Vince Wilfork: new 3 year deal for $22.5m to stay with Patriots
- Thread starter bsj
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Is his wife still his agent? Could be part of the problem here. This is dumb, and sad, but probably best for the team.
I doubt they bid for Hatcher, Melton, Raji--but are Siliga, Kelly, Jones,& Vellano enough? I agree maybe go after DE. But Jared Allen wanted that Ware contract. Kind of pricey. Peppers might be less.
One thing--Revis fills the leadership vacuum
One thing--Revis fills the leadership vacuum
He wasn't getting 12M from the Pats either that was his cap number but his salary is 7.5M. That's the number they are negotiating from. The rest is already in his pocket.Ed Hillel said:
Who knows what the Pats were offering but I doubt it was much different than the 1 yr 5M make good deal mentioned up thread. May even have been less.
Maybe when/if they cut him and Vince sees the offers out there he comes back to the Pats. But it often seems like guys would rather take less elsewhere than take a big pay cut from their current team.
I really feel Big Vince burnt himself out playing every down (as opposed to 1st and 2nd/ obvious running downs) in 2010,2011,2012.
Those defenses needed him and he stepped up. They would have been (even more) atrocious without him.
But he was too expensive.
Those defenses needed him and he stepped up. They would have been (even more) atrocious without him.
But he was too expensive.
I just want this to not get ugly.
I love Vince, and if he feels that he doesnt deserve a paycut, I am fine with him requesting his release. He has every right to do so, and is NOT obligated to accept a restructure.
That said, I will lose a ton of respect for him if he or his SO begin talking sh*t about how "he deserved X" and has given too much to the franchise to take a paycut blah blah blah.
No one has dont more for this team than #12.
I love Vince, and if he feels that he doesnt deserve a paycut, I am fine with him requesting his release. He has every right to do so, and is NOT obligated to accept a restructure.
That said, I will lose a ton of respect for him if he or his SO begin talking sh*t about how "he deserved X" and has given too much to the franchise to take a paycut blah blah blah.
No one has dont more for this team than #12.
Assuming Vince is granted his release, what is their available cap space? Felger and Mazz report it is $5.5M; my math (based on a potentially unreliable table found via the google) says it is around $17M.
Thanks for everything Vince, but there are better ways to spend that money.
Thanks for everything Vince, but there are better ways to spend that money.
lambeau said:
That crew of defensive tackles is uninspiring, but significantly less concerning if we bolster the line at end. Plus there's reason for a little hope between Armstead and the draft. I do think they need to make at least one signing on the line, though, and as much as Allen is probably the right guy for the Pats, I agree the money probably won't work.
Well the tweet few days ago about a wild ride in Fox proved accurate.
Don't feel bad for Vince; there is no room for sentiment with the cap. Just be happy that he took a firm line with the Pats a few years back and got a worthy contract. He was wise to look out for himself cause the team certainly won't . He knew this day would come.
Don't feel bad for Vince; there is no room for sentiment with the cap. Just be happy that he took a firm line with the Pats a few years back and got a worthy contract. He was wise to look out for himself cause the team certainly won't . He knew this day would come.
My all-time favorite Patriot. It'll be sad to see him go.
For all the good fortune that Brady has brought to this franchise, Wilfork never got the recognition he deserved. He was a quiet leader that did things right and never put his ego in front of the team. He was willing to put his own personal stats aside to do what was needed by the team. It's unfortunate he isn't doing one last solid for the team, but I can't say that I blame him and, truthfully, this is probably for the best anyway.
For all the good fortune that Brady has brought to this franchise, Wilfork never got the recognition he deserved. He was a quiet leader that did things right and never put his ego in front of the team. He was willing to put his own personal stats aside to do what was needed by the team. It's unfortunate he isn't doing one last solid for the team, but I can't say that I blame him and, truthfully, this is probably for the best anyway.
fairlee76 said:
As posted by RO:
Miguel@PatsCap.Com @patscap 2m
Figuring 900K cap hit for Hooman, have #Pats with 17,392,834 in cap space. Number includes Revis signing and anticipates Wilfork's release
I love Vince but I don't see him getting anything other than a 1 year prove it deal. I hope his agent isn't screwing him.
Until / unless details emerge that the Pats only wanted him to take a pay cut and didn't offer some sort of extension / restructure, this seems to me like a case of pride / heart over head. We do know Wilfork is stubborn from his previous negotiation, but in that case, it was good business for him. This seems like bad business. But again, don't know the full story.
I would have liked to have kept him, at a restructured price. Love Wilfork. All time great Patriot, in every way. He will very much be missed.
Vince, if somehow people throw you under the bus for this, I want you to know that I'm a huge fan of yours and thank you for your incredible Patriots career, and I wish you nothing but the best.
Now, to Belichick, you now have a lot more cap space with which to work, assuming you do, in fact, release Wilfork. Please make good use of it.
$17 million available?
1. Peppers at $4 mil
2. Edelman at $4.5 mil
3. Steve Smith at $4 mil
4. Woodyard at $3 mil
5. Vet safety at $1.5 mil (or keep Adrian Wilson)
6. Draft stud TE, WR, DT, and OL.
Vince, if somehow people throw you under the bus for this, I want you to know that I'm a huge fan of yours and thank you for your incredible Patriots career, and I wish you nothing but the best.
Now, to Belichick, you now have a lot more cap space with which to work, assuming you do, in fact, release Wilfork. Please make good use of it.
$17 million available?
1. Peppers at $4 mil
2. Edelman at $4.5 mil
3. Steve Smith at $4 mil
4. Woodyard at $3 mil
5. Vet safety at $1.5 mil (or keep Adrian Wilson)
6. Draft stud TE, WR, DT, and OL.
I'll echo others sentiments in that it will be said to see him go. He was such a force on that d line and from what I understand a great locker room presence. I'm still shocked to this day he fell to the Pats in that draft.
That being said, bring on the next guy and let's go win another championship.
That being said, bring on the next guy and let's go win another championship.
By far my favorite "current" Patriot. This is sad, but not necessarily bad for the team.
This must be what gonorrhea feels like, after yesterday.
Damn. Want to to know the reason(s) why. Better not be Twittering Pancakes. (sorry lucky)
This must be what gonorrhea feels like, after yesterday.
Damn. Want to to know the reason(s) why. Better not be Twittering Pancakes. (sorry lucky)
Wouldn't be SoSH without two digs at his wife's 1. appearance and 2. intelligence / business acumen. Nice job boys.
Will miss him but the last time I remember him being a beast on the field (to my untrained eyes) was the 2011 SB run. That was a long time ago. Sentimentality aside, I prefer this to a restructure. I had totally forgotten about Armstead too.
Will miss him but the last time I remember him being a beast on the field (to my untrained eyes) was the 2011 SB run. That was a long time ago. Sentimentality aside, I prefer this to a restructure. I had totally forgotten about Armstead too.
H78 said:
It really is the best way for this to go down. I'm surprised and sad because, as with many, he was a favorite (how could he not be with those quick feet under that fat body?) but also didn't think he looked good even before he went down last season.
And, seriously...$17-18 million in cap space? Gid-y-up!
fairlee76 said:
If you want to use net numbers that's fine. Just make sure you're always using net numbers. You can't mix and match net and gross numbers. I tend to think gross numbers are more popular and make more sense to people here. That's all.
The 400k is one of the players on the end of the 51 man roster.
Stitch01 said:
But some of that will come with cuts from 90 to 53 man rosters. Wilson for example.
As Bogey and Bergman will always have Paris, we'll always have Vince beating the Sanchize senseless with the ass of a 350-pound man.
Happy trails, big fella.
Happy trails, big fella.
Well those would qualify as other cap saving moves.
For instance, Wilson is currently on the cap for $1,833,333.
If he's cut, $666,667 of dead money stays on the cap.
So cutting him is a gross savings of $1,166,666. Currently, since he'd be replaced with $495,000 under the rule of 51, it would add $661,000 to the Pats current spending availability.
I cant tell if the $17MM something number above is using the rule of 51 or using everyone on the roster, what is the Pats adjusted salary cap for '14? Ive seen too many numbers floating around.
For instance, Wilson is currently on the cap for $1,833,333.
If he's cut, $666,667 of dead money stays on the cap.
So cutting him is a gross savings of $1,166,666. Currently, since he'd be replaced with $495,000 under the rule of 51, it would add $661,000 to the Pats current spending availability.
I cant tell if the $17MM something number above is using the rule of 51 or using everyone on the roster, what is the Pats adjusted salary cap for '14? Ive seen too many numbers floating around.
I really wish the league would reach a point where the value of a contract signed by a player is the actual value of how it counts against the cap. In other words, guaranteed money only. Sure, that would cause the overall "value" of contracts to drop, but the non-guaranteed money seems like garbage in so many of these deals that it would be nice just to see it removed from contract language altogether.
Pie in the sky, maybe, but it seems so much more complicated than it needs to be.
Pie in the sky, maybe, but it seems so much more complicated than it needs to be.
Toe Nash said:
Thank you for saying this. Happens constantly, and it's always equal parts disappointing and gross.
As for Vince, I'm surprised he's taking such a hard line stance on not restructuring, but there's probably more info we don't know. Also it's kind of crappy to get injured on the job and then have your boss ask you to take a pay cut at least partly because of it. Puts us in good shape cap-wise, though.
Stitch01 said:
Yes, same page.
You got the edit in so I didn't see these questions.
Stitch01 said:
I'm pretty sure Miguel uses all net numbers with the 51 man rule. The cap is 133 and the Pats rolled over about 4.1 so their adjusted number is $137,106,801.
H78 said:
Doesn't the current system kind of benefit teams, though? How often does that non-guaranteed money get paid out unless it turns out to be a team friendly continuation of the deal?
Thanks. It sounds like she was closely involved on those negotiations, but obviously not his agent.soxfan121 said:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=4970238&city=boston&src=desktop
If you are referring to my question about her possibly being his agent, I never said she was stupid or a poor business person. I do think it's a terrible idea to have relatives closely involved in these kinds of negotiations, because they typically will not be sufficiently objective to recognize what cards they're holding. As an employment lawyer, I would never represent a family member for precisely this reason. By "dumb" I was referring to the decision to ask for his release, not Bianca's level of intelligence. I think it's likely to cost him money and is indicative of an unrealistic appraisal of his value as an UFA. If she's pushing him in that direction, she's giving him bad advice.Toe Nash said:
Truth is the last year of these big contracts mean nothing on the day they're signed and even less as you approach the last year. You assess the player for future value, unfortunately Vince doesn't project too well.
Vince will be one of my all time Patriot favorites. Loved watching him play, and loved hearing about the relationship that he has with Bianca and what a great team they make. I know Kraft was close with Vince, and this must really hurt.
With all that said, he is going to be 33, looked to be declining last year, is 350+ trying to recover from a blown achilles, and plays a position that teams are trending away from in the NFL. I don't think there will be much demand for his services at all. I wish he and the Pat's could have come to an agreement on a restructure, but it sounds like he wouldn't have any part of it. Good luck Vince!
With all that said, he is going to be 33, looked to be declining last year, is 350+ trying to recover from a blown achilles, and plays a position that teams are trending away from in the NFL. I don't think there will be much demand for his services at all. I wish he and the Pat's could have come to an agreement on a restructure, but it sounds like he wouldn't have any part of it. Good luck Vince!
timelysarcasm said:
Jesus, calm down. People crack on his wife and then immediately say how cool it is that they're clearly and genuinely in love, and that they seem like they have the whole "teamwork" part of marriage down, and good for them. She's not my cup of tea, but then, I'm probably not hers, even if I do bring to the table a borderline Wilforkian rump. Whatever.
I'm bummed to see him go. And her, frankly. Seemed like a bad ass chick, and her reaction to her husband basically maiming that Buffalo WR was the stuff of legend.
As with many here, he is one of my favorite Patriots.
On a separate note, why Peppers? He can still rush the QB, but he's a DE not an interior guy, and seemed to get pushed around against the run last year*.
*this from the guys on PFF yesterday - they showed film of only two plays but the commentator implied they were representative.
On a separate note, why Peppers? He can still rush the QB, but he's a DE not an interior guy, and seemed to get pushed around against the run last year*.
*this from the guys on PFF yesterday - they showed film of only two plays but the commentator implied they were representative.
Wilfork's position here just seems bizarre. He's upset the Patriots want to restructure and pay him less, so he asks for a release in where it's likely he might get even less than he would have in a Patriots restructure? Just seems like he's taking a football business decision personally, and letting his reaction to that end up costing him money + what is in all likelyhood his best chance of getting another ring. Pride is a scary thing sometimes.
Ed Hillel said:
If the point of bringing up Peppers in thread is "his cap money can be used on FAs that play other roles" then I get it. As they are both defensive linemen, I got the impression that people were saying "crap, they're losing Wilfork; maybe we can replace him with Peppers."
Okay, carry on...
I think a d-line of Peppers, Nink, Jones on the outside with Kelly, Siliga, Armstead, Draft Pick(Hageman) on the inside could be pretty formidable. Especially with Mayo, Hightower, Collins, posssibly Woodyard at LB and what they now have in the secondary. The D will be significantly better.
Even if bizarre, it's common. And I would argue it's not bizarre. The Pats have made it clear his current contract is worth nothing? Why not hit the market, establish your value. Then give Pats chance to match if they choose. Why presume the Pats would offer the most? He might so better. Meanwhile, he is avoiding being slow walked until the FA money dries up, which teams have been known to do.ZP1 said: