The Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom
- Thread starter Smiling Joe Hesketh
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Sure. So why didn't they offer it again in the 2022 off-season?
Overall though, this is 100% a smear job. It may be a truthful one, but it's very much someone on the Sox talking to a reporter and painting a negative picture of what happened. That should probably be kept in mind instead of assuming that it's completely factually correct.
You're absolutely right, coming out at a very convenient time.
I would point out that they did sign DeGrom that off-season and they may have revisited talks if they missed on him.
EDITED: To the larger part, I don't think it really matters because as someone else pointed out, we don't know that ownership would have ended up letting him the savings to sign SP in the 22 off-season. Just wish casting on our part.
They signed Eovaldi as well. They were clearly still very much hunting for starters.
Sorry, I was not clear. I wasn't responding to that post in particular. Just a general sense of things.
See - I think what the Sox did was actually the norm, and a team would only depart from this if they were in all-hands-on-deck, win-now-or-else mode. Most teams aren't going to toss a useful player off of the 40-man, tie up a spot on the 40-man for the offseason (when you might want to protect someone for Rule 5), and start a young player's service clock (or burn an option year) for a marginal upgrade at a backup position. The cost just isn't worth the meager payoff. Even for a team in the midst of a window, the GM has to think about the future at least a little bit.
The only GM I can think of who regularly did that was Jack Zduriencik - and I mostly remember that because of the screeds on the USS Mariner blog after he would cast off another useful player for little gain.
Carrabis verified this through the Rangers - not the Sox. Bloom definitely misjudged Sale’s ability to contribute to the 2023 team and beyond. That extra money would look very nice heading into the off-season, regardless of prospect return.
It really makes me wonder, how many other ownership groups play the 'leak something to media to throw the outgoing guy under the bus' card? And why wouldn't ownership step in and say something about that potential trade if it was an actual thing? I don't buy Henry & Co. not having any thoughts on it or not having it ran by them when that much salary is involved.
If the story came from the Rangers, hard to blame Henry & Co from leaking it.
A number of people here were less than enthused by Chaim's trade deadline moves (or lack thereof). It was one of his weaknesses, especially as it left the Sox marginally and needlessly over the tax threshold last season. He was given the leeway to operate his way the last 2 deadlines, and now he is being held accountable for it. So the news reports don't seem like "leaks" from the ownership group; seems like reporters were doing some checking on their own for once.
A number of people here were less than enthused by Chaim's trade deadline moves (or lack thereof). It was one of his weaknesses, especially as it left the Sox marginally and needlessly over the tax threshold last season. He was given the leeway to operate his way the last 2 deadlines, and now he is being held accountable for it. So the news reports don't seem like "leaks" from the ownership group; seems like reporters were doing some checking on their own for once.
How did Carrabis know to call the Rangers?
Also really fishy that a guy who essentially a mouthpiece for the team is breaking this, as opposed to an actual reporter like Speier, Bradford or McAdam.
Bradford reported the same trade as being on the table.
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bloom-red-sox-turned-010614900.html
Two Athletic reporters reported the same thing this morning, I can’t remember who it was and I’m not looking it up right now. I don’t think this was created out of thin air.
Let’s not pretend that Bloom didn’t make any mistakes at all in his four years here, it’s why he’s not the CoBO in Boston any more. Did he do everything wrong? Of course not but he obviously screwed up enough to have pissed his bosses off.
I get it though. Much like when Mookie was sent packing, it sucks when your guy has to leave Fenway.
Two things can be true here: 1. Bloom blew some pretty significant decisions during his time here, which— well, that's a reason to fire someone 2. The Sox are shivving him out the door. One doesn't cancel out the other.
Shivving someone with True Stuff is usually the best way to do it. And the Sox ownership are some of the best at shivving people on their way out.
I love that the Bloomers are still defending him. If he was so good at his job, he’d still be employed. Unless you 100% believe that FSG hired him to do exactly what he did and then planned on canning him the whole time. But I personally can’t buy that argument, given how the last two trade deadlines have gone.
Can the Passan piece be construed as Chaim using the media to take control of the narrative and divert blame do ownership, then?
I think it's pretty clear that Bloom did some really good things. & some things that aren't great. I think he set the franchise up nicely for future success overall, but I can 100% understand for several reasons it's better to get a new guy to keep the ball rolling & take the next leap.
A lot of the arguments & complaints against Bloom are still ridiculous & unfounded, but there are absolutely valid criticisms, particularly inflexibility.
& if the new reports are true regarding other teams hating working with him & an insane refusal to move on from Sale, it's an even easier decision.
Even without that stuff, though, it really does make sense to move on from a guy associated with so many negative fan memories, even if he was better at that stuff than it appears he was, because his skillset isn't unique.
Bring in a new smart guy from an org that does things the right way like the Braves or Dodgers & allow the collective angst to dissipate.
I think that 90% of those you call "Bloomers" are sort of "eh" about Bloom, but dislike mouthbreathing on principle. This site having cut it's teeth on analytics - trying to see what's actually there instead of just being tribal.
Unfortunately games aren’t won and lost on spreadsheets. They are won on an actual field. And you can f right off with the mouth breathing stuff. It’s this high horse, fan purity nonsense that has been going on for the last few years here that leads to animosity against the pro-Bloom posters.
Like I said, I think most of the folks here who get labeled "Bloomers" see that Bloom had pros and cons, and nobody's going to fling themselves out of a window over his being fired. But if one is going to criticize (or praise) the guy, one really ought to try to base it in fact, not mouth-breathing emotion.
That said. . .how would you characterize your response here?
Since we are just throwing out our opinions out here on this, I completely disagree with the premise of 90%. Maybe 50% but 90% is definitely way, way too high.
And F’s funny that you throw out “just being tribal” at the end there. I would say that most of the “Bloomers” are incredibly tribal
Absolutely. All sides use the media as mouthpieces to get out some of their agenda. It’s not only the big, bad Red Sox ownership
I’ll do that as soon as you name the 10% of the posters you deem the “Bloomers”
This is a great post. The one thing that seems to be a repeated theme from respected reporters is Bloom’s inflexibility and trying to be perfect.
If he truly had an offer to get rid of Sale and his entire contract in addition to getting prospects and actually haggled over the level of prospect…my god
And I think most of the folks who get labeled “mouth breathers” aren’t 100% anti-Bloom and want a strong pipeline but also want to see actual results on the major league field instead of just hopes and dreams on prospects to come.
That said… how would you characterize your response here?
Agreed. I’m fairly ambivalent about Bloom, but it’s really disappointing to know he had the chance to shed that contract and didn’t do it.
I think it's pretty clear that ownership wanted (1) Bloom to deal Mookie and cut payroll so that they were under the luxury tax threshold, (2) build up the farm system so that the team could have long-term, constant success, and (3) compete for the playoffs every year.
Clearly (1) and (2) have been largely achieved. But man, number (3) wasn't good, so see ya Bloom.
Jared Carrabis is the single biggest social media personality in all of baseball. He has plenty of sources all over the league.
I can think of maybe 2, but I'm not entirely sure about them, since I know they've criticized some of Bloom's moves.
And that's the thing - there are a few people who will explain the potential upsides and downsides of Bloom doing X or Y. But I can't think of anyone who has ever argued all his moves have been successful or that Bloom should try to repeat his 2022 or 2023.
But I think there are a lot of people on this site who can't distinguish between those two things. Like if you try to figure out what Bloom's plan is, you therefore approve of it or something. Like the spreadsheet comment above.
The next step for this org is to either promote the prospects or trade them for major league talent. Given the holes in the line up, it seems fairly obvious that this requires someone who can make the right trades and that JWH and Co. didn’t think that Bloom is the right guy to maximize the value coming back to Boston. It would have been great if he had, as his work in restocking the farm has been both savvy and taking good fortune and doing the right thing with it. That just hasn’t translated in loading up the major league roster.
He’s basically the running back who took it to the outside but hasn’t shown he can turn the corner.
He’s basically the running back who took it to the outside but hasn’t shown he can turn the corner.
Ah yes only the enlightened fully understand. Folks here will hand waive away games lost to injury as not Bloom’s fault when he signed guys who are very injury prone or literally had injuries before they signed like Story.
Or folks who view Paxton as a feather in Bloom’s cap because he played for cheap money this year who also ignore that we paid him $10m last year to not throw a single pitch for the Red Sox and could have walked for nothing but felt obligated to give the Red Sox something. So kudos to Paxton.
And look maybe the prospects he got for Renfroe didnt work out but Renfroe wasn’t great. Oh wait we also took on JBJs contract. Ooops. Huge value there.
Fair enough. Though I’m not sure why a Rangers source is coming out today and telling the world, “Bloom‘s indecision saved us from a horrible mistake!”
Because the Rangers don’t have to deal with Bloom any more and there’s already a pigpile on him and there’s nothing these washwomen love more than a good pigpile.
This is the same point I made yesterday. Arguing against dumbfuckery aimed at Bloom isn't the same as being a "Bloomer". I'm pretty agnostic on the guy, overall. But the Usual Suspects screeching about Mookie Betts have become an embarrassment to themselves, and - more importantly - to the perception of SoSH being "better than that."
No, I really do want to know. What do you actually think about Bloom.
Not what you think other people think about Bloom (which seems to be a thing with you) but what you think about Bloom. Put yourself out there like everyone else does. Use some numbers. Live a little.
Yes. And I'm sure most of the "Bloomers" will be accused of being "Whateverers" when the same cycle repeats itself with the next GM.
I’ve probably been one of the loudest pro Bloom people in this thread and even I’ve outright criticized his pitching staff composition, questioned his ability to acquire premium talent, and guffawed at the Sale trade story (given the two sources I’m inclined to believe the broad strokes). I just feel like a lot of the critical thinking often present here outright disappears in this discussion.
Just look at my posts it’s all there. I think Bloom drafted really well. I think he’s way too into hoping oft-injured players somehow stay healthy. I think for guy who was supposedly tasked with being frugal he wasted a good chunk of money on guys like JBJ and a rehabbing James Paxton last year.
You want numbers? Just look at the team’s record under his tenure. I’ll give him a pass on 2020. I think they were mostly medicore in 2021 and got hot at the right time and I think 2022 and 2023 were extremely disappointing. He had a chance to build the pipeline while building the major league roster into a contender and failed at the last part so he’s gone. I wasn’t anti-Bloom so much as anti posters who think they view the game at such a higher level than the rest of us because we weren’t sold on Bloom.
It’s true. I challenged Mookie Betts to 12 frames of bowling and bowled a 400 so he signed the deal in LA out of spite. Then I did a spinarooni
Here's the thing. You are walking a line that might be accurate for you in terms of moderation. But it's pretty clear which side of that line you're considering "wrong."
Bottom line, we are a reflection of our society. We're in a shitty place where if you seek middle ground your labeled by either side or both. Yer either fer us or agin us. I've been accused of blindly following Bloom and I've had someone post that I'm clearly rooting for him to fail. And it's not just the labeling, DMs we're once away to discuss disagreements in a private, often civil way as not to derail threads. But now....Today it seems acceptable to initiate contact with "Fuck Off. If you have a beef with me, put me on ignore". We are a reflection of our society.
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