12/19 Gore Golden State

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This team shot 41.2% from the field and 29.3% from deep. They could have had and used at all the exact timeouts each of you wanted (so, like 10 more) and they still probably lose. These games are decided by the game on the court first and foremost.
 

Ed Hillel

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Why are they so fucking bad in OT? 4-7 last year and 0-3 this year. Can't be just the wrong side of the natural variance of OT results at this point.
I think a high percentage have been late blown leads, and those seem to go at a high rate for the team who came back.
 

riboflav

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He shouldn't play 41 minutes if he is hobbled during a regular season game, right?
It’s a legitimate tough call. Like 85 or 80% Tatum is going to create still gravity for his teammates and then you have to consider who would be in there for the Celtics in his stead.
 

Auger34

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Some of these posts make me feel like I am insane.

Tatum called for the ball. He got the ball facing the basket….he turned his back to the basket because he was setting up the defender for a move, not because he was discombobulated or the defender did anything
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Tatum had not even come close to hitting a jumper off the dribble tonight. Even if they were organized and that was the desired shot, it's still dumb as hell.

Notable that a close game without Porzingis turns on missing a bunch of outside shots and refusing the keep attacking the paint. More than anything regarding the last shot, the refusal to keep working the ball inside is the biggest sin.

They play overtime like baseball teams play extra innings. Just want to swing for the fences and hope to end it.
 

lars10

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"sample size" is a statistics concept but this whole "call the timeout" thing is off of vibes alone. but its a game thread too so i have that to factor in
I know.. who knows at this point..and I know it's been talked to death, but if you see your team not go to the basket for a full quarter, maybe it makes sense to get a timeout and set up a play that is intended to get someone going to the basket? Jaylen did take it twice in a row..

I know it's what other teams do..but also not subbing at all in the last 7 mins and overtime.. feel like Queta should've been put in there for Al.. even though Al did hit a three late. Also, Brissett provided a lot of energy early with 6 points in 5 minutes.. and then didn't see the floor for the rest of the game. The starters had a 9 point lead when White, Al and Jaylen came back in with 6:57 left for Queta, PP and Hauser.

Seems like the rotations got messed up because Tatum basically couldn't get subbed out because of his ankle...did he sit at all in the second half?
 

Ed Hillel

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It’s a legitimate tough call. Like 85 or 80% Tatum is going to create still gravity for his teammates and then you have to consider who would be in there for the Celtics in his stead.
Yeah, but you have to factor in the risk he makes the injury worse or hurts something else compensating.
 

Auger34

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It’s a legitimate tough call. Like 85 or 80% Tatum is going to create still gravity for his teammates and then you have to consider who would be in there for the Celtics in his stead.
I disagree. If he legitimately sprained his ankle or he’s at 80% then you take him out of the game. It’s not even a question. This team is playing for the playoffs. There’s 0 reason to risk further injury during some meaningless game in December.
 

slamminsammya

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I know.. who knows at this point..and I know it's been talked to death, but if you see your team not go to the basket for a full quarter, maybe it makes sense to get a timeout and set up a play that is intended to get someone going to the basket? Jaylen did take it twice in a row..

I know it's what other teams do..but also not subbing at all in the last 7 mins and overtime.. feel like Queta should've been put in there for Al.. even though Al did hit a three late. Also, Brissett provided a lot of energy early with 6 points in 5 minutes.. and then didn't see the floor for the rest of the game. The starters had a 9 point lead when White, Al and Jaylen came back in with 6:57 left for Queta, PP and Hauser.

Seems like the rotations got messed up because Tatum basically couldn't get subbed out because of his ankle...did he sit at all in the second half?
hey im with you on the they should sub guys in overtime games. I think thats still a league wide inefficiency, but I think its a cultural thing at this point. most starters would be pissed to get taken out of a game in overtime for a sub and the in game improvement to performance by getting fresh legs isnt worth the upset.
 

teddykgb

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They aren’t good enough at execution when the going gets tight. I’m sure plenty will want to again chalk it up to shooting percentages but I think the shooting percentages reflect their getting tight still in these situations. Bad night for Hauser to go so cold and a warning shot that you might need depth because sometimes players like Hauser just have a bad night or even series.

It was a tragic set of errors but unfortunately basically a story we have seen too many times. This is irrelevant over 82 and Porzingis helps a ton if he’s playing but you can’t bank on that being true in June and they probably cant just front run their way to a title. They have to learn how to execute in these tight spots on both ends
 

Ed Hillel

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If you can’t bank on Porzingis playing in June, they probably aren’t winning the title anyway. He’s an integral part of the team.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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They aren’t good enough at execution when the going gets tight. I’m sure plenty will want to again chalk it up to shooting percentages but I think the shooting percentages reflect their getting tight still in these situations. Bad night for Hauser to go so cold and a warning shot that you might need depth because sometimes players like Hauser just have a bad night or even series.

It was a tragic set of errors but unfortunately basically a story we have seen too many times. This is irrelevant over 82 and Porzingis helps a ton if he’s playing but you can’t bank on that being true in June and they probably cant just front run their way to a title. They have to learn how to execute in these tight spots on both ends
If they can stay healthy and grab the 1-seed you might as well start gassing up the duck boats. They are a complete and total juggernaut at home with a full squad. I agree with everything you said, but I do think they can absolutely front run their way to a banner if they meet those two conditions.
 

bosockboy

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I’d have opted for Porzingis on the front end of the back to back tonight instead of Al. Get the win tonight. Now they are gassed for Sacramento.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Ironically it would almost feel better if the team's losses were just games where they don't show up and never have a chance but because they are so good every loss is almost by definition going to be a ball breaker.

And I fucking hate Golden State and the stupid mouthguard dangling. They were more fun when it was Monta Ellis playing 48 minutes a game and no defense, expectations, or success.
 

riboflav

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Why are they so fucking bad in OT? 4-7 last year and 0-3 this year. Can't be just the wrong side of the natural variance of OT results at this point.
I know SoSH won’t like this response but small sample size in these coin flip games and I’m not convinced it’s a problem yet. Fwiw the Washington post did a story on me a few years ago about why I seem to always win close coin flip games especially those that go to overtime. And that night we lost our first one in two years. And the reporter was like oh you almost predicted this would occur. Yeah. Unless the other team or coach is bad these are going to go through the wash and come out close to 50-50. Tonight, draymond was missing. But KP missing and Tatum as maybe 85% and on the road the game could flip the other way in this situation especially when you miss lay ups and open threes. It sucks.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Ironically it would almost feel better if the team's losses were just games where they don't show up and never have a chance but because they are so good every loss is almost by definition going to be a ball breaker.
I'd have been asleep for at least a half hour by now if that was the case tonight. West coast nutpunches are the mother of all nutpunches.
 

Deathofthebambino

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So…call a timeout, and get the ball out of his hands maybe.
Joe was just asked about not calling timeout on the post game, and he said something along the lines of "Jayson did a good job of going and getting the ball, I liked the spacing..."

So, Joe liked that his hobbled star, who couldn't hit the side of a barn all night, had good spacing 30 feet from the hoop...
 

slamminsammya

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I know SoSH won’t like this response but small sample size in these coin flip games and I’m not convinced it’s a problem yet. Fwiw the Washington post did a story on me a few years ago about why I seem to always win close coin flip games especially those that go to overtime. And that night we lost our first one in two years. And the reporter was like oh you almost predicted this would occur. Yeah. Unless the other team or coach is bad these are going to go through the wash and come out close to 50-50. Tonight, draymond was missing. But KP missing and Tatum as maybe 85% and on the road the game could flip the other way in this situation especially when you miss lay ups and open threes. It sucks.
how dare you remind the game thread that things like "sample size" and "variance" are words with actual meanings
 

riboflav

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I disagree. If he legitimately sprained his ankle or he’s at 80% then you take him out of the game. It’s not even a question. This team is playing for the playoffs. There’s 0 reason to risk further injury during some meaningless game in December.
I mean neither one of us know how bad it was but I was answering a different question than you. You raise a fair point regardless.
 

radsoxfan

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If you can’t bank on Porzingis playing in June, they probably aren’t winning the title anyway. He’s an integral part of the team.
KP is clearly the one major difference maker compared to years past.

I like Jrue over Smart and more minutes for White. I never cared much about Grant and was OK with Smart leaving. PP instead of Brogdon is fine and Rob was sadly just not healthy.

But without KP, it's sadly just a similar version of past failures. We need him to be healthy to play at another level.
 

benhogan

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It’s a legitimate tough call. Like 85 or 80% Tatum is going to create still gravity for his teammates and then you have to consider who would be in there for the Celtics in his stead.
he could barely move, so you play him 41 minutes? and give him ISOs at the end of halves & games?

Either Tatum or Joe has to lessen his minutes when he's hobbled.

This team is stacked with All-Star level players with Jrue, Brown, & White. JT doesn't have to play big minutes, the Celtics will be fine.


Its a regular season loss no big deal but the process was terrible
 

riboflav

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If you can’t bank on Porzingis playing in June, they probably aren’t winning the title anyway. He’s an integral part of the team.
Jaylen has been playing awesome this month but that said I agree that with the way the team is constructed without KP they’re not winning a title. I think we all know that.
 

Auger34

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This drove home something I said on the main board today…

All of the starting 5 needs to be healthy for this team to win it all. KP, Brown, Tatum, White, Holiday. All of them.
 

riboflav

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he could barely move, so you play him 41 minutes? and give him ISOs at the end of halves & games?

Either Tatum or Joe has to lessen his minutes when he's hobbled

This team is stacked with All-Star level players with Jrue, Brown, & White.

Its a regular season loss no big deal but the process was terrible
I’d really just say I’m not Joe and live 3000 miles away from the game so idk what all went into their thinking. I was just responding to that and saying there can be a legit reason for playing him. Not saying Joe was right or wrong.
 

Auger34

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he could barely move, so you play him 41 minutes? and give him ISOs at the end of halves & games?

Either Tatum or Joe has to lessen his minutes when he's hobbled.

This team is stacked with All-Star level players with Jrue, Brown, & White.

Its a regular season loss no big deal but the process was terrible
Right. I guess it’s 50/50 for Tatum and Joe. I don’t think you can excuse one completely
 

riboflav

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KP is clearly the one major difference maker compared to years past.

I like Jrue over Smart and more minutes for White. I never cared much about Grant and was OK with Smart leaving. PP instead of Brogdon is fine and Rob was sadly just not healthy.

But without KP, it's sadly just a similar version of past failures. We need him to be healthy to play at another level.
I’m not sure it’s sad but I agree with your main point.
 

riboflav

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This team shot 41.2% from the field and 29.3% from deep. They could have had and used at all the exact timeouts each of you wanted (so, like 10 more) and they still probably lose. These games are decided by the game on the court first and foremost.
Like Bill says and most coaches today have learned from him it’s a players game but when we lose I the coach will take the blame.
 

benhogan

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I’d really just say I’m not Joe and live 3000 miles away from the game so idk what all went into their thinking. I was just responding to that and saying there can be a legit reason for playing him. Not saying Joe was right or wrong.
If a guy can't play his normal game then just take the game off. Why risk it?

With the way he looked/played just give him tomorrow night off.

He offers no gravity if he's standing around like a potted plant
 

riboflav

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If a guy can't play his normal game then just take the game off. Why risk it?

With the way he looked/played just give him tomorrow night off.

He offers no gravity if he's standing around like a potted plant
Your first two points can be valid we just don’t know enough. With the last one, idk. Would you leave him open? From what I saw the warriors still defended him like he was a top-7 guy.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Tatum 2-9 from deep tonight and I think all 9 were off the dribble. At some point the coaching staff is going to need to intervene here. We’re getting to Marcus Smart levels of no no no no yes! every time he takes one.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Tatum 2-9 from deep tonight and I think all 9 were off the dribble. At some point the coaching staff is going to need to intervene here. We’re getting to Marcus Smart levels of no no no no yes! every time he takes one.

It’s really bad. All it takes is like 3 passes for this team to find someone—often Tatum himself—wide open for great catch and shoot looks.

If someone could convince me that all of these bad and inefficient looks are creating open space for other things I am all ears but this isn’t like a football team running the ball a bunch to set up play action.

This is where someone like Cassell really needs to earn his paycheck. I know JT like most basketball players has supreme confidence in himself and that’s important but is it worth continuing to decline from 3pt range in the assumption that he will eventually turn into Harden in stepbacks?
 
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Leon Trotsky

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The loss sucked, but a lot of the takes in here are breathtaking. Its a loss on the road in December, with Steph Curry making unreal circus shots. Not a big deal (but admittedly annoying, and certainly some stuff to work on).
 

Ale Xander

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horrible horrible loss. Can;t rebound when it matters, can't make bunnies when it matters, KP can't stay healthy, that ISO at the end of regulation was pure trash, why no TO?

I'm so infuriated.

Queta better develop or they're f'ed. And JT/JB/DW HAVE to stay healthy.

Jrue takes some bad shots, man.
 

Ale Xander

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It’s really bad. All it takes is like 3 passes for this team to find someone—often Tatum himself—wide open for great catch and shoot looks.

If someone could convince me that all of these bad and inefficient looks are creating open space for other things I am all ears but this isn’t like a football team running the ball a bunch to set up play action.

This is where someone like Cassell really needs to earn his paycheck. I know JT like most basketball players has supreme confidence in himself and that’s important but is it worth continuing to decline from 3pt range in the assumption that he will eventually turn into Harden in stepbacks?
Especilly infuraiting because it;s like the 1 "skill" he learned from Kobe. Not the clutch stuff, the inefficient pull up step back 3. Ugggggh.
 

Auger34

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It’s really bad. All it takes is like 3 passes for this team to find someone—often Tatum himself—wide open for great catch and shoot looks.

If someone could convince me that all of these bad and inefficient looks are creating open space for other things I am all ears but this isn’t like a football team running the ball a bunch to set up play action.

This is where someone like Cassell really needs to earn his paycheck. I know JT like most basketball players has supreme confidence in himself and that’s important but is it worth continuing to decline from 3pt range in the assumption that he will eventually turn into Harden in stepbacks?
Beating a dead horse here but completely agree. The most damning thing for me is that none of those pull-up 3's were even close. He barely got any separation on them in the first place and they just didn't have a prayer of going in.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Beating a dead horse here but completely agree. The most damning thing for me is that none of those pull-up 3's were even close. He barely got any separation on them in the first place and they just didn't have a prayer of going in.
Especilly infuraiting because it;s like the 1 "skill" he learned from Kobe. Not the clutch stuff, the inefficient pull up step back 3. Ugggggh.
I think when he first started the side-step 3 it was a new trick, he was hitting the shots and getting clean looks. He's just not getting the same quality looks now that everyone knows he's hunting that shot.

It's fine to mess around during the regular season and save the legs for the long haul but he can't be taking 4-6 of these kinds of shots in the playoffs in tightly contested games. It's just not how they are going to win those kinds of games.
 

ObstructedView

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Yeah, hate that Tatum keeps forcing prayer 3s even when tied. Just go to the basket and force the defense to make a mistake.

That said, this sequence before that is impossible and insane.
View: https://twitter.com/CTabatabaie/status/1737450996958216226
As I said in the moment, that felt like a desperation "we need a 3 to tie it at the buzzer and don't have time to run a true play" shot. I'm not hung up on the timeouts, but they need to come up with something better there - ideally to the basket.