The Adventures of Malik Cunningham
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
They don’t have high salaries, but every dollar counts. My understanding is that practice squad players count — during the season everything counts, as opposed to the off-season, when you only have to count the top 51.
This is correct.
It's funny to me that the NFL is the league that gets "the cap is crap" thrown at it.
Every dollar you spend, no matter how small the charge is, goes on your cap.
Salva has been posting laughable takes on the Pats across multiple forums for over a decade.
Well it is true that if you had no confidence in a guy in the first place you can't lose any.
Maybe this is a hair brained take, but I think they used Cunningham to try and take some pressure off Mac by deactivating Zappe for a week. Given everything we've read about Cunningham, I don't think he's a real threat to take QB snaps and run the traditional offense. They needed the WR depth given the injuries, Belichick and O'Brien both referenced injuries as a reason for activating Cunningham, so that got him signed and on the gameday roster. SInce Cunningham is also a QB, they could make Zappe the emergency QB and thus Mac wouldn't be looking at the sidelines after every play wondering if he's going to get pulled.
Not saying it's the right call but that's my interpretation of the series of moves and reporting around Cunningham.
Not saying it's the right call but that's my interpretation of the series of moves and reporting around Cunningham.
Theyre lucky that Malik didn't fumble or get injured on that one snap he got. That was an absolute debacle. I was listening to Zolak and he said that even in practice/pregame, he doesnt have a great feel for running routes and getting in and out of breaks. It seems that even with the WR room being so bad, he is not quite there yet. This is understandable as he has been splitting reps between 2 positions.
I also saw in another thread that on Sunday the Pats used motion a ton, and the yards per play were higher than when they had no motion at all. Small sample size, but this team is going to have to get creative in their play designs and formations. Hopefully this gets Malik more touches. I am desperately looking for positives here lol
I also saw in another thread that on Sunday the Pats used motion a ton, and the yards per play were higher than when they had no motion at all. Small sample size, but this team is going to have to get creative in their play designs and formations. Hopefully this gets Malik more touches. I am desperately looking for positives here lol
I hate to be the turd in the punch bowl but it doesn’t look like he is anything but a trick player. Look, he made the wrong read twice on zone read. That’s just inexcusable. He is not a viable option as an NFL QB. He isn’t even backup material imo. The fact that he was active tells me that this roster is a dumpster fire. Don’t look for hope here. There is none.
On a personal note though I think he was a great college QB and I sympathize with @bsj. It’s tough when one of your guys probably won’t cut it in the NFL. I’ve been there. James Proche is one of the all time greats at SMU at WR. Guy is a legend. He also did some things for me and my kids off the field that speak to his impeccable character. Sadly though as good as he was in college he just isn’t talented enough to succeed in the NFL. That can be painful to hear. I wish I saw something with Cunningham to make me think otherwise but I see a situationally limited practice squad guy at best. That shouldn’t take away from what he did in college! Just like Proche not being good enough in the pros doesn’t change my mind on him one bit.
On a personal note though I think he was a great college QB and I sympathize with @bsj. It’s tough when one of your guys probably won’t cut it in the NFL. I’ve been there. James Proche is one of the all time greats at SMU at WR. Guy is a legend. He also did some things for me and my kids off the field that speak to his impeccable character. Sadly though as good as he was in college he just isn’t talented enough to succeed in the NFL. That can be painful to hear. I wish I saw something with Cunningham to make me think otherwise but I see a situationally limited practice squad guy at best. That shouldn’t take away from what he did in college! Just like Proche not being good enough in the pros doesn’t change my mind on him one bit.
I'm not a Louisville guy...lol...just a guy that saw him a ton because I watched a lot of ACC.
The guy had 6 plays. I'd like to see at least a few series before writing him off completely. That said, I don't think he's the QB of the future or anything. Just an unknown in a group of known busts. Play him. If he surprises, great. If not, he helps us get Caleb Wilson or Michael Pennix
The guy had 6 plays. I'd like to see at least a few series before writing him off completely. That said, I don't think he's the QB of the future or anything. Just an unknown in a group of known busts. Play him. If he surprises, great. If not, he helps us get Caleb Wilson or Michael Pennix
You don’t need help getting Penix. Penix isn’t going top 10, probably. You never know though. The issue with Cunningham is they haven’t played him at practice as a QB. He’s a gadget QB option but he isn’t a real QB option. You want to play a guy who has barely any practice at QB with the playbook? Bill has been developing him as a WR. If the answer is well he can’t be worse than Mac I assure you that he can. It’s frustrating because Zappe and Cunningham aren’t options so there is no one to turn to.
When they fall to 1-7 they should probably take a look at their younger players. You won’t be able to even get a good look at Boutte, Thornton, Douglas, etc. with Cunningham or Zappe in at QB. As bad as Mac is he’s still an upgrade over them. Cunningham is a UDFA QB to WR conversion project. He isn’t even a backup QB in this league. I can’t remember which thread here and who said it but it was about pining for the 2nd and 3rd string QBs in the early 90s because everything else sucked. Those guys also sucked. It’s the same phenomenon now.
I think Bill’s response either in the last week about Cunningham and how the team views him as a WR but had some limited packages for him tells you everything you need to know about him as a QB prospect. Bill didn’t even play Stidham in 2020 when the season was lost. Unless something drastic happens and they change course he is never ever going to start a game for them at QB. Furthermore I don’t know a single person in the draft community (and that includes the free thinkers like Matt Waldman) who saw him as even a backup QB prospect. I mean you come in with a limited number of packages and you fuck up your zone read twice? You get 6 snaps and 2 of them are mistakes on basic ass reads? Yikes. Well, at least he fits in with the other QBs though, right?
When they fall to 1-7 they should probably take a look at their younger players. You won’t be able to even get a good look at Boutte, Thornton, Douglas, etc. with Cunningham or Zappe in at QB. As bad as Mac is he’s still an upgrade over them. Cunningham is a UDFA QB to WR conversion project. He isn’t even a backup QB in this league. I can’t remember which thread here and who said it but it was about pining for the 2nd and 3rd string QBs in the early 90s because everything else sucked. Those guys also sucked. It’s the same phenomenon now.
I think Bill’s response either in the last week about Cunningham and how the team views him as a WR but had some limited packages for him tells you everything you need to know about him as a QB prospect. Bill didn’t even play Stidham in 2020 when the season was lost. Unless something drastic happens and they change course he is never ever going to start a game for them at QB. Furthermore I don’t know a single person in the draft community (and that includes the free thinkers like Matt Waldman) who saw him as even a backup QB prospect. I mean you come in with a limited number of packages and you fuck up your zone read twice? You get 6 snaps and 2 of them are mistakes on basic ass reads? Yikes. Well, at least he fits in with the other QBs though, right?
https://x.com/realalexbarth/status/1714634182402413040?s=46&t=kvYWuq6n2wZg-KCGv0fpWg
Reporter asked BB about playing Cunningham at QB to start. He says he is improving and we will see.
Reporter asked BB about playing Cunningham at QB to start. He says he is improving and we will see.
That's interesting.
I agree that Mac gives us the best chance to properly evaluate Thornton, Butte, Douglas. That's a huge consideration considering how it might impact draft choices next year. I question whether Mac's arm will help though. Looking at tape, Bedard said Thornton's speed translates. It's there according to him, but he isn't sure Mac's arm can keep up. You mentioned Stidham - perhaps try and pry him loose? For Zappe and 2025 7th? He's terrible, but he knows the system somewhat and IIRC he at least has a live arm. I really hate Mac at this point (never really liked him - he came off as entitled and plays dirty - basically an asshole), so I'm happy watching almost anyone else fail as badly. But getting good evaluations on those WR's is at least constructive. The only other question is whether BB will give them the leash.
Assuming the Pats lose the next 2 games, it will be interesting to see if BB actually pivots to trying to play and develop some of these young guys or if he gets stubborn and tries to claw out as many victories with his “trusted” veterans.
I’d love to see Mapu and Keion White (if healthy) get starter level workloads on D as well.
kind of plays into the “would BB trade Uche (or others)“ scenario I wonder about. I just can’t see BB admitting to himself that it’s a lost cause and to start looking towards 2024. I hope he does, and Boutte can get active on game day and BB can make whatever trades he can (if any) to get low round picks for one or two of these veterans but I fear he’s too stubborn. The team could be 1-15 and he would probably go into week 17 with his veterans playing and the rookies healthy scratches or barely playing.
View: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1716931786905915753
Waived, back to the PS he goes likely
Waived, back to the PS he goes likely
roster shuffling mostly, they had a lot of injuries that week and wanted 3 PS guys (Reagor, Pharms, Cunningham) up so they signed Cunningham who they figured was cheapest for 2 weeks, then put him as backup QB to get more flexibility. My guess is Reagor who is playing a decent amount and is out of elevations is taking Cunningham's spot and when he clears waivers Cunningham goes to the PS.
When they signed Malik to a three year deal is any of it guaranteed? Just seems so odd that they'd bother to ink such a deal when they could've just call him up from the practice squad for a game, no?
no, the standard UDFA deal is 3 years, but none of it is guaranteed outside the bonus, which is offset by a year on the PS anyway. There is no reason for a team not to sign a guy to a 3 year deal instead of a 1. As the PS elevation, you can only elevate 2 guys per week and only 4 times each per year. They wanted Reagor and Pharms who had more significant roles, so Cunningham was either to be signed to a roster slot or they would have had to go into the game a bit shorthanded.
I'd Iike him to stick on the PS, but I wouldn't mind if he landed somewhere willing to give him some snaps at QB down the road either.
Thank you for the explanation.
Kind of amazing how complicated the NFL makes this stuff be.
I don't feel shocked by this move, but the Patriots approach to the QB position in general has been kind of bonkers this whole season. I can't come to any conclusion other than they dislike every single backup option but it's now to late to make any moves in that regard, so there goes the merry go round. For all the talk of how the Patriots ruined Mac or impeded his progress, how does Zappe go from rookie who acquitted himself really well in limited playing time under an admittedly restricted offensive approach to... whatever he is now. Not saying he was great, but coming off 2022 I thought "solid NFL backup" was very much a high probability outcome for him. Now all of the weird stuff with Cunningham too (just figure out if he is a QB or a WR and have him practice solely that), then the Corral stuff, the different QB3 configurations, it's all been so strange at a position they've historically been super set at.
Cunningham is a rookie QB coming from a smaller program. So the learning curve for him as a QB is going to be quite long, well past this season. IOW, he is still strictly a development prospect. He may yet get a chance to play a similar role in a future game as he did against the Raiders this season. I would expect that during this offseason, he will be given a clear direction (QB or WR) on what to work on, and we'll see what happens come August.
As for Zappe, we've seen in this past where QB's have a brief preseason flash in their rookie year and then never really progress from there. Zappe actually got some real snaps during his rookie year, but his limitations have become more apparent this season. To be fair to Zappe, he wasn't exactly thrown into the best of situations this season. The OL played poorly against Dallas and New Orleans, and he's not exactly the type of QB that can overcome bad OL play. But he's looked bad since day 1 of training camp.
And QB3 tends to be a revolving door more often than not, especially with the various practice squad and game day activation rules in place now. The situation may have looked different if the team had signed a veteran backup, but I can see why that didn't happen either.
Which is why he should have been practicing at that position if they intended to make him a QB, but he was getting WR snaps and then was signed to the roster to be the backup. They never shuffled QB2 and 3 around like that ever, and they went into some seasons with some questionable at best or completely unproven backups (Brian Hoyer as a rookie UDFA being the sole QB on the roster with Brady coming off an ACL tear, Kevin O'Connel as the sole backup to Cassel in 2008) and they were set with those guys. In terms of NFL success Zappe is ahead of a lot of guys that were established in that role over the years and they seemingly aren't satisfied with him for whatever reason. As for QB3 there was plenty of seasons in which they didn't even feel the need to carry one, nevermind play carrousel at that spot.
Sure, but if that's the case then they failed him as well. What I saw from him last year was middle of the pack backup quality at worst. And again, they played whole seasons with backups either worse or more unproven without making moves at the position constantly.
Louisville is far from a smaller program. They are currently ranked 18th in the country. Bailey Zappe came from a small program, Tyson Bagent came from a ridiculously small program. Cunningham came from the same program as Lamar Jackson. He is developmental because he doesn't have traditional NFL QB tools but it has little to do with the program. The vast, vast majority of NCAA QBs are developmental at best prospects at the NFL level.
The rules for activating players from the PS and for the emergency QB have changed since the days that the Pats typically carried only 2 QB's. So the shuffling around at the 3rd QB spot is something that is much more common nowadays.
Zappe just hasn't proven himself to be any good. So Zappe is not going to be securely ensconced in the QB2 role going forward. What happened in an extremely small sample last season was sufficient to get Zappe the nod to be QB2 going into this season. He just hasn't performed well in that role, and the other options available to the team are not necessarily any better.
As for Cunningham, it was worth seeing if he could possibly make the team as a part time WR. Now the team knows he's not ready for that. So the next option was the change-of-pace QB for a handful of plays. Didn't help much in Vegas, but could be tried again in the future. Anything beyond that for Cunningham will wait until next season.
I fail to see the downside of the team's approach. If Mac gets injured for the season, the team is missing the playoffs regardless of who plays QB2 or QB3.
It’s an interesting topic. The two thoughts that occurred to me are as follows:
1) Maybe BOB likes Zappe less than the three-headed Bill/Matty P/Joe Judge hydra. That would explain why the team seems to have soured on him in year two but not totally cut bait.
2) Maybe Zappe had good results last year in spite of bad process. Yes, we saw him play fairly cleanly against Detroit and the Browns but other than one pass he was dreadful in the Bears game. It’s possible the team was less pleased with his performance than fans were or he had major problems in practice that just didn’t reveal themselves in limited game time.
All of which is to say, there’s a lot we don’t know that would absolutely explain why they’ve kind of yo-yoed around with him this year.
I think your eyes were deceiving you last year. What I saw was a guy too small, too slow, and too inaccurate to do anything impactful.
To be fair, at the time other people also thought Zappe looked decent last year too. Here's one take after his first start (second game) last year for example...
That's a guy who sounds a lot like a middle of pack backup quality, no?
Some insomnia quick hitters:
1) Zappe’s performance last year was a mirage to a degree. Their system last year was less complicated. Zappe completely bottoming out is surprising though even though I wasn’t that high on him to begin with. Zappe couldn’t get to a point where he could process and execute the new scheme quick enough and he’s not a guy who can succeed out of structure or has impressive physical gifts.
2) I think the multiple cuts tells you hat the league thinks about Malik. He hasn’t been claimed. He’s a fringe PS player. He might eventually develop as an athletic backup but he’s not particularly close right now or so it appears.
3) Given they had no reason to suspect Zappe bottoming out they didn’t feel the need to take a QB. I think that will change this year.
4) They will get an extended look at Grier who a bunch of us liked for the Pats back then. He makes a lot of sense as a backup stylistically and skill set wise.
5) Malik offers value as a scout team QB and long term WR convert project. He might even get to be a super utility player. Let’s see where he is next camp with a year under his belt. Could be a fun story. His processing worries me.
1) Zappe’s performance last year was a mirage to a degree. Their system last year was less complicated. Zappe completely bottoming out is surprising though even though I wasn’t that high on him to begin with. Zappe couldn’t get to a point where he could process and execute the new scheme quick enough and he’s not a guy who can succeed out of structure or has impressive physical gifts.
2) I think the multiple cuts tells you hat the league thinks about Malik. He hasn’t been claimed. He’s a fringe PS player. He might eventually develop as an athletic backup but he’s not particularly close right now or so it appears.
3) Given they had no reason to suspect Zappe bottoming out they didn’t feel the need to take a QB. I think that will change this year.
4) They will get an extended look at Grier who a bunch of us liked for the Pats back then. He makes a lot of sense as a backup stylistically and skill set wise.
5) Malik offers value as a scout team QB and long term WR convert project. He might even get to be a super utility player. Let’s see where he is next camp with a year under his belt. Could be a fun story. His processing worries me.
That seems about right. There are guys who bounce back and forth between roster and practice squad for a while before becoming decent players (Malcolm Bryant for example), so it is not a death sentence, but it is the track he's on.
Kind of mystified by any level of Grier optimism. He's been a third-stringer his whole career. He's only been allowed to throw passes in NFL games twice; both were four years ago, and both 30-point blowout losses. We picked him off the scrap heap, and to the scrap heap he will one day return.
You are likely right. I am not optimistic about Grier but I think he has a better chance of being a 2nd string vs Zappe and Cunningham. None are good options. I fully expect them to draft another guy as well as bring in a veteran. Maybe just one vs the other but definitely a change.
Ugh I know, right? He low-key was a very good fit for this current system and especially an inconsistent OL... c'est la vie.