Revis the Patriot: Countdown to March 10th

[DJnVa]

The numbers say whatever they say, and Revis didn't hold opposing WRs with 0 catches all season. But what he does is allow you to simply not worry about his guy. It frees up a safety who might have to stay over the top on someone and move him into run support or something else.
 
I feel pretty secure in thinking he'll be back. I think he's found his football nirvana.

 

[Sportsbstn]

Simply put, if he is all about making every dollar he can, then he will get it but likely never make the Super Bowl again.   If he wants to make a lot of money (but not top dollar), the Patriots are as good of a bet as any in the AFC to make it to the Superbowl again next year.   Your move Revis 

 

[dbn]

Simply put, if he is all about making every dollar he can, then he will get it but likely never make the Super Bowl again.   If he wants to make a lot of money (but not top dollar), the Patriots are as good of a bet as any in the AFC to make it to the Superbowl again next year.   Your move Revis 

 
I don't agree with this. I think that if he chases the most $, it less likely he will ever make the Super Bowl again. Isn't he more valuable to a contending team than to a rebuilding one?

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

Strictly speaking, the odds of him returning to the SB are against him no matter who he signs with, and even if he's not a student of football history, he got a good first-hand lesson on Sunday night about the razor-thin (and often uncontrollable) margin between Ring/No Ring.  I don't know that he'll chase the top dollar and I'd love to see him back, but honestly, how many millions can he reasonably be expected to leave on the table knowing all that factors into repeating?

 

[bankshot1]

If he wants to play in big games, and be in a position to win rings, the last $ is probably not the only motivating factor. He can now compare experiences with the Jets, Bucs and Pats, weigh the pros and cons, and if he decides to go to Buffalo or J-ville...
 
I hope they restructure him on a deal everyone is good with.

 

[dbn]

Bottom line is that Revis delivered exactly what we hoped he'd do. If he wants to sign with another team for more money, I'll be disappointed but I won't hold it against him. He has earned the right to do whatever he thinks is best for him/his family without criticism.

 
QFT. It was a pleasure to not watch him this year - other than when the cameras focused on him on the sidelines when the O was on the field.

 

[Corsi]

No one has been more wrong about Revis since we acquired him than Jason Cole.

 

[Sportsbstn]

 
I don't agree with this. I think that if he chases the most $, it less likely he will ever make the Super Bowl again. Isn't he more valuable to a contending team than to a rebuilding one?

 
He is more valuable, but most of the teams with the largest cap space to pay him top dollar are not contending teams.   Here is the list:
 
Browns, Jags, Jets, Raiders, Colts, Tampa Bay, Titans

 

[dbn]

 
He is more valuable, but most of the teams with the largest cap space to pay him top dollar are not contending teams.   Here is the list:
 
Browns, Jags, Jets, Raiders, Colts, Tampa Bay, Titans

 
I started to add something about the teams with most cap space to my post, but wasn't sure I trusted the cap-space sources I googled so I didn't. This one has Bengals, Colts, Broncos, Chargers in top-10 most space, Packers and Seahawks at 11 and 13. Admittedly, though, after the top ~half dozen or so, the space decreases rapidly. 

 

[njnesportsfan]

 
He is more valuable, but most of the teams with the largest cap space to pay him top dollar are not contending teams.   Here is the list:
 
Browns, Jags, Jets, Raiders, Colts, Tampa Bay, Titans

What about the Giants? I sense Revis wants to be a star on one of the biggest stages, so small market teams (including the Bills) are out. So from that perspective, Cowboys, Giants, NEP are the best fit. 49ers are out since they are a mess. To him, it will be about money, HOF, endorsements and star power. Not many teams can give him all of those. 

 

[j44thor]

 
I started to add something about the teams with most cap space to my post, but wasn't sure I trusted the cap-space sources I googled so I didn't. This one has Bengals, Colts, Broncos, Chargers in top-10 most space, Packers and Seahawks at 11 and 13. Admittedly, though, after the top ~half dozen or so, the space decreases rapidly. 

What does Luck becoming the highest paid player in the nfl do to the Colts cap space? Packers almost never spend in fa, using that money to retain their own. Seahawks have Wilson and to a lesser extent lynch to take care of.

Really hard to say who has what for space until you factor in key re-signs.

 

[dynomite]

What about the Giants? I sense Revis wants to be a star on one of the biggest stages, so small market teams (including the Bills) are out. So from that perspective, Cowboys, Giants, NEP are the best fit. 49ers are out since they are a mess. To him, it will be about money, HOF, endorsements and star power. Not many teams can give him all of those.

Assuming this is true (I'm not sure it is -- he seemed content to go Tampa Bay a year and a half ago, right?), I think there's a pretty good chance he resigns here.

If the Hall of Fame and "star power" are his ambition: 1) He's probably already got both, and 2) winning another Super Bowl as part of one of the greatest dynasties in NFL history is the best possible way to cement his legacy, right?

Returning to the Patriots offers:
- his best chance to win another Super Bowl, probably
- stability in his life & career instead of going to his 4th organization in 4 years
- an organization as high profile and high functioning as they come

 

[Sportsbstn]

 
I started to add something about the teams with most cap space to my post, but wasn't sure I trusted the cap-space sources I googled so I didn't. This one has Bengals, Colts, Broncos, Chargers in top-10 most space, Packers and Seahawks at 11 and 13. Admittedly, though, after the top ~half dozen or so, the space decreases rapidly. 

 
Yep thats why I used the top 6 or so, because the space goes down rapidly.   Anything can happen, players can restructure, but the teams with a ton of cash are almost all terrible teams except for the Colts. 

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Colts are the most intriguing landing spot... played in the AFCCG, have a good QB, tons of cap space. Not a big stage, but still.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

And would be a slight coaching and QB downgrade, not to mention Front 7.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Revis will get a big offer from the Pats. Maybe not the biggest he might have received if he had made it to FA, but big enough for him to stay. Belichick will pay for elite and Revis is the definition of elite. I'd be shocked if he goes.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Colts are the most intriguing landing spot... played in the AFCCG, have a good QB, tons of cap space. Not a big stage, but still.

Can he tackle Legarrette Blount?

 

[Shelterdog]

Colts are the most intriguing landing spot... played in the AFCCG, have a good QB, tons of cap space. Not a big stage, but still.

 
The Colts are going from a ton of cap space to not a lot in a hurry- Fleener, Hilton and Allen (among others) are in contract years.  

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
The Colts are going from a ton of cap space to not a lot in a hurry- Fleener, Hilton and Allen (among others) are in contract years.  

They also have a pretty good pair of corners already and a shitty front seven. If they want to make a huge splash in free agency , Suh makes a lot more sense than Revis.

 

[wiffleballhero]

Especially now, this is fun to watch:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi_ly7HTSzk
 
The Pats fan plays it well.
 
Sherman is pretty funny and seem pretty cool throughout. 

 

[theapportioner]

They also have a pretty good pair of corners already and a shitty front seven. If they want to make a huge splash in free agency , Suh makes a lot more sense than Revis.

 
Plus it'd be fitting for the Colts to build upon their league leading position of being fined by the NFL.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12288669/new-england-patriots-plan-work-darrelle-revis-contract-extension-jonathan-kraft-says
 

"Hopefully both sides want to make a deal and we'll be able to get one done," Kraft said on sports radio WEEI's "Dennis & Callahan" program with Kirk Minihane.
 
"He's been everything and more since he's been here," he said. "Patriots fans knew what he was like on the field, but didn't know what he was like off it. Having worn green all those years and the blind emotion we all have toward the Jets, you have one perception of the man. And the man is very different than that. He's a great guy and he works hard. There is no over-ego to him and he's a great teammate. He's been a real pleasure to have him as part of the organization."

Road to win Super Bowl 50 starts with this. 

 

[TheoShmeo]

 
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12288669/new-england-patriots-plan-work-darrelle-revis-contract-extension-jonathan-kraft-says
 
 
Road to win Super Bowl 50 starts with this. 
 

That's not an exaggeration.  This is the biggest single issue facing the Pats.
 
I sat next to Mike Westhoff -- the former Jets special team coach who has been a total jackass regarding DeflateGate -- on a flight when Ty Law was with the Jets.  Law was by then not the player he was in his prime.  I asked Westhoff what having Law on the team was like.  He said that Law took away half the field and made preparing defensive game plans massively easier.  He said his impact was almost immeasurable.
 
And that was a player who was at that time nowhere near where Revis is now.

 

[loshjott]

 
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12288669/new-england-patriots-plan-work-darrelle-revis-contract-extension-jonathan-kraft-says
 
 
Road to win Super Bowl 50 starts with this. 
 

 
And the buttering up begins.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

I hope nobodys actually worried about Revis leaving. Esp after Krafts comments about doing whatever it takes to win SB50.

I expect Mayo and Wilfork to be casualties...but not Revis and McCourty

 

[Dogman]

That's where I am too. Both Wilfork and Mayo would need restructures to stay with the team because they are not the best or top 3 at their positions and, thus, replaceable. McCourty and Revis are not replaceable through draft or FA.

 

[TheoShmeo]

I hope nobodys actually worried about Revis leaving. Esp after Krafts comments about doing whatever it takes to win SB50.

I expect Mayo and Wilfork to be casualties...but not Revis and McCourty

I'm somewhere between worried and concerned. 
 
It takes two to tango.  And Revis is very important to their success. 
 
Ty Law said that Revis would need the Pats to at least match the highest DB salary in the game.  He doesn't need to get more than that and if other teams go above that level, the Pats need not necessarily match it.  But Revis isn't going to take short money or a home town discount beyond that.
 
Assuming Law is right, will the Pats do what they need to do?  I think so.  But I am far from certain and I could imagine Revis saying "I got my ring and now I want to get at least max corner money...I only have a few NFL earning years left...."

 

[DJnVa]

With all due respect to Ty Law, how would he know what Revis needs? Just because he played same position?
 
Ask Dilfer how that worked out when discussing Brady this year

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I'm somewhere between worried and concerned.

This is about where I am. Nowhere near comfortable.
 

Ty Law said that Revis would need the Pats to at least match the highest DB salary in the game.

That means:

1. Patrick Peterson: $14m (well, $14.01m; 5-year deal with $48m out of $70m guaranteed)
2. Richard Sherman: $14m
3. Joe Haden: $13.7m
4. REVIS: $12m
5. Brandon Carr: $10m
6. Earl Thomas: $10m
7. Sam Shields: $9.75m
8. Leon Hall: $9.75m
9. Johnathan Joseph: $9.75m
10. Aqib Talib: $9.5m

It's a no brainer to re-work Revis' contract that's heavily front-loaded with $30-$35m guaranteed. Make him the highest paid (in terms of annual salary) back in the league by a smidge.
 
2015 FA class is painful to go through except for Revis. There's no one anywhere near ready to replace him on our current roster. 
 
Did I say it's a no-brainer? Indeed it is. 

 

[TheoShmeo]

With all due respect to Ty Law, how would he know what Revis needs? Just because he played same position?
 
Ask Dilfer how that worked out when discussing Brady this year

They're from the same home town and when Law said it, he seemed to be doing more than just guessing.

 

[nighthob]

On the other hand the maximum CB money would actually lower his cap figure for next year.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I'm somewhere between worried and concerned. 
 
It takes two to tango.  And Revis is very important to their success. 
 
Ty Law said that Revis would need the Pats to at least match the highest DB salary in the game.  He doesn't need to get more than that and if other teams go above that level, the Pats need not necessarily match it.  But Revis isn't going to take short money or a home town discount beyond that.
 
Assuming Law is right, will the Pats do what they need to do?  I think so.  But I am far from certain and I could imagine Revis saying "I got my ring and now I want to get at least max corner money...I only have a few NFL earning years left...."

I think it will happen. A contract like Sherman's (4/56 with an 11M bonus, in which he's easy to cut after three year) seems tenable from a cap perspective for the Patriots and would put Revis on par with Sherman and Peterson. Revis also accepted a deal to play this past year for $12M. He was probably strategically willing to accept a little less in order to reset his value and test out the situation in New England but it shows that he's not hellbent on making $16M cash every year no matter what.

I think Revis's age also helps here, as well as his semi-shaky performance in the playoffs against the Ravens. While some other team is probably willing to pay him more, its hard to see another team whispering in his ear that they'll blow the Patriots out of the water in terms of years/guarantee if he gets to free agency. Locking yourself into a 30-year-old CB for huge money and a lot of years is a hard sell.

 

[dcmissle]

I'm hopeful but cautious. I'll assume they'll be paying him very well, and that a trick here is to make the deal cap friendly.

I'm concerned because, as a practical matter, he can shoot his way out of town if he really wants, in all likelihood. Counting $25 MM against next year's cap is probably too much to bear.

 

[DJnVa]

 Counting $25 MM against next year's cap is probably too much to bear.

 
Jonathan Kraft said that is just a placeholder. Makes it seem there's no way he's playing for that.
 

 

[Reverend]

Revis also ran for Patriots union rep and is the nephew of Sean Gilbert who is running for NFLPA executive director on a platform that has some strong ideas about player salaries.
 
There are principled reasons for wanting large contracts outside of mere greed, and Revis seems like a thoughtful guy.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Revis also ran for Patriots union rep and is the nephew of Sean Gilbert who is running for NFLPA executive director on a platform that has some strong ideas about player salaries.
 
There are principled reasons for wanting large contracts outside of mere greed, and Revis seems like a thoughtful guy.

Exactly. I can't remember where but somewhere out there is an interview with Revis talking about negotiation and maximizing value and its a very interesting listen. He basically says that all players should maximize their value within reason, that players don't do this enough and often get duped by owners that have a variety of strucdtural advantages at the negotiating table, and that its an important issue for the union. He's a smart guy who sees the bigger picture.

 

[Stitch01]

This should actually be a fairly clean negotiation.  Pats know they have to offer something basically on top of the best cornerback deals signed in the last year, Revis decides whether he can live with that to stay with the Pats or hit the open market for top dollar, in which case he's more than likely gone.
 
Im not really worried or concerned about it, because the only way the Pats can really fuck it up is not offering a deal that looks like the elite CB deals, maybe a touch shorter and less guaranteed given age differences, and I doubt very much they do that.  If Revis wants to blow away the high end of the cornerback market he's going to be gone and that's fine, thank you always for the ring and I respect your desire to maximize earnings.  Would suck to lose him obviously, but pretty confident this team will contend for a Super Bowl next year with or without Revis.

 

[Devizier]

With all due respect to Ty Law, how would he know what Revis needs? Just because he played same position?

 
They are both from Aliquippa, not exactly a big town. By that theory, however, Mike Ditka might have some insight on Revis' intentions.

 

[ragnarok725]

This is about where I am. Nowhere near comfortable.
 

That means:

1. Patrick Peterson: $14m (well, $14.01m; 5-year deal with $48m out of $70m guaranteed)
2. Richard Sherman: $14m
3. Joe Haden: $13.7m
4. REVIS: $12m
5. Brandon Carr: $10m
6. Earl Thomas: $10m
7. Sam Shields: $9.75m
8. Leon Hall: $9.75m
9. Johnathan Joseph: $9.75m
10. Aqib Talib: $9.5m

It's a no brainer to re-work Revis' contract that's heavily front-loaded with $30-$35m guaranteed. Make him the highest paid (in terms of annual salary) back in the league by a smidge.
 
2015 FA class is painful to go through except for Revis. There's no one anywhere near ready to replace him on our current roster. 
 
Did I say it's a no-brainer? Indeed it is. 

 
I'm also quite concerned, and here's the reason: none of those top three guys were signed on the open market. All three were signed while under team control and with the franchise tag looming. With no leverage from the tag, Revis will need to be paid open market value. So at that point it's not just a matter of comparing him to the top CBs, it's a matter of asking what the most desperate team is willing to pay for him, and then having to top that. I think there's a world in which he could wind up getting paid significantly more (maybe like 2M/year more) than Sherman/Peterson.

 

[DJnVa]

Exactly. I can't remember where but somewhere out there is an interview with Revis talking about negotiation and maximizing value and its a very interesting listen. He basically says that all players should maximize their value within reason,

 

That all makes sense, but it's interesting to me that he said maximize "value" not maximize dollars. Different people value different things.

 

[H78]

Have Brady sit down and give him a lengthy chat about how taking a massive hometown discount is best for the team. ;-)

Just pay this man. Make him the top paid DB by like $1m guaranteed. I bet that's all he cares about...making more than Sherman.

 

[The Social Chair]

Have Brady sit down and give him a lengthy chat about how taking a massive hometown discount is best for the team. ;-)

 

 
Does that discussion include how to marry an extremely wealthy super model?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I'm also quite concerned, and here's the reason: none of those top three guys were signed on the open market. All three were signed while under team control and with the franchise tag looming. With no leverage from the tag, Revis will need to be paid open market value. So at that point it's not just a matter of comparing him to the top CBs, it's a matter of asking what the most desperate team is willing to pay for him, and then having to top that. I think there's a world in which he could wind up getting paid significantly more (maybe like 2M/year more) than Sherman/Peterson.

On the other hand, Peterson and Sherman signed their deals in advance of their age 24 and age 26 seasons, whereas Revis is going to be 30 next year. To give some recent context, Asomugha's last first or second team All Pro season was at age 29, Ty Law's last such season was at age 28, Rod Woodson's last such season (at CB) was at age 29, and Champ Bailey only had one such season after age 29. Deion Sanders made all pro teams through age 32 but he's basically the exception to the rule and, arguably, the GOAT at the position. Signing a CB to a huge deal in his mid 20s and at age 30 just isn't the same thing. Whether other teams really understand and internalize that is another matter.

 

[Ed Hillel]

My biggest concern with Revis is that he just isn't going to sign anything before hitting the market (why would he, if money is his biggest objective?), and at that point someone offers him just silly money (5/85, 55 guaranteed).

 

[epraz]

 
I'm also quite concerned, and here's the reason: none of those top three guys were signed on the open market. All three were signed while under team control and with the franchise tag looming. With no leverage from the tag, Revis will need to be paid open market value. So at that point it's not just a matter of comparing him to the top CBs, it's a matter of asking what the most desperate team is willing to pay for him, and then having to top that. I think there's a world in which he could wind up getting paid significantly more (maybe like 2M/year more) than Sherman/Peterson.

 
True, but Revis isn't quite on the open market yet.  This is why there've been rumors that the Pats would be willing to play out the second year of his deal.  They're not believable rumors, but the Pats need to try to keep whatever leverage they can...

 

[ragnarok725]

My biggest concern with Revis is that he just isn't going to sign anything before hitting the market (why would he, if money is his biggest objective?), and at that point someone offers him just silly money (5/85, 55 guaranteed).

 
Yeah, I think that's the problem here. If he's serious about staying he'll be happy with an offer commensurate with the top players at the position and take it. If he goes to FA and gets a bidding war going, it seems exceedingly unlikely he'll be back.

 

[Saints Rest]

How would we feel about Revis' old contract?  The one where he basically had a series of team options at $16million per year.  Would that be better or worse for the Pats?  It would make him the highest paid CB for 2015 and beyond.
 
Revis seems like the sort of guy who recognizes the difference between real money and phony contract numbers.  And he also seems creative in forging new methods to "maximize his value."  The Pats ahve a very young team whose most importnat player is on a very team-friendly contract.  Seems like a positive place to make something work.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I think they'll sign Revis for 4/$60 million with $30 million guaranteed.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

How would we feel about Revis' old contract?  The one where he basically had a series of team options at $16million per year.  Would that be better or worse for the Pats?  It would make him the highest paid CB for 2015 and beyond.
 
Revis seems like the sort of guy who recognizes the difference between real money and phony contract numbers.  And he also seems creative in forging new methods to "maximize his value."  The Pats ahve a very young team whose most importnat player is on a very team-friendly contract.  Seems like a positive place to make something work.

They'll need a different structure but it shouldn't be that hard to hammer out. One of the issues is that he has a $5M cap hit in 2015 from his current contract no matter what happens. So they can't just give him a $16M (or $14M) salary this year, as his total cap hit would be around $20M, which the team would likely want to avoid. The more likely structure is that there is a substantial signing bonus ($10-12M) and then the first year salary is very low compared to salaries in subsequent years. That smooths out the cap hits for the team but keeps the player's annual cash payments relatively consistent.

 

[quint]

I bet that's all he cares about...making more than Sherman.

If you care to go back and read his thoughts about the player's Union its really not.