10/24 weekend gamethread

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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If LVG isn't going to go for the throat at home when City are without Aguero and Silva, when is he going to do it?

Good result for City, and for Arsenal. Puzzling display from United.
 

Nick Kaufman

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blueguitar322 said:
But in this case the linesman did not doubt that he had made the correct call. And replay seems to be on his side, if only by an inch. But that's still offside.
I haven't seen the play you re talking about and I don't know what the call was. if martino says the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt, he's thinking that it's a close call that isn't clear cut, in which case the rule is that the attacker gets the call. Obviously the linesman could have a different opinion. He also has a different vantage point and has to make a decision in a split second.
 

Zomp

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sachmoney said:
United defense is not good (see terrible) 
 
 
Tied for first for goals against with City and your beloved Arsenal.  
 
 
We need to try and drop Rooney and play Martial up front, but even so I felt United were the better team yesterday and were a bit unlucky not to edge it.  Rojo was fantastic on KDB and I'm glad Schneiderlin had a good game.  Hopefully he becomes a mainstay in big games.
 

teddykgb

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Both teams were shit yesterday and trying to decide who was slightly less shit isn't particularly useful.  Martial created a few things (I think the laughing about him is over) but neither team looked much like scoring.  I can try to convince myself it's because our best two attackers were out but I don't think either manager was particularly keen on adventure yesterday -- each was content to try to steal some ugly goal from god knows where and hold on for victory.  Nearly happened for both teams but that game needed a goal desperately to open it up and it just never came.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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City was missing their two best players and all Pelligrini's decisions shouted that they were happy with a point. In that context, I don't think it really matters which team looked stronger.

United had better chances but they didn't create much. I was shocked LVG didn't try harder to win the game. City is the title favorite, United were at home, and they caught City without Aguero and Silva. This is the kind of game you need to win if you're going to upset the favorite and take the title. LVG still played not to lose.
 

NickEsasky

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Silva and Aguero can't get back soon enough. Long balls into Bony is not the answer on offense. They really miss Silva's creativity. Yaya looked like he had somewhere else he'd rather be. Did they forget to get him a cake again?
 

mikeford

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Feels like Toure has sleepwalked through his career at City since that birthday fiasco first happened tbh.

He wasn't that great last year and hasn't been anything special this year either in my limited viewings
 

sachmoney

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Both of the Ivorians (Toure and Bony) looked disinterested. Bony seemed a step off the pace on balls hit his way. His hold up play was very poor and it made it difficult for both De Bruyne and Sterling to really get into the game and run at United defenders. I wish I had those two hours of my life back because that game sucked. At least Buffalo-Jacksonville was interesting on my computer.
 
I wonder how many more points City drops when Aguero is out.
 

coremiller

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
City was missing their two best players and all Pelligrini's decisions shouted that they were happy with a point. In that context, I don't think it really matters which team looked stronger.

United had better chances but they didn't create much. I was shocked LVG didn't try harder to win the game. City is the title favorite, United were at home, and they caught City without Aguero and Silva. This is the kind of game you need to win if you're going to upset the favorite and take the title. LVG still played not to lose.
 
I agree that United should have been more aggressive, but my guess it that LVG's tactics were a reaction to getting pasted by Arsenal a few weeks ago.  He set out to make sure that didn't happen again, at the risk of being overly conservative.
 

teddykgb

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Bony just doesn't look like he'll work at City.  I don't know what happened to him but he looks a shell of the player he was at Swansea.  He can clearly hold the ball up a bit but there's no movement from him after he does so and he's never seeming to charge the front post in the box....he's just so static and laboring.  I'm mystified how he didn't work out but I'm pretty ready to write him off at this point.
 
Yaya just doesn't have the mobility necessary either.  He's still a match winner and can produce results from a few opportunities (he unfortunately whiffed on one of City's best opportunities yesterday) but the team as a whole definitely suffers with him in the squad.  I think the reliance upon Yaya explains a lot of what happens in Europe as well, as the games just pass him by in pace and intensity.  He's still worth playing against the mid table and lower English sides as they seem to be able to cope with a midfield 1.5 in those matches, but against any stiff competition his inability to pull his weight as a squad member really hampers City's ability to operate.  For years City fans have wanted him played forward without defensive responsibilities but what we saw yesterday was that a lack of mobility and willingness to work for your teammates to both close out the back 4 and show for passes can really nullify any hopes of attacking.
 
That said, everyone at City have played a ton of football already this year and the massive number of injuries have resulted in too many players playing too many minutes.  I'm not completely shocked to see a dire performance midweek of a CL match, even if City didn't have nearly as much travel to do as United.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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coremiller said:
I agree that United should have been more aggressive, but my guess it that LVG's tactics were a reaction to getting pasted by Arsenal a few weeks ago.  He set out to make sure that didn't happen again, at the risk of being overly conservative.
 
I think you're probably right, although LVG may also have a more general problem breaking down teams that set up defensively.  Of course, every team will struggle to some extent to break down a parked bus, especially if you're dealing with defenders of high quality like City possesses.  But LVG's commitment to playing two defensive midfielders at nearly all times (two of the Schneiderlin/Schweinsteiger/Carrick trio) really makes things difficult.  When they had Shaw and Darmian at FB, this problem was ameliorated because they were pretty effective attacking down the wings and through overloads at the corner of the box.  But with Shaw hurt and Darmian now seemingly out of favor, they're starting Valencia and Rojo, neither of whom offer much in terms of breaking through a deep, organized defense.
 
 
teddykgb said:
Yaya just doesn't have the mobility necessary either.  He's still a match winner and can produce results from a few opportunities (he unfortunately whiffed on one of City's best opportunities yesterday) but the team as a whole definitely suffers with him in the squad.  I think the reliance upon Yaya explains a lot of what happens in Europe as well, as the games just pass him by in pace and intensity.  He's still worth playing against the mid table and lower English sides as they seem to be able to cope with a midfield 1.5 in those matches, but against any stiff competition his inability to pull his weight as a squad member really hampers City's ability to operate.  For years City fans have wanted him played forward without defensive responsibilities but what we saw yesterday was that a lack of mobility and willingness to work for your teammates to both close out the back 4 and show for passes can really nullify any hopes of attacking.
I don't disagree with the overall assessment but I did think that City looked most threatening when Yaya and De Bruyne were combining. The guys who really seemed to go missing were Bony and Sterling.
 

Bailey10

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
I think you're probably right, although LVG may also have a more general problem breaking down teams that set up defensively.  Of course, every team will struggle to some extent to break down a parked bus, especially if you're dealing with defenders of high quality like City possesses.  But LVG's commitment to playing two defensive midfielders at nearly all times (two of the Schneiderlin/Schweinsteiger/Carrick trio) really makes things difficult.  When they had Shaw and Darmian at FB, this problem was ameliorated because they were pretty effective attacking down the wings and through overloads at the corner of the box.  But with Shaw hurt and Darmian now seemingly out of favor, they're starting Valencia and Rojo, neither of whom offer much in terms of breaking through a deep, organized defense.
 
 
I think LVG deserves some credit for selecting Valencia and Rojo for this game ahead of Darmian and Blind.
 
Rojo, as stated above, neutralized City's best attacking player in De Bruyne. Valencia's pace and workrate allowed him not only to keep up with Sterling but also keep Kolarov pinned back in defensive duties. Kolarov has been one of City's best players so far this season and forcing him to worry about Valencia (since Sterling plays little to no defense) prevented him from putting in too many dangerous crosses into the attacking third. City's best chance that entire game was a Kolarov free kick into the box where Rooney managed to body Ottamendi out of the way.
 
You can also view Peligrini's early substitution of Sterling for Navas, someone who would do a better job of tracking Valencia, as a reaction to this tactical decision by LVG. 
 

teddykgb

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I think you're giving LVG way too much credit.  Kolarov has hardly been one of City's best players, but he usually attacks more than he did yesterday.  This had more to do with City having no possession and thus no opportunities for the fullbacks to get forward than it had anything to do with the fullback on his side.  Navas was substituted for Sterling because Sterling could find no way into the game -- I agree that his fullback played a part there but mostly Sterling was again way too passive and not showing for the ball enough to get involved.  While I'll grant the FB some credit for this I place more blame with Raheem who needs to show far more into space and find ways to get on the ball.  He's playing off the last man too much and trying to make runs behind the defense which is great when City have plenty of possession but yesterday they needed him to show for his attacking partners more because the two defensive midfielders had snuffed out all passing angles, especially long diagonals forward.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Bailey10 said:
I think LVG deserves some credit for selecting Valencia and Rojo for this game ahead of Darmian and Blind.
 
Rojo, as stated above, neutralized City's best attacking player in De Bruyne. Valencia's pace and workrate allowed him not only to keep up with Sterling but also keep Kolarov pinned back in defensive duties. Kolarov has been one of City's best players so far this season and forcing him to worry about Valencia (since Sterling plays little to no defense) prevented him from putting in too many dangerous crosses into the attacking third. City's best chance that entire game was a Kolarov free kick into the box where Rooney managed to body Ottamendi out of the way.
 
You can also view Peligrini's early substitution of Sterling for Navas, someone who would do a better job of tracking Valencia, as a reaction to this tactical decision by LVG.
Rojo and Valencia certainly had good games defensively but, unsurprisingly, they offered almost nothing in attack.

I'm reading a lot of griping in the media about United's attack (well, griping about Rooney) and praising their defensive solidity. But its a tradeoff.  To break down a packed defense, top clubs usually rely on both a #8 midfielder who can storm forward and offer a substantial threat, either as a passer or finisher, and fullbacks that can create overloads and combine well with their winger and other players near the corner of the box.   LVG played neither against City and he does that pretty frequently.
 

teddykgb

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Watching the United v Boro on BeIN right now.  It's in extra time and United have rode their luck a bit with a few great chances from Boro in the last 20.  United doing the usual float it toward Fellaini and hope for the best routine but have had a few very good chances of their own.
 

SocrManiac

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My hatred for Ashley Young knows no bounds. That mak me feel less suicidal after the Juventus loss to Sassulo.

I'm going to go watch that bitch miss his PK to Italy in the Euros a few more times.