I am making the same point as you.Are you referring to the rotation that won't be featuring Ohtani anytime soon?
I am making the same point as you.Are you referring to the rotation that won't be featuring Ohtani anytime soon?
The one that gets Walker Buehler back next season, followed by Dustin May, and then Shohei Ohtani in 2025, in addition to whatever moves they make? I think they'll be fine. Might have to get a little creative next season if they want to win 100 games again instead of just 95.Have you seen their rotation?
From what, 25M? Relative pennies... is MLB about to approve this deal if it brings down Ohtani's CBT significantly? Feels like a competitive no-no to me.Yes, that's why Sale's deal is only $23m by AAV.
All of those guys are coming back from major surgery, so let's see them do it first. Anyway, you asked for a reason, that's a reason.The one that gets Walker Buehler back next season, followed by Dustin May, and then Shohei Ohtani in 2025, in addition to whatever moves they make? I think they'll be fine. Might have to get a little creative next season if they want to win 100 games again instead of just 95.
Well... since 2013 they've lost three NLCS and two World Series, neither of which is a crappy playoff performance. But yeah, they're basically the old 90s Braves - always really good but kind of underwhelming for all that.Sure. Just like they have the past 10+ years and have one 60 game championship to show for it.
Outside of that they have been dogshit in the playoffs.
Yeah none of this makes sense. The Bonilla stuff was just for cash flow purposes as far as I thought...if everyone can just push more money into the future and save the team money that would change the way baseball contracts are done overnight.From what, 25M? Relative pennies... is MLB about to approve this deal if it brings down Ohtani's CBT significantly? Feels like a competitive no-no to me.
You're absolutely right. I will cherish those regular season championship banners over those crapshoot WS trophies forever.The postseason is largely a crapshoot (which, of course, the owners like, because it disincentives spending). Anyone who points to World Series results as a better indication of quality than W-L record is a fool.
Yes, but haven't you heard? Championships don't matter ... it's W-L records that countThe Dodgers, Mets and Padres have a combined 1 World Series championship over the last 30 years.
The Yankees haven‘t even won a pennant in 14 years. Big contracts have not prevented mid and small markets teams from competing and winning.
Why? Ohtani still gets all the money he is due and the Dodgers still have to pay full boat on the tax for what the contract is actually worth.From what, 25M? Relative pennies... is MLB about to approve this deal if it brings down Ohtani's CBT significantly? Feels like a competitive no-no to me.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/why-are-teams-issuing-extremely-long-contracts/What interest rates? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. If the deferrals are paid with interest equal to the discount rate the PV is still 700m.
Yeah, deferrals would be dumb for teams. If this $700 million has big deferrals, there is presumably a much lower number Ohtani would have taken without deferrals, and it would have been in the Dodgers’ interest to avoid the extra CBT. I guess income tax for deferred comp might matter to players, but I don’t know how that works.Seems very strange to me because in that case the deferrals are actually hurting you.
If the real total value of Mookie's contract is 306M, you would want to make the structure as close to that # as possible. Why add all these deferrals and stretch it out if you have to then use the 365M as the numerator? (unless you truly have cash flow problems)
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/shohei-ohtani-is-an-la-dodger-10-years-700-million.41260/post-5878650How does this compare to the biggest deals in all sports?
Well here's hoping for the best W-L record for the next 10 years with none of those foolish World Series trophies.The postseason is largely a crapshoot (which, of course, the owners like, because it disincentives spending). Anyone who points to World Series results as a better indication iesof quality than W-L record is a fool.
Yes I know, hence the wink.I am making the same point as you.
Agree to disagree, particularly in baseball ... where the season can be incredibly long for fans who know their teams don't stand a chanceThat said dynasties are fun and good for the game
$660mHenry and co. bought the whole Red Sox franchise for $380 million 21 years ago. The world has gone screwy.
Although I guess the purchase included NESN.ESPN.com: MLB - Henry's group completes Red Sox purchase. FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Former Florida Marlins owner John Henry and his partners completed their record $660 million purchase of the Boston Red Sox on Wednesday, ending seven decades of ownership by the Yawkey family and its trust.Feb 27, 2002
Agreed.Yeah, deferrals would be dumb for teams. If this $700 million has big deferrals, there is presumably a much lower number Ohtani would have taken without deferrals, and it would have been in the Dodgers’ interest to avoid the extra CBT. I guess income tax for deferred comp might matter to players, but I don’t know how that works.
Given the size of this contract can Dave Roberts really be associated most with a steal now?
Did Ohtani sign with LA or LIV?
Is the dog named Bluey?
This contract is the richest in team sports and auto racing in history by total funds with a confirmed citation and source. Ever. It surpasses Lionel Messi’s $674M (USD) deal with FC Barçelona from 2017-2021.
What about the yearly amount. If Messi got $647 for five years, that is way crazier than this deal.
Fortunately, that's why last season's Bruins team was so completely fulfilling.Yes, but haven't you heard? Championships don't matter ... it's W-L records that count
Fair enough, Jon.This is why I laughed at this question a few weeks ago, @Rovin Romine:
I said they would be the best team in baseball for the next 10 years, not the team with the most championships. And they will be, even if they never win the World Series in that span.Yes, but haven't you heard? Championships don't matter ... it's W-L records that count
No, but I think the Jays pushed the Dodgers there, and the Dodgers weren't going to be beaten on a top target again like they were with Gerrit Cole.Fair enough, Jon.
That is an amazing contract. Did you think it would be that high?
Because the entire length of the contract isn't paid on day 1? That's not a loophole.Also, if this is how every contract's CBT value is calculated, why are the multiyear year deals with no deferrals not having their real value adjusted?
I smell a loophole.
Will the world last that long?Seriously hoping this ends with the Dodgers establishing a Shohei Ohtani day where they pay his estate $1m every year until 2424.
Yes, I understand how PV works. Let me ask you this. If the deal is 700/10 with no deferrals and he gets 70m per year what's his CBT hit?There is no chance the present value of this contract is 700M. That's not how any of these contracts work. Even with no deferrals and the most simplistic possible contract (i.e. exactly 70M per year for 10 years). 70M in 2033 is not worth 70M now.
If someone signs a contract that says they will receive 70M in 2033, thats what they get. 70M in 2033. They don't get what 70M in 2023 would be worth in 2033.
Yes, Messi's yearly amount was higher. Highest annual salaries I am aware of are soccer players Cristiano Ronaldo and Karim Benzema, each currently being paid 200 million Euros (about $215M!) per year to play in Saudi Arabia.What about the yearly amount. If Messi got $647 for five years, that is way crazier than this deal.
I'm sorry, I got it wrong: Sale's deal is only $25m in AAV but $29m in actual dollars, because of the deferrals.From what, 25M? Relative pennies... is MLB about to approve this deal if it brings down Ohtani's CBT significantly? Feels like a competitive no-no to me.
Personally I no longer take the baseball postseason seriously (of course I still want my team to win), so I'm just thrilled to have Ohtani.If you’re a Dodgers fan, how many WS wins do you need to see to make this a good contract? Is one enough?
I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays even bid higher than that, it will probably come out soon.70 million per year for 10 years. I'll take me a while to let that sink in.
I wonder what and how close the runner up bid was.
But I think you're in the big minority. Most fans want titles.Personally I no longer take the baseball postseason seriously (of course I still want my team to win), so I'm just thrilled to have Ohtani.
You can choose to value whatever you want as a fan. But if you're trying to judge the actual quality of a baseball club and the people running it, World Series championships are not what you should be looking at.You're absolutely right. I will cherish those regular season championship banners over those crapshoot WS trophies forever.
If he's right then it makes a lot of sense and resolves the CBT question.Good thread on the math. The CBT calls for 5% deprecation of value on every deferred year.
Making some assumptions, if 400M of the contract is evenly deferred for 40 years after the end of the deal, the CBT hit comes down to ~61M - not as crazy as I thought.
View: https://twitter.com/jonbecker_/status/1733603663019377103
My guess is Dodgers were around 500-550, Jays made a real run and said 600 this week, Dodgesr ownership gave the OK to not lose the player from there. Just a guess as the whole Toronto storyline may have been overblown from day one.I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays even bid higher than that, it will probably come out soon.
Personally I'm waiting for the Blue Jays press release saying that they offered more, but Ohtani took less to stay in L.A.70 million per year for 10 years. I'll take me a while to let that sink in.
I wonder what and how close the runner up bid was.
Yeah, based on AAV, I have this as 5th most there, from what I can find from team sports and auto racing. Unconfirmed but what I found of higher thus far? In USD: Ronaldo $214M with Al-Nassr, Benzema $214M with Al-Ittihad, Messi's aforementioned deal with Barca for $168.5M (it was four years, not five), and boxer Canelo Alvarez's deal with DAZN for $73M per annum.What about the yearly amount. If Messi got $647 for five years, that is way crazier than this deal.
Trust me. If the dodgers do not win a WS with Ohtani and the current roster they have in the next 10 years, LA fans will uh. Not be happy. This is coming from someone who lives in LA and has seen how the fans reacted after they (the best regular season team in baseball) got booted from the playoffs without much fanfareI said they would be the best team in baseball for the next 10 years, not the team with the most championships. And they will be, even if they never win the World Series in that span.
I think the "goodness" or "worth" of the contract depends on a lot of factors outside it. If LA gets to the post-season in 6-7 of the next 10 years with Ohtani as a major contributor, that's probably enough to justify it. If Ohtani is injured or underperforms, or the contract hamstrings LA in some way, then it becomes a bad contract.If you’re a Dodgers fan, how many WS wins do you need to see to make this a good contract? Is one enough?
I am aware of this, and it's completely irrelevant to my point that the Dodgers will still be the best team in baseball for the next 10 years, despite paying the dreaded, heretofore thought-to-be team-destroying CBT.Trust me. If the dodgers do not win a WS with Ohtani and the current roster they have in the next 10 years, LA fans will uh. Not be happy. This is coming from someone who lives in LA and has seen how the fans reacted after they (the best regular season team in baseball) got booted from the playoffs without much fanfare