She wasn’t the warmest person I knew, but even worse - she was a Dallas Cowboy’s fan. That was pretty tough to take back in the ‘80s. My family are all old school Giants fans.Wow, your friend's mom was a selfish jerk.
She wasn’t the warmest person I knew, but even worse - she was a Dallas Cowboy’s fan. That was pretty tough to take back in the ‘80s. My family are all old school Giants fans.Wow, your friend's mom was a selfish jerk.
That’s awesome. Must have been a great time growing up there. Lots of heartbreak before 2004 but lots of great moments too. I loved watching the games on WSBK too. I miss that station.Our first year with tickets was ‘87. The gator was a favorite of our son. He still has a 39 shirt.
That explains a lot. They are, by far, The Worst.She wasn’t the warmest person I knew, but even worse - she was a Dallas Cowboy’s fan. That was pretty tough to take back in the ‘80s. My family are all old school Giants fans.
Like the RS, NESN's ratings much improved this season.IDK. Anecdotally two people on this very page said that their kids and uncles don't watch the team anymore or are still angry about the Sox losing Betts. I don't think it's as cut-and-dry as many around here feel it is.
I think I’ve settled on a philosophy. If you’re going to take on a huge contract reink your own guys or go on the fa market. Do not—pretty much ever— trade a whole bunch of talent for the right to have someone for a year or two and si them to a giant extension.
this is a little different for a contending club, but not that much
Pedro was 25 coming off a Cy in Montreal. Also, we didn't trade a whole bunch of talent. Pavano and Armas were a cheap price to pay for what came back. Even then it was obvious.There are always exceptions, and Pedro was just a six year deal.
So 13 2/3 innings for $217M, are you hiring?Price should have the 2018 WS MVP. The guy was amazing. That by itself makes him worth his contract.
Are you bringing a title to Boston?So 13 2/3 innings for $217M, are you hiring?
Was it? I remember a lot of doubts about Pedro's physique and signability.Pedro was 25 coming off a Cy in Montreal. Also, we didn't trade a whole bunch of talent. Pavano and Armas were a cheap price to pay for what came back. Even then it was obvious.
The obvious answer, but I mean, come on. It’s not even like that series went seven games, BOS won in 5.Are you bringing a title to Boston?
I was vaguely responding to some posters that feel the Dodgers signing Mookie to $300M was “worth it” because they won* in ‘20 no matter if he’s a dead weight for the back half.The obvious answer, but I mean, come on. It’s not even like that series went seven games, BOS won in 5.
To me it’s a really silly way to think about things, dunno. Patrick Corbin is another guy who helped one title run and who besides that has been pretty awful for most of his giant deal, I don’t think that makes him ‘worth his contract’, I think that makes him a guy who was terrible for most of his contract but who helped one title run. If Dombrowski signed Steve Pearce to a 6/150 deal immediately after trading for him, he would not have been ‘worth his contract’ despite being great in 2018.
His overall numbers mask just how bad he was against the Yankees for that entire deal, which hurt even more because BOS signed him in part for how well he had pitched down the stretch against NY the previous year.I was vaguely responding to some posters that feel the Dodgers signing Mookie to $300M was “worth it” because they won* in ‘20 no matter if he’s a dead weight for the back half.
Price was far better non WS here than Pablo, Hanley, etc…. He shouldn’t be included on those “worst” signings. Add in his dominant WS and I think he was worth it (relatively speaking)
Oh I recall but… still not a bad contract in aggregate.His overall numbers mask just how bad he was against the Yankees for that entire deal, which hurt even more because BOS signed him in part for how well he had pitched down the stretch against NY the previous year.
View: https://twitter.com/ktsharp/status/1158189835439542278?s=21&t=W5hlwRbpkYmmRW5GW_THow
Unless they think that the replacement is worth more money than the guy who left.I think the issue is that when the Sox let their homegrown/ fan favorite/ long term guys go over extra cash, we shouldn't expect them to turn around and spend even more money on that player's replacement.
That wasn’t the issue with Mookie though or Devers/X, which is why we're in this thread.I think the issue is that when the Sox let their homegrown/ fan favorite/ long term guys go over extra cash, we shouldn't expect them to turn around and spend even more money on that player's replacement.
That made me look up his splits. Overall, he was passible against the Yanks in 2017, but otherwise pretty bad, Fenway or Bidet.His overall numbers mask just how bad he was against the Yankees for that entire deal, which hurt even more because BOS signed him in part for how well he had pitched down the stretch against NY the previous year.
The issue when Pedro was signed was getting him onto a long term deal. At that time there were no concerns about his effectiveness or his physical condition. He was already considered a stud, but had one year left on his deal when acquired.Was it? I remember a lot of doubts about Pedro's physique and signability.
Pavano was no slouch either - great ERAs, whips and K/W ratios in AA and AAA ball the two years before he was traded. Baseball America had him as the #17 prospect in baseball after the 1996 season and #9 prospect after the 1997 season. He probably would have had a better major league career if his innings were managed the way they are today.
Armas was further down the system, but people thought he had a big future too.
There would have been some sad prospect humpers on this website back then.
Oh thee were plenty of concerns. The Dodgers didn’t even want him because of those concerns. He was small and not built for a long career of the shit he was throwing. Lots of people thought he’d be injured and done pretty soon.The issue when Pedro was signed was getting him onto a long term deal. At that time there were no concerns about his effectiveness or his physical condition. He was already considered a stud, but had one year left on his deal when acquired.
How concerned could the Sox have possibly been to have immediately signed him to a 7 year deal? And it was for $75 million IIRC which was back then real money, big money.Oh thee were plenty of concerns. The Dodgers didn’t even want him because of those concerns. He was small and not built for a long career of the shit he was throwing. Lots of people thought he’d be injured and done pretty soon.
Hence my use of the word "signability."The issue when Pedro was signed was getting him onto a long term deal. At that time there were no concerns about his effectiveness or his physical condition. He was already considered a stud, but had one year left on his deal when acquired.
Not really. It was only one dude who was concerned and that was Tommy Lasorda. Thought he was too small to hold up as a starter and would end up in the bullpen.Oh thee were plenty of concerns. The Dodgers didn’t even want him because of those concerns. He was small and not built for a long career of the shit he was throwing. Lots of people thought he’d be injured and done pretty soon.
Duquette was not concerned, but I remember that there was some concern from fans and media (I know, I know) saying that Pedro was just "a National League pitcher" (He will have to deal with real one-to-nine lineups, no pitchers hitting), probably wouldn't be able to handle the Boston spotlight after starring in Montreal ("We're toughah down heah!") and that he was too small and a bit of a "punk" (hitting people, etc.). Folks are nervous about big deals like this, I get it, but this wasn't a slam dunk all around.Not really. It was only one dude who was concerned and that was Tommy Lasorda. Thought he was too small to hold up as a starter and would end up in the bullpen.
DD traded for Pedro twice. So he was not concerned.
That's what I remember. It wasn't until Pedro did get hurt in 2001 that the idea of having him around for the remainder of his career became more of a concern, IMO.Not really. It was only one dude who was concerned and that was Tommy Lasorda. Thought he was too small to hold up as a starter and would end up in the bullpen.
DD traded for Pedro twice. So he was not concerned.
I'm not sure how into him they were in 1998 for the trade, but he had a meeting after 2004 with Steinbrenner. He came out of the meeting thinking he'd get a contract offer, but Cashman decided against more than 2 years and never sent anything formal.Can someone remind me why the Yankees didn't go after him/didn't overbid us? They didn't have prospects like Pavano, i doubt.
He'd obviously have been a fan hit, especially with NY's big Dominicano population. Was it just the "NL pitcher" BS?
I think the Sox simply out bid them. Like you say, they didn't have a Pavano to offer at the time. Ironically, the second prospect the Sox sent to the Expos (Armas Jr) came from the Yankees (for Mike Stanley).Can someone remind me why the Yankees didn't go after him/didn't overbid us? They didn't have prospects like Pavano, i doubt.
He'd obviously have been a fan hit, especially with NY's big Dominicano population. Was it just the "NL pitcher" BS?
Or it just they didn;t need him since they won anyway
Right, if that trade happened today, Pedro would have been asking for like a 12 year, $400M extension, which may or may not have been a good signing. The back half of that deal would have been really ugly. He only threw 531 IP over 5 years after leaving Boston with a 109 ERA+.Pedro's deal was the highest average annual value for a pitcher ever to that point. There may have been a longer contract, but not much longer. I remember A-Rod's deal was seen as crazy for being 10 years long and he was still just 25. It's only in the last decade that 10+ year contracts have become common.
View: https://youtu.be/mn8EbgzYFw0Not really. It was only one dude who was concerned and that was Tommy Lasorda. Thought he was too small to hold up as a starter and would end up in the bullpen.
DD traded for Pedro twice. So he was not concerned.
I don't recall whether the Yankees were seriously in the bidding. I believe it came down to the Sox and Cleveland, and the latter balked when the Expos asked for Jarret Wright. Wright had a really good World Series, was young, thought to be a horse and that he was a future ace.Can someone remind me why the Yankees didn't go after him/didn't overbid us? They didn't have prospects like Pavano, i doubt.
He'd obviously have been a fan hit, especially with NY's big Dominicano population. Was it just the "NL pitcher" BS?
Or it just they didn;t need him since they won anyway
If I remember this right, the Yankees were in on Pedro and asked the Expos why they traded him to the Sox rather than NY. Expos said that NY didn't have Tony Armas Jr. which was the difference maker apparently.I don't recall whether the Yankees were seriously in the bidding. I believe it came down to the Sox and Cleveland, and the latter balked when the Expos asked for Jarret Wright. Wright had a really good World Series, was young, thought to be a horse and that he was a future ace.
You could say the same about Armas re inning management.Pavano probably would have had a better major league career if his innings were managed the way they are today.
Armas was further down the system, but people thought he had a big future too.
He did miss the entire 2006 season with a bruised ass, so it's understandable that Yankees fans didn't think he was making his best efforts.Prior to his injury, he was at 86 games, 493.0 IP and a 109 ERA+ for his MLB career as a 25 year old. Well on his way to a big future. Only pitched another 432.2 innings in his career.
Pavano at the same age had 66 games, 378.1 IP and a 99 ERA+. He'd go on to pitch another 1410.1. Pavano had a weird career. Pitched 200+ innings in 2003 and 2004. Next 4 years he has 145.2 IP combined. Then he somehow bounces back with 642.1 IP over the next 3 seasons, with a low of 199.1 IP for a season. I know there were talks he mailed it in in NY but I never bought that.
Not quite. I am pretty sure Duquette acquired Armas Jr from the Yankees (for Mike Stanley) specifically because he knew the Expos liked him a lot.If I remember this right, the Yankees were in on Pedro and asked the Expos why they traded him to the Sox rather than NY. Expos said that NY didn't have Tony Armas Jr. which was the difference maker apparently.
Absolutely on Cleveland not trading Wright. He had the pitcher’s build (some said he was the next Clemens) and pitched his ass off in Game 7. I don’t fault John Hart at all for not trading him.Not quite. I am pretty sure Duquette acquired Armas Jr from the Yankees (for Mike Stanley) specifically because he knew the Expos liked him a lot.
edit-as for Wright he was nearly the winning pitcher in Game 7 of the WS in 1997. At that moment it would have been tough to trade six years of Wright for potentially only one year of anyone.
That makes sense. Duquette and Beattie were fairly tight with each other back then.Not quite. I am pretty sure Duquette acquired Armas Jr from the Yankees (for Mike Stanley) specifically because he knew the Expos liked him a lot.
edit-as for Wright he was nearly the winning pitcher in Game 7 of the WS in 1997. At that moment it would have been tough to trade six years of Wright for potentially only one year of anyone.
so 2013 and 2018 mean nothing to you?Epstein, Henry, and Werner came on like gangbusters. 2002-2007 was sublime and there were no boundaries on the joy in my soul. They bought and kept us safe from Frank McCourt! They freakin' saved FENWAY!!! Since then, they have reverted to type.
They finished ahead of the Yankees and humiliated them in the Wild Card game 9 months ago.I will not go to another game at Fenway until they are gone or are all in on winning world championships and destroying Yankee teams on a regular basis on the field and from the GM office.
so 2013 and 2018 mean nothing to you?
Guys, there's so much wrong in that post that pouncing on them individually will take foreverThey finished ahead of the Yankees and humiliated them in the Wild Card game 9 months ago.