The Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom
- Thread starter Smiling Joe Hesketh
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1. He could have cut payroll last year at the deadline to make this year 1 post under cap, instead of under cap year
2. "Rebuilding" by finishing last in 3 of the 4 years. The top prospects fell to them Mayer/Teel. They passed on another top prospect who fell to them (PCA) in favor of a package of Yorke/Jordan. Right now, having a top 20 overall prospect in baseball would have given them more of a "rebuild" than the later two. They did the same trade last year, taking Romero underslot to get Roman Anthony. That seems to be good, even as Romero (18th after bad year)/Coffey (37th and falling) are questionable rebuilds.
Brannon and Hickey are interesting kids.
Losing two second round picks because of failing at #1 is another missed "rebuild," as is wasting $1.5 million in international free agent money ($500K for #1 above, and then losing Tony Ruiz and getting stuck with no second options).
Not trading wasting assets like Paxton/Duvall & others at the deadline also missed opportunity to "rebuild" the farm Above-replacement-level farm build for a bad team with 3 years of good picks for being bad.
Structurally, there never should have been urgency prior to '24. Is it possible Bloom isn't capable of urgency? I doubt it, but it's possible.
The most likely thing is the Red Sox just want a clean PR slate & don't want to extend Bloom prior to figuring out if he has that gear. Because what's the upside? Bloom isn't unique. They can bring in a new guy who does what Bloom does, hopefully even better, & without having been the guy who traded Mookie Betts.
This has been hashed and rehashed to death but I think this is just "agree to disagree" territory. I have no issue with "calling out stupid EEI takes". I do have an issue with people pointing out an issue with Bloom or a possible criticism, and those people getting shouted down (in a pretty disrespectful way I might add) by a contingent of posters that stays pretty consistent.
I'll say it again. I thought Bloom did a decent job. I wasn't too pro or too anti (I guess I would lean a little towards anti). But I legitimately have no idea how you could be absolutely shocked or consider it a massive demerit against ownership when the on-field product was so thoroughly mediocre consistently recently. In addition to the past trade deadlines which (with the benefit of hindsight) have been awful
4 championships in 20 years (more than any other MLB team) after not winning a single championship for 86 years suggests otherwise though. They're far from a perfectly run organization but the results speak for themselves.
Timing wise I can understand it, managers aren't usually canned early. But otherwise yeah.
It isn't really complicated. Bloom was right plenty of times. He was wrong too many times. Having seen it play out, the trade deadline approach was his last wrong one.
Yeah, no reason to at this point. Bloom had little left on his plate for 2023. No sense shaking up the dugout for two weeks
Okay, I was agreeing with you until the last sentence. What's the hit rate? None of his guys have graduated.
I don't think anyone could do what Bloom has done...but I do think anyone from that Friedman school of execs could do it. They all have roughly the same philosophy. I think Bloom's downfall (and what actually won him a lot of fans among the Red Sox faithful) was that it didn't seem like he was able to make the tough decisions and understand when it was time to trade in the prospects for big league players.
The 2022 trade deadline when he didn't get under the luxury tax, that's the fatal mistake. That set the organization back at least a year just so he could try to act like the smartest guy in the room. "I don't believe in binary buying or selling." If they get under the tax last year he might have been able to invest more money into pitching and actually signing guys for positions they've played before. Instead it was another year of misfit toys and lottery tickets.
Regarding the bolded, as one who is disappointed in this happening now, I certainly don't see it as a demerit against ownership in any way. For the same reason, I don't hold it against a typical business CEO who tables R&D projects because the current P/E ratio has gone in the wrong direction for a few quarters and is getting too many questions from shareholders. Sometimes short-term interests have to be acted upon, and Henry has made barrels of money making calls like this.
You get four years even if you do show results!
You've been waiting for this since Bloom was hired? Why?
Define a "real rebuild?" If you are referring to one that requires half a decade of losing to build your major league team you will find those in smaller markets. There is never any reason for a rebuild in todays environment by a top tier payroll team to take more than a couple years to show measurable improvement.
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That is completely fair! I can completely understand being disappointed...I don't understand being shocked and saying things like "I don't know if I can ever root for this team again"
Only argument I see for firing Cora now (if they were going to) is he seems like a pretty well-liked "player's manager" so to the extent there is going to be pouting about him leaving (and media stories siding with Cora), get it done these last two weeks and head into the offseason fresh.
Last year they were what...6th and failed miserably? So now mediocrity is acceptable because it is an improvement over abysmal?
Going to add some more numbering to your post for ease of comment...
1) '24 always made more sense, but sure, they could have.
2) They have a really good draft record these past few years in terms of how players are progressing (obviously none of it really matters until they make it to the pros). Romero only had a bad year because he had an injured back & bad BABIP luck. He had a really high line drive rate in his time with Salem. Coffey is kind of yikes, but you're never going to hit on all your guys.
3) Having 2 picks at the end of the 2nd instead of the end of the 4th would have definitely been a bit better. How much? Who knows.
4) They spent $300k of that on Chansol Lee, the 18 y/o Korean pitcher, in July, & brought in several other guys later in the process including a couple who may or may not be interesting like Deybi Salcedo. Seems to be a fine pivot considering how far in advance most of these things are done.
5) They only had a particularly good pick in '21. They could have sold at the deadline the last 2 years...& probably would have in a different market, but it would go against the needle-threading plan. I don't think ownership has ever been comfortable with the appearance of giving up. I think if given unfettered permission to sell, Bloom would have sold, but who knows?
Either way, hopefully the next guy will be even better at the things Bloom was good at, & much better in the areas where Bloom did not have great results.
I think that is the most likely answer. Bloom was probably decent at what he was hired to do and is, for arguments sake, the best at what he does. This isn’t 2001. The world is smaller as is the baseball world. Building a team setup to win year after year takes luck, years of losing or disruptive thought. My guess is the reason that they ultimately decided to move on was that he didn’t present enough disruptive thinking that would create a competitive advantage in a world where that advantage is now razor thin.
It means timid or indecisive.
An example of someone not being gun shy is Dombrowski going to get Sale. He looked at a stacked minor league system and went out and got the piece that he wanted. In a perfect world we have a GM that can balance those two things and make perfect decisions. Dombrowski was too aggressive. Bloom was too tentative.
What was the phrase that Epstein stated (I believe he was quoting his father), "Don't be afraid to be bold".
Bloom sat on the fence for the last two trade deadlines and arguably the last offseason as well. Fan's didn't like it seems the ownership group agreed with the bulk of the fan base. I don't think Bloom was the worst GM/Baseball Ops guy in the league, I think he was a very average executive.
The timing is surprising. The firing is not. Last place two years in a row and no significant trade deadline activity, one way or another.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Cora.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Cora.
Two pieces of data with respect to Chaim that are relevant - and I manage people and this gets over looked.
1. What did Bloom tell Henry with respect to reasonable expectations with respect to '22 and '23? We don't know this and probably will never know - but if Bloom in two consecutive seasons didn't meet expectations that Bloom himself set that is very relevant.
2. We have no idea what the possible trades were at the deadline. It is virtually impossible to know how Bloom did without understanding what was feasible. Again Henry may have better information about this.
I have long thought DD was fired because Henry couldn't trust his judgement and was mad he had the highest payroll in baseball, had won 84 games and DD wanted even MORE money to sign Betts. My guess is DD predicted none of that - and Henry concluded he could not trust DD's payroll management.
When trust in an employee is gone it is impossible to really go forward.
1. What did Bloom tell Henry with respect to reasonable expectations with respect to '22 and '23? We don't know this and probably will never know - but if Bloom in two consecutive seasons didn't meet expectations that Bloom himself set that is very relevant.
2. We have no idea what the possible trades were at the deadline. It is virtually impossible to know how Bloom did without understanding what was feasible. Again Henry may have better information about this.
I have long thought DD was fired because Henry couldn't trust his judgement and was mad he had the highest payroll in baseball, had won 84 games and DD wanted even MORE money to sign Betts. My guess is DD predicted none of that - and Henry concluded he could not trust DD's payroll management.
When trust in an employee is gone it is impossible to really go forward.
His first draft wasn't really long enough ago to have guys graduated. But his guys are in the top 100 lists and at AA. Basically the Portland lineup is his guys, and his first draft was a little over 3 year ago.
The bolded is completely fair. JM3 basically said the same thing. It's not a unique skill set.
One, possibly understated, element of this are the behind the scenes elements Bloom was also at least partially in charge of, that the Sox development system had really been bulked up / improved on and the results seemed positive
Red Sox building up staff to compete in the next frontier of MLB’s arms race - The Athletic
Without full quoting a paywall article, the Sox baseball ops and front office staff grew dramatically from 2019 to 2023 - analytics development that slagged in the 2010s, R&D quadrupling in staff size, substantially bulking up the front office to minor league pipeline and development teams, defined minor league coordinators - they've also been using data to promote a more aggressive prospect development strategy which is seemingly paying early dividends with prospects performing better and moving more quickly through the system. I am hoping the bathwater of that doesn't go out with the baby.
Red Sox building up staff to compete in the next frontier of MLB’s arms race - The Athletic
Without full quoting a paywall article, the Sox baseball ops and front office staff grew dramatically from 2019 to 2023 - analytics development that slagged in the 2010s, R&D quadrupling in staff size, substantially bulking up the front office to minor league pipeline and development teams, defined minor league coordinators - they've also been using data to promote a more aggressive prospect development strategy which is seemingly paying early dividends with prospects performing better and moving more quickly through the system. I am hoping the bathwater of that doesn't go out with the baby.
Don't understand this logic. Do we think he's incapable of hiring big-name FAs or has a problem negotiating with the big agents? If not, we should have rehired the guy that rebuilt the system without Astros/Orioles/Tigers-level tanking.
And I haven't read as much of this thread as you probably have but is the tenor that it's his fault for trading Mookie instead of ownership's?
Sure, I just don't usually see people talking about "hitting on picks" based on their prospect rankings, that's all.
I'm truly shocked. I think it was warranted, but I'm truly shocked it happened.
That said, it's going to be really interesting to see what they do.
The feeling I get today is similar to that of the Punto trade in 2012. Next year is going to look completely different because what has been happening wasn't providing success in terms of wins and losses at the major league level. Now it's time to see if what we end up with is better (2013) or worse.
One thing is for sure, the off-season just got a whole heck of a lot more unpredictable and fascinating.
That said, it's going to be really interesting to see what they do.
The feeling I get today is similar to that of the Punto trade in 2012. Next year is going to look completely different because what has been happening wasn't providing success in terms of wins and losses at the major league level. Now it's time to see if what we end up with is better (2013) or worse.
One thing is for sure, the off-season just got a whole heck of a lot more unpredictable and fascinating.
Yeah, I don't buy it. There's a modest hit for getting 4th round instead of 2nd round picks for Xander and Eovaldi ("worth" a couple million, according to draft pick value studies). But the Sox didn't exceed the luxury tax in 2020 or 2021. 2023 or 2024 was likely to be a reset year regardless, so 2022 didn't especially matter much.
Moreover, if the on-field results from ownership-imposed austerity, largely from inherited financial constraints, were so harsh, why is that on Bloom and not JWH?
It's possible that none have graduated yet because Chaim was drafting a lot of HS kids. And there is a bunch of IFA kids who are signed as teenagers.
Graduation day takes a bit longer for that group.
That's a statement that every team that's going to hedge at the deadline makes. It sounds good but it rarely works.
This is a very fair post and I thought that article was awesome (read it when it came out)...
But again...isn't this what is now expected from the Friedman school of execs? Not sure who follows college football on the main board but I would equate it to the Nick Saban school of coaches. You know they are going to ask for the "Saban way" when they are hired (bulked up supporting staff, various "football only" things, ability to raise funds for certain things).
The question is, can they hire a Friedman exec who can do what Bloom did with regards to beefing up the minors but also get better at the MLB level? JWH seems to think he can and I think it's a pretty good bet
This is a good companion piece to it
Armed with data, Red Sox putting prospects in tough situations to make them grow - The Athletic
Now, Drohan could turn out to be nothing. He got shellacked in AAA this year after showing some great promise in AA and he is 24 - but it's an interesting read to the overall theory.
Thanks.
Which is why the relative successes of Bello, Houck, Whitlock, Crawford, et al. are at least partly attributable to the Bloom FO.
Interesting - but one question I have - what did their own analytics say about how good they were?
The big question (which the far more rational minds here have fallen on and I haven't because I'm a nutjob) is who that person is really. If they hire a Friedman exec or someone who continues this pathway, I would hope that continues. The Sox have both "continued the trend" and done full 180s with hires like this, so I think the name we see will say a lot.
The more I think about this, the more I wonder if Mookie’s recent trip to Fenway set this in motion. Bring someone else in with Bloom’s basic skill set but without the Mookie baggage. And ownership can subtly use him as a Mookie scapegoat to try to deflect it away from them.
Hey, it’s a theory.
Hey, it’s a theory.
Pretty sure. More sure if they replace Bloom from outside the organization
I want to know more about @Ale Xander ‘s sheep, though
what does TB12 know about baseball?
Yeah, I've said the same thing a couple times. It just makes all the sense in the world from a PR perspective to bring in a new person. I just hope they plan on continuing on this path with someone from the Braves/Dodgers school & not go & do something realllllly stupid & detrimental to the future.
I met Chaim Bloom last year, when the Sox flew me in to interview for a brand-new front office position that was Bloom's brainchild. I won't divulge the details of that position except to say that I was very impressed with how forward-thinking that position was, and showed that he was thinking seriously about entrenching long-term success for the Sox, far beyond the usual lifespan of a GM. Unfortunately, of course, the short term also matters.
This is good. Other than payroll targets (a big thing, I know), I do think JWH & Co. give Bloom free reign. Bloom *probably* told JWH that "*these* actions should lead to *these* results." Apparently they didn't.
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