Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

Captaincoop · Feb 1, 2019

I wouldn't worry about it right now. Enjoy this season and we'll see what happens in the summer.

There is no one better in the NBA at navigating this nonsense than Danny Ainge. I recall Kevin Garnett insisting he wouldn't come to Boston at one point, too. Before he came to Boston, won a title, and bought into the Celtics legacy as completely as anyone, ever.

BaseballJones · Feb 1, 2019

JCizzle said:
I mean, as evidenced by his own son haha. I agree with your sentiment

Exactly. He's saying the Celtics have no loyalty as his son is demanding to be traded while he's still under contract with the Pelicans.

I mean, come on dude.

bosockboy · Feb 1, 2019

The transparent plants reek of desperation.

Even if they know they can sign AD in July 2020, LAL must be terrified of Ainge gambling and taking him for a season. This forces them to save their cap room and punt another season.

Ainge knows this; he will handle this, full trust.

bosockboy · Feb 1, 2019

BaseballJones said:
Exactly. He's saying the Celtics have no loyalty as his son is demanding to be traded while he's still under contract with the Pelicans.

I mean, come on dude.

Also he should chat with IT who has let it go and openly pined to come back.

DeJesus Built My Hotrod · Feb 1, 2019

Again, the important color we got today, if it can be believed, is what Woj said during the Celtics game. The Pelicans seem pretty resolute in that they aren't going to get bullied into a trade.

Of course, things can change but if Demps & crew are going to take the fall, its hard to see them not trying to get the best package possible for one of the most talented players in the NBA to save some face. Short of Magic and Pelinka promising Dell a spot in the Lakers FO, its difficult to see what incentive he has to caving to their propaganda tactics.

On the other hand, if Masai calls, Dell should be picking that phone up on the first ring...

BigSoxFan · Feb 1, 2019

DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Again, the important color we got today, if it can be believed, is what Woj said during the Celtics game. The Pelicans seem pretty resolute in that they aren't going to get bullied into a trade.

Of course, things can change but if Demps & crew are going to take the fall, its hard to see them not trying to get the best package possible for one of the most talented players in the NBA to save some face. Short of Magic and Pelinka promising Dell a spot in the Lakers FO, its difficult to see what incentive he has to caving to their propaganda tactics.

On the other hand, if Masai calls, Dell should be picking that phone up on the first ring...

I tend to agree. I think it’s either Toronto with a deal right at the deadline or AD bonanza goes into the summer and Ainge ultimately pulls the trigger. Let LeBron punt his age 34 and 35 seasons.

DeJesus Built My Hotrod · Feb 1, 2019

BigSoxFan said:
I tend to agree. I think it’s either Toronto with a deal right at the deadline or AD bonanza goes into the summer and Ainge ultimately pulls the trigger. Let LeBron punt his age 34 and 35 seasons.

I really like LeBron and he is my NBA GOAT. However, after this Klutch/puppet-Paul tampering with Davis and blatant media manipulation, nothing would be funnier than him being thwarted in the pursuit of another star player. Watching him play out his days along side misfit toys like Stephenson and McGee is both pathetic and amusing.

OnWisc · Feb 1, 2019

If anyone benefits from this evening’s nonsense, it’s the Pelicans, as Team LeBron’s latest gambit was the equivalent of flying a giant zeppelin over New Orleans flashing “WE ARE DESPERATE NOT TO FLUSH TWO SEASONS OF LBJS CAREER.” There’s nothing more blatant they can do to convince Demps that Boston won’t want to offer much for AD than this absurd stunt. It would’ve been better without the IT reference. As-is, it’s just so awkwardly obvious you have to wonder who’s making these decisions.

At this point I’m asking for Ball and Ingram and Kuzma and LA’s first every other year for the next seven years. And maybe the right to swap in the off years.

EDIT: The best part is, it’s only Friday. By next Thursday AD will probably have developed some sort of allergy to Boston air or may have to retire rather than play for the Celtics as a way of protesting how we shipped Cedric Maxwell out of town.

JCizzle · Feb 2, 2019

OnWisc said:
If anyone benefits from this evening’s nonsense, it’s the Pelicans, as Team LeBron’s latest gambit was the equivalent of flying a giant zeppelin over New Orleans flashing “WE ARE DESPERATE NOT TO FLUSH TWO SEASONS OF LBJS CAREER.” There’s nothing more blatant they can do to convince Demps that Boston won’t want to offer much for AD than this absurd stunt. It would’ve been better without the IT reference. As-is, it’s just so awkwardly obvious you have to wonder who’s making these decisions.

At this point I’m asking for Ball and Ingram and Kuzma and LA’s first every other year for the next seven years. And maybe the right to swap in the off years.

EDIT: The best part is, it’s only Friday. By next Thursday AD will probably have developed some sort of allergy to Boston air or may have to retire rather than play for the Celtics as a way of protesting how we shipped Cedric Maxwell out of town.

I just dont understand the play. All the offers there today will be there this summer. I dont see how this pressures the Pelicans at all. As you said, it's just a bad, desperate look for LeBron's camp.

JCizzle · Feb 2, 2019

Lol

in the Lakers first offer to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis, LA offered Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and a first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

nighthob · Feb 2, 2019

Elsewise known as the Proverbial PuPu Platter of Puppy Poop™.

DeJesus Built My Hotrod · Feb 2, 2019

JCizzle said:
Lol

in the Lakers first offer to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis, LA offered Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and a first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

I mean, if Dell Demps is going out in a blaze of glory, it has to include Rondo (2.0 Pelicans) and Beasley...

scottyno · Feb 2, 2019

tatum alone is worth more than that entire offer, hell brown and either the kings or grizz pick is probably worth more than all that

BigSoxFan · Feb 2, 2019

JCizzle said:
Lol

in the Lakers first offer to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis, LA offered Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and a first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

This is great. Lakers trying to get cute with it over Brandon Ingram and some low value picks. As we’ve all said, these idiots need to offer everything they’ve got now. They have so much incentive to close the deal before the deadline.

Devizier · Feb 2, 2019

If the Lakers aren't offering everything but Lebron then they are simply not serious about this

BaseballJones · Feb 2, 2019

The Lakers should put every single asset they have besides LeBron on the table and say, take 5 of them (or 6 or 7 or whatever it takes), your choice. Let the Pelicans decide which of them they want (if they want any). Then your team is LeBron, AD, and whatever else is left. And in the offseason, add another star player because apparently they'll have plenty of cap space to do it.

BigSoxFan · Feb 2, 2019

BaseballJones said:
The Lakers should put every single asset they have besides LeBron on the table and say, take 5 of them (or 6 or 7 or whatever it takes), your choice. Let the Pelicans decide which of them they want (if they want any). Then your team is LeBron, AD, and whatever else is left. And in the offseason, add another star player because apparently they'll have plenty of cap space to do it.

Yup. But what the Pelicans have probably told them to do is to figure out a way to turn Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, etc. into assets they actually want.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

BigSoxFan said:
This is great. Lakers trying to get cute with it over Brandon Ingram and some low value picks. As we’ve all said, these idiots need to offer everything they’ve got now. They have so much incentive to close the deal before the deadline.

Yeah, amazing. I'm kind of loving how this is playing out.

lexrageorge · Feb 2, 2019

That click you heard was the sound of Demps slamming the phone down in laughter when he heard the opening offer from the Lakers.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

Also have to think that the package the Knicks got for an injured Porzingis isn't helping the Lakers optically.

2 1sts (1 unprotected), DSJ, and unloading an amount of salary that usually would cost a mid to late first rounder...and all for a dude who isn't as good as AD and whose health no one is sure of.

DeadlySplitter · Feb 2, 2019

If Lebron is so desperate not to “waste” a year or two, why did he go to LA?

BigSoxFan · Feb 2, 2019

DeadlySplitter said:
If Lebron is so desperate not to “waste” a year or two, why did he go to LA?

Probably because he figured his tampering, err, roster construction strategies would work.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

DeadlySplitter said:
If Lebron is so desperate not to “waste” a year or two, why did he go to LA?

He likes LA, and I guess he thought that puppet-master would be fun/easy. He's getting a dose of reality now, and it would be amazing karma for him to be stuck playing out the string with Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram, on a 4-year contract.

BaseballJones · Feb 2, 2019

BigSoxFan said:
Yup. But what the Pelicans have probably told them to do is to figure out a way to turn Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, etc. into assets they actually want.

Yeah. Here's what's going to be interesting. AD appears to want to be in LA for the rest of his career. So that gives him huge leverage and takes leverage away from the Pelicans. But what LA has to offer is simply not that attractive. I mean, sure, I'd be happy with Ball and Kuzma and a first round pick, but not in exchange for a generational player in his prime like Davis.

So LA is Davis' preferred destination, but LA's package is weak. How could they make those assets into something NO wants? No idea. Obviously other teams have to get involved. But it'll be interesting to see what wins out: NO's demands, or Davis' leverage.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

BaseballJones said:
Yeah. Here's what's going to be interesting. AD appears to want to be in LA for the rest of his career. So that gives him huge leverage and takes leverage away from the Pelicans. But what LA has to offer is simply not that attractive. I mean, sure, I'd be happy with Ball and Kuzma and a first round pick, but not in exchange for a generational player in his prime like Davis.

So LA is Davis' preferred destination, but LA's package is weak. How could they make those assets into something NO wants? No idea. Obviously other teams have to get involved. But it'll be interesting to see what wins out: NO's demands, or Davis' leverage.

We're about to find out what the rest of the league thinks of Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma. My guess is "not much," but it only takes one.

sezwho · Feb 2, 2019

DeadlySplitter said:
If Lebron is so desperate not to “waste” a year or two, why did he go to LA?

I’ve been hammering this point as well.

LeBron could have added Paul George to Kyrie on the Cavs and set up a monster big 3. Except LeBron wanted to be in LA so wouldn’t commit to staying, so PG trade unraveled...and here he is trying to avoid a second wasted year for the non-Russel NBA GOAT.

Maybe Klutch tampers it’s way to a super team in LA, but that’s long odds and you still have the Warriors. Again, maybe I’ll look foolish, but this whole plan seemed completely misguided from jump.

I think Woj had it first, but this is the only link I could find this AM...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/report-cavaliers-ve-traded-kevin-200301073.html

OnWisc · Feb 2, 2019

JCizzle said:
I just dont understand the play. All the offers there today will be there this summer. I dont see how this pressures the Pelicans at all. As you said, it's just a bad, desperate look for LeBron's camp.

I think you are probably right, but its possible that the value of having AD for the remainder of this season as well as the prospect of him playing games him in a Laker uniform next week could lead to LA basically agree to just about anything leading up to the deadline.

While last night’s comments reeked of ineptitude on the part of the James Cabal, it’s entirely possible that if given until July, they’ll hit on some strategy that will materially and adversely impact what other clubs are offering to pay for AD. Davis has clearly wanted to play the good guy in this situation so far and let his dad and agent do the dirty work, but he might ultimately just telegraph that he’ll effectively sit for the year Kawhi-style if he doesn’t go to LA.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

OnWisc said:
I think you are probably right, but its possible that the value of having AD for the remainder of this season as well as the prospect of him playing games him in a Laker uniform next week could lead to LA basically agree to just about anything leading up to the deadline.

While last night’s comments reeked of ineptitude on the part of the James Cabal, it’s entirely possible that if given until July, they’ll hit on some strategy that will materially and adversely impact what other clubs are offering to pay for AD. Davis has clearly wanted to play the good guy in this situation so far and let his dad and agent do the dirty work, but he might ultimately just telegraph that he’ll effectively sit for the year Kawhi-style if he doesn’t go to LA.

If he wants to sit a year and then go join LeBron's age 36 season, sweet.

I'm starting to sour on AD: stars demand trades all the time, but what he's letting his reps do in the media is over the line. Honestly, I wonder how much of Kyrie's being pissed comes from someone who's his "friend" putting him through this media wringer.

Jeff Van GULLY · Feb 2, 2019

The Lakers offer was clearly leaked by Demps to embarrass the Lakers. Nice to see the Pels go on the offensive PR-wise.

bosockboy · Feb 2, 2019

The dirty pool by Paul/LAL may just push Demps into not trading him there for spite.

How they are handling this is petty and below the belt. And really transparent.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

bosockboy said:
The dirty pool by Paul/LAL may just push Demps into not trading him there for spite.

How they are handling this is petty and below the belt. And really transparent.

Non-Lakers teams really need to pressure the league to put a stop to this. If nothing else, Silver needs to tell LeBron to quit the games. They've been willing to publicly reprimand the Lakers for tampering before, and the league is at all-time levels of popularity even with a shitty Lakers team.

sox311 · Feb 2, 2019

lovegtm said:
They've been willing to publicly reprimand the Lakers for tampering before, and the league is at all-time levels of popularity even with a shitty Lakers team.

That was before Lebron was in Tinsel Town. Silver wants Lebron on the playing floor as long as possible, so he won't get on his bad side where Lebron can say "fine, three more years, then I'm doing nothing but barber shop reality shows."

I hope Demps leaks every offer, because nothing they offer will be enough.

If it is going to happen, Demps needs to hold out until it is Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Zubac, Hart, (plus expiring contracts to match money being Lance, KCP, Rondo, or Beasley) two first rounders and two pick swaps for AD and Solomon Hill. There is no other way Demps should do it. Just make the offer to LA that gets the the most they possibly can. LA isn't going to turn down an offer to get Anthony Davis. Just like Danny wouldn't either.

Cellar-Door · Feb 2, 2019

The problem for the Lakers is pretty simple, no matter what or who Paul trots out, nobody really believes that the Celtics aren't going to bid aggressively this summer.
So for the Lakers to get it done now, they need to overwhelm the Pelicans, and since the Pels (and most of the league it seems) aren't sold on their young guys that's tough.

COnstructing a deal that NOP takes now, would I assume include at least the 3 if not 4 that NOP likes best of the LAL young guys (Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, Zubac), plus 3-4 unprotected 1sts and probably some swaps on the later in-between years, might also ask them to eat the last year of Solomon Hill's deal?

The problem of course is that to make salary work (even without eating Hill) they need to either include Rondo (leaving LAL with no PG) or KCP (who has a defacto no-trade and also would involve Paul screwing a client). On top of that is roster issues, do NOP want to cut or include 3--4 guys to make this deal work?

Basically LAL have a top end talent problem in this deal, they need to do a pupu platter, and even the best version of that comes with complications for an in-season deal.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 2, 2019

The downside of waiting for Demps...

Big John · Feb 2, 2019

Cellar-Door said:
The problem of course is that to make salary work (even without eating Hill) they need to either include Rondo (leaving LAL with no PG) or KCP (who has a defacto no-trade and also would involve Paul screwing a client).

I don't see those issues as problems at all. The Lakers don't need a point guard with LeBron running the offense, and even if they do there are at least a half dozen point guards who will be UFAs in July who are way better than anything they have now. As for screwing KCP, it's only for two months, and when KCP took a one year deal for more than he was worth, he had to know that he was potential expiring fodder in a trade.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

Big John said:
I don't see those issues as problems at all. The Lakers don't need a point guard with LeBron running the offense, and even if they do there are at least a half dozen point guards who will be UFAs in July who are way better than anything they have now. As for screwing KCP, it's only for two months, and when KCP took a one year deal for more than he was worth, he had to know that he was potential expiring fodder in a trade.

Not to mention that the Pels need wings, and KCP would get a lot of playing time leading up to his FA.

DannyDarwinism · Feb 2, 2019

Gunfighter 09 said:
The downside of waiting for Demps...

The Zion/Tatum options are so much better that it’s worth losing out on, say, Kuzma from the Lakers package, but this is why LA needs to stop with the eye-roll offers, put everything they have on the table (and possibly get a third team involved) and hope that Demps is risk-averse enough to settle.

BigSoxFan · Feb 2, 2019

DannyDarwinism said:
The Zion/Tatum options are so much better that it’s worth losing out on, say, Kuzma from the Lakers package, but this is why LA needs to stop with the eye-roll offers, put everything they have on the table (and possibly get a third team involved) and hope that Demps is risk-averse enough to settle.

I don’t understand why a 2nd round loss against a quality team like Mil/Tor/Phi would mean Kyrie leaves. That’s a big assumption that is probably not true.

benhogan · Feb 2, 2019

Gunfighter 09 said:
The downside of waiting for Demps...

where does Klutch dig up these Jokers?

Hey Jason McIntyre, unfortunately for the Lakers, the Celtics aren't the only team that thinks AD is worth trading for...There must be a half dozen other teams that will have lost in the 2019 playoffs looking to top the Laker crap offer.

Big John · Feb 2, 2019

benhogan said:
where does Klutch dig up these Jokers?

Hey Jason McIntyre, unfortunately for the Lakers, the Celtics aren't the only team that thinks AD is worth trading for...There must be a half dozen other teams that will have lost in the 2019 playoffs looking to top the Laker crap offer.

Toronto could easily beat it right now, and I'm expecting some drama on Thursday morning.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

BigSoxFan said:
I don’t understand why a 2nd round loss against a quality team like Mil/Tor/Phi would mean Kyrie leaves. That’s a big assumption that is probably not true.

Yup, more likely Kyrie and Danny just look at each other, shrug their shoulders, and offer Tatum+picks.

The other big X factor we should start talking about is Gordon Hayward. There's a non-neglible chance he'll look like a different guy in a couple months, in which case:
- Kyrie is happier
- trading for AD gives the Celtics a strong 26-29 year old core
- Tatum is way more expendable

TripleOT · Feb 2, 2019

So many variables for the Celtics: Hayward's return to form. Kyrie's happiness. Sacto's ping pong ball, Rozier and especially Brown continuing to improve, the Clippers making the playoffs and conveying a mid-first pick this year, Memphis winning some games and conveying 9-10 this year, or deeply tanking into a three year rebuild, making the unprotected pick three drafts from now look very tasty.

Lakers' variables?? If NO isn't feeling their package of four or five young players and middling picks, can the Lakers get other teams involved to ship a player or two the the Pels feel have big time potential.

I'm guessing Pels' ownership are pissed, and won't trade AD to the Lakers this year, even if they can scrape up a couple of attractive players from other teams. They should be eyeing Tatum as the jewel, with as many first round picks as possible, so they have a better chance of success in the crapshoot called the NBA Draft.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

TripleOT said:
So many variables for the Celtics: Hayward's return to form. Kyrie's happiness. Sacto's ping pong ball, Rozier and especially Brown continuing to improve, the Clippers making the playoffs and conveying a mid-first pick this year, Memphis winning some games and conveying 9-10 this year, or deeply tanking into a three year rebuild, making the unprotected pick three drafts from now look very tasty.

Lakers' variables?? If NO isn't feeling their package of four or five young players and middling picks, can the Lakers get other teams involved to ship a player or two the the Pels feel have big time potential.

I'm guessing Pels' ownership are pissed, and won't trade AD to the Lakers this year, even if they can scrape up a couple of attractive players from other teams. They should be eyeing Tatum as the jewel, with as many first round picks as possible, so they have a better chance of success in the crapshoot called the NBA Draft.

Do other teams even like the Lakers' pieces? If they could have flipped Ingram/Ball into something more attractive to NO, I feel like that would have already happened.

Captaincoop · Feb 2, 2019

It's impossible to quantify Ball's trade value. His family drama and the questions about playing outside LA have to give other organizations doubts.

lovegtm · Feb 2, 2019

deleted: pedantic

DavidTai · Feb 2, 2019

Ball's specific desires limits his market to a few teams, and they don't have the assets or desire to make it work. Chicago? NY?

Cesar Crespo · Feb 2, 2019

Where would a Murray, Beasley, Morris, Hernangomez and picks for AD rank among potential offers?

Throw in Plumlee for salary purposes and the NO Pelicans have a brand new starting lineup.

edit: Amazing.
Murray 3.5m
Hernangomez 2.2m
Beasley 1.75m
Morris 1.35m

The benefits of drafting well with late first and 2nd rounders. Outside of Murray, anyway.

HowBoutDemSox · Feb 2, 2019

DavidTai said:
Ball's specific desires limits his market to a few teams, and they don't have the assets or desire to make it work. Chicago? NY?

Especially since the Knicks just picked up Dennis Smith Jr. (and already have Frank Ntilikina), so I think they’re all set on draft class of 2017 point guards.

Cellar-Door · Feb 2, 2019

lovegtm said:
Do other teams even like the Lakers' pieces? If they could have flipped Ingram/Ball into something more attractive to NO, I feel like that would have already happened.

yeah, I think the league as a whole is much lower on their pieces than Magic is.
Ball= Poor Man's Rubio and not even handsome
Ingram= Skinny Jeff Green
Kuzma= Rodney Rodgers 2.0

Honestly, I've seen people (Notably Matt Moore) argue that Hart is the best of the young core because at least he can be a 3 and D option who doesn't need the ball on a contender.

Cesar Crespo · Feb 2, 2019

Cellar-Door said:
yeah, I think the league as a whole is much lower on their pieces than Magic is.
Ball= Poor Man's Rubio and not even handsome
Ingram= Skinny Jeff Green
Kuzma= Rodney Rodgers 2.0

Honestly, I've seen people (Notably Matt Moore) argue that Hart is the best of the young core because at least he can be a 3 and D option who doesn't need the ball on a contender.

I don't think the bolded is necessarily true. I think it varies from GM to GM. They are very polarizing.

Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

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