I'm no capologist, but is there a way to designate Vince as a post June 1 cut and free up even more money? Are there negative ramifications about cap holding until then that come with that? Thanks
Vince Wilfork: new 3 year deal for $22.5m to stay with Patriots
- Thread starter bsj
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Cutting a player after June 1st only provides cap benefit if the player is not in the final year of his contract. For example, if Wilfork had 3 years remaining, and had a $3.5M of prorated bonus hit each season, the Pats would have to incur a $10.5M cap charge (100% of his remaining bonus money) if they cut him before June 1st. If they wait until after June 1st, they would only get charged with the current season's bonus hit ($3.5M), but would have to take a cap charge for the remaining $7M the following season (e.g., Aaron Hernandez).shoosh77 said:
As Wilfork was in the final year of his contract, the Pats were guaranteed to be hit with at least $3.5M cap charge, which was the remaining bonus allocation.
I made this mistake earlier, but let's not forget that if someone reported that Vince cut his cap figure to 8 million for the Pats, that means he'd only be getting 4.5 base this year. The rest is already in his pocket, in the form of his signing bonus. So if Vince goes out and gets a deal for 5 million base this year, he'd be making the same as what would be reported/discussed by some as a 1 year, 8.5 million dollar deal with the Pats, as it often gets conflated with cap hit in these scenarios.
Assuming the premise of 'the Patriots are interested in retaining Wilfork at some amount lower than his current contract', can someone explain to me in what ways Wilfork has less leverage negotiating with the Patriots as a free agent versus currently?
It seems appropriate to note that this news item - Wilfork requests his release - was reported by Ian Rapaport (whatever, I don't care enough to spell your name correctly, Rapshit) who is as reliable and trustworthy as Incarcerated Bob or my bulldog.
The report has been subsequently re-tweeted and cited by others but no one has confirmed it with the Wilfork camp or with the Patriots. (and why would either party care if the report is untrue? just keep working on the negotiations and announce something when done)
Rapshit = full of shit. Just sayin.
The report has been subsequently re-tweeted and cited by others but no one has confirmed it with the Wilfork camp or with the Patriots. (and why would either party care if the report is untrue? just keep working on the negotiations and announce something when done)
Rapshit = full of shit. Just sayin.
soxfan121 said:
I take anything Rapshit tweets with a mugful of salt. I am also ready to blame the Dipshit for losing out Browner if his early "sourced" tweet messed it up for Pats and my 2-day old erection.
AlNipper49 said:
That's awesome Nip, but watching it in super slo-mo with the Chariots of Fire theme song is a beauty to behold:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVjSI0O2na0[/youtube]
And of course that was one of two awesome Wilfork INT:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tYb-leyxVw[/youtube]
SeoulSoxFan said:
I bought that fucker coffee when he was here in DC covering the near-strike.
Although I got to chat with Peter King for a bit. And watch Darren Rovell be all diva-ish. Really a surreal scene.
#TeamSoxfan121Theory
The fact that he hasn't been released yet supports 121's theory here.
Restructure Vince, sign Browner, Edelman, Allen and the draft will be rainbows and kittens.
Restructure Vince, sign Browner, Edelman, Allen and the draft will be rainbows and kittens.
Dogman2 said:
Eh, that could be Belichick preparing to put him on PUP and then giving him the Milloy. /Borges
The Wilforks are savvy social media users. They don't need Rapshit to leak this news.
And based on Rapshit's admitted method of reporting (i.e. "his friends told me!), I sincerely doubt he knows more than Simone knew about Ferris.
Back in 2004, Ty Law asked to be released from his contract and the Pats just said "No."
Really loved this part of the article:
"Ha, ha!! We know you're a consummate professional with pride and will play hard no matter what!"
Really loved this part of the article:
"Ha, ha!! We know you're a consummate professional with pride and will play hard no matter what!"
Fine and well, so long as everyone understands that you cannot unilaterally renegotiate the terms of a contract and hold a player to its terms. I am sure Vince would be delighted to play under the contract as written.Reverend said:
The Pats, of course, could be pricks and greatly delay Vince's release. If you want this to end really badly, do that
Seeing that so as far as I know, as both sides haven't officially said anything, maybe this leak is just a Wilfork negotiating tactic to get the Pats to bump the dough from the original low-ball restructure offer.
dcmissle said:
I get what you're saying but it is a rather harsh assessment of what is business. Cutting Wilfork creates some cap space but also creates dead money. If he had played all season in 2013 and sucked, this would be easy. Cut him now, he's fallen off a cliff. But he played a few below-average games and then got hurt. And while the injury may render him useless, he may also recover to 85% of what he once was. Can you get 85% of prime Vince Wilfork in the open market or draft? I don't know.
If the Patriots do keep Wilfork into camp in an effort to see what he has left, it won't be to "be pricks". It may end badly but it won't be personal for the Patriots. It would be business. A healthy Vince Wilfork would make them a better team in 2014. They have enough cap space or other options to create space that they do not need to cut him now. If they do, it would have more to do with his latest rehab reports than a request that Rapshit overheard at 31 Flavors.
@AlbertBreer 21s
Might take a little bit for things to unfold with the Patriots and Vince Wilfork. He's away on vacation, so makes sense that they'd wait.
Might take a little bit for things to unfold with the Patriots and Vince Wilfork. He's away on vacation, so makes sense that they'd wait.
DrewDawg said:
C'mon, the Pats are evil. They study what the other team's coaches do on the sidelines, use gadget plays that mock the game, run up the score, and so forth. No other NFL team acts like them.
Edit: Beaten to it. Embrace the hate!
Except the Cowboys just this week released Ware after he declined to restructure his contract. Now maybe Jerry was in more dire immediate need of the cap space, but he handled it in a classy way.DrewDawg said:
edit - and while the move created 7.4 mm in cap space, it resulted in 8.5 mm dead money hit
Go ahead. Play hardball with Vince. See where that gets you.
DrewDawg said:
Because it's Vince, he's been the cornerstone of the Defense for a number of years and a huge locker room presence. Fairly or unfairly the Pats will get criticized on this by Fans and the Media for doing what any other organization does because he's been here for so long as "the man". Vince is likely the first person most fans think of when looking at the Pats D, and many fans/writers are tied to emotion vs the management game the NFL has become. It's hard to see a long term model of everything the pats represent walk away, it's like Ortiz on the sox, only it hasn't been an annual occurrence and distanced some of the fan base. I agree it's crap they are dragged through extra complaints but it's the emotional portion of the fans, teammates and media.
dcmissle said:
You want the Pats to release Vince while he's on vacation? Good luck with not getting shit on by pulling that.
dcmissle said:
The Cowboys were less than $300,000 under the cap when Ware was cut. So yeah, there was a "dire, immediate need".
What, precisely, is not "classy" about paying a guy the entire contract he signed?
Edit: When Vince says "release me", you can make this point. But making it on the say-so of one of the worst "reporters" in the business is kinda lame, dude.
dcmissle said:
Where are the Pats playing hardball?
They asked him to restructure, just like Dallas asked Ware. Both players said no. Dallas released Ware. NE has yet to release Wilfork. What exactly are they doing wrong here? There's no war of words, not "leaks" from NE.
The Pats have done nothing yet, as you note.DrewDawg said:
I'm detecting sentiment here to bludgeon Vince into a favorable restructure in order to lessen dead money hit. You would try to do that, if you wanted, by holding on to him until pool of FA money evaporates. I think it would be wrong and stupid given Vince's contributions, character and stature here.
And Brady's gotta be God's nephew. So they're coming at you both ways...DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
Valek123 said:
Vince has been a great Patriot but lets not get carried away. He was the cornerstone of a below average defense for many years and I question just how huge a presence he was in the locker room. Where was he when Adalius Thomas poisoned the locker room? I think Vince is much more the gentle giant than a locker room presence like a Tedy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison or Mike Vrabel.
I'm not even sure they will miss him on the field this season. We are talking about a 350lb human coming off an achilles tear. Who knows what his level of play will be or if he can even play anymore.
I dont think it would be wrong at all, and it might be the play here if they want him back at $1/$5MM or something like that. I dont blame Vince for seeing the writing on the wall and using the leverage of his (deserved) reputation to get out of the contract.dcmissle said:
This is just how the NFL works.
Borges and his merry band of idiots will find something to make controversy of, not worried if its this or something else.
I wonder where they go if there's a Mexican standoff and NEP can't/won't trade him? Was he difficult to handle in the locker room during the last negotiation? Would he just retire? (No evidence he's considering it.)
Pretty clear BB doesn't want him at that number.
Pretty clear BB doesn't want him at that number.
I don't have a theory. I'm crediting the report that he wants to be released, the reliability of which you have understandably questioned.soxfan121 said:
If he really wants out, I'd grant his request, thank him for his service and move on.
sleepyjose03 said:
Also God's cousin and uncle. That trinity thing makes family trees a real bitch.
Honestly, if Vince doesn't want to restructure to the level they want him to, I'm fine with them letting him walk. They can even extend an "if you can't find anything better" offer as an olive branch that keeps the chances he's back alive.
Otis Foster said:
I don't think there can be any sort of standoff, it's pretty black and white. The chances of a trade are nil. Too much money for someone with too many question marks. It's like Revis' situation but with age and injury added.
From there, it's simple. If Vince won't restructure, the Patriots either pay him his full salary or cut him. Vince doesn't need to pull any stunts like retiring.