Trade for Dame?

[kazuneko]

So, looks like Lillard is going to be traded and the Cs could be a possible destination. Dame has supposedly said he doesn’t want to play for Boston but it seems highly unlikely he’d refuse to report if Portland were to ignore this concern.
So the big question is does a Lillard trade give the Cs the best chance at banner 18 in the coming year, and if it does is Dame’s price tag worth it?

Edit: Can't seem to edit the poll questions. Apologies for the typos, but posted from my phone. At the end of the first option it should say "salary filler, three future first round picks and additional pick swaps/second round picks for Damian Lillard", which is a lot more to give up than just the players listed and whatever "salar" is. I guess you aren't able to adjust poll questions after they are posted but it would be nice if a mod could fix this error (if you can't eliminate the "salar" option at least adding the originally intended option as one of the choices).

 

[RorschachsMask]

I think Dame ends up getting his way and ends up in Miami. That said, I’m one of the people who would be willing to move Jaylen for him. That top 3 is absurd offensively, and Dame having Rob, KP, and Tatum’s length behind him would mask the poor point of attack defense.

I also don’t blame anyone who wouldn’t be willing to do that move, we all want the same thing, just different ideas of how to go about it.

Lillard
White
Tatum
Porzingis
Rob

Horford
Grant
Hauser
Brissett
Pritchard
Vet signings.

would be pretty insane.

 

[Kliq]

I love Dame, love his style of play and his confidence. Easily one of my favorite players to watch.

The Celtics shouldn't trade for him unless its for like, a ridiculously bargain price that they won't be able to get. He makes an absurd amount of money, he's 33, and is a high-volume small guard with defensive limitations.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1675898812961890306?s=20

NBACentral

@TheNBACentral
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There remains a strong belief a deal to Miami remains the most likely outcome for Damian Lillard, per @ShamsCharania

Rival teams are hesitant to offer a compelling package without assurance that Lillard would be happy to join them.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I would say that this is a test of Tatum’s gravitational pull, but Dame has seemingly been set on Miami for a while.

 

[Auger34]

If the offer doesn’t include White, Jaylen or Tatum then I say go for it….once any of those 3 are involved, not interested.

Dame has severe defensive limitations. I think that the C’s would be good but also very vulnerable to certain types of players and teams.

It also seems like Dame has no interest in coming to Boston. I definitely wouldn’t trade a haul for someone that doesn’t want to be on the team

 

[Cellar-Door]

On the assumption my owner has told me he has no ceiling on the tax he'll pay for the next 3-4 years, and I know Dame is willing to come in and play... yeah, all of those.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

I voted no because I'm more comfortable signing Jaylen now that Porzingis is onboard since he seems to be the perfect complement to the Jays. I'm all not that interested in decimating the team's depth and defense* for a 33 year old smallish guard, even if he's one of the best offensive players in the league. I think the team with KP, assuming Jaylen signs, should already be the East favorites, and without completely hamstringing the future if things with Dame don't work out.

*assuming you'd have to move White and/or Rob at minimum

 

[benhogan]

Yea, Brogdon/TL + filler. Gas the Duck Boats

BUT how much in draft capital? If it's ALL of our picks/swaps and then it's a No Thanks.

 

[Auger34]

This is the offer that Bernardoni came up with. I am a pretty firm “No F’ing Way” on this one…and I think I am lower on Brogdon than most here.


For those who can’t see the tweet the Celtics trade Brogdon, Jaylen and a 1st for Lillard (he includes Grant Williams in it for some reason but I don’t know what he has to do with it)

View: https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1675899740213346304?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA

 

[Buck Showalter]

I think Dame ends up getting his way and ends up in Miami. That said, I’m one of the people who would be willing to move Jaylen for him. That top 3 is absurd offensively, and Dame having Rob, KP, and Tatum’s length behind him would mask the poor point of attack defense.

I also don’t blame anyone who wouldn’t be willing to do that move, we all want the same thing, just different ideas of how to go about it.

Lillard
White
Tatum
Porzingis
Rob

Horford
Grant
Hauser
Brissett
Pritchard
Vet signings.

would be pretty insane.

This is where I am.

If we are going to lose Jaylen --- I'll take Dame.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Once again, a crucial piece of information is whether Jaylen is willing to extend or not.

If its the latter they may be going all in. Dame likely still winds up in Miami.

 

[moondog80]

This is the offer that Bernardoni came up with. I am a pretty firm “No F’ing Way” on this one…and I think I am lower on Brogdon than most here.


For those who can’t see the tweet the Celtics trade Brogdon, Jaylen and a 1st for Lillard (he includes Grant Williams in it for some reason but I don’t know what he has to do with it)

View: https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1675899740213346304?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA

Am I reading that right that the Cs give up Jaylen, Brogdon, and a 1st for Dame?

Uh, no. I wouldn't do Jaylen for Dame straight up.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Including Brown is a non-starter.

 

[Auger34]

Am I reading that right that the Cs give up Jaylen, Brogdon, and a 1st for Dame?

Uh, no. I wouldn't do Jaylen for Dame straight up.

Correct. I think that’s an absolutely awful deal for Boston

 

[benhogan]

Am I reading that right that the Cs give up Jaylen, Brogdon, and a 1st for Dame?

Uh, no. I wouldn't do Jaylen for Dame straight up.

Agreed.

Unless Jaylen turns down a Boston extension (which is highly unlikely)

Then the Bernadoni trade moves JB/Brogdon both to the West

 

[cheech13]

Am I reading that right that the Cs give up Jaylen, Brogdon, and a 1st for Dame?

Uh, no. I wouldn't do Jaylen for Dame straight up.

This is why it’s hard to construct deals. As a Blazers fan I’d be extremely disappointed if the return on the best player in franchise history is one year of Jaylen Brown, but I can understand why Boston would be hesitant just based on their timeline and roster construction.

 

[Kliq]

This is why it’s hard to construct deals. As a Blazers fan I’d be extremely disappointed if the return on the best player in franchise history is one year of Jaylen Brown, but I can understand why Boston would be hesitant just based on their timeline and roster construction.

Walton (peak) and Drexler (two finals) have got to be the best players in Blazer history, right?

 

[BigSoxFan]

This is the offer that Bernardoni came up with. I am a pretty firm “No F’ing Way” on this one…and I think I am lower on Brogdon than most here.


For those who can’t see the tweet the Celtics trade Brogdon, Jaylen and a 1st for Lillard (he includes Grant Williams in it for some reason but I don’t know what he has to do with it)

View: https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1675899740213346304?s=46&t=Yv-0viabFQl7Lk7DrSRbBA

This trade is unrealistic but Houston does seem like a possibility given all their picks and young talent. They also signed FVV and probably would like another adult to pair with him. Between Jabari Smith, Amen Thompson, Jalen Green, Sengun and their picks from the Nets, they have young players/picks to deal.

Was Jaylen pro-Ime? I can’t remember but that may be a situation he’d be ok with.

 

[Ale Xander]

I would have liked a Lillard Smart backcourt even if small (if we could have kept ROb too)

Trading White/Brgdon and anyone and anything other than Rob/KP/Smart/Jays

Doesn';t make sense right now I dont think. Lillard is an improvement over Brgodon but not enough since Jays will need shots and he's not really improvement over a Tatum shot. . Lillard makes more sense on a team that needs offense more (Portland, Miami etc)

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Figure this would be useful. There are almost certainly no "right" answers here but Dame is unquestionably the best player being discussed here. And by a decent margin when you consider the sustained performance thus far.

 

[Ale Xander]

Walton (peak) and Drexler (two finals) have got to be the best players in Blazer history, right?

Definitely Drexler.

Walton better on one year, but I'm not going to argue with someone that says Lillard had a better Blazer career than Walton.

Drexler, I WOULD argue, was better than Lillard.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Walton (peak) and Drexler (two finals) have got to be the best players in Blazer history, right?

Greg Oden and Sam Bowie.

 

[Ale Xander]

Greg Oden and Sam Bowie.

You forgot Brandon Roy

 

[BigSoxFan]

I would have liked a Lillard Smart backcourt even if small (if we could have kept ROb too)

Trading White/Brgdon and anyone and anything other than Rob/KP/Smart/Jays

Doesn';t make sense right now I dont think. Lillard is an improvement over Brgodon but not enough since Jays will need shots and he's not really improvement over a Tatum shot. . Lillard makes more sense on a team that needs offense more (Portland, Miami etc)

I think if Dame is here, Jaylen is not so the shots issue isn’t a concern for me. I think the Celtics would really benefit from a guard who can create offense off the dribble. That is obviously Dame’s game. I think he helps this offense like a non-crazy Kyrie…except now Tatum is a more mature top 5-10 player.

I find a 3 man core of JT, KP, and Dame to be quite intriguing. The pick and pop game would be tremendous.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I would have liked a Lillard Smart backcourt even if small (if we could have kept ROb too)

Trading White/Brgdon and anyone and anything other than Rob/KP/Smart/Jays

Doesn';t make sense right now I dont think. Lillard is an improvement over Brgodon but not enough since Jays will need shots and he's not really improvement over a Tatum shot. . Lillard makes more sense on a team that needs offense more (Portland, Miami etc)

I think this part is insane. Lillard is a great playmaker, he'll create shots for the Jays (and creating their own is not the best skill of either, particularly Jaylen), and he's excellent at running late-game offense where our current group piss down their legs.

Dame is a huge improvement on Brogdon, he'd be a very close 1B to Tatum, he's on a totally different tier as a player than Brown for example.

Sure you need to factor in that he's a poor defender, but he's one of the best offensive players of the last 10 years (and I mean top 3-5) and it's not just about his shots, he creates, he opens space, etc.

Edit- also I think long term you would move Jaylen anyway for $ reasons.

 

[BaseballJones]

My question with a Tatum-Lillard pairing is this: Clearly Tatum wants to be the guy to take the big shots at the end. Sometimes he gets doubled and he really can't take the shot, but also clearly it's always designed for him.

But Lillard is really, really good in those situations and is also totally used to being the guy to take those shots. You'd think that two high level professionals could figure it out, but it wouldn't be the first (or last) time in NBA history that two mega stars would have trouble figuring out who is the Man and who is THE MAN.

 

[bsj]

My question with a Tatum-Lillard pairing is this: Clearly Tatum wants to be the guy to take the big shots at the end. Sometimes he gets doubled and he really can't take the shot, but also clearly it's always designed for him.

But Lillard is really, really good in those situations and is also totally used to being the guy to take those shots. You'd think that two high level professionals could figure it out, but it wouldn't be the first (or last) time in NBA history that two mega stars would have trouble figuring out who is the Man and who is THE MAN.

I'd be more excited about the proposition of opposing D's figuring that out

 

[BigSoxFan]

My question with a Tatum-Lillard pairing is this: Clearly Tatum wants to be the guy to take the big shots at the end. Sometimes he gets doubled and he really can't take the shot, but also clearly it's always designed for him.

But Lillard is really, really good in those situations and is also totally used to being the guy to take those shots. You'd think that two high level professionals could figure it out, but it wouldn't be the first (or last) time in NBA history that two mega stars would have trouble figuring out who is the Man and who is THE MAN.

Tatum doesn’t seem to have the alpha dog personality where that would be a problem, IMO. Would be plenty of end game shots for the both of them and I’d expect them to share top dog status like LeBron/Wade while KP fills the Bosh role.

 

[astrozombie]

Pure basketball? Go get Dame, even if it means losing Brown. Dame Time solves the Cs getting tight at the end of games and there are competent defensive bench signings to be had to cover up his negative defense.
Outside of basketball? I don't think Dame wants to be in Boston and that just creates a different weird situation. FWIW I don't think JB wants to be in Boston either and if he ends up signing his extension, I can easily see him agitating in a couple of years to get traded for pennies on the dollar to a team he wants to be on. I think he ultimately ends up in Miami and all these "it's not a guarantee he goes to Miami" stories are just attempts to goose some additional assets out of the Heat.
ETA: the "he" in "he ultimately ends up in Miami" is about Dame, not JB.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Pure basketball? Go get Dame, even if it means losing Brown. Dame Time solves the Cs getting tight at the end of games and there are competent defensive bench signings to be had to cover up his negative defense.
Outside of basketball? I don't think Dame wants to be in Boston and that just creates a different weird situation. FWIW I don't think JB wants to be in Boston either and if he ends up signing his extension, I can easily see him agitating in a couple of years to get traded for pennies on the dollar to a team he wants to be on. I think he ultimately ends up in Miami and all these "it's not a guarantee he goes to Miami" stories are just attempts to goose some additional assets out of the Heat.

What additional assets do the Heat have though? That deal will always be there for the Blazers so I’d expect them to spend all summer trying to do better. There’s no need for them to commit to it any time soon…at least I hope.

 

[the moops]

This is the offer that Bernardoni came up with. I am a pretty firm “No F’ing Way” on this one…and I think I am lower on Brogdon than most here.

Seems about right, IMO.

Jaylen, Brogdon, a late first

 

[moondog80]

What additional assets do the Heat have though? That deal will always be there for the Blazers so I’d expect them to spend all summer trying to do better. There’s no need for them to commit to it any time soon…at least I hope.

If I'm Miami I try not to give the max amount of picks/swaps allowed, with zero protections. If I'm Portland I want it all. That is a likely haggling point.

 

[astrozombie]

What additional assets do the Heat have though? That deal will always be there for the Blazers so I’d expect them to spend all summer trying to do better. There’s no need for them to commit to it any time soon…at least I hope.

Very little, admittedly. But maybe the Blazers FO feels like they want to score a big win here and demonstrate they got everything they could for Dame? More seconds? idk.

 

[Auger34]

If I'm Miami I try not to give the max amount of picks/swaps allowed, with zero protections. That is a likely haggling point.

I believe Miami can only trade 2 1st rounders right now.

The Heat package is trash. There’s really no other way to put it

 

[BigSoxFan]

I believe Miami can only trade 2 1st rounders right now.

The Heat package is trash. There’s really no other way to put it

This is where I’m at. Taking the Miami deal early in the summer is basically asking to be fired. Fans won’t care months later about you making Damian happy, they’ll be looking at the shit return and will be having their Mookie Betts-esque threads on the Sons of Kevin Duckworth message board.

Odds are Celtics retain Jaylen and the biggest chess piece comes off the board. At that point, who the hell knows. Perhaps the Nets blink.

 

[Cellar-Door]

SO as a note.... I'm like 90% sure Dame goes to MIA for trash. For all the talk by POR through Woj... I would guess nobody is stepping up and actually making good offers becasue they don't want an unhappy Dame.

If I'm Portland I basically set my sights on... "will Dame change him mind in August and go to BRK?" if not... every pick MIA can trade, all with no protection, same for swaps, all their 2nds, they eat Nurkic, I get Jovic and Jacquez (hence waiting until he's trade eligible), and I make them find me landing spots for Herro and Robinson that I get at least some value from.

 

[astrozombie]

I believe Miami can only trade 2 1st rounders right now.

The Heat package is trash. There’s really no other way to put it

Succinct, to the point, correct.

 

[Auger34]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Portland holds onto Dame into the season and tries to call his bluff (a la what BKN did with Durant)

I highly doubt Lillard will actually sit out or dog it on the court. He doesn’t want to be looked at as the bad guy by the Portland faithful and I don’t think he has the ability to just completely give up out there like Harden.

 

[Auger34]

SO as a note.... I'm like 90% sure Dame goes to MIA for trash. For all the talk by POR through Woj... I would guess nobody is stepping up and actually making good offers becasue they don't want an unhappy Dame.

If I'm Portland I basically set my sights on... "will Dame change him mind in August and go to BRK?" if not... every pick MIA can trade, all with no protection, same for swaps, all their 2nds, they eat Nurkic, I get Jovic and Jacquez (hence waiting until he's trade eligible), and I make them find me landing spots for Herro and Robinson that I get at least some value from.

If I am Portland I am extracting every ounce of value I can from Miami. That means having them eat Jokic, trade Herro, Duncan Robinson AND Caleb Martin for value/things I want.

Removing Butler and Bam, Miami could trade literally every single asset or thing of value they have…and it would still be a shitty offer.

 

[the moops]

Succinct, to the point, correct.

Swaps in 2024, 2026, 2028, and 2030. Unprotected 1sts in 2027 and 2029. Herro, salary, Jovic, Highsmith.

I don't know, it's not complete trash. Those picks in 2027-2030 could be juicy

 

[Euclis20]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Portland holds onto Dame into the season and tries to call his bluff (a la what BKN did with Durant)

I highly doubt Lillard will actually sit out or dog it on the court. He doesn’t want to be looked at as the bad guy by the Portland faithful and I don’t think he has the ability to just completely give up out there like Harden.

Yeah he and his team can say whatever they want through the media to try to get him to his 1st choice, if he gets traded to a real title contender, he's gonna show up and play. He's not Harden, and he's also not Ben Simmons.

 

[bankshot1]

Are the Celts really a better team swapping JB, Brog, TL and two 1st round picks for Dame? I have my issues with Jaylen but put me in the skeptical camp.

 

[Auger34]

Swaps in 2024, 2026, 2028, and 2030. Unprotected 1sts in 2027 and 2029. Herro, salary, Jovic, Highsmith.

I don't know, it's not complete trash. Those picks in 2027-2030 could be juicy

They can’t do swaps in 24 and 26.

You are definitely on an island with the “not complete trash” opinion.

Kevin O’ Connor said that their package of Herro, Lowry, Jovic, Jacquez, and those picks would be “one of the worst trades in NBA history”

 

[BigSoxFan]

They can’t do swaps in 24 and 26.

You are definitely on an island with the “not complete trash” opinion.

Kevin O’ Connor said that their package of Herro, Lowry, Jovic, Jacquez, and those picks would be “one of the worst trades in NBA history”

If Brad made that deal for Marcus Smart, I would have hated it. Any GM making that trade will be acquiring long-term assets for his successor.

 

[InstaFace]

"None of the above" for me, because his salary is prohibitive, it would prevent us being able to re-sign Jaylen, and I believe Jaylen will be the better player (and certainly the more available player) over the duration of their respective next contracts.

Guys nobody here has yet typed out exactly how much Lillard will make on his current contract, please just read this:

2023-24 (age 33): $45.6M (+7.4% raise)
2024-25 (age 34): $48.8M (+6.9% raise)
2025-26 (age 35): $58.5M (+20.0% raise)
2026-27 (age 36): $63.2M (+8.0% raise) player option, seems preeeeeeetty likely to exercise

Is he a great player? Absolutely.

DARKO: +4.2 DPM, 10th in the NBA for projected value next season (Tatum 9th, Jaylen 33rd)
RAPTOR: +7.8, 11.5 WAR, T-7th in the NBA for value last season (Tatum 6th, Jaylen 73rd)
LEBRON: +3.73, 15th in the NBA for value last season (Tatum 7th, Jaylen 86th)

However, he mostly contributes by using possessions. He's been among the league leaders in Usage % for a while (avg over last 3 seasons is 31.9%, exactly the same as Tatum's), as a primary-option scorer on a team that lacks a plausible alternative.

Lastly, he's also had injury issues that make worries about durability greater. Last 3 years (post-bubble), games played: 67, 29, 58. He has a skillset that tends to hold up over time (outside shooting), but if his calves and ankles can't hold up, that skillset could depreciate in a hurry, and we'd be left holding the bag.

Back when we were dancing the "please let's find a star point guard" dance, if we were able to unload IT4 and get Lillard instead of Kyrie, or Lillard instead of Kemba, even if we had to give up more to get him, I'd probably have been in favor, depending on the particulars. But right now I can't see us giving up some of the best-value non-ball-dominant assets in the NBA (White or Timelord) and/or a swingman who can guard 1-5 for a marginally better offensive player, and accept downgrades to damn-near-replacement value at those other positions. And also give up 3 1st-round picks and the opportunity cost of what else they could have brought us. There's just no way that makes us better, as a team - and that's before we get into the impossibility of paying his contract, and Tatum's supermax, and also being able to build a contending roster after paying both of those.

Not seeing it.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Kevin O’ Connor said that their package of Herro, Lowry, Jovic, Jacquez, and those picks would be “one of the worst trades in NBA history”

It's way more than what the 'Zards got for Beal. LOL!

 

[Smokey Joe]

"None of the above" for me, because his salary is prohibitive, it would prevent us being able to re-sign Jaylen, and I believe Jaylen will be the better player (and certainly the more available player) over the duration of their respective next contracts.

Guys nobody here has yet typed out exactly how much Lillard will make on his current contract, please just read this:

2023-24 (age 33): $45.6M (+7.4% raise)
2024-25 (age 34): $48.8M (+6.9% raise)
2025-26 (age 35): $58.5M (+20.0% raise)
2026-27 (age 36): $63.2M (+8.0% raise) player option, seems preeeeeeetty likely to exercise

Is he a great player? Absolutely.

DARKO: +4.2 DPM, 10th in the NBA for projected value next season (Tatum 9th, Jaylen 33rd)
RAPTOR: +7.8, 11.5 WAR, T-7th in the NBA for value last season (Tatum 6th, Jaylen 73rd)
LEBRON: +3.73, 15th in the NBA for value last season (Tatum 7th, Jaylen 86th)

However, he mostly contributes by using possessions. He's been among the league leaders in Usage % for a while (avg over last 3 seasons is 31.9%, exactly the same as Tatum's), as a primary-option scorer on a team that lacks a plausible alternative.

Back when we were dancing the "please let's find a star point guard" dance, if we were able to unload IT4 and get Lillard instead of Kyrie, or Lillard instead of Kemba, even if we had to give up more to get him, I'd probably have been in favor, depending on the particulars. But right now I can't see us giving up some of the best-value non-ball-dominant assets in the NBA (White or Timelord) and/or a swingman who can guard 1-5 for a marginally better offensive player, and accept downgrades to damn-near-replacement value at those other positions. And also give up 3 1st-round picks and the opportunity cost of what else they could have brought us. There's just no way that makes us better, as a team - and that's before we get into the impossibility of paying his contract, and Tatum's supermax, and also being able to build a contending roster after paying both of those.

Not seeing it.

This is exactly the reason I said no. You were quicker at looking up his salary numbers then I was.

 

[Auger34]

It's way more than what the 'Zards got for Beal. LOL!

I’m guessing he’s grading on a curve here since Beal had the NTC but Lillard doesn’t

 

[Cellar-Door]

It's way more than what the 'Zards got for Beal. LOL!

Lillard is.... Like 10x the player Beal is