Classic BB. Josh won't fall for it, though.BB talked about his progress as a WR this week.
They don’t have high salaries, but every dollar counts. My understanding is that practice squad players count — during the season everything counts, as opposed to the off-season, when you only have to count the top 51.Wouldn't practice squad guys have salaries too low to figure into any cap calculations?
He gave a legit answer to your question and this was your response.JFC what are you looking at or smoking to come to these conclusions?
This is correct.They don’t have high salaries, but every dollar counts. My understanding is that practice squad players count — during the season everything counts, as opposed to the off-season, when you only have to count the top 51.
Salva has been posting laughable takes on the Pats across multiple forums for over a decade.You are a cartoonishly bad poster on this topic.
I, for one, welcome our new Michael Bishop overlord.Officially the No. 2 QB today (Zappe is emergency QB)
Perhaps the most excitement generated by the New England Patriots offense in a while came 90 minutes prior to kickoff on Sunday.
Usual backup Bailey Zappe was slotted as the team's emergency third quarterback, meaning he'd been supplanted by Malik Cunningham as the No. 2 behind Mac Jones.
Having never played in an NFL game, it was quite a leap for Cunningham, but it's a sign of things to come, according to Patriots offensive coordinator Bill O'Brien.
"You could see him at different spots throughout the offense obviously other than offensive line, he can play a lot of different places," O'Brien said Tuesday, via the Boston Herald’s Mac Cerullo. "So, it will be week to week based on the game plan and we're pretty early in this week so I don't think we have any idea where that will be this week."
Having been elevated from the practice squad, Cunningham made his official NFL debut in the Patriots' 21-17 loss to the Las Vegas Raiders on Sunday. He saw six snaps' worth of action with a 5-yard sack as his only statistic to show. However, there was a glimpse of what could lie ahead as Cunningham shared the field with Jones more often than not, lining up wide twice, in the slot twice and at QB on his two other snaps.
"You put together a package of plays and you try not to overload him, and they're plays within our system, so these aren't brand new plays," O'Brien said. "He's a very bright guy, he does a good job, he knows the plays and he's gotten better every week."
Owners of the 31st-ranked offense in points scored, the Patriots are throwing anything they can at the scoreboard and hoping something sticks. The 25-year-old Cunnigham is an undrafted rookie out of Louisville who threw for 9,664 yards and 70 touchdowns in parts of five seasons, while adding 3,182 rushing yards and 50 scores on the ground. A look at Cunningham's 2021 redshirt junior season in which he had 1,034 yards and 20 scores on the ground in addition to 2,941 yards and another 19 TDs through the air is example enough on why the Patriots are kicking the tires to see how Cunningham can run in the NFL given their sputtering offense.
During the preseason, Cunningham had a chance to show off his versatility, completing 3 of 6 passes for 19 yards, running the ball six times for 39 yards and a touchdown and tallying one reception on nine targets.
So, if nothing more, the Patriots (1-5) have added some intrigue on offense from within.
Nonetheless, O'Brien was clear there wasn't a reason to read too much into this as a slight on Zappe and also confirmed Jones was the starter for Week 7 against the Buffalo Bills.
"We haven't lost any confidence in Bailey," O'Brien said, "we felt that was the best way to go about it for the Raider game based on where we were from an injury standpoint, how do we get Malik Cunningham into the game and that was the best way to get him into the game."
Just how Cunningham gets into the game against the Bills this week and beyond is the latest QB storyline to watch for in Boston.
Well it is true that if you had no confidence in a guy in the first place you can't lose any.
I hate to be the turd in the punch bowl but it doesn’t look like he is anything but a trick player. Look, he made the wrong read twice on zone read. That’s just inexcusable. He is not a viable option as an NFL QB. He isn’t even backup material imo. The fact that he was active tells me that this roster is a dumpster fire. Don’t look for hope here. There is none.
On a personal note though I think he was a great college QB and I sympathize with @bsj. It’s tough when one of your guys probably won’t cut it in the NFL. I’ve been there. James Proche is one of the all time greats at SMU at WR. Guy is a legend. He also did some things for me and my kids off the field that speak to his impeccable character. Sadly though as good as he was in college he just isn’t talented enough to succeed in the NFL. That can be painful to hear. I wish I saw something with Cunningham to make me think otherwise but I see a situationally limited practice squad guy at best. That shouldn’t take away from what he did in college! Just like Proche not being good enough in the pros doesn’t change my mind on him one bit.
That's interesting.https://x.com/realalexbarth/status/1714634182402413040?s=46&t=kvYWuq6n2wZg-KCGv0fpWg
Reporter asked BB about playing Cunningham at QB to start. He says he is improving and we will see.
Assuming the Pats lose the next 2 games, it will be interesting to see if BB actually pivots to trying to play and develop some of these young guys or if he gets stubborn and tries to claw out as many victories with his “trusted” veterans.That's interesting.
I agree that Mac gives us the best chance to properly evaluate Thornton, Butte, Douglas. That's a huge consideration considering how it might impact draft choices next year. I question whether Mac's arm will help though. Looking at tape, Bedard said Thornton's speed translates. It's there according to him, but he isn't sure Mac's arm can keep up. You mentioned Stidham - perhaps try and pry him loose? For Zappe and 2025 7th? He's terrible, but he knows the system somewhat and IIRC he at least has a live arm. I really hate Mac at this point (never really liked him - he came off as entitled and plays dirty - basically an asshole), so I'm happy watching almost anyone else fail as badly. But getting good evaluations on those WR's is at least constructive. The only other question is whether BB will give them the leash.
Throwing spaghetti against the wall.So him getting elevated to #2 against the Raiders was still strategery or..??
roster shuffling mostly, they had a lot of injuries that week and wanted 3 PS guys (Reagor, Pharms, Cunningham) up so they signed Cunningham who they figured was cheapest for 2 weeks, then put him as backup QB to get more flexibility. My guess is Reagor who is playing a decent amount and is out of elevations is taking Cunningham's spot and when he clears waivers Cunningham goes to the PS.So him getting elevated to #2 against the Raiders was still strategery or..??
no, the standard UDFA deal is 3 years, but none of it is guaranteed outside the bonus, which is offset by a year on the PS anyway. There is no reason for a team not to sign a guy to a 3 year deal instead of a 1. As the PS elevation, you can only elevate 2 guys per week and only 4 times each per year. They wanted Reagor and Pharms who had more significant roles, so Cunningham was either to be signed to a roster slot or they would have had to go into the game a bit shorthanded.When they signed Malik to a three year deal is any of it guaranteed? Just seems so odd that they'd bother to ink such a deal when they could've just call him up from the practice squad for a game, no?
Thank you for the explanation.no, the standard UDFA deal is 3 years, but none of it is guaranteed outside the bonus, which is offset by a year on the PS anyway. There is no reason for a team not to sign a guy to a 3 year deal instead of a 1. As the PS elevation, you can only elevate 2 guys per week and only 4 times each per year. They wanted Reagor and Pharms who had more significant roles, so Cunningham was either to be signed to a roster slot or they would have had to go into the game a bit shorthanded.
Cunningham is a rookie QB coming from a smaller program. So the learning curve for him as a QB is going to be quite long, well past this season. IOW, he is still strictly a development prospect. He may yet get a chance to play a similar role in a future game as he did against the Raiders this season. I would expect that during this offseason, he will be given a clear direction (QB or WR) on what to work on, and we'll see what happens come August.I don't feel shocked by this move, but the Patriots approach to the QB position in general has been kind of bonkers this whole season. I can't come to any conclusion other than they dislike every single backup option but it's now to late to make any moves in that regard, so there goes the merry go round. For all the talk of how the Patriots ruined Mac or impeded his progress, how does Zappe go from rookie who acquitted himself really well in limited playing time under an admittedly restricted offensive approach to... whatever he is now. Not saying he was great, but coming off 2022 I thought "solid NFL backup" was very much a high probability outcome for him. Now all of the weird stuff with Cunningham too (just figure out if he is a QB or a WR and have him practice solely that), then the Corral stuff, the different QB3 configurations, it's all been so strange at a position they've historically been super set at.
Which is why he should have been practicing at that position if they intended to make him a QB, but he was getting WR snaps and then was signed to the roster to be the backup. They never shuffled QB2 and 3 around like that ever, and they went into some seasons with some questionable at best or completely unproven backups (Brian Hoyer as a rookie UDFA being the sole QB on the roster with Brady coming off an ACL tear, Kevin O'Connel as the sole backup to Cassel in 2008) and they were set with those guys. In terms of NFL success Zappe is ahead of a lot of guys that were established in that role over the years and they seemingly aren't satisfied with him for whatever reason. As for QB3 there was plenty of seasons in which they didn't even feel the need to carry one, nevermind play carrousel at that spot.Cunningham is a rookie QB coming from a smaller program. So the learning curve for him as a QB is going to be quite long, well past this season. IOW, he is still strictly a development prospect. He may yet get a chance to play a similar role in a future game as he did against the Raiders this season. I would expect that during this offseason, he will be given a clear direction (QB or WR) on what to work on, and we'll see what happens come August.
As for Zappe, we've seen in this past where QB's have a brief preseason flash in their rookie year and then never really progress from there. Zappe actually got some real snaps during his rookie year, but his limitations have become more apparent this season. To be fair to Zappe, he wasn't exactly thrown into the best of situations this season. The OL played poorly against Dallas and New Orleans, and he's not exactly the type of QB that can overcome bad OL play. But he's looked bad since day 1 of training camp.
And QB3 tends to be a revolving door more often than not, especially with the various practice squad and game day activation rules in place now. The situation may have looked different if the team had signed a veteran backup, but I can see why that didn't happen either.
Sure, but if that's the case then they failed him as well. What I saw from him last year was middle of the pack backup quality at worst. And again, they played whole seasons with backups either worse or more unproven without making moves at the position constantly.Maybe they aren't satisfied in Zappe because he's not really good.
Louisville is far from a smaller program. They are currently ranked 18th in the country. Bailey Zappe came from a small program, Tyson Bagent came from a ridiculously small program. Cunningham came from the same program as Lamar Jackson. He is developmental because he doesn't have traditional NFL QB tools but it has little to do with the program. The vast, vast majority of NCAA QBs are developmental at best prospects at the NFL level.Cunningham is a rookie QB coming from a smaller program. So the learning curve for him as a QB is going to be quite long, well past this season. IOW, he is still strictly a development prospect. He may yet get a chance to play a similar role in a future game as he did against the Raiders this season. I would expect that during this offseason, he will be given a clear direction (QB or WR) on what to work on, and we'll see what happens come August.
The rules for activating players from the PS and for the emergency QB have changed since the days that the Pats typically carried only 2 QB's. So the shuffling around at the 3rd QB spot is something that is much more common nowadays.Which is why he should have been practicing at that position if they intended to make him a QB, but he was getting WR snaps and then was signed to the roster to be the backup. They never shuffled QB2 and 3 around like that ever, and they went into some seasons with some questionable at best or completely unproven backups (Brian Hoyer as a rookie UDFA being the sole QB on the roster with Brady coming off an ACL tear, Kevin O'Connel as the sole backup to Cassel in 2008) and they were set with those guys. In terms of NFL success Zappe is ahead of a lot of guys that were established in that role over the years and they seemingly aren't satisfied with him for whatever reason. As for QB3 there was plenty of seasons in which they didn't even feel the need to carry one, nevermind play carrousel at that spot.
It’s an interesting topic. The two thoughts that occurred to me are as follows:For all the talk of how the Patriots ruined Mac or impeded his progress, how does Zappe go from rookie who acquitted himself really well in limited playing time under an admittedly restricted offensive approach to... whatever he is now.
I think your eyes were deceiving you last year. What I saw was a guy too small, too slow, and too inaccurate to do anything impactful.Sure, but if that's the case then they failed him as well. What I saw from him last year was middle of the pack backup quality at worst. And again, they played whole seasons with backups either worse or more unproven without making moves at the position constantly.
To be fair, at the time other people also thought Zappe looked decent last year too. Here's one take after his first start (second game) last year for example...I think your eyes were deceiving you last year. What I saw was a guy too small, too slow, and too inaccurate to do anything impactful.
That's a guy who sounds a lot like a middle of pack backup quality, no?Zappe was perfectly cromulent. But a big part of that goes to the FO/Coaching Staff. We saw yesterday how teams with their 3rd string QB wilt against going up against first rounders, but Zappe has held his own over the past 2 weeks.
I am hoping that they like Grier but just don't think he is ready yet.I don't feel shocked by this move, but the Patriots approach to the QB position in general has been kind of bonkers this whole season. I can't come to any conclusion other than they dislike every single backup option but it's now to late to make any moves in that regard, so there goes the merry go round. For all the talk of how the Patriots ruined Mac or impeded his progress, how does Zappe go from rookie who acquitted himself really well in limited playing time under an admittedly restricted offensive approach to... whatever he is now. Not saying he was great, but coming off 2022 I thought "solid NFL backup" was very much a high probability outcome for him. Now all of the weird stuff with Cunningham too (just figure out if he is a QB or a WR and have him practice solely that), then the Corral stuff, the different QB3 configurations, it's all been so strange at a position they've historically been super set at.
Yah- but that poster has shown he knows nothing.To be fair, at the time other people also thought Zappe looked decent last year too. Here's one take after his first start (second game) last year for example...
That's a guy who sounds a lot like a middle of pack backup quality, no?
You are likely right. I am not optimistic about Grier but I think he has a better chance of being a 2nd string vs Zappe and Cunningham. None are good options. I fully expect them to draft another guy as well as bring in a veteran. Maybe just one vs the other but definitely a change.Kind of mystified by any level of Grier optimism. He's been a third-stringer his whole career. He's only been allowed to throw passes in NFL games twice; both were four years ago, and both 30-point blowout losses. We picked him off the scrap heap, and to the scrap heap he will one day return.
Corral was the guy I thought had real potential.You are likely right. I am not optimistic about Grier but I think he has a better chance of being a 2nd string vs Zappe and Cunningham. None are good options. I fully expect them to draft another guy as well as bring in a veteran. Maybe just one vs the other but definitely a change.
Ugh I know, right? He low-key was a very good fit for this current system and especially an inconsistent OL... c'est la vie.Corral was the guy I thought had real potential.