2017 Butler Watch: Love Me Tender

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

If Butler and the Saints can agree on a long-term extension, it's hard to imagine the Saints would go through the actual offer-sheet process as they aren't going to give up the No. 11 overall pick in the draft for Butler. But they would likely give up the 32nd overall pick they acquired from the Patriots in the Brandin Cooks trade -- or second- and third-round picks -- which New England would probably accept.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4801848/how-wes-welkers-07-patriots-arrival-could-foreshadow-malcolm-butlers-departure

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt · Mar 14, 2017

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
So, if the Patriots were to trade Butler and get back the first round pick that they traded to NOS for Cooks, then the final tally on the deals would be that the Patriots got Cooks for Butler plus swapping their #103 pick for the #131 pick.

It's a bit convoluted because of the deflategate penalty, but in the end that's what it is -- by acquiring the NOS 4th round pick (#118), the Patriots restored their pick number #132 (which becomes #131).

I hate that trade actually. I think in a Cooks for Butler trade the Patriots are the ones that should get extra value. I would hope that NEP would get another NOS pick. Maybe a 2018 third rounder at least.

Exactly. As much as it's nice, I guess, to get an extra year of control on Cooks, that's off set and then some by the fact that Butler plays a far more valuable position.

tims4wins · Mar 14, 2017

I'd be happy with 42 + 76

edit: not "happy". But ok given the circumstances and the prevailing mentality that he is gone. My personal preference would be to keep him at the $4M tender and roll the dice and hope to figure out something long term at some point.

Harry Hooper · Mar 14, 2017

E5 Yaz said:
If Butler and the Saints can agree on a long-term extension, it's hard to imagine the Saints would go through the actual offer-sheet process as they aren't going to give up the No. 11 overall pick in the draft for Butler. But they would likely give up the 32nd overall pick they acquired from the Patriots in the Brandin Cooks trade -- or second- and third-round picks -- which New England would probably accept.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4801848/how-wes-welkers-07-patriots-arrival-could-foreshadow-malcolm-butlers-departure

Hoping for a 2nd and a 2018 3rd, but it just feels like it will end up as a 2nd and a 2018 4th (as Stitch01 suggested above).

Since BB has no job tenure concerns, his "discount rate" on picks in drafts beyond the current one is probably smaller than for the rest of the NFL.

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

Harry Hooper said:
Hoping for a 2nd and a 2018 3rd, but it just feels like it will end up as a 2nd and a 2018 4th.

Since BB has no job tenure concerns, his "discount rate" on picks in drafts beyond the current one is probably smaller than for the rest of the NFL.

Unless the Texans do get involved and make a better offer

bankshot1 · Mar 14, 2017

Pats have the leverage in a negotiation with the Saints.

I see little reason to unecessarily strengthen a team the Pats have to play this year by discounting the trade value of a pro-bowl CB

Imo CBs have higher values than receivers..

I can understand not getting the Saints 1st first rounder, (11) but asking for the 32 back and the 3rd (103) seems a starting point for negotiations.

Or Malcom can play for the $3.91 million.

snowmanny · Mar 14, 2017

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
So, if the Patriots were to trade Butler and get back the first round pick that they traded to NOS for Cooks, then the final tally on the deals would be that the Patriots got Cooks for Butler plus swapping their #103 pick for the #131 pick.

It's a bit convoluted because of the deflategate penalty, but in the end that's what it is -- by acquiring the NOS 4th round pick (#118), the Patriots restored their pick number #132 (which becomes #131).

I hate that trade actually. I think in a Cooks for Butler trade the Patriots are the ones that should get extra value. I would hope that NEP would get another NOS pick. Maybe a 2018 third rounder at least.

You'd have to factor in Gilmore and his $ into this transaction summary, minus the money they actually would have spent on Butler in an extension, plus maybe Amendola and his $...I mean, the roster and the cap are all connected, right?

Archer1979 · Mar 14, 2017

Archer1979 said:
Sooo... does Butler end up going to NO for their number one pick? Could NE have given up their number one for Cooks as a safety valve to the deal?

Just sayin'

PC Drunken Friar · Mar 14, 2017

Stitch01 said:
I'll predict the Pats get 42 and a 2018 4th.

If they move Butler I chalk it up to BB deciding the combination of Butler fit on a one year RFA deal being suboptimal (and worth less than the net draft compensation coming back) and a desire to accommodate a player who deserves a payday. I'm not going to be upset if they don't get a first

Time will tell if he evaluated Gilmore vs Butler correctly.

I will be severely disappointed if that's what they get

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

Archer1979 said:
Just sayin'

Not going to happen, Arch. They'll never give him an offer sheet to sign. Just agree to terms and work out a trade with the Pats

Curt S Loew · Mar 14, 2017

E5 Yaz said:
Not going to happen, Arch.

Shut up, Meathead.

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

Curt S Loew said:
Shut up, Meathead.

Stifle

DJnVa · Mar 14, 2017

From this article: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-why-the-patriots-have-already-won-big-in-2017-season-164132039.html

Here’s what makes this move even more lucrative for New England: It viewed the 32nd overall pick as a mid-second round value at best, anyway. Why? The Patriots “very rarely” assign a first-round grade to more than 15-20 players in the NFL draft, a league source told Yahoo Sports. In personnel terms, this means the second-round grades for New England typically begin in the late teens or early 20s for the franchise. So in theory, the 32nd pick would typically offer a player who has a grade similar to a player drafted as late as the 45th pick (or even later). In that way, the value at the end of the first round for the Patriots may be similar to the middle of the second or even later. From New England’s vantage point, the first-round pick surrendered for Cooks was no better than a second-round talent.

If you buy that, then NE will likely not want #32 back. They'll want #11 (obviously) or a 2nd rounder+.

Ed Hillel · Mar 14, 2017

PC Drunken Friar said:
I will be severely disappointed if that's what they get

For one year of Malcolm Butler? Chandler Jones is probably a better player and they got a late 2nd.

Pats did ok there, too.

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Mar 14, 2017

snowmanny said:
You'd have to factor in Gilmore and his $ into this transaction summary, minus the money they actually would have spent on Butler in an extension, plus maybe Amendola and his $...I mean, the roster and the cap are all connected, right?

Yeah, but the default here is that he plays for $3.91m. Which the Patriots can afford easily and the price for Gilmore and Butler taking their 2017 salaries into account seems pretty good.

I'd like to see the Patriots hold out for number 11. If the Saints are prepared to pay him 5/60 (and the Patriots are not willing to match that), then I guess you do have to take into account the disgruntled player factor. But I would really like to see the Patriots hold firm.

MuppetAsteriskTalk · Mar 14, 2017

@ Ed

Maybe I'm way off, but I think Butler is without question a better player than C Jones.

Super Nomario · Mar 14, 2017

DrewDawg said:
From this article: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-why-the-patriots-have-already-won-big-in-2017-season-164132039.html

"Here’s what makes this move even more lucrative for New England: It viewed the 32nd overall pick as a mid-second round value at best, anyway. Why? The Patriots “very rarely” assign a first-round grade to more than 15-20 players in the NFL draft, a league source told Yahoo Sports. In personnel terms, this means the second-round grades for New England typically begin in the late teens or early 20s for the franchise. So in theory, the 32nd pick would typically offer a player who has a grade similar to a player drafted as late as the 45th pick (or even later). In that way, the value at the end of the first round for the Patriots may be similar to the middle of the second or even later. From New England’s vantage point, the first-round pick surrendered for Cooks was no better than a second-round talent."

If you buy that, then NE will likely not want #32 back. They'll want #11 (obviously) or a 2nd rounder+.

The logic in the article quoted doesn't hold up. First of all, every team grades 15-20 players as first rounders (we can also quibble with round-grading as a concept, but let's leave that alone for now). This is not unique to NE. Secondly, not every team has the same 15-20 players graded as firsts. Undoubtedly some teams in front of the Pats will take players that they grade as first-rounders but the Pats don't. Obviously the chances of a first-rounder "slipping" to 32 is a lot greater than one slipping to 45. Thirdly, that they might not get a first-rounder at 32 doesn't mean they will get just as good a player as 45 without knowing how many players they grade as second-rounders. They might only get a second-round value at 32, but they might only get a third-round value at 45.

Ed Hillel · Mar 14, 2017

MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
@ Ed

Maybe I'm way off, but I think Butler is without question a better player than C Jones.

It's probably pretty close, but DE are generally considered more valuable than CB. Franchise numbers are 17 mil vs. 14 mil. Butler does have a lower cap hit this year than Jones did last year, though.

mcpickl · Mar 14, 2017

Super Nomario said:
The logic in the article quoted doesn't hold up. First of all, every team grades 15-20 players as first rounders (we can also quibble with round-grading as a concept, but let's leave that alone for now). This is not unique to NE. Secondly, not every team has the same 15-20 players graded as firsts. Undoubtedly some teams in front of the Pats will take players that they grade as first-rounders but the Pats don't. Obviously the chances of a first-rounder "slipping" to 32 is a lot greater than one slipping to 45. Thirdly, that they might not get a first-rounder at 32 doesn't mean they will get just as good a player as 45 without knowing how many players they grade as second-rounders. They might only get a second-round value at 32, but they might only get a third-round value at 45.

Agree with all of this.

Weird conclusion the writer jumped to, especially considering the last two times the Patriots had first round picks they were at #29 and #32. They stood pat and chose players.

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt · Mar 14, 2017

Chandler Jones isn't consistently GREAT enough to be a truly elite DE. And I'm not sure it's such an easy call these days, the value of a DE vs. a high-end corner like Butler.

TheoShmeo · Mar 14, 2017

Call me crazy but I'm guessing the Pats know that quality number 1/2 CBs are rare and coveted, and haven't yet written off keeping Butler. They're going through a bunch of motions now but ultimately having Malcolm on the team is more valuable than the picks being discussed in my opinion. I know the tea leaves are against me but I would not rule out a scenario in which 21 is back in NE. It's the best result and BB usually ends up with the same.

chonce1 · Mar 14, 2017

All of this talk about Bill trading Butler for a 2nd and 3rd seems stupid. If Bill does that it is wasting his leverage.

Just tell NO, "sign him or don't." If they do, match or take the pick. They don't want to give up #11? Fine, I don't blame them. Then let's keep him for 3.9m.

If the Pat's do nothing they get either 1) Butler for 3.9m; 2) a first from another team; 3) match an offer from another team.

Trading him for middling picks seems really, really stupid.

The fact that the Cooks trade could be factored into this is also nonsense to me. That trade is made. It is a violation of the CBA to complete a trade with a wink/wink... I will be pretty upset if the Pat's gift Butler to the Saints and just let go of all his leverage by trading him for anything less than a first (and really it should be 32 + 42....).

BB is smarter than me, but this seems to go against all logic.

chonce1 · Mar 14, 2017

TheoShmeo said:
Call me crazy but I'm guessing the Pats know that quality number 1/2 CBs are rare and coveted, and haven't yet written off keeping Butler. They're going through a bunch of motions now but ultimately having Malcolm on the team is more valuable than the picks being discussed in my opinion. I know the tea leaves are against me but I would not rule out a scenario in which 21 is back in NE. It's the best result and BB usually ends up with the same.

Hope you are right. Maybe the hope is when NO offers him less than Gilmore, he will see his market is not as big as he wants it to be, and be less offended by the Pat's refusal to give him the Gilmore deal.

If I am the Pat's I am not trading Butler. I am forcing a team to sign him to an offer sheet, or keeping him. Both of those options are puting the Pat's in a great spot. Trading him for 42 and 76 (or even 32) seems pretty stupid.

chonce1 · Mar 14, 2017

mcpickl said:
Agree with all of this.

Weird conclusion the writer jumped to, especially considering the last two times the Patriots had first round picks they were at #29 and #32. They stood pat and chose players.

Yes, plus didn't we trade the 28th pick one year (Mark Ingram) for a future first. BB seems to enjoy first round picks. He can always trade back if he wants. But, he doesn't usually do it (McCourty, Easley, Brown, Wilfork, etc...)

There are a lot of misconceptions about how Bill views first round picks. He doesn't trade back as much as people think and he traded up more than people realize.

EDIT: Or am I thinking of Kyle Boller -- maybe both? Anyway, BB has used late firsts in many ways that would not be possible with a mid-2nd. But BB stuns me from time to time so I am preparing for the worst (he trades Butler for a weak return)

Ale Xander · Mar 14, 2017

Trading Butler for #42 and a late pick sounds crazy. Right now Pats have leverage and depending on the chicken and egg question (do the Pats and Saints agree on hypothetical trade first or is the contract between Butler and Saints first) Pats may have even more leverage if the K offer is agreed first.

4 options here:
1) no extension tender signed , RFA signed, and we get Butler for 1/4, great
2) extension tender, signed and unmatched and we get pick 11, great
3) holdout (not great for us but nonsensical for Butler)
4) make a trade

No reason to make a trade that's significantly lower than pick #11 value imho

Agree with PCDF and THeo and the lurker

Papelbon's Poutine · Mar 14, 2017

Ale Xander said:
Trading Butler for #42 and a late pick sounds crazy. Right now Pats have leverage and depending on the chicken and egg question (do the Pats and Saints agree on hypothetical trade first or is the contract between Butler and Saints first) Pats may have even more leverage if the K offer is agreed first.

4 options here:
1) tender signed and matched and we get Butler for 1/4, great
2) tender signed and unmatched and we get pick 11, great
3) holdout (not great for us but nonsensical for Butler)
4) make a trade

No reason to make a trade that's significantly lower than pick #11 value imho

Agree with PCDF and THeo and the lurker

If the Saints tender Butler an offer, we won't be matching for 1/4.

Ale Xander · Mar 14, 2017

Papelbon's Poutine said:
If the Saints tender Butler an offer, we won't be matching for 1/4.

Sorry, meant
Butler RFA tender

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

Ale Xander said:
Trading Butler for #42 and a late pick sounds crazy. Right now Pats have leverage and depending on the chicken and egg question (do the Pats and Saints agree on hypothetical trade first or is the contract between Butler and Saints first) Pats may have even more leverage if the K offer is agreed first.

Bolded unlikely to happen

Coach Bill Belichick historically has had a high level of sensitivity regarding trade discussions involving a player who is subject to a tender offer that has not yet been signed. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Butler’s decision not to sign his tender kept the Patriots and Saints from seriously exploring the prospect of adding Butler to the deal.

Eight years ago, Belichick made clear his disdain for discussing trades of players who have not yet signed tender offers, regarding the possibility of acquiring former-and-present Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers.

“There’s no trade talks going on with Carolina,” Belichick said at the time. “They don’t have a signed contract. They can’t talk about trading a player that isn’t signed.”

When it comes to the playing rules, Belichick has a habit of interpreting and applying them aggressively. When it comes to CBA provisions regarding tender offers, Belichick has been very careful not to give the NFL Players Association any ammunition for arguing that the tender was not made with a good-faith intention to employe the player at the amount of the tender for the upcoming season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/12/unsigned-tender-kept-malcolm-butler-out-of-brandin-cooks-talks/

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

Ben Volin‏Verified account @BenVolin 27m27 minutes ago
Saints currently have picks 1-11, 1-32, 2-42, 3-76, 3-103. Think it will take 32 + either 42 or 76 to get Butler

Saints Rest · Mar 14, 2017

Ale Xander said:
Trading Butler for #42 and a late pick sounds crazy. Right now Pats have leverage and depending on the chicken and egg question (do the Pats and Saints agree on hypothetical trade first or is the contract between Butler and Saints first) Pats may have even more leverage if the K offer is agreed first.

4 options here:
1) tender signed and matched and we get Butler for 1/4, great
2) tender signed and unmatched and we get pick 11, great
3) holdout (not great for us but nonsensical for Butler)
4) make a trade

No reason to make a trade that's significantly lower than pick #11 value imho

Agree with PCDF and THeo and the lurker

Papelbon's Poutine said:
If the Saints tender Butler an offer, we won't be matching for 1/4.

PP being correct (and I am pretty sure he is), then Ale's first option becomes "New contract offered by NO, matched by NE, and we get Butler at some new contract level." Wouldn't a trade basically be done to get NE to waive their right to match the contract? Looked at another way, if NO and MB agree to something like 4/$50 with maybe $25M guaranteed, can't NE simply say, "We'll match that, thanks for doing the negotiating for us." And if so, is there anything at that point that MB can do other than show up at camp?

Ale Xander · Mar 14, 2017

E5 Yaz said:
Bolded unlikely to happen

Coach Bill Belichick historically has had a high level of sensitivity regarding trade discussions involving a player who is subject to a tender offer that has not yet been signed. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Butler’s decision not to sign his tender kept the Patriots and Saints from seriously exploring the prospect of adding Butler to the deal.

Eight years ago, Belichick made clear his disdain for discussing trades of players who have not yet signed tender offers, regarding the possibility of acquiring former-and-present Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers.

“There’s no trade talks going on with Carolina,” Belichick said at the time. “They don’t have a signed contract. They can’t talk about trading a player that isn’t signed.”

When it comes to the playing rules, Belichick has a habit of interpreting and applying them aggressively. When it comes to CBA provisions regarding tender offers, Belichick has been very careful not to give the NFL Players Association any ammunition for arguing that the tender was not made with a good-faith intention to employe the player at the amount of the tender for the upcoming season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/12/unsigned-tender-kept-malcolm-butler-out-of-brandin-cooks-talks/

Agreed. Which is why the Pats have a tremendous amount of leverage here to not need to settle for 42

E5 Yaz · Mar 14, 2017

Jeff Duncan‏ @JeffDuncan_ 3h3 hours ago
Major factor in Malcolm Butler trade scenario: Saints will have to pay Butler big $$$ to keep him long-term. Brees, Vaccaro deals also loom.

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Mar 14, 2017

E5 Yaz said:
Ben Volin‏Verified account @BenVolin 27m27 minutes ago
Saints currently have picks 1-11, 1-32, 2-42, 3-76, 3-103. Think it will take 32 + either 42 or 76 to get Butler

I think I could live with 42. In the end, conflating the Cooks trade and the Butler trade as though it were one transaction, it would mean Patriots give Butler and pick 103 for Cooks and picks 42 and 131.

I suppose that's not bad for a player who we'd only have gotten one year of. We get a little cap savings too. Still, the team then will have lost two starting backfield players and will have only picked up one.

RedOctober3829 · Mar 14, 2017

Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 5m5 minutes ago
Here's a thought on Malcolm Butler and the Saints before they meet to negotiate a contract. If Pats/Saints prefer trade, consider cost...
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 4m4 minutes ago
With an offer sheet, the Saints would owe the Pats the 11th pick in the draft if the Patriots decline to match it, obviously...
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 3m3 minutes ago
The NFL draft trade value chart (outdated, but a guideline nonetheless) lists the 11th pick as worth 1,250 points...
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 2m2 minutes ago
A comparable trade should then include the 32nd (590 pts), 42nd (480) and 76th (210) picks (1,280 points total).
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 1m1 minute ago
So unless the Pats get that type of haul in return, they'd be doing the Saints a huge favor by negotiating a trade before an offer sheet.

Mugsy's Jock · Mar 14, 2017

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I think I could live with 42. In the end, conflating the Cooks trade and the Butler trade as though it were one transaction, it would mean Patriots give Butler and pick 103 for Cooks and picks 42 and 131.

I suppose that's not bad for a player who we'd only have gotten one year of. We get a little cap savings too. Still, the team then will have lost two starting backfield players and will have only picked up one.

To be clear, you're talking #32 + #42, right?
In which case, I'd agree.

Stitch01 · Mar 14, 2017

I dont really think the value of #11 matters because there isnt going to be a trade if the Saints are willing to give up #11 and they probably arent giving Butler an offer if they have to give up #11. The choice is going to be

--Butler on 1/4
--Whatever the best picks are offered in a trade for Butler

Pretty likely Butler on 1/4 is best for '17 talentwise, decent chance Butler and the comp pick are better than the best offer. But this isnt a video game and Im inclined to defer to BB's judgment on whether Butler here for 1/4 is going to be a workable situation. If they move Butler, particularly for something less than a 1st round pick, I would personally assume he decided it wasnt workable and there seems to be a fair bit of smoke around it not being workable.

Also not sure a holdout is completely nonsensical for Butler if he is trying to shoot his way out of town and get paid now. He has to accrue the season, but maybe he tells the team he'll see them in week 10 Mankins style and is going to be making business decisions on contact when he returns. Will cost him $3MM or so, but easier to do on his '17 tender salary than for a franchised guy or someone on a 5th year option.

Van Everyman · Mar 14, 2017

Based on everything we are reading, I have a hard time believing we all won't end up being disappointed in what we get back for Malcolm before pivoting to "Well, it's not bad for one year of control I guess."

Red Averages · Mar 14, 2017

Stitch01 said:
Pretty likely Butler on 1/4 is best for '17 talentwise, decent chance Butler and the comp pick are better than the best offer. But this isnt a video game and Im inclined to defer to BB's judgment on whether Butler here for 1/4 is going to be a workable situation. If they move Butler, particularly for something less than a 1st round pick, I would personally assume he decided it wasnt workable and there seems to be a fair bit of smoke around it not being workable.

The odds of Butler staying at 1yr/4mm and plays good soldier, gets worse after he meets with NO and hears what they would be willing to pay him if the Pats agreed to a non-#11 draft choice trade. I certainly would have a hard time going to a stressful job knowing I'm being bad 1/10th the guaranteed money I had if my boss would let me out of my contract...

Guessing when he is dealt it's a Chandler Jones/Jamie Collins trade where everyone's first reaction is anger.

Stitch01 · Mar 14, 2017

Plus when they just paid top dollar to the guy sitting in the office next to Butler after he earned top reviews as a consummate company man for the last two years.

So it wont be surprising to me if they move on for the best price and if that price is not quite a 1st rounder.

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Mar 14, 2017

Mugsy's Jock said:
To be clear, you're talking #32 + #42, right?
In which case, I'd agree.

Yes. Right.

Red Averages · Mar 14, 2017

Stitch01 said:
Plus when they just paid top dollar to the guy sitting in the office next to Butler after he earned top reviews as a consummate company man for the last two years.

So it wont be surprising to me if they move on for the best price and if that price is not quite a 1st rounder.

Yup. And all year, every day you come in, that guy, that younger guy than you is getting the better assignments, the higher profile responsibilities despite you knowing you're going to need to market yourself and if that other guy looks really good he'll be taking down your expected pay day.

Oh and the younger, newly high paid guy is likely going to have some shiny new toys to talk about given he just made tens of millions of dollars.

Harry Hooper · Mar 14, 2017

Stitch01 said:
Plus when they just paid top dollar to the guy sitting in the office next to Butler after he earned top reviews as a consummate company man for the last two years.

So it wont be surprising to me if they move on for the best price and if that price is not quite a 1st rounder.

Yeah, references to having leverage or doing the Saints a big favor are offset by BB showing for years now that he doesn't have much time or desire to wrangle with unhappy players.

Rough Carrigan · Mar 14, 2017

Jimbodandy said:
Butler's situation is not unfair to him. Teams in every sport have the advantages in the early years. These rookie deals benefit the team, and the guy cashes in when he accrues enough service time. Kris Bryant might be a top-5 player in his sport, let alone at his position, and he just signed a $1M deal. Someday he'll be a very rich man by baseball standards, but now he's paying his dues. Just like Malcolm.

Yup. And Malcolm made his bed. He couldn't get even the shitty test scores needed to officially qualify to go to a bigger school so he had to go to an NCAA backwater. Then he didn't run a great 40 time so he couldn't overcome the fact that he had played at an NCAA backwater school. So, he was an undrafted free agent because of no one else but Malcolm Butler. No one.

Now, the story out is that before this past year the Pats offered him a contract for $7 million a year. That doesn't seem like much compared to what unrestricted free agent Stephon Gilmore got but what was Malcolm Butler's situation before last year?

Well, it looked something like this. He was going to make something like $600,000 in 2016 and could be tendered at just below $4 million in 2017. Then he would be a possible free agent where the best cornerbacks make something on the order of $14,000,000 per year. A four year contract at these rates would be $32,600,000 or $8.15 million but Malcolm would be playing one year very cheap and have the risk of being hurt in the first couple years before he ever saw the big money. If the contract the Pats offered averaged $7 million and was for 4 years, it wouldn't have been all that unfair. Getting your money early requires taking a little less.

I sort of wonder if Malcolm's rookie agent feels like he absolutely has to play the hardest of hardball to establish his credibility.

BaseballJones · Mar 14, 2017

Is it too late for Butler to go back and accept the Patriots' offer of ~$7 million a season? If he went back to them and said, ok, I'll play for that, would the Pats say, great, we have a deal?

DJnVa · Mar 14, 2017

Red Averages said:
The odds of Butler staying at 1yr/4mm and plays good soldier, gets worse after he meets with NO and hears what they would be willing to pay him if the Pats agreed to a non-#11 draft choice trade.

If they play it like that, then the whole "BB and Payton are buddies, NE will do NO a solid" are off. You can't call in favors while blaming that team at the same time.

Well, I guess, you can...

DJnVa · Mar 14, 2017

BaseballJones said:
Is it too late for Butler to go back and accept the Patriots' offer of ~$7 million a season? If he went back to them and said, ok, I'll play for that, would the Pats say, great, we have a deal?

Why would the Patriots pay him $7m for one season? His offer is for $4m. Why would you want the Pats to give up their rights here? Because suddenly Butler is going to torpedo the locker room?

Pats up next year to $7m they get something in return. It really shouldn't be "good behavior".

tims4wins · Mar 14, 2017

Just saw a tweet that says if Butler signs the tender, he will make more his first four years than Derek Carr. "Unfair" my foot.

RedOctober3829 · Mar 14, 2017

The notion that Malcolm Butler is underpaid is so ludicrous it is kind of infuriating. The rookie contract system is the NFL is something every player has to go through. For example, 2nd round pick Derek Carr is still under his rookie contract and is a top-10 QB and an MVP candidate. His rookie contract totals $5.37 million. If Malcolm Butler plays under the tender next year he'd have earned $5.44 million. So, should Derek Carr force his way out of Oakland to get paid faster? Should every draft pick who outperforms his contract force their way out? It's a complete joke. Malcolm please come to your senses. Sign the tender, make 5 times what you made at any point in your life, and go on the open market next offseason. You aren't the first player this has happened to and you certainly wouldn't be the last.

mcpickl · Mar 14, 2017

RedOctober3829 said:
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 5m5 minutes ago
Here's a thought on Malcolm Butler and the Saints before they meet to negotiate a contract. If Pats/Saints prefer trade, consider cost...
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 4m4 minutes ago
With an offer sheet, the Saints would owe the Pats the 11th pick in the draft if the Patriots decline to match it, obviously...
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 3m3 minutes ago
The NFL draft trade value chart (outdated, but a guideline nonetheless) lists the 11th pick as worth 1,250 points...
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 2m2 minutes ago
A comparable trade should then include the 32nd (590 pts), 42nd (480) and 76th (210) picks (1,280 points total).
Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 1m1 minute ago
So unless the Pats get that type of haul in return, they'd be doing the Saints a huge favor by negotiating a trade before an offer sheet.

What a pile of useless info from Howe here.

The Saints reportedly aren't willing to give up the value of the #11 pick to get Butler, so he bunches up a pile of smaller assets equal to the #11, and we're to believe the Saints would give that up for Butler?

I'm usually a fan of Howe, he'd been terrible this week.

BaseballJones · Mar 14, 2017

DrewDawg said:
Why would the Patriots pay him $7m for one season? His offer is for $4m. Why would you want the Pats to give up their rights here? Because suddenly Butler is going to torpedo the locker room?

Pats up next year to $7m they get something in return. It really shouldn't be "good behavior".

I thought the extension offer was for several years, not one year.

2017 Butler Watch: Love Me Tender

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