Official Patriots 2024 Draft Pick Watch Thread (#3)

ElcaballitoMVP

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I think they plan to sign at least 1 WR in FA, Juju and Pop will be here, probably want to bring back Bourne over Parker and draft at least 1 WR. If you can save $3m for your FA spending and get say a Hardman type trade (maybe better) it makes some sense. Trading in camp is harder than in FA, teams already planned out their roster and cap. and I don't think they want to bring him into the season over developing younger guys.

Would make a lot of sense to do something like send him to KC with a 2025 7th for a conditional 2025 pick than can move from a 6th to a 5th or even 4th based on performance. KC needs guys who can be trusted to catch the ball when it hits their hands, not fumble, and line up correctly, and they're tight on money so a cheap trade makes sense.
Makes a lot of sense to me. Taking KC further, they'll be looking to replace MVS, Hardman and Richie James (all free agents) and it's certainly possible Kadarius Toney has dropped his last ball from Patrick Mahomes.

They've got Rice, Watson and a guy who looks like a bust in Skyy Moore. Even if they drafted a WR early, they're still going to need more. At 1/$3M, Parker would give them a cheap veteran to add to the mix.

Couple other teams with limited cap room right now that could be options:
PIT- ($9.5M cap space) have Pickens/D. Johnson/A. Robinson but not much else
CLE- ($2.4M) have 3 free agents at the position and what they have is underwhelming outside of Cooper
BAL- ($16.4M) not as great of a fit, but OBJ and Duvernay are free agents, leaving Flowers/Bateman/Agholor/T. Wallace

Get it done Bill Wolf!
 

Deathofthebambino

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As long as he doesn't go to the Pats...

We will look back on this and be thankful the Patriots passed here...
I think Fields can have success in Atlanta that he'd never have here, but it certainly won't stop the 2025 armchair QB's for blaming the Pats for not getting him.

Fields with the weapons Altanta will have around him in Bijan, London and Pitts (they just released Jonnu), they have a bunch of cap space to add more talent, plus the draft (wouldn't be surprised to see them make a run at reuniting with Calvin Ridley, they are already getting a third round pick as compensation for him from Jacksonville, or a 2nd rounder if Jax signs him). And Altanta plays like 11 games this upcoming season indoors (or with their roof open if it's nice out), which means Fields legs will be even more electric if he's healthy. Bijan, London, Ridley, Pitts with Fields running around could be pretty dangerous, and I would suspect that Fields would put up pretty good numbers, and ultimately, it won't matter, they won't win shit.
 

DJnVa

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A few ways to read that--one is that there's NO chance they're trading back for a QB so we're talking 1% vs 0%. Another is they have a favorite they really like.
 

tims4wins

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If they either trade up or trade back, it's imperative that they are right. Whereas if they stand pat at 3 and just draft QB3, there will be far less pressure to be right.

It would take guts to make a move, and I'd give them credit for that.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I would just take that as the Patriots are clearly drafting a QB, and if they have one they like more than the other 2 and the price is reasonable, they'll move up to get him.

Which is kind of an obvious take.
 

DJnVa

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I would just take that as the Patriots are clearly drafting a QB, and if they have one they like more than the other 2 and the price is reasonable, they'll move up to get him.

Which is kind of an obvious take.
Yeah--it's an "interesting" quote, but likely meaningless.
 

67YAZ

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There’s been some grumbling about Williams’ dad, who is very involved in all Caleb’s business dealings and some anonymous execs portray him as a bit naive or making unreasonable asks. But he’s not trying to make himself a star like LaVar Ball was for a bit there.
 

Cellar-Door

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There’s been some grumbling about Williams’ dad, who is very involved in all Caleb’s business dealings and some anonymous execs portray him as a bit naive or making unreasonable asks. But he’s not trying to make himself a star like LaVar Ball was for a bit there.
yeah, it seems like pretty standard "hey maybe you should let this guy fall to me" stuff. I mean, there was a bunch of stuff last week about how he didn't hire an agent.... then Pelissaro came out and said... sure, but he has a team of lawyers who he has used for his NIL stuff, he has a publicist, etc. etc. It actually seems smart, he's saving money and getting no downside.

Generally outside of like gang connections or partying/drug stuff the personality stuff is always nonsense, but the Caleb stuff seems silly even by the standards of dumb stuff. I'd take him in an instant, honestly if I thought CHI would trade down for like chart or Chart +10%... I'd do it in an instant. Smart professional kid, ridiculous talent, he may bust but I'd take him over the other 2 easily.
 

leftfieldlegacy

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There’s been some grumbling about Williams’ dad, who is very involved in all Caleb’s business dealings and some anonymous execs portray him as a bit naive or making unreasonable asks. But he’s not trying to make himself a star like LaVar Ball was for a bit there.
He also refused to undergo any medical testing today which I have no issue with, but which will probably be a big talking point once TV coverage starts this afternoon.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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There’s been some grumbling about Williams’ dad, who is very involved in all Caleb’s business dealings and some anonymous execs portray him as a bit naive or making unreasonable asks. But he’s not trying to make himself a star like LaVar Ball was for a bit there.
It's behind the paywall, although there was an interesting piece by Kalyn Kahler in The Athletic a day or two ago:

The decision to not hire an agent was equally calculated. Carl challenged several potential representatives to find loopholes in the collective bargaining agreement between the league and player’s union, but the answers he received were unsatisfying. None could show him a way out of the four-year rookie contract term and fifth-year option for first-round picks. And when you considered the three potential years of franchise tagging, Caleb could be tied to a below-market deal for eight years.

Why hire an agent when there’s nothing that can be done to subvert the system? Carl was wary, and some agents were equally wary of him, thinking most of his ideas were unrealistic and some foolish.
The article is actually pretty balanced and largely paints dad (and Team Caleb) as patient and savvy, although stuff like drilling down to find loopholes in the CBA probably pushes the envelope more than the NFL power structure is used to.
 

BusRaker

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I wonder what it would cost if Washington thought Maye / Daniels was a toss up and the Pats strongly preferred one of the two. Our second round pick?
 

67YAZ

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yeah, it seems like pretty standard "hey maybe you should let this guy fall to me" stuff. I mean, there was a bunch of stuff last week about how he didn't hire an agent.... then Pelissaro came out and said... sure, but he has a team of lawyers who he has used for his NIL stuff, he has a publicist, etc. etc. It actually seems smart, he's saving money and getting no downside.

Generally outside of like gang connections or partying/drug stuff the personality stuff is always nonsense, but the Caleb stuff seems silly even by the standards of dumb stuff. I'd take him in an instant, honestly if I thought CHI would trade down for like chart or Chart +10%... I'd do it in an instant. Smart professional kid, ridiculous talent, he may bust but I'd take him over the other 2 easily.
I think the Bears folks are leaking things like “we’re going to take a real hard look into Williams’ personality and leadership” to communicate their seriousness to a deflated fan base and to keep some leverage in Fields trade negotiations.

But I think it’s a more or less a done deal they take Williams. I suppose some other team could step up with a Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams or bigger offer that would be too good to turn down. But locally there are lots of rumors Poles wants to restart the clock on the rookie QB contract cycle with an elite prospect.

A trade down from 9 is much more likely - ideally a drop into the 20s that also brings back a 2nd rounder plus a few other late round picks this or next year.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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It's behind the paywall, although there was an interesting piece by Kalyn Kahler in The Athletic a day or two ago:
yeah, it seems like pretty standard "hey maybe you should let this guy fall to me" stuff. I mean, there was a bunch of stuff last week about how he didn't hire an agent.... then Pelissaro came out and said... sure, but he has a team of lawyers who he has used for his NIL stuff, he has a publicist, etc. etc. It actually seems smart, he's saving money and getting no downside.
The "he has a team of lawyers" stuff came directly from Williams' mouth himself, so take it for what it's worth. I can't find the link currently, but it appears his father and 2 other people (lawyers? Fathers friends? I can't remember) have been running Caleb's business since he was a teenager. You dont need an agent out the gate, but the NFL is a different beast.

Trying to find loopholes in the rookie contract scale. Making it known that he wants part ownership in any team that drafts him. Refusing to undergo medical testing at the combine. Refusing to throw at the combine. He initially put out a shortlist of teams he wanted to play for. And none of that touches on some of the questionable shit that Caleb himself has done.

Williams is the best QB prospect in the draft, and he probably has a long and storied career. But I'm keeping an eye on papa Williams.
 

The Social Chair

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He also refused to undergo any medical testing today which I have no issue with, but which will probably be a big talking point once TV coverage starts this afternoon.
He decided to not do medical testing with all 32 teams. He's only going to test with the team doctors that have a reasonable chance at drafting him. He's not wrong to think it's a waste of time to have 32 team doctors inspect him.
 

Cellar-Door

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The "he has a team of lawyers" stuff came directly from Williams' mouth himself, so take it for what it's worth. I can't find the link currently, but it appears his father and 2 other people (lawyers? Fathers friends? I can't remember) have been running Caleb's business since he was a teenager. You dont need an agent out the gate, but the NFL is a different beast.

Trying to find loopholes in the rookie contract scale. Making it known that he wants part ownership in any team that drafts him. Refusing to undergo medical testing at the combine. Refusing to throw at the combine. He initially put out a shortlist of teams he wanted to play for. And none of that touches on some of the questionable shit that Caleb himself has done.

Williams is the best QB prospect in the draft, and he probably has a long and storied career. But I'm keeping an eye on papa Williams.
I mean... the ownership stuff is unsourced nonsense that he denied, the re-work of it is his dad was talking with potential agents and asked what the loopholes were (which amusingly... it was a loophole. Aaron Rodgers broached it too before they closed it) which if true shows his dad is smart. What is the agent bringing to the table if not ways to bring value through CBA knowledge? Of course it makes a better story if you claim his Dad was making demands of teams, not exploring every avenue under the CBA to make money.

The rest is what every QB does, no Caleb level prospect has thrown at the combine in years.

This is a nice article:
https://theathletic.com/5301341/2024/02/28/caleb-williams-quarterback-nfl-draft-ownership/

I have zero worries about him off-field. He's acting like a QB honestly, more like how NBA players act, he knows he's valuable and sees no reason to pretend otherwise... partly because he probably made more in NIL money in college than he will on his rookie deal. No reason to do medicals or workouts for teams who have no chance at drafting you, same as the NBA where guys only work out for and do medicals for teams that can draft them (or they want the situation enough to encourage a tradeup).

I know he does indeed have lawyers.... because he had them negotiate his endorsement deals of which he has tons, he has a publicist because that's who they direct everyone to.

All the stories are a combination of the normal attempts to muddy things and people mad that a player is not acting appropriately like a servant. He's been way less of a problem than say.... Eli Manning and his meddling former player father.
 

The Social Chair

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Trying to find loopholes in the rookie contract scale. Making it known that he wants part ownership in any team that drafts him. Refusing to undergo medical testing at the combine. Refusing to throw at the combine. He initially put out a shortlist of teams he wanted to play for. And none of that touches on some of the questionable shit that Caleb himself has done.
Making it known that he wants part ownership in any team that drafts him. This was fake.

Refusing to undergo medical testing at the combine. Again. This isn't true. HE refused to let all 32 teams do testing on him.

Refusing to throw at the combine. Not uncommon. Daniels also isn't throwing.


He initially put out a shortlist of teams he wanted to play for. This seems smart. Bad organizations can kill your career as a QB



And none of that touches on some of the questionable shit that Caleb himself has done. What questionable shit has he done? Cried? Missed a press conference after a loss?

The dad stuff is so over blown. His dad never once said anything to any of the coaches at USC. He just managed his NIL.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Making it known that he wants part ownership in any team that drafts him. This was fake.
It took him a very long time to publicly deny this, and the "checking for loopholes" story most likely ties directly to this. What makes you so confident it's fake?

Refusing to undergo medical testing at the combine.
Again. This isn't true. HE refused to let all 32 teams do testing on him.
Agents make this decision for kids all the time. His dad seems to he acting as his agent.

Refusing to throw at the combine.
Not uncommon. Daniels also isn't throwing.
Fair.

He initially put out a shortlist of teams he wanted to play for. This seems smart. Bad organizations can kill your career as a QB
It seems smart? He listed the Cowboys, Raiders, Vikings, Giants, or 49ers. Gee, no shit someone wants to be drafted by the Cowboys and 49ers. Why aren't all players listing the teams they want to go to?

And none of that touches on some of the questionable shit that Caleb himself has done.
What questionable shit has he done? Cried? Missed a press conference after a loss?
Painting expletives on his fingernails during games. Not getting up from the bench to shake hands - didn't head to the locker room, simply pouted on the bench - after the Utah loss. His weird response about everyone wanting to be in his shoes when asked about a Notre Dame fan running onto the field.

I mean, look. If the Pats had the #1 pick, I'd draft him. But we don't need to bend over backwards to see some smoke floating into the sky. He's the leader of men in an NFL locker room, and hes crying after games, wearing dresses on the cover of magazines, pouting after losses. If he were to do those things after a few years of NFL success? Sure, why not? Namath wore panty hose, TO had his QBs back...fine. but he hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL yet. There feels like a lot of bravado and entitlement from a kid who's team finished in the top 10 once and just finished an 8-5 season.
 

ShaneTrot

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I understand that the top 3 guys have a lot to lose and they will all be throwing at their pro days but I would think it would be ballsy to throw at the combine. Especially if you look really good next to a J J McCarthy or Bo Nix.
 

Cellar-Door

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It took him a very long time to publicly deny this, and the "checking for loopholes" story most likely ties directly to this. What makes you so confident it's fake?



Agents make this decision for kids all the time. His dad seems to he acting as his agent.



Painting expletives on his fingernails during games. Not getting up from the bench to shake hands - didn't head to the locker room, simply pouted on the bench - after the Utah loss. His weird response about everyone wanting to be in his shoes when asked about a Notre Dame fan running onto the field.

I mean, look. If the Pats had the #1 pick, I'd draft him. But we don't need to bend over backwards to see some smoke floating into the sky. He's the leader of men in an NFL locker room, and hes crying after games, wearing dresses on the cover of magazines, pouting after losses. If he were to do those things after a few years of NFL success? Sure, why not? Namath wore panty hose, TO had his QBs back...fine. but he hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL yet. There feels like a lot of bravado and entitlement from a kid who's team finished in the top 10 once and just finished an 8-5 season.
There is no indication his Dad is acting as his agent at all, no indication his Dad has had any meetings or even calls with teams, his Dad handles some of his business concerns and was involved in the vetting process when deciding on an agent, but he isn't acting as his rep as far as anyone has indicated.

As to the rest.... I mean, if we're getting to dumb stuff like that you know he's an elite prospect because that's all silly shit.

Though I'll be honest. The entitlement line tells me most of what I need to know.... you are just desperately searching for reasons to bash him because you don't like him. Nobody is saying that about Marvin Harrison Jr who has been far more "entitled", he isn't doing interviews, he isn't at the combine at all. The idea that he should pretend to not know he's the best QB prospect in years because he was on a team of garbage at USC is silly. Or the idea that he can't be an NFL QB because he doesn't conform to your standards is silly. All of his teammates seem to love him, he got them NIL deals he turned down, he flew his O-line to NYC for his Heisman win, guys like Brendan Rice gush about him in interviews...... the people who see the nail painting or the showing emotion as red flags are just totally out of touch with young people I think.
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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Heavens to Betsy! Oh no! Rome is falling!
Never a doubt that someone was going to take home the award. Congrats! This season it goes to "sidewalkoaf".

Come on up and give your acceptance speech! It's your free 5 minutes to whiteknight to all of the people online you think youre morally superior to. Don't waste the chance while you have it!
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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There is no indication his Dad is acting as his agent at all, no indication his Dad has had any meetings or even calls with teams, his Dad handles some of his business concerns and was involved in the vetting process when deciding on an agent, but he isn't acting as his rep as far as anyone has indicated.

As to the rest.... I mean, if we're getting to dumb stuff like that you know he's an elite prospect because that's all silly shit.

Though I'll be honest. The entitlement line tells me most of what I need to know.... you are just desperately searching for reasons to bash him because you don't like him. Nobody is saying that about Marvin Harrison Jr who has been far more "entitled", he isn't doing interviews, he isn't at the combine at all. The idea that he should pretend to not know he's the best QB prospect in years because he was on a team of garbage at USC is silly. Or the idea that he can't be an NFL QB because he doesn't conform to your standards is silly. All of his teammates seem to love him, he got them NIL deals he turned down, he flew his O-line to NYC for his Heisman win, guys like Brendan Rice gush about him in interviews...... the people who see the nail painting or the showing emotion as red flags are just totally out of touch with young people I think.
This could be fair. Truthfully, the only "persona" of his I know is what is presented in the media. I don't follow USC or him all that closely. Its interesting that I could rattle off all my talking points easily, but haven't heard about any of yours. Not sure if that says more about me or the media spin. Probably both.
 

sidewalkoaf

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Never a doubt that someone was going to take home the award. Congrats! This season it goes to "sidewalkoaf".

Come on up and give your acceptance speech! It's your free 5 minutes to whiteknight to all of the people online you think youre morally superior to. Don't waste the chance while you have it!
I mean, you’re right. We’re just really lucky to have you patrolling that wall. Good work!
 

SoxinSeattle

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Never a doubt that someone was going to take home the award. Congrats! This season it goes to "sidewalkoaf".

Come on up and give your acceptance speech! It's your free 5 minutes to whiteknight to all of the people online you think youre morally superior to. Don't waste the chance while you have it!
Throwing around white knight accusations every time you say outdated stupid shit about others doesn't make it ok. It's boring. There may be several things to learn about Caleb as a person but some fashion shoot isn't one of them.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Throwing around white knight accusations every time you say outdated stupid shit about others doesn't make it ok. It's boring. There may be several things to learn about Caleb as a person but some fashion shoot isn't one of them.
Wait, you think these are MY red flags? That these aren't talking points being discussed elsewhere?

Ok. You're right. Nobody's mentioned it except for old white people.
 

Beomoose

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I wonder what it would cost if Washington thought Maye / Daniels was a toss up and the Pats strongly preferred one of the two. Our second round pick?
I may be wrong but I think history has shown they'd want our 2025 1st rounder.
If we wanted to go from 3 to 2, what would the premium be to go all the way to 1? I know it would take Ryan Poles deciding he was going to Danny Ainge this thing to even be on the radar, but if we're talking moving up...
 

nighthob

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I’d be fine with them sending out three #1s for Caleb Williams over the leavings at #3. I just don’t see top ten QB when I look at the other two.
 

Pxer

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I’d be fine with them sending out three #1s for Caleb Williams over the leavings at #3. I just don’t see top ten QB when I look at the other two.
Make it so. That's probably about what it would take. This is what CAR gave up for the #1 last year:

  • Pick No. 9 in the 2023 NFL Draft
  • Pick No. 61 in the 2023 NFL Draft
  • A 2024 first-round pick
  • A 2025 second-round pick
  • D.J. Moore on a three-year deal worth $52.3 million

Williams is a better prospect than anyone was viewed in that class.
 

Ed Hillel

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Make it so. That's probably about what it would take. This is what CAR gave up for the #1 last year:

  • Pick No. 9 in the 2023 NFL Draft
  • Pick No. 61 in the 2023 NFL Draft
  • A 2024 first-round pick
  • A 2025 second-round pick
  • D.J. Moore on a three-year deal worth $52.3 million

Williams is a better prospect than anyone was viewed in that class.
Good chance that ends up a Top 3 worst trade ever, of course…
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I would hate trading three 1's to move up two spots. I'm just not convinced anybody really knows who will turn out to be the best out of the top grouping of QBs each year.
 

Dogman

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Never a doubt that someone was going to take home the award. Congrats! This season it goes to "sidewalkoaf".

Come on up and give your acceptance speech! It's your free 5 minutes to whiteknight to all of the people online you think youre morally superior to. Don't waste the chance while you have it!

I have no idea what you are doing but please don't do this.

Thanks.
 

ManicCompression

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A few posters have said top QBs don't throw at the combine. It's anecdotal, but CJ Stroud threw last year and looked... awesome. I think it says something about his character that he had everything to lose (going into the combine, throwing the football was what differentiated him from Bryce Young) and he did it anyway because he wanted to show he was the best.

Bryce Young didn't throw for the same reasons we heard this week re: Williams, Maye, and Daniels. "Doesn't matter," was the narrative. "This whole pre-draft process is silly. We have tape, why do we need to see them throw to uncovered receivers?"

There's logic, which tells these top guys, "Everyone thinks I'm going to be drafted at 1 or 2 or 3, and I don't know these receivers at the combine, so I won't throw because I can only go down from here." I get it, and it makes sense from that POV.

But I find it says something about the competitiveness of these top QBs that they are not anxious to show how they're better than their counterparts. I'm not talking about the 40 or the broad jump or some intelligence test that doesn't translate to their job on the field. I'm talking about throwing the football in a slightly uncomfortable, slightly pressured situation.

IDK, I'll prob get made fun of for this opinion, but it's a yellow flag for me. If you're a prospect who feels the need to be shrink-wrapped leading up to the draft, you are doing a great job of securing a first paycheck, but I don't think that's the mentality you should have if you're going to be an all-pro QB. I wish one of Daniels, Maye or Williams took the harder road here this week.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I'd be happy with Daniels or Maye, though Maye is growing on me as he didn't have much help at UNC compared to the weapons/OL Daniels and Penix played with.
If Chad Ryland didn't pull a miracle field goal out of his ass, the Pats could have had either one they preferred. I'm happy to be at 3, not in the 7-10 range where it starts to drop off in skill positions, but man that one FG really may screw them.
 

Ferm Sheller

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If Chad Ryland didn't pull a miracle field goal out of his ass, the Pats could have had either one they preferred. I'm happy to be at 3, not in the 7-10 range where it starts to drop off in skill positions, but man that one FG really may screw them.
I was trying to figure out whether the Pats would have had the number one pick if they had lost both the Denver and Pittsburgh games. Some people here were really pulling for them to win those games -- I'm wondering whether the same people are still basking in the glow of victory after having beaten two mediocre teams that had no real shot of doing anything but just missing the playoffs or getting knocked out of the playoffs early.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I was trying to figure out whether the Pats would have had the number one pick if they had lost both the Denver and Pittsburgh games. Some people here were really pulling for them to win those games -- I'm wondering whether the same people are still basking in the glow of victory after having beaten two mediocre teams that had no real shot of doing anything but just missing the playoffs or getting knocked out of the playoffs early.
IDK man it always feels damn good to beat Denver and Pittsburg.
 

Ferm Sheller

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IDK man it always feels damn good to beat Denver and Pittsburg.
It might work out in their favor. Chicago and Washington could take the two "wrong" QBs (in time and in hindsight), forcing the Pats to take the "right" guy, but I didn't feel particularly good about winning those games at the time and I certainly don't now (not that I'm really thinking about them).

How often do you reflect on those games?
 

snowmanny

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I was trying to figure out whether the Pats would have had the number one pick if they had lost both the Denver and Pittsburgh games. Some people here were really pulling for them to win those games -- I'm wondering whether the same people are still basking in the glow of victory after having beaten two mediocre teams that had no real shot of doing anything but just missing the playoffs or getting knocked out of the playoffs early.
Eh. I knew at the time that while I was rooting for the win, I would regret it in April if they won, and quite likely would regret it the next day. I know that’s illogical, Spock, but that’s how it goes.

Edit - the Jets game was really hard. I was rooting for the win and the loss at the same time.
 

Curt S Loew

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If Chad Ryland didn't pull a miracle field goal out of his ass, the Pats could have had either one they preferred. I'm happy to be at 3, not in the 7-10 range where it starts to drop off in skill positions, but man that one FG really may screw them.
Thankfully he sucked enough or we wouldn't have a shot at either of them.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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I was trying to figure out whether the Pats would have had the number one pick if they had lost both the Denver and Pittsburgh games. Some people here were really pulling for them to win those games -- I'm wondering whether the same people are still basking in the glow of victory after having beaten two mediocre teams that had no real shot of doing anything but just missing the playoffs or getting knocked out of the playoffs early.
I am.

Anyone who thinks there's (a) an obvious, undebatable difference in the odds of success between Daniels and Maye, and (b) knows which is which is just talking out their ass.