Is it only first round picks for whom "more than a handful of games" is needed to assess their future?
Yet Zappe still gets the starts?
Pats select Western Kentucky QB Bailey Zappe at 137
- Thread starter Eddie Jurak
- Start date
Bringing back Zappe next year makes complete sense. Even having him start a few games until whoever they draft is ready to go. About a wash with bringing in some short term, still kind of expensive , well onto the back 9 veteran to keep the seat warm. But in no universe is he the long term future for this team. Career back up is his absolute ceiling. He’s basically a poor man’s Brian Hoyer.
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They need to decide on Mac’s 5th year this offseason so yes he should get more run than a 3rd rounder in his second year.
Mac Jones will never play another meaningful snap for the Patriots, that 5th year option is DOA.
The issue is that this past season is when they needed to have enough tape on Mac to make an informed decision. The team, or at least Bill, now knows enough that there is no chance of Mac's 5th year option being exercised. The one risk is if the Krafts bring in an incompetent GM; given it's the NFL, and NFL owners tend to NFL owner, the risk is non-zero.
I keep hearing variations on the comment in bold. But you can't ignore the timing of that event. It took place in late August, as part of the final roster cut-down. By that point, every team in the NFL had their QB roster in place, and it involved guys who had been through training camp and knew the playbook. Cutting your own backup in order to sign somebody else's - at a time when teams are already looking at difficult roster choices, well that's not exactly firm proof of his perceived value.
Also worth noting that the entire league had all of the pre-season to make a determination on Joe Flacco, and missed.
Sure, but the point is, no team tried to bring in Zappe for their practice squad. Not backup QB, but practice squad/3rd QB. A practice squad QB has time to learn the playbook.
The Flacco comparison is not apt either. The Browns only brought him in after their first 3 QBs got hurt/were terrible, but are still contending and needing someone with experience and has shown they can play well in this league. That is not Zappe in any way, shape, or form.
To be fair to KFP, the Zappe starting in 2024 question was asked after the Pitt game and a few have asked the same question after the Denver game. I think most of us realize Zappe's ceiling is backup NFL QB and nothing more. Camp competition for the backup job? Sure.
Also to be fair, some have questioned whether the team should consider bringing in Russell Wilson. Regardless if Denver staples Wilson to any trade, he is not remotely worth it given his play, contract (even if Denver pays part of it), his decline. There are 4-5 other experienced and average QB I'd prefer to bring in to play alongside whomever the Patriots draft at QB in the first round. However, Zappe's salary for 2024 goes a long way toward using cap resources on other needs for the offense. Paying $8M for a Brissett may not be the best use of cap space especially if the rookie QB outplays him in camp.
Also to be fair, some have questioned whether the team should consider bringing in Russell Wilson. Regardless if Denver staples Wilson to any trade, he is not remotely worth it given his play, contract (even if Denver pays part of it), his decline. There are 4-5 other experienced and average QB I'd prefer to bring in to play alongside whomever the Patriots draft at QB in the first round. However, Zappe's salary for 2024 goes a long way toward using cap resources on other needs for the offense. Paying $8M for a Brissett may not be the best use of cap space especially if the rookie QB outplays him in camp.
Not true. At least according to Zappe and his agent, he had other offers for practice squad but chose to stay with New England.
edit: Pelissero reported 7 teams interested.
View: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1696925800019218916
I think the broader point is just how much uncertainty there is about who will be able to succeed at a high level as an NFL QB. Bailey Zappe is 99% certain to amount to nothing, but that is also true of the vast majority of drafted QBs. And the most striking thing is how many (not all) of the top draft picks fail, while a good number of all-time great QBs have arrived as much lower unheralded picks.
Despite the best efforts of many people over many years, we still just don't know. If there was an algorithm that accurately predicted NFL QB success, it would be more valuable than the formula for Coca-Cola.
Despite the best efforts of many people over many years, we still just don't know. If there was an algorithm that accurately predicted NFL QB success, it would be more valuable than the formula for Coca-Cola.
Someone has to start game 1 next year. I'm not lobbying for him (though it might appear like it), it just might come down to a process of elimination which is the area of suckitude we find ourselves in. Wait, am I hedging?
To the credit of this site there are a couple of folks that I would prefer as a GM over say Mayhew (Washington), Paton (Denver) or Fitterer (Carolina). Maybe it's just that they cuss more though
Stidham is technically a starter now! We can also add Cassell and Mallet to this list, it is actually quite impressive.
Well if Zappe kicks ass the next two weeks (R.I.P. draft pick, and unlikely against the Jets but likely against the injury-riddled Bills) he will be helping himself in two ways. It will also be a sell high situation for GM BB (by high I mean possible BU QB swap or low draft pick).
If Zappe is mediocre he goes to camp with Mac and the new guy I see him splitting camp snaps with new guy.
If he sucks, we can tank him very much. Well this is definitely more fun than watching the de-mac-le that was
The 31 other team narrative is trash. People really need to stop using it as a data point. It’s an ill informed assumption and nothing more.
Agents say things like all the time for their clients. I doubt there was any interest even with Pelissero running with an agent's quote.
The Patriots will draft a QB. Whether that is in the first round or second round (honestly can't imagine it would be as late as the third). So, we can stop with the straw man argument of the Patriots not getting a developmental quarterback.
Also, given how inexpensive Zappe is, unless he completely falls apart the next two weeks, it would seem quite unlikely that he is cut.
So, the question really is - do the Patriots also spend cap space on a veteran QB, and if so, how much?
Also, given how inexpensive Zappe is, unless he completely falls apart the next two weeks, it would seem quite unlikely that he is cut.
So, the question really is - do the Patriots also spend cap space on a veteran QB, and if so, how much?
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe Pelissero confirmed it with at just a team or two. Maybe not.
We don't have info to the contrary so imo it is a little disingenuous to say with any certainty that no other team was interested in Zappe for their practice squad
The one thing we can say about Zappe is he looks infinitely better than Mac. He moves in the pocket, sets his feet, and throws with more velocity. Plus he won a game in Denver without Henry, Stevenson, and JuJu. Although not having JuJu might be seen as a positive.
I just wonder if the other players just....play harder for Zappe as well. I'm thinking of Parker hauling in a difficult catch, after dropping a similar one from Mac earlier this year.
I suppose that's nonsense, but I do think there is something to the idea of teammates having more faith in Zappe than Mac to win games.
New England is destined to beat the Jests. And they’ll probably beat the Bills as well. People dreaming about a franchise QB coming to save New England need to give up the dream. They need to find the next Jalen Hurts or Brock Purdy.
the chances they find the next Wilson, Prescott, Purdy or Cousins are really slim. There’s probably a better chance of Zappe becoming the next Purdy than hitting on a mid/late round QB.
maybe the top of the 2nd round with a guy like Penix or a trade up into the back of the 1st round if McCarthy slides. Those are probably your best bets for the next Hurts
That’s my point, they aren’t going to get the chance to draft Williams, emptying their draft cache to get Maye or Daniels increases the chances that those guys bust (I just don’t see them succeeding without a lot of help). So now they’re going to have to look to find a competent QB outside the top of the draft.
Your overall point stands, but these guys are going to rise and fall after the season--Daniels is currently mocked around 10, but could jump ahead of Maye with postseason workouts, etc. We definitely should NOT empty our draft cache for someone as it stands now, but drafting from 4-6 it's entirely possible 1 of these guys is sitting there.
Most recent mocked have Daniels at 4. I expect the top 3 QBs and to go top 5 with trade ups
Haven't seen that one, but is it a mock with teams or just player rankings? Because if it shows NE at 4 it makes sense that a QB goes.
As always, we'll know more in about 60 hours.
not sure I’d agree about Maye (who has mediocre help at college) or Daniels (who has stacked WR but terrible OL play) but even if that’s the case, finding a competent QB in the 3rd or 4th tier of guys is a long shot compounded by the inherent risk of finding draft help for those guys to help those long shots succeed. You could make the argument that any WR help the Pats find early is going to have a big chance of flopping if the QB/OL play is awful
I would still posit that a first round QB is much more likely to succeed with mediocre help than a mid/late round type with good help. And I think mediocre help should be “easy” enough to find. It’s a lot more feasible to throw money at the tackle and WR issue than hope that whatever mid round QB happens to fall to you succeeds
I guess a better way to frame it would be, most draft picks fail. The success rate outside the first round is small for finding plus players at any position, even more so at QB because a mediocre QB is a much bigger deficiency than mediocre WR. So in any situation where the Pats offense improves, it hinges on that first round pick and additions of veterans in trade/free agency. It’s a lot less risky (albeit still risky) to be aggressive and trade a bunch of picks to get a premium QB than hope you hit on a mid round QB along with a early round tackle, early round WR etc
No. He's been great. Deserves a shot to start next year. When he gets a chance to take starter reps, he's lights out.
He may very well start next year, regardless of who they draft. Obviously if the Pats can draft one of the top 3 QBs, they have to do it. But if they win next week and wind up with the 7 pick, well, now it's dicey.
Actually, no. But it wouldn't be good. I like the guts he showed today to overcome the horrid start.
If they land a QB of the future in the draft, I could see him being our Scott Secules for a while. And he might be worth developing as a backup.
Holy shit, this is my favorite post of 2023 with only hours to go.
I don’t think a rookie QB is going to move the needle much for us next season. It will be a heck of a lot more entertaining (though I’d say todays game didn’t lack for entertainment value) but let’s prepare ourselves that next year is still a developmental year.
While I don't expect them to be SB contenders next season, if you look at the QBs taken in the early first round last year - Stroud, Young, Richardson - I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats were competing for a playoff spot with any of those 3 this season (minus Richardsons health, obviously). At minimum, 2 of the 3 would have them in a pretty decent spot.
My understanding is that the 3 guys this year are better prospects than the 3 from last season. Regardless, it may be a developmental year, but it can still be a competitive one.
Sure, but it could also be a top 35 pick at WR as well. And lots of FA dollars.
If we're watching Drake Maye throw lasers to Demario Douglas, Emeka Egbuka, and Kendrick Bourne next season, that's a lot more fun than this. Even if we finish 6-11 or something.