Why would any GM want to hand their team to Jaylen Brown? He is not going to get his own team. He's 2nd fiddle or 3rd banana.
16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity
- Thread starter RSN Diaspora
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If OKC can find someone better, they'll find someone better. But as a GM you can't stand around waiting forever to uncover a diamond. Sooner or later you have to show the players that your team is committed to getting better. The Thunder have one and possibly two more lottery picks incoming this summer and you don't want those guys spending their entire rookie deal learning to lose.
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1489718713259638787
Sources: The Philadelphia 76ers are expected to pursue Brooklyn's James Harden ahead of NBA trade deadline Thursday – and the Nets are now open to discussing a deal. Details on @TheAthletic:
Sources: The Philadelphia 76ers are expected to pursue Brooklyn's James Harden ahead of NBA trade deadline Thursday – and the Nets are now open to discussing a deal. Details on @TheAthletic:
couple firsts?
Simmons is probably as good as it gets for a non-picks centerpiece, especially since you have to know Harden will stay long term over opting out.
My favorite wrinkle of the Simmons/Harden trade talks is that Simmons decided to vaccinated at some point after his holdout began, according to Ramona Shelburne
obviously a very small chance it happens BUT Brown for Mitchell makes some sense for both teams.
Especially if Gobert/Mitchell can't co-exist
ALSO if Smart continues to play as he has recently, just make him the Captain and stop any trade speculation.
I mean it basically already is and Gilgeous-Alexander is better when he’s initiating the offense. So Brown for SGA makes a lot of sense from a fit standpoint for both teams.
Yea that would be a win/win for both clubs, overall talent-wise it would be an OKC win landing JB. The contract length evens it out
Jaylen getting moved for the ballhandler of the future this summer wouldn't be shocking
Tatum in the same conversation as SGA is odd. They are basically the same age and JT is joining his 3rd All-Star team. Even in a down year, Tatum is still a beast. SGA is ~ the 10th best PG in the league and a below avg 3pt shooter
Mitchell for Brown is a no-brainer for the Celtics: Tatum/Mitchell/TL would immediately one of the most interesting and easy-to-build around young cores in the NBA. Grant and Richardson fit perfectly there, you find backup centers, look for a one dimensional wing shooter, Smart becomes a 30 min+ Iguodala-like 6th man or starter, depending on the type of lineup you want.
You then do a Jrue-style All the Picks trade for a top-25 guy, and that team is an outside contender that is a solid contender with improvement from Tatum or Mitchell.
Donovan is 6-1 but has a huge wingspan for his height (6-10 iirc) and plays more like a 6-4 guy.
Not going to get too excited about this one since it doesn't make as much sense for Utah, but it would be a big win for the Cs imo.
https://theathletic.com/3111692/2022/02/04/cavs-celtics-at-the-trade-deadline-evaluating-the-fit-in-a-potential-dennis-schroder-trade/
Brown is not getting added to the All-Star team (I've got 4-5 guys that should still go ahead of him) so that should put the Celtics under the cap. Under no circumstances should they trade Schroder to the CAVs or BULLs for a 2nd rounder. NONE. ZERO. There is plenty of the season left, the CAVS are an EC competitor that has been on a magic carpet ride. BULLs are looking mortal recently. The Celtics should have won all 3 meetings with the CAVs. DS is a good backup PG and makes their bench a weapon in the playoffs. Either you get a protected 1st for DS (not happening with his recent play) or he rides out the rest of the season with Boston. If Tatum starts hitting 3s at 40%+ they can win a series or two in the playoffs
Brown is not getting added to the All-Star team (I've got 4-5 guys that should still go ahead of him) so that should put the Celtics under the cap. Under no circumstances should they trade Schroder to the CAVs or BULLs for a 2nd rounder. NONE. ZERO. There is plenty of the season left, the CAVS are an EC competitor that has been on a magic carpet ride. BULLs are looking mortal recently. The Celtics should have won all 3 meetings with the CAVs. DS is a good backup PG and makes their bench a weapon in the playoffs. Either you get a protected 1st for DS (not happening with his recent play) or he rides out the rest of the season with Boston. If Tatum starts hitting 3s at 40%+ they can win a series or two in the playoffs
What if a Schroder deal brought back an intriguing/promising young guard who's not making a ton of money? Not sure such a trade exists, but that would interest me.
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Would the 2nd rounder that Schroeder nets help the Celtics perhaps find a similar player that is perhaps a better fit for their roster? I don't think he's done much of anything to assume that he will be an effective backup PG in the playoffs for this team.
Schroeder has had quite a few very positive games, although fully agreed he hasn’t played as well lately.
i feel like Jaylen has also cooled off a bit lately. He doesn’t seem as dialed in on offense and still seems to be infected with some sort of turnover bug.
i feel like Jaylen has also cooled off a bit lately. He doesn’t seem as dialed in on offense and still seems to be infected with some sort of turnover bug.
He's a guy who can handle the ball and get by his guy off the dribble. There's value there, since we have a real shortage in that skill. And when things tighten up in the playoffs, it's a premium skillset to have.
I'm honestly a DS detractor more than most, but you need to get something back more than a second. Especially now that 1. it looks like the tax thing is fine and 2. we're winning.
Yea, that would be fantastic. Combining him with another player(s) to get a better player would be the utmost. $$$ is an issue around the league when Powell is getting dumped for salary. That's probably DS's biggest superpower, he's dirt-cheap
Just think DS for the rest of the season is > a 2nd round pick, that some journalists are suggesting.
DS has been a hot mess lately (maybe Achilles injury has slowed him?) but he won a few games earlier this season and can do the same on the biggest stage. I don't see addition by subtracting a bench vet. As much as I'd like to see PP develop, IME isn't going there. So it's best for Brad to keep the roster IME will use.
We like the idea of PP because he can shoot. If PP had the wiggle and first step that DS had, I'd trade the latter for a bag of balls. But he doesn't. They have similarly bad vision, look to score first, and don't make their teammates better.
DS and PP have different skill sets but are equally flawed players. That's why Ime avoids them imo.
So does Brown have his own team or not? Can't have it both ways. What team would build around Jaylen Brown? None. If that's true, why wouldn't they have to worry about him leaving if they are still awful in a few years? And why would you think Brown is comfortable in OKC, where he was probably traded to with no say in the matter? I think once a player is traded, the more likely they are to leave where they are "comfortable."
I don't see OKC trading SGA for him but that's besides the point. No one is trading for Jaylen Brown to build around him. They trade for Jaylen Brown because he fits well next to the player they are building around. Or because their star demanded a trade to Boston.
2nd rounders don't really have value. It's what teams get back in salary dumps. You'd might be able to find a player some other team is dumping for a 2nd rounder but you'd still have to match salary. And the 2nd rounder probably wouldn't be a hang up in the deal.
2nd rounders are readily available for anyone who might want one. Hell, in a few years, OKC might have to dump some 1st rounders. The C's have had to waste first rounders on draft and stash (Yabu, Zizic) and on dumping salary (Kanter) because they had no roster spots.
The value of a second aside, we now have ample data that the Celtics bench is terribly thin. That isn't to say their bench players can't be effective going forward - I think Langford is showing he has the potential to be a rotational piece in the future - but they simply aren't right now. The last thing this team needs are more scratch off lottery tickets. Instead, they need more, not less, players with NBA experience. Schroder has plenty of flaws but he is better than anything else they have.
Again, this team needs more players who can check in and not immediately become a liability on one or both ends. A draft pick may actually be that player you really want in 2026 but they need that person, fully realized with NBA skills, right now. Any trades should be made with the goal of sending help for Tatum and Brown (and Smart and TL). If they opt to trade Schroder or anyone for just draft capital, we probably need to question their commitment to the core.
Again, this team needs more players who can check in and not immediately become a liability on one or both ends. A draft pick may actually be that player you really want in 2026 but they need that person, fully realized with NBA skills, right now. Any trades should be made with the goal of sending help for Tatum and Brown (and Smart and TL). If they opt to trade Schroder or anyone for just draft capital, we probably need to question their commitment to the core.
Not sure how much truth there was to the Duncan Robinson rumor or if it's still a thing but he's returned to form of late.
Last 28 games: 90/223 from 3, .404. Up to .363 for the year.
Also, sometimes picks at the end of the 1st and 2nd rounders are players who can contribute right away. Sometimes those players get tagged with limited potential and then they end up like Brogdon, Bane or Keldon Johnson. You don't build your team hoping to draft Keldon Johnson or Bane at the end of the 1st round, but luck goes a long way. Sometimes it's even needed.
edit: Big difference drafting 19 year old Anfernee Simons vs 22.5 year old Desmond Bane.
Last 28 games: 90/223 from 3, .404. Up to .363 for the year.
Also, sometimes picks at the end of the 1st and 2nd rounders are players who can contribute right away. Sometimes those players get tagged with limited potential and then they end up like Brogdon, Bane or Keldon Johnson. You don't build your team hoping to draft Keldon Johnson or Bane at the end of the 1st round, but luck goes a long way. Sometimes it's even needed.
edit: Big difference drafting 19 year old Anfernee Simons vs 22.5 year old Desmond Bane.
Giddey is a playmaker and secondary scorer. Brown is a great finisher. He’s also the vet of the two. So Brown would be the man. But right now, OKC has two guys that are playmakers and SGA isn’t the main man anymore. He’s being asked to play off Giddey, which he isn’t terribly good at. So today the Thunder are, more or less, Giddey’s team.
Brown, by contrast, isn’t a very good playmaker. But converting kick out passes and on the break? He’s pretty damned good at that. So Giddey/Brown is a natural fit.
The Celtics have five TPE's (3 of them useful) they could use to take in a salary dump, depending upon the circumstances.
EDIT: FWIW, I do believe we are discussing an unlikely scenario for several reasons. DS is kind of unique as a veteran player given his relatively low salary but lack of Bird rights. Not many of them around. And it's unclear that Stevens would want to go over the tax just to take on another team's salary dump at the deadline. But maybe Stevens can get creative; either way, he absolutely will have to get creative this offseason.
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I'd love if the C's decided to add payroll instead of shed it. This is especially true if the going price for Powell is Payton Pritchard and salary filler.
The TPEs would give the C's a pretty big advantage with teams just looking to shed salary and not take any back.
What are the amount of the TPE's?
edit: never mind, it's right on Spotrac. And they have
6.9
9.7
17.1
0.4
0.5
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Late to the thread, does this kind of data dictate whether we should be trying to add a major piece?
View: https://twitter.com/stoolgreenie/status/1489987787419914243?s=21
View: https://twitter.com/stoolgreenie/status/1489987787419914243?s=21
Re: 2nd rounders, Josh Hart and NO, anyway they would move Herbert Jones? I'm guessing no since he's signed for the next 2 years at peanuts. I haven't seen much of him this year but he's the 2nd round gem in the early going this year.
He's already on the old side (23y,122d) but he has a 7'0 wingspan and 8'10 standing reach. From what I've read, he was projected to be at most an energy defender in very limited minutes.
NO is not a good team, but he's played in 49 of their 52 games and started 40 of them. He's averaging 29.8 minutes, .496/.370/.837, 9.6 points, 3.8 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.9 blocks. 34/92 from 3, 77/92 from the FT line.
Last 19: 33.5 minutes, .520/.383/.900, 13.4 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.9 blocks.
Could he play alongside TL if his 3 point shot is for real? TL/Jones/Tatum/Brown/ is some serious length in the starting lineup. Jones looks like he can pass the ball some too, and is effective playing the passing lanes. Appears to be a poor rebounder, unless it's a team thing. I doubt he's going anywhere, though.
Naz Reid would be another guy I'd be asking about. He has one more year after this one, a team option at 1.9 mil. He's only 2 months older than RL/AN and was an undrafted player out of college. 7'1 wingspan, 9'1 standing reach. He hasn't really improved since entering the league but he would be a decent option for a cheap, stretch 5.
He's already on the old side (23y,122d) but he has a 7'0 wingspan and 8'10 standing reach. From what I've read, he was projected to be at most an energy defender in very limited minutes.
NO is not a good team, but he's played in 49 of their 52 games and started 40 of them. He's averaging 29.8 minutes, .496/.370/.837, 9.6 points, 3.8 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.9 blocks. 34/92 from 3, 77/92 from the FT line.
Last 19: 33.5 minutes, .520/.383/.900, 13.4 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.9 blocks.
Could he play alongside TL if his 3 point shot is for real? TL/Jones/Tatum/Brown/ is some serious length in the starting lineup. Jones looks like he can pass the ball some too, and is effective playing the passing lanes. Appears to be a poor rebounder, unless it's a team thing. I doubt he's going anywhere, though.
Naz Reid would be another guy I'd be asking about. He has one more year after this one, a team option at 1.9 mil. He's only 2 months older than RL/AN and was an undrafted player out of college. 7'1 wingspan, 9'1 standing reach. He hasn't really improved since entering the league but he would be a decent option for a cheap, stretch 5.
If the price is right, maybe.
It's 100% the type of data that says we shouldn't be dumping rotation players for 2nd round picks.
Disagree strongly on Langford. I think he's good to go and just needs experience. He should be getting regular minutes as #9. His problem is lack of opportunity. The others have been less consistent.
They supposedly were willing to offer SGA and the pick to get Cunningham. Why, because they believed Cunningham was a legitimate franchise caliber player, and would be a guy they would basically control for 9 years. I like Giddy, and as much as he has shown this year, I still think Cunningham is a level above him as a player. And of course the fact that he was coming out of OK St made him even more valuable.
I don't think Brown is looking to be a 3rd banana guy somewhere, but at the same time I see no reason to believe he would suddenly fall in love with Oklahoma City if dealt there. Anything is possible, but Brown is not a laid back guy. He has always been a big city guy (Atlanta, to SF, to Bos). He is a very political guy with major interests outside the court. If I were running OKC, I would see no reason to have any confidence he would resign in a year, and more likely he would be looking to get dealt somewhere else. And with the clock already starting to tick for Summer 24 free agents, it is a HUGE factor to consider in any deal
I don't know that this impacts whether the Celtics should add a major piece, but it certainly doesn't justify dealing away veteran pieces for crap.
Any move should be based on does it help the team on the court this year, well or least not hurt.
The Celtics aren't going over the tax this year unless it's to add a MAJOR piece (like a Beal or something). It's not just about not paying tax, this year's payout is enormous, anticipated at 12-14M per team. Wyc isn't going to trade a $15+M in cold hard cash (the 14 or so plus the amount they shed to get under) and paying out 5-7M instead unless it's a major move that makes a finals run SIGNIFICANTLY more likely.
Yes, SGA, the pick that became Giddey and more picks for Cunningham, because they don’t value SGA at the level of “they only want to trade him for a franchise player at the draft”. They clearly know that it takes a lot more than Gilgeous-Alexander to acquire a potential superstar.
The primary benefit of playing in a laid back city is that the fans are happy with making the playoffs, they aren’t disappointed with first round exits. And they don’t demand that you compete for a title every year. Also, playing in a place like that leaves you with more time to work on your branding (which seems rather important to Jaylen). And there’s still the huge cash difference in the next contract. Do you really see him taking a large pay cut to play for the Warriors or Lakers? I’m just not seeing it.
So is this one good five week stretch, or has the team actually gained the form we all hoped it could? In other words, is this the REAL Boston Celtics?
Right, gotta decide in a few days. Pretty wide open Eastern Conference too.
It's a healthy starting 5 and a weak schedule. The Celtics top 6 is good (Richardson is my 6), the problem is that 3 of those 6 need Tatum on the floor with them to really pop, and so add a bad fit 7th man who doesn't really make others better, an 8th man who is just a catch and shoot guy, and the 9th man being a young defense and catch and shoot (on 1 side only) guy and you have basically one great unit, a couple okay units and a lot of units that good teams will hammer.
Turning Schroder into a better fit and maybe turning something in 10-15 into a 7th/8th man would go a long way.
I expect they mostly just ride it out, Schroder goes for salary relief, maybe they backfill a spot or two with buyouts or cheap guys. Unlikely we see a major move.
Jones is kind of a poor man's Grant. Ayo Dosunmu is playing meaningful minutes in real games. A 1st team All-American in the 2nd round isn't the worst gamble. Kessler Edwards has been OK for the Nets
Pretty happy with Brad's 2nd round pick
Is anyone more interested in seeing Hauser play than Nesmith?
Grant is a bit better than "catch & shoot". He's very aware defensively and has been using his body effectively on the perimeter
Why unload Schroder for salary if they are under the cap? I can't imagine buyouts being better than him
I didn't realize how much he's struggled this year in that regard. Coming into this season his career average from 3 was .373 (and shot a career high .418 last season), but he's at just .278 so far this year. There are 105 players who've taken 200+ 3 pointers this year (SGA has 241, 66th most) and of that group, SGA is dead last in 3p%. Maybe it's just a blip (his FT% is .811, right in line with his career average), but it's worth noting.
I mean in terms of role on Grant, he needs someone else to get him open and get him shots.
Schroder is the only reasonable way I see to get under the tax without giving up anything of future value. You could do it by paying 1 or more teams to eat Bol and Dozier, but it'll cost.
Schroder on the other hand lets you clear the (likely 2.77M) money you need and get something back (whether it's a cheap player like Hartenstein, Paschall, Pangos, etc.) or just a 2nd or two.
You need catch and shoot Corner3 guys. Hitting 52% of half your 3s from the corner bends the defense and spreads the floor for the top. There is enough traffic above the break between the JAYs, our PGs, JRich and our two passing5s that also set screens at the top. Its fukn I-95 up there with sloppy bobbles and turnovers galore. That's not on Grant and one of the major flaws of this team.
The Cs have stockpiled rubbish at the bottom of the roster. Unloading your 3rd highest scorer for a 2nd round pick and more trash, when they are a few games out of a top 4 seed is malpractice. 2nds can be bought and sold at draft time. They can easily get under the tax without moving DS. Just keep him, he's injured now and playing lousy but he's better than his recent play.
The other thing here is that no one in the East seems unbeatable. Obviously if Brooklyn gets everyone healthy, or if Philly moves Simmons for a star that changes.
It's good to be realistic, but it's also important to be realistic about the other teams, and there aren't any world-beaters out there right now in the East.
It's good to be realistic, but it's also important to be realistic about the other teams, and there aren't any world-beaters out there right now in the East.
I'm not knocking Grant, I'm pointing out that he needs to be on the floor with Tatum and/or Smart or else he doesn't get good shots, it's a point about the top heavy nature of the offensive creation.
as to Schroder... he's the 3rd leading scorer because of the starts he got when guys were hurt, when the team is healthy (and playing well) his minutes have been dwindling under 20 minutes a night since Smart got back. He's not going to be on the team long term and he's basically the 8th man right now... paying assets to keep him over getting assets for him is closer to malpractice than moving him and getting something back for a player you're not giving a big role and know won't be on the team next year.
Since we've been fully healthy and Ime made his rotation adjustment, Schroder is 8th in minutes, and 8th in points, he's just not a significant part of this team anymore, and doubtful to be one going forward. Moving on from him makes sense. In fact, moving him AND moving some pieces to get under the tax while adding someone who might be here next year is probably the smart move.
DS + assets for young blocked players has been fake trade fodder of mine for weeks BUT as a salary dump + a 2nd, no thanks. Especially now that they are 4 games over .500
DS is injured, his points, minutes and lousy play reflect that recently. BUT he's been a 15ppg player for years. We don't want to see him coming off the bench for the CAVs or the BULLs helping them win playoff games.
DS is injured, his points, minutes and lousy play reflect that recently. BUT he's been a 15ppg player for years. We don't want to see him coming off the bench for the CAVs or the BULLs helping them win playoff games.
He is just an absolute nothing out there regardless of the minutes he gets. He is #9 on this team in minutes per game. In his last 11 games played, he has a total of 8 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 steals.
It is crazy though that the # 9 on this team in mpg is Langford at only 16 mpg. Looking at most other teams in the east the # 9 guy is getting upwards of 23/24 mpg
Langford's best attribute is man to man D, which never shows well in box score stats. His second best may be that he is helpful on playing a role on offense--usually just standing in corner, but also will sometimes penetrate...again, often doesn't show up. He (unlike say DS) will stick to his role.
Those said, he has been inconsistent---in both minutes and impact---and while I remain optimistic there's a useful role player there (with some remaining chance he's more) I get the skepticism and doubt he has a lot of trade value.
I also agree, as noted in various coaching threads, that Ime is not using enough guys for the bigger picture.
Those said, he has been inconsistent---in both minutes and impact---and while I remain optimistic there's a useful role player there (with some remaining chance he's more) I get the skepticism and doubt he has a lot of trade value.
I also agree, as noted in various coaching threads, that Ime is not using enough guys for the bigger picture.
Yeah the box score doesn’t tell you whether a players role is that of PJ Tucker or that of Boban//Kanter. Romeo went through a funk about 5-6 weeks ago but I don’t see why he wouldn’t continue in that limited 3-and-D role for someone moving forward. Having said that his trade value, like most/all of our non-JT/JB players isn’t very high.
Per cleaning the glass, which excludes garbage time minutes, he is above average among wings - well above average in some categories - at blocking shots (96th percentile), not fouling (61st), offensive rebounding (80th), drawing shooting fouls, as a percentage of shot attempts (74th) and hitting and-1s (84th), and not turning the ball over (71st). Below average, sometimes well below, in a lot of other categories.