have a 5-10% chance at a title this year and a 10-15% chance at a title next year.

Bringing up the Chris Paul trade is interesting, because even with the Clippers winning that trade handily (and having Griffin and Jordan), they still don't have any hardware. That's basically my fear about trading in the Nets picks now to go after the big beasts with a core of Thomas + Butler. That's likely not enough to beat out the Warriors in a seven game series.

Trading Thomas and Bradley to a team like Philly means punting on a chance at a title this season, but it probably increases our chances of a title sometime in the next six years.

So, Fivethirtyeight currently projects the Celtics to have a 5% shot at the title and thinks they are the 4th best team in the league. At the same time, the Cavs, at third, only have a 10% shot because the Warriors have a greater than 50% chance of winning. I think your numbers are right as to the odds with bringing in a Butler or Cousins, but that's much more about the Warriors than the Cavs. In the end, the Celtics can improve to where they are, maybe, even with the Cavs but that doesn't actually get them too far from a title odds standpoint. More generally, I think all these conversations consistently underrate how good this team already is. But, if we're thinking title or bust, nothing moves the needle much even with how good we are, because the Warriors are light years better.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

It's probably best to think of windows as being partly opened or closed. Even with a trade for an All-Star, we probably only have a 5-10% chance at a title this year and a 10-15% chance at a title next year.

Bringing up the Chris Paul trade is interesting, because even with the Clippers winning that trade handily (and having Griffin and Jordan), they still don't have any hardware. That's basically my fear about trading in the Nets picks now to go after the big beasts with a core of Thomas + Butler. That's likely not enough to beat out the Warriors in a seven game series.

Trading Thomas and Bradley to a team like Philly means punting on a chance at a title this season, but it probably increases our chances of a title sometime in the next six years.

The Celtics are not going to trade IT4 anytime soon, regardless of there being some very good arguments why they should. The NBA hasn't released jersey sales stats for the period after December but I would bet Thomas' jersey has climbed the charts. And he puts butts in the seats at the Garden and gets Celtics fans to travel when they are on the road.

This is not lost on the Celtics management and while Ainge and Stevens are and should be focused on the long-term plan, they have a business to run. If they punt on Thomas now, even if the return is great - and its not clear that it would be for all the reasons covered in this forum - the casual fans who have been buying jerseys and tickets to the game aren't going to be showing up.

In short, let's dispense with the idea that Thomas is on the block this week, if only because there is simply no obvious trade that works for both the C's and a prospective trading partner.

 

[Reardon's Beard]

I think if you add one more big player on this team, whether a scoring wing like Butler or a post player like Boogie than you can punch your way out of the Eastern Conference. This. Year. I'm not saying it would be easy but if you play hard, trust the system, and hit your shots - there is no reason this team can't make the Finals with a little luck along the way. And I think their chances increase every game from now and onward into the future.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

The trade options will be there every season for the next like five seasons given the level of young assets entering the system. This rebuild has always been about flexibility. Ainge almost traded for AI with assets he eventually used to get Kevin Garnett. Not saying Butler is AI by any means but once you cross that bridge, it's Finals or bust and no matter what you do this year you're going to be dogs to Lebron and huge dogs to the Dubs. Stay the course, build something to last, not something to shine brightly and burn out quickly.

 

[NoXInNixon]

The Celtics are not going to trade IT4 anytime soon, regardless of there being some very good arguments why they should. The NBA hasn't released jersey sales stats for the period after December but I would bet Thomas' jersey has climbed the charts. And he puts butts in the seats at the Garden and gets Celtics fans to travel when they are on the road.

This is not lost on the Celtics management and while Ainge and Stevens are and should be focused on the long-term plan, they have a business to run. If they punt on Thomas now, even if the return is great - and its not clear that it would be for all the reasons covered in this forum - the casual fans who have been buying jerseys and tickets to the game aren't going to be showing up.

In short, let's dispense with the idea that Thomas is on the block this week, if only because there is simply no obvious trade that works for both the C's and a prospective trading partner.

They're obviously not trading IT this week. But if they get Fultz or Ball in the draft, I think they should explore what they could get for him, because as you note, he has a ton of value.

 

[ALiveH]

Title window concept is so overrated. That's the sort of excuse losers make to punt another year. Every year there are several teams that win 60+ with championship resumes that look unbeatable. Nothing is guaranteed. If we add a boogie / George / butler, I like our punchers chance to make it out of the east and be competitive in the finals. The oldest warriors star is 28 - they could easily sustain this level for another 4 years. We're a tough matchup for them so I'd enjoy the ride of going up against them as a 'dog.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Title window concept is so overrated. That's the sort of excuse losers make to punt another year. Every year there are several teams that win 60+ with championship resumes that look unbeatable. Nothing is guaranteed. If we add a boogie / George / butler, I like our punchers chance to make it out of the east and be competitive in the finals. The oldest warriors star is 28 - they could easily sustain this level for another 4 years. We're a tough matchup for them so I'd enjoy the ride of going up against them as a 'dog.

This. Boogie, in particular, creates havoc for the Warriors because their bigs are Pachulia, McGee and West all of whom Cousins can simply outmuscle. If the C's got a switch, which they would absolutely try to do given how they run their offense, even the Dubs good defending wings like Green and Iguodala would struggle with Cousins. Meanwhile, IT4 has the option to exploit that or take one of the bigs off the dribble.

On defense, the Celtics have already proven they can give the Warriors a tough time. That isn't to say that Golden State wouldn't beat a Celtics team with Cousins but I think Boston could definitely give them a series, especially with Stevens calling the plays.

 

[Red Averages]

Agreed, but what are they giving up for Cousins in that sceanrio? Both Nets #1s and Jaylen from the core team? Otherwise that defense that gives the Warriors fits (Bradley/Croweder/Smart) is at risk if they are traded. That said, I'd be all in on Cousins.

 

[smastroyin]

I saw a rumor with Boogie being traded for Vucevic and Fournier and picks...and Orlando turning it down.

I love rumor season because that really seems like a joke to me, but what's an equivalent Celtics deal, assuming the picks are Orlando's first in 2017 and a 2019 second or something like that. Or what's your three team scenario? Again, it's not going to happen, but I have coffee to finish, so in dreamland would something structured around:

C's get Boogie
Sacto gets Vucevic, Young, and one of the Nets picks
Orlando gets Celtics pick in 2018, Amir Johnson, Rozier

Before you go crazy on me with the idea of Johnson, Young, or Rozier having any value, I understand, but I think in general the idea is that Vucevic would be on the level of a C's first rounder and Zeller/Johnson type trade, with a little sweetener, but even at that price, the C's probably wouldn't be interested. Flipping him for Boogie though certainly has appeal.

Young isn't close to as good as Fournier right now, and I guess maybe Sacto would view Fournier as a central part of the trade..but he's 24 and a matador. I think Young has potential to be at least that in 3 years. As well, the difference between the Nets pick and what they would expect from Orlando + Boogie (IMO, a hot streak away from making the playoffs, but almost certainly dropping to 9th or 10th in the lotto). But probably Sacto needs to get more. Clips pick? I'm assuming they have little interest in guys like Bradley if they are dealing Boogie.

Again, this is based on the probably completely stupidly wrong rumor.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The trade options will be there every season for the next like five seasons given the level of young assets entering the system. This rebuild has always been about flexibility. Ainge almost traded for AI with assets he eventually used to get Kevin Garnett. Not saying Butler is AI by any means but once you cross that bridge, it's Finals or bust and no matter what you do this year you're going to be dogs to Lebron and huge dogs to the Dubs. Stay the course, build something to last, not something to shine brightly and burn out quickly.

Why would a team that has IT, Butler, Horford, Brown, Bradley, Smart, etc. with Zizic/Yabusele/Nets 2018, etc. burn out quickly? This team already is built to last but it clearly needs more elite talent. If you can get a Butler or George for the Nets 2017 plus lesser assets, I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

Yes, the Warriors are good but injuries and upsets happen. Who's to say a team like SA couldn't take out the Warriors? The Cavs are obviously a good team but this ain't the 1986 Celtics or 1996 Bulls. They could be had if the Celtics add one more big piece.

I'm perfectly fine with Ainge being patient. Worst case scenario is we add a top 4 pick to an already good team but I continue to dangle that Nets pick to see if it can land a big fish.

 

[Montana Fan]

Re: George. I heard Eddie Johnson talking about him on NBA Radio a few weeks ago. He thinks that Indiana management knows that PG longs to go out to LA, where he's from. He thinks that's reason enough to trade him if they can't lock him up long term. He also thinks that the C's are the perfect trade partner in that once PG got there and saw and bought into the long term plan, he'd want to be part of it. EJ thought the Celts are one team that could intercept George's quest for the west.

Re: Cousins. DeJesus makes the case of why Cousins on the Celts would make life difficult for GSW. Same goes for the Cavs. He's a big time match up problem for the top teams, in which case, big advantage for Stevens.

 

[the moops]

There are plenty of teams that can offer up an as good package for Paul George. If he does indeed want to go west, the Lakers can offer up a comparable package of picks + young players.

 

[BigSoxFan]

There are plenty of teams that can offer up an as good package for Paul George. If he does indeed want to go west, the Lakers can offer up a comparable package of picks + young players.

There's no guarantee that the Lakers will even have a pick this year. They're in the 3 spot right now. Someone currently 4+ leapfrogs them and that pick goes to Philly. They still clearly have enough assets to get George but the Celtics have an advantage with respect to the 2017 pick.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

My dream scenario is Cousins for Nets 2018, Mem/Clippers pick and Jaylen Brown. Then Kris Middleton for Avery Bradley+ Celtics 1st in 2018.

Cousins, Horford, Middleton, IT4 and one of Crowder/Smart. Good defense, great spacing, great ball movement, great length, bench depth virtually untouched and still have the Nets 17 pick. I think Butler and George are better players than Middleton (I think that gap is also going to close), but that Middleton is a much better fit than Butler and a better shooter than George.

These are dream scenarios. I can't see getting Cousins (or Butler or George) without this years Nets pick. Kevin Love seems like a good comp for those guys as far as trade value.

A front court of Cousins/Horford/Middleton would be a nightmare for teams to match up with and would leave IT4 to do whatever he wants. With Crowder instead of Smart, literally everyone is a legit 3 point threat. Defensively, you can replace IT4 with Smart and watch other teams give up in frustration.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Why would a team that has IT, Butler, Horford, Brown, Bradley, Smart, etc. with Zizic/Yabusele/Nets 2018, etc. burn out quickly? This team already is built to last but it clearly needs more elite talent. If you can get a Butler or George for the Nets 2017 plus lesser assets, I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

Yes, the Warriors are good but injuries and upsets happen. Who's to say a team like SA couldn't take out the Warriors? The Cavs are obviously a good team but this ain't the 1986 Celtics or 1996 Bulls. They could be had if the Celtics add one more big piece.

I'm perfectly fine with Ainge being patient. Worst case scenario is we add a top 4 pick to an already good team but I continue to dangle that Nets pick to see if it can land a big fish.

I agree about dangling one elite level pick, but teams will unfortunately demand more because we have more. I don't think you escape a trade like this without it being really painful on our end, much more painful than Jefferson + scraps and low picks for KG.

Edit: Honedtly I just don't think it's worth pushing this season. I like all the prospects we'll be in line to land in June. I want to at least have a shot at the objectively better Hayward + pick scenario. If George is really available I'm certainly interested in changing my tune a bit, but these strike me ultimately as off-season things.

 

[cardiacs]

The possibility of the Boston Celtics trading for Jimmy Butler will loom over the trade deadline. According to Adrian Wojnarowski, the Celtics and Chicago Bulls have held talks.

"These teams have engaged on the potential of this trade," said Wojnarowski. "They have not gotten far down the road on it. There still needs to be some alignment within the Bulls' organization, from ownership to management that they want to make the decision to enter a full rebuild.

"These are two teams that have exactly what the other wants. Boston has been hoarding assets for years, for a couple of seasons, trying to get in a position to get a star player. The fact that the Celtics have a swap with Brooklyn this year that could potentially be a top-3 pick and they have Brooklyn's pick outright next year. Either of those picks, I don't think Chicago can get both of them, but that is the beginning point of a deal for the Bulls for Jimmy Butler."

The Celtics and Bulls also discussed a Butler trade at last year's draft.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244965/Celtics-Bulls-Engage-In-Jimmy-Butler-Trade-Talks

 

[BigSoxFan]

I agree about dangling one elite level pick, but teams will unfortunately demand more because we have more. I don't think you escape a trade like this without it being really painful on our end, much more painful than Jefferson + scraps and low picks for KG.

Edit: Honedtly I just don't think it's worth pushing this season. I like all the prospects we'll be in line to land in June. I want to at least have a shot at the objectively better Hayward + pick scenario. If George is really available I'm certainly interested in changing my tune a bit, but these strike me ultimately as off-season things.

Sounds like we're not that far apart then. I guess the difference is that I'm not all that enamored with this 2017 draft outside of Fultz, which is kind of influencing my position. Clearly, I'd love to nab Hayward and keep the pick as well but I'm doubtful we'll be able to pull that off.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I don't see why Hayward would leave all that money on the table just to play with Brad Stevens. The Jazz are a young emerging team as well, albeit with less trading chips than the Celtics. Obviously, he would be the ideal non big man target because he wouldn't cost any assets to acquire. And not that it has any chance in happening, but Rudy Gobert would fit a lot of the Celtics problems.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

I don't see why Hayward would leave all that money on the table just to play with Brad Stevens.

http://heathoops.com/2016/12/gordon-haywards-summer-could-be-among-the-most-interesting-in-the-nba/
Author does a solid job laying out all the scenarios. The most likely one is that Hayward is only looking at a $2 million difference over a 7-year deal no matter where he signs.

 

[mcpickl]

I don't see why Hayward would leave all that money on the table just to play with Brad Stevens. The Jazz are a young emerging team as well, albeit with less trading chips than the Celtics. Obviously, he would be the ideal non big man target because he wouldn't cost any assets to acquire. And not that it has any chance in happening, but Rudy Gobert would fit a lot of the Celtics problems.

Unless he makes all NBA, Hayward won't be leaving that much money on the table. He'd be guaranteed one less year, but I don't think that makes as much as a difference as some do. He's still going to get paid for that extra year down the road.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

http://heathoops.com/2016/12/gordon-haywards-summer-could-be-among-the-most-interesting-in-the-nba/
Author does a solid job laying out all the scenarios. The most likely one is that Hayward is only looking at a $2 million difference over a 7-year deal no matter where he signs.

Well shit. If that's true, why are we even discussing a trade for George or Butler? Save any ammo for someone like Cousins.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

After reading that article, I'm not really any more convinced Hayward is leaving. If he doesn't qualify for super max this off season and decides to sign a max deal he's "only" sacrificing 1 year and $46 million to move to another team, but most of that can be made up with the extra year. However, if he just signs a contract with the Jazz that allows him to opt out in 3 years, why wouldn't he just do that? Then he is a supermax player. Or a contract with many opt outs so if he makes an All NBA team the next few years, he can also opt out.

I don't see why Hayward would take any other option but a contract with opt outs if the Jazz actually offer it.

 

[mcpickl]

After reading that article, I'm not really any more convinced Hayward is leaving. If he doesn't qualify for super max this off season and decides to sign a max deal he's "only" sacrificing 1 year and $46 million to move to another team, but most of that can be made up with the extra year. However, if he just signs a contract with the Jazz that allows him to opt out in 3 years, why wouldn't he just do that? Then he is a supermax player. Or a contract with many opt outs so if he makes an All NBA team the next few years, he can also opt out.

I don't see why Hayward would take any other option but a contract with opt outs if the Jazz actually offer it.

Because he could leave, sign a 4 year deal with an opt out after 3 with new team, and be the same supermax player and new team would then have Bird rights.

Very little difference.

You can only have one opt-out in NBA deals, just the final year of the contract.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Because he could leave, sign a 4 year deal with an opt out after 3 with new team, and be the same supermax player and new team would then have Bird rights.

Very little difference.

You can only have one opt-out in NBA deals, just the final year of the contract.

Wasn't aware he could still get supermax with a new team. Thought it was 10 years with one team. Thanks.

 

[mcpickl]

Wasn't aware he could still get supermax with a new team. Thought it was 10 years with one team. Thanks.

No worries. It is just ten years of total service time.

The All-NBA team does throw a wrench into the Celtics plan, if it is indeed their plan to sign Hayward this summer as I believe it is.

I think if the all-NBA voting took place today, the last spot on the team would come down to Hayward as the 6th forward, or Rudy Gobert as the 3rd center, with Anthony Davis being the swing guy who fills in the other spot at center/forward.

If Hayward gets the spot, he'd then have to leave a significant amount of money on the table to leave, assuming Utah is willing to pay above the 30% level to keep him.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

On my phone but Woj reporting via Twitter that Sacramento is talking about trading Boogie. Get it done Ben!

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

Sacramento has been engaging in trade talks on All-Star center DeMarcus Cousins in recent days, league sources tell @TheVertical.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

 

[RedOctober3829]

Woj bomb indeed