While $20m is a hefty price to pay, I wonder what kind of return a team could get for Otani. It’s not like the Mariners are going to be very competitive.
For the sake of baseball, we all want him to become a superstar. It's even better when players aren't doing it for the money and far easier to like them. That's my problem with Bryce Harper. I can't find a way to like the guy no matter how good he is and part of me does not want the Yankees to go after him.I imagine any team that signs then immediately trades ohtani will never sign an international FA again. Can deals like this have a NTC?
Also, it seems that Ohtani being able to "break the mold" is the most important thing for him. I bet he could suck for a whole season as a hitter in Seattle, SF, San Diego and LAA. If he wasnt performing with the Yankees, the media would jump on him and he would be relegated to a traditional starter role in no time.
edit: Also, no mater where he signs, anyone who comes over from Japan just so he can baseball at the highest possible level(not worried about money) and politely tells the Yankees "I would never play for you, no matter how great your presentation is" is a solid guy in my book. I hope he becomes a superstar.
Eh, Ohtani could be the cure to what ails them. The offense is pretty good already. Same with the pen. They need starting pitching and Ohtani is a big step in the right direction.While $20m is a hefty price to pay, I wonder what kind of return a team could get for Otani. It’s not like the Mariners are going to be very competitive.
Yeah, this is a deep lineup. Sign mid-level starter, maybe a closer off a good year like Greg Holland and they definitely are in the discussion for a Wild Card just this year.Eh, Ohtani could be the cure to what ails them. The offense is pretty good already. Same with the pen. They need starting pitching and Ohtani is a big step in the right direction.
Yeah if King Felix is healthy and they get even #3 level consistent production out of him they’re most likely a playoff team. Personally I think he’ll be exposed as a hitter - from the video and scouting reports I’ve seen, he’s probably not going to stick; he’s fast but his contact isn’t great and his swing is long, I’m not convinced he will be able to handle the higher level of pitching - but I also think ‘Sure, we will let you DH’ is a sacrifice to get him to sign. He has legit ace level talent, fastball/split/slider and can hit triple digits when he wants to. I don’t expect the hitting experiment to last long, but it’s worth it. And slot him in with Felix and Paxton, let Leake eat innings and fill the five slot and they are a top 4-5 team.Eh, Ohtani could be the cure to what ails them. The offense is pretty good already. Same with the pen. They need starting pitching and Ohtani is a big step in the right direction.
Yeah, Keith Law says he is a definite 80 speed and of course we know his arm, but he has not actually played the OF since 2013.Is he being fingered as a DH because he doesn't have a position or just to reduce injury from playing the field? You'd think he'd be a good enough athlete to play somewhere in the field, though I suppose practice time would be an issue.
I would not want my star pitcher throwing darts from the OF a couple of days after throwing 100 pitches, or on a throw day. Plus the toll on the legs. DH gets him AB's probably 3 days a week. Cruz could be traded if he is too bad in the OF 3 days a weekYeah, Keith Law says he is a definite 80 speed and of course we know his arm, but he has not actually played the OF since 2013.
I do think if it's SEA, it would make way more sense for him to play OF over DH even with the extra burden, Nelson Cruz in 2018 in RF in SEA is something not even the Mets would try.
Not sure if you’re joking or not but it’s more like 4 hours difference. Short of a Tupolev, not sure how you’re making up NY to Seattle in 90 mins.Seattle is the only small market AL team on the Weat Coast. I'm guessing thats where he ends up now. Boy, Cashman must have really blown it in his presentation. Whats the difference in flying time direct to Tokyo from NY vs Seattle. 90 minutes?
The Concorde flies again. Just for himNot sure if you’re joking or not but it’s more like 4 hours difference. Short of a Tupolev, not sure how you’re making up NY to Seattle in 90 mins.
Before two-way Japanese star Shohei Ohtani made his choice not to include the Yankees as a finalist in the derby for the two-way star, Ohtani’s representatives at CAA made pleas to at least give them a longer look, people familiar with the situation said.
The case to consider the Yankees more strongly by CAA included 1) their fine young team, 2) the chance to hit a lot of home runs with their short porch, and 3) the marketing money that could be made as a Yankee in New York via branding opportunities.
However, Ohtani, a small-town guy who’s played for Nippon in Sapporo and obviously isn’t about the money, was having none of it. When Yankees GM Brian Cashman told Yankees media members, including NJ.com’s Brendan Kuty, that the Yankees did not make it to the second round, he said he wished (probably for the first time) that the Yankees were in a smaller city on the West Coast.
Lack of immediate urgency to winHonestly, it doesn't just sound like it's not about money. It sounds like he just wants to live in an area that he likes. It cannot be about proximity to Japan because he's not going to be flying there on off-days no matter where he plays. Small market translates to someone convincing him that reporters won't be up his ass as much. Am I missing something else that SM teams offer?
He’s obviously not flying home on off days, but if he has family back in Japan that would presumably come to watch him play, the flight would likely be a consideration. And there’s also a consideration for at least proximity from home - he is a 23 yo kid, maybe being halfway around the globe in a huge city is something he’s not feeling he’s ready for.Honestly, it doesn't just sound like it's not about money. It sounds like he just wants to live in an area that he likes. It cannot be about proximity to Japan because he's not going to be flying there on off-days no matter where he plays. Small market translates to someone convincing him that reporters won't be up his ass as much. Am I missing something else that SM teams offer?
That's my point, though. If this is true and that's why he is ruling out non-West Coast teams unless it's with his buddy Yu, then I'd begin to question his makeup. If you're 23 and need to be near mommy and daddy then I'm not sure coming to the MLB is the right decision. Boston or Houston would seem like a perfect destination for someone looking to be on a competitive team with unbelievable resources and a great fanbase. Instead, he wants to go to Seattle or the Angels? Huh. Okay kid, enjoy getting coddled.And there’s also a consideration for at least proximity from home - he is a 23 yo kid, maybe being halfway around the globe in a huge city is something he’s not feeling he’s ready for.
King Felix just needs to be healthy. He didn’t lose his ability. That’s not a huge assumption. Their bullpen was 13th in the league in ERA, which was better than Houston. I’m not sure why one wouldn’t assume that the young players wouldn’t be able to maintain, since none of them went crazy and Seagar had a down year he should be able to bounce back from. If the get Ohtani, you’re telling me they’re not better than the Twins were this year? They won’t win the division unless the Astros have injuries, but they certainly can contend for a wild card and I’d say they’d be a favorite for one.He's got a bit of Cano in him apparently. Wants to be the big dog in a smaller market that doesn't have the media or the pressure to win.
That's fine, and I hope he succeeds (unless it's in Seattle).
As far as the Mariners being competitive, there are a lot of assumptions above. If King Felix is good again ... if they get a good reliever ... if there new offensive stars (Gamel, Haniger, Zunino) hit above their norms again ...
Also, of note, Mariners fans in general turned on Ichiro his final year or two there. Thought he hit too many singles and didn't think he did enough to help the team. Whether that was somewhat fair or not is possible, but to turn on the one guy that made your shit team interesting for 10 years is something.
Maybe it’s not ‘I need to be near mommy and daddy’. Or be coddled. Maybe it’s ‘im taking them into consideration and trying to accommodate them as well’. Maybe it’s also that there’s almost zero difference in what he can make monetarily so why not spend three years getting acclimated with a close distance to home, in a smaller market in a new country, then reassess.That's my point, though. If this is true and that's why he is ruling out non-West Coast teams unless it's with his buddy Yu, then I'd begin to question his makeup. If you're 23 and need to be near mommy and daddy then I'm not sure coming to the MLB is the right decision. Boston or Houston would seem like a perfect destination for someone looking to be on a competitive team with unbelievable resources and a great fanbase. Instead, he wants to go to Seattle or the Angels? Huh. Okay kid, enjoy getting coddled.
He's moving countries and cultures. He's in a position to go wherever he wants, and this is what he wants. We should all be so lucky. Plenty of great athletes prefer being near home or by loved ones or a million other things that might not make your hypothetical checklist of how you'd act if you could throw 100.That's my point, though. If this is true and that's why he is ruling out non-West Coast teams unless it's with his buddy Yu, then I'd begin to question his makeup. If you're 23 and need to be near mommy and daddy then I'm not sure coming to the MLB is the right decision. Boston or Houston would seem like a perfect destination for someone looking to be on a competitive team with unbelievable resources and a great fanbase. Instead, he wants to go to Seattle or the Angels? Huh. Okay kid, enjoy getting coddled.
His velocity has dropped almost every year, from 98.5 as a rookie in 2007 to 91.1 in 2016 and 2017, and that is even with the mile or two bump everyone else got this year under the new measuring system. He is not Jared Weaver yet, but he is moving in that direction.King Felix just needs to be healthy. He didn’t lose his ability.
Yeah that’s true, but not all pitchers rely purely on velocity. Anyway If his shoulder is healthy, you don’t think that comes back a bit? Regardless, if we assume NYY, Sox, Astro’s and Indians for four of the spots (which never works out anyway), who you got over Seattle if they get him and Felix is healthy, even if not vintage?His velocity has dropped almost every year, from 98.5 as a rookie in 2007 to 91.1 in 2016 and 2017, and that is even with the mile or two bump everyone else got this year under the new measuring system. He is not Jared Weaver yet, but he is moving in that direction.
There is no way the Red Sox or Yankees give him a year as a DH if he ends up struggling for the first 2-3 months, which is possible. Seattle is an amazing city. There are many people that "if money were no object" would rather live in Seattle, San Diego, or San Francisco than Boston, NYC or Houston.That's my point, though. If this is true and that's why he is ruling out non-West Coast teams unless it's with his buddy Yu, then I'd begin to question his makeup. If you're 23 and need to be near mommy and daddy then I'm not sure coming to the MLB is the right decision. Boston or Houston would seem like a perfect destination for someone looking to be on a competitive team with unbelievable resources and a great fanbase. Instead, he wants to go to Seattle or the Angels? Huh. Okay kid, enjoy getting coddled.
Hard to say, there's still a ways to go before even spring training, but maybe the White Sox will be the next team whose young talent base blossoms before we thought it would. Twins are trying to sign an ace, they will be interesting if they do. Rangers?Yeah that’s true, but not all pitchers rely purely on velocity. Anyway If his shoulder is healthy, you don’t think that comes back a bit? Regardless, if we assume NYY, Sox, Astro’s and Indians for four of the spots (which never works out anyway), who you got over Seattle if they get him and Felix is healthy, even if not vintage?
It's whining and sour grapes from those people. Plain and simple.I know this may be piling on, but it has always made me crazy when people speculate on why athletes choose what they do. Saying Ohtani “wants to be closer to mommy and daddy”, or an above post that “Bryce Harper is only about the money”... look, for MANY players, just being on the roster of one of 30 MLB teams is making it and accomplishing their dream, even while they may not feel allegiance to one team, or even necessarily to the team that drafted them.
If they can play pro ball, AND meet other criteria, doesn’t mean they “hate the game” or “aren’t interested in winning”. Most pro players have giant egos and may believe they are the missing piece that can LEAD a team to winning. Or whatever. Personally, I find sports far more interesting when good players are evenly distributed throughout the league rather than constantly going to “perennial winners”, and I say that as a fan of the Sox who are definitely one of the “haves” in that equation.
There was no presentation. He cut down to a short list that would be able to give a presentation.Seattle is the only small market AL team on the Weat Coast. I'm guessing thats where he ends up now. Boy, Cashman must have really blown it in his presentation. Whats the difference in flying time direct to Tokyo from NY vs Seattle. 90 minutes?
It's not sour grapes. Everyone is 100% correct that we should never diminish what is important to individuals and we should all be so fortunate to be able to pick and choose based on our own personal criteria. I'm only bringing up the makeup issues because of confusion caused by all of the conflicting reports surfacing for what his priorities are. If a player is ruling out big cities and big media markets without even experiencing them or giving them a shot, it's odd to me. If he joins Seattle, it's like saying "I want to come to the MLB to compete on the smallest stage possible while there." I take it all back if he chooses LAD or CHC.It's whining and sour grapes from those people. Plain and simple.
There was no presentation. He cut down to a short list that would be able to give a presentation.
The fact that LA and Chicago are on his short list already disproves your hypothesis. He didn't want east coast teams (or eastern half of the US, really). That's the factor, not a fear of pitching in NY. The New York Daily News headline is disgraceful.It's not sour grapes. Everyone is 100% correct that we should never diminish what is important to individuals and we should all be so fortunate to be able to pick and choose based on our own personal criteria. I'm only bringing up the makeup issues because of confusion caused by all of the conflicting reports surfacing for what his priorities are. If a player is ruling out big cities and big media markets without even experiencing them or giving them a shot, it's odd to me. If he joins Seattle, it's like saying "I want to come to the MLB to compete on the smallest stage possible while there." I take it all back if he chooses LAD or CHC.
That's not what I'm saying. I'll step back from my point here since I'm clearly not convincing anyone but my only point is that it could say something about him (good or bad) to not even walk into Fenway or around Boston to see a town that lives and breathes based on its sports teams or to check out Houston who just won a World Series or to grow into a young core with the Yankees.Yes, not wanting to play for the Yankees, Red Sox, cubs, or dodgers is a character flaw. He is clearly not a gritty player
Yes, and you're right. When I made my posts last night the stories were not just about West Coast bias. There was also a focus on small market teams + Yu Darvish potential. As it looks clearer that this is only about West Coast, the small market comments that Cashman made seem less and less important.The fact that LA and Chicago are on his short list already disproves your hypothesis. He didn't want east coast teams (or eastern half of the US, really). That's the factor, not a fear of pitching in NY. The New York Daily News headline is disgraceful.
I respect the maturity to know what he does and doesn't want. He doesn't feel the need to be wined and dined and made a bunch of promises. He's getting to play in the majors. He'll visit and pitch in all those cities and stadiums. He knows what he wants, and has the talent and ability to dictate his own terms. Good for him. We should all be so lucky.That's not what I'm saying. I'll step back from my point here since I'm clearly not convincing anyone but my only point is that it could say something about him (good or bad) to not even walk into Fenway or around Boston to see a town that lives and breathes based on its sports teams or to check out Houston who just won a World Series or to grow into a young core with the Yankees.
Shohei Ohtani: I've made my choice. I'm signing with the Mariners
Jerry Dipoto: That is wonderful news. We are honored to have you
Ohtani: Thank you
Dipoto:
Ohtani:
Dipoto: You've been traded to the White Sox
Yeah, when even the Padres are on the list, they have to really be questioning themselves.Oakland cannot feel too good about themselves right now.
I think the answer is actually pretty simple. He's looking for as close a proximity to his home as possible while also weighing Japanese population within those cities.The Cubs being on the list makes me a bit surprised that the Red Sox aren't. Just to get a tour and presentation, at least.