16-year-old SS Melissa Mayeux could become the first woman to sign with an MLB team

[soxhop411]

“@SportsCenter: 16-year-old SS Melissa Mayeux could become the first woman to sign with an MLB team. http://espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-life/the-buzz/article/13130218/why-16-year-old-shortstop-first-woman-sign-mlb?ex_cid=sportscenterFB

By D'Arcy Maine | Jun 22, 2015
espnW.com
Move over, Mo'ne Davis. Meet Melissa Mayeux, a 16-year-old from France who made history this weekend when she apparently became the first woman ever to be added to MLB's international registration list. As a result, she can be signed by a Major League Baseball team as soon as July 2. You know, NO BIG DEAL OR ANYTHING.

And if you're wondering just how legitimate Mayeux's chances are, she is a shortstop on France's U18 junior national team and, per Lindsay Berra of MLB.com, while virtually anyone can "technically be added to the list, only those who have the potential to actually be signed are customarily registered."

Mayeux will have a chance to further develop -- and show off -- her skills in August at MLB's European Elite Camp. She was one of four French players selected to attend and will work with a number of former players and managers, including Hall of Fame shortstop Barry Larkin. MLB Director of International Game Development Mike McClellan, who has been watching her play for the past two years, called her "fearless" and a "legitimate shortstop who makes all the plays."

If somehow you're still not sold on Mayeux's abilities or athleticism, please note that she also is a member of France's senior national softball team.

Video in attached link

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

That link is broken, but this story is awesome.

 

[Darnell's Son]

http://espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-life/the-buzz/article/13130218/why-16-year-old-shortstop-first-woman-sign-mlb

 

[CoRP]

Excellent news. The French are woefully underrepresented in MLB.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

I clicked thinking it was the "Hot French Anchor."

Still, I wasn't diappointed. Good story.

 

[Frank Fenway]

Even if she has no chance this is just one step closer to breaking the barrier. I can't wait for that to happen.

 

[uncannymanny]

Can't wait for the inevitable freak out from the "purists".

 

[Rough Carrigan]

French chicks are the new inefficiency?

 

[mt8thsw9th]

I clicked thinking it was the "Hot French Anchor."

 
At 16?    :unsure2:

 

[bibajesus]

Anyone remember Manon Rhéaume? She didn't really change much in the NHL. That was 1992. She was kinda French.

 

[Thelobsterroll]

 
At 16?    :unsure2:

Age of consent in France is 15 if that makes it a little less creepy

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
At 16?    :unsure2:

 
They are on the metric system.  That's almost 22 in the US.

 

[Harry Hooper]

That leg kick in the swing puts Mel Ott to shame.

 

[SumnerH]

Age of consent in France is 15 if that makes it a little less creepy

The age of consent is 16 in most of the US. It's still creepy.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Age of consent in France is 15 if that makes it a little less creepy

 
It's creepy that you took the time to look that up, or worse, already knew that.
 

The age of consent is 16 in most of the US. It's still creepy.

 
Also this.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

Anyone remember Manon Rhéaume? She didn't really change much in the NHL. That was 1992. She was kinda French.

 
Shortly thereafter, women's ice hockey did achieve Olympic status and a general higher level of respect. This French girl is a PR deal, just like Monae Davis (who was celebrated as a girl beating the boys, when in fact she was more like a grown woman beating pre-pubescents), and the Japanese knuckleballette from a few years ago - simple biological fact; women can NOT compete on a head-to-head basis with men at the highest level of ANY physically driven sport. They are simply smaller, weaker and slower.
 
They CAN, however, have really well executed, exciting and athletically valid competition among themselves. Baseball doesn't need a(nother) female as a novelty selling a few tickets and getting some clicks while playing indy ball, or at very best the very low minors - what baseball needs is some attention paid to and more strong athletes choosing to play female vs. female baseball.
 
Good female sports are awesome - let's celebrate that instead of making a circus out of shoehorning a few of the very best women into places where they can't truly compete.

 

[CoRP]

Beach volleyball and MMA are the two sports where I'd rather watch women instead of men.

 

[EddieYost]

 
 what baseball needs is some attention paid to and more strong athletes choosing to play female vs. female baseball.
 

 
Or women could continue to play fastpitch softball.
 
Assuming that for some reason you think women's diamond sports would be better off if they played baseball, it would take forever to implement that change, and the crossover period (some girls playing softball, some baseball) would probably have a negative impact on women's diamond sports overall.  

 

[Erik Hanson's Hook]

Even if she has no chance this is just one step closer to breaking the barrier. I can't wait for that to happen.

 
You are going to be waiting a long time. No woman will ever play major league baseball. Maybe an amazingly skilled female could survive in the low minors, but I doubt even that.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

 
You are going to be waiting a long time. No woman will ever play major league baseball. Maybe an amazingly skilled female could survive in the low minors, but I doubt even that.

 
This.
 
Not in our lifetimes.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I totally agree with the post above. No way. But it got me thinking. What would be the prototype of the ideal athlete/position if a female were to make it?
 
The one person I could somehow make a case for would be steroid bred and fed Marion Jones. 5'10", fastest woman on earth, athlete who excelled at multiple sports. I could see her being a left fielder assuming her arm is "average" on the scout 20-80 scale. She could run down balls with most men, could probably beat out infield singles and steal bases, and have a De Aza approach at the plate hitting soft liners in front of outfielders. But that's if we let her take roids. Not sure she makes the show without them. Also she'd have to go to a team that had zero payroll, she's not bumping an overpaid, slow, home run mashing former shortstop out of left field. 

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

 
You are going to be waiting a long time. No woman will ever play major league baseball. Maybe an amazingly skilled female could survive in the low minors, but I doubt even that.

 
 

 
This.
 
Not in our lifetimes.

 
Could one or both of you put a little more behind this thought? Why don't you think it's possible? I get that, by and large, there is a pretty big difference between adult male and female athletes physically, and I don't expect we're going to see a balanced male/female population in any of the major sports at any point because of that, but the idea that a handful of women might be good enough athletes to break into the highest level of a sport like baseball isn't so absurd to me. I could easily see a woman on the mound at some point. And defensive specialist center fielder or middle infielder who walks a bunch and can hit to the gaps? Not a stretch for me.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

 
 
 
Could one or both of you put a little more behind this thought? Why don't you think it's possible? I get that, by and large, there is a pretty big difference between adult male and female athletes physically, and I don't expect we're going to see a balanced male/female population in any of the major sports at any point because of that, but the idea that a handful of women might be good enough athletes to break into the highest level of a sport like baseball isn't so absurd to me. I could easily see a woman on the mound at some point. And defensive specialist center fielder or middle infielder who walks a bunch and can hit to the gaps? Not a stretch for me.

Well, just look at quantified sports, where records and times /distances over a standardized effort are maintained and you will see that even the best, most amazing women fall well short of the men - in sports where even 1/10 of a second drops you 20 spots in the rankings. There is nearly a 1 second gap between the men's and women's World Record in the 100m and a similar delta in comparable other events and sports.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

 
Or women could continue to play fastpitch softball.
 
Assuming that for some reason you think women's diamond sports would be better off if they played baseball, it would take forever to implement that change, and the crossover period (some girls playing softball, some baseball) would probably have a negative impact on women's diamond sports overall.  

It's a completely different sport. It's not a better sport, or a lesser one, but as different as tennis is from squash or badminton. I still don't understand how the feminist movement doesn't make more noise about the inherent sexism of the past that put women into softball - which was at the time a watered down version of baseball on a smaller field (and has, due to the emergence of some pretty amazing female athletes more or less outgrown that smaller field).

I am not saying there shouldn't BE softball, for men and women, just that women playing baseball should be more of a "thing"...and there's no good reason it isn't.

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

I do not think it is outside the realm of possibility to assume that there are (or will be) women with as much strength and skill as some current or former MLB players. Do you think there are no women as strong or stronger than, say, someone like David Eckstein?

 

[Thelobsterroll]

Or Dustin Pedroia?

 

[EddieYost]

It's a completely different sport. It's not a better sport, or a lesser one, but as different as tennis is from squash or badminton. I still don't understand how the feminist movement doesn't make more noise about the inherent sexism of the past that put women into softball - which was at the time a watered down version of baseball on a smaller field (and has, due to the emergence of some pretty amazing female athletes more or less outgrown that smaller field).

I am not saying there shouldn't BE softball, for men and women, just that women playing baseball should be more of a "thing"...and there's no good reason it isn't.

 
Disclaimer - I coached youth softball forever.
 
My main argument is that if one were to start a grass roots "let's have girls play baseball" movement, it would divide the pool of girls that are interested in either, and neither would thrive.  There are already too many other things competing with it.
 
If we could magically change it all at once so that girls played baseball instead of softball, I wouldn't have an issue with it.   I think you'd be hard pressed to field a team of teenage girls who could play on a 90 foot diamond though.  Maybe 75 feet.  I do agree that when the players get past about 12, that field gets awfully small. 

 

[Fred not Lynn]

If pitchers and first basemen need to wear face masks, your field is too small.

 

[Rovin Romine]

 
You are going to be waiting a long time. No woman will ever play major league baseball. Maybe an amazingly skilled female could survive in the low minors, but I doubt even that.

 
What about as a pitcher?   Say a knuckleballer?   It will happen one day. 

 

[EddieYost]

If pitchers and first basemen need to wear face masks, your field is too small.

 
No argument there.  If you go back 20 years, it wasn't as big of an issue (at the rec level at least).   Composite bats, faster pitching, and better hitting mechanics have changed that.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I do not think it is outside the realm of possibility to assume that there are (or will be) women with as much strength and skill as some current or former MLB players. Do you think there are no women as strong or stronger than, say, someone like David Eckstein?

 
Stonger?  Sure.  Bigger/heavier?  Absolutely.
 
 
Scrappier?

NEVER

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

 
What about as a pitcher?   Say a knuckleballer?   It will happen one day. 

 
It already did.  Remember Eri Yoshida's takeover of baseball?

 

[Frank Fenway]

 
Shortly thereafter, women's ice hockey did achieve Olympic status and a general higher level of respect. This French girl is a PR deal, just like Monae Davis (who was celebrated as a girl beating the boys, when in fact she was more like a grown woman beating pre-pubescents), and the Japanese knuckleballette from a few years ago - simple biological fact; women can NOT compete on a head-to-head basis with men at the highest level of ANY physically driven sport. They are simply smaller, weaker and slower.
 
They CAN, however, have really well executed, exciting and athletically valid competition among themselves. Baseball doesn't need a(nother) female as a novelty selling a few tickets and getting some clicks while playing indy ball, or at very best the very low minors - what baseball needs is some attention paid to and more strong athletes choosing to play female vs. female baseball.
 
Good female sports are awesome - let's celebrate that instead of making a circus out of shoehorning a few of the very best women into places where they can't truly compete.

Fuck right off with this. Baseball is a lifetime of training and a ton of luck with genes. No capable young girl has ever been given the chance.

 

[moondog80]

Well, just look at quantified sports, where records and times /distances over a standardized effort are maintained and you will see that even the best, most amazing women fall well short of the men - in sports where even 1/10 of a second drops you 20 spots in the rankings. There is nearly a 1 second gap between the men's and women's World Record in the 100m and a similar delta in comparable other events and sports.

Yeah, this. My nephew is a D1 distance runner, he's very good, but right now there's easily anywhere from 100 to 150 college guys who are better. I doubt he would be in the top 1,000 in the world, if they had such a thing.

His 5K is better than the women's world record.

The strength and speed simply isn't there to compete with the men who are at the tail end of the bell curve.

 

[Frank Fenway]

Women at the atheltic level of the Williams sisters if trained from the age as most mlbers would have the timing, reflexes, dexterity and the correctly toned muscle groups to be hitting at a major league level.

 

[moondog80]

Women at the atheltic level of the Williams sisters if trained from the age as most mlbers would have the timing, reflexes, dexterity and the correctly toned muscle groups to be hitting at a major league level.

I think you severely underestimate how hard it is to hit at the major league level, and also the number of men who have athletic gifts that are, in absolute terms, superior to the Williams sisters.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

No, they would not. Period...and the Williams sisters would be destroyed by any mediocre male pro tennis player, too. Every time a woman enters a men's event, Haley Wickenheiser to Annika Sorenstam, the media has eaten it up - but the results have been mediocre at best, with Sorenstam coming 96th place and Wickenheiser managing reasonable success in both Finnish and Swedish 3rd tier play, but unable to compete when her Finn team got promoted to 2nd tier.
 
Eri Yoshida got a few outs here and there the first time around, but once she'd been seen, it was just batting practice - and a lot of resentment as she was the highest paid player in her league at the time.

 

[SumnerH]

No, they would not. Period...and the Williams sisters would be destroyed by any mediocre male pro tennis player, too.

Not only would be, but were-Kaarsten Braasch was #203 in the world and beat them handily in their matches 6-1 and 6-2 (and he was on the downswing, ranked in the 400s a couple weeks later).

I do think pitching, especially knuckleball, is a bit of a special circumstance and the right woman might excel there.

 

[DJnVa]

 Do you think there are no women as strong or stronger than, say, someone like David Eckstein?

 
I think US soccer players are as strong and fast as Messi and Ronaldo.  Doesn't make them equal as soccer players though.
 
It's literally taking generations to catch up. Why wouldn't it be the same type of thing?

 

[DJnVa]

Women at the atheltic level of the Williams sisters if trained from the age as most mlbers would have the timing, reflexes, dexterity and the correctly toned muscle groups to be hitting at a major league level.

 
No. You think they are amazing, and they are, because you see them compete against women.
 
There's a reason the best women's college basketball teams in the country are routinely beaten by groups of walk-on type men in practice.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

 
No. You think they are amazing, and they are, because you see them compete against women.
 
There's a reason the best women's college basketball teams in the country are routinely beaten by groups of walk-on type men in practice.

 
This.
 
My nephew was basketball team manager at a Division 1 school with a great women's team, and the girls would regularly play pickup with intramural teams made up of men and have a difficult time with them.

 

[Hagios]

Not only would be, but were-Kaarsten Braasch was #203 in the world and beat them handily in their matches 6-1 and 6-2 (and he was on the downswing, ranked in the 400s a couple weeks later).

I do think pitching, especially knuckleball, is a bit of a special circumstance and the right woman might excel there.

 
+1 on the knuckleball
 
On the Kaarsten Braasch exhibition, he was also hitting second serves the whole match. One of the reasons why big-serving women can server harder than many men is because the women's game is (relatively) flat and low-spin. The men's game is almost like ping pong. If you can't spin, you can't win. Spin is way more important than raw power.
 
I still find the logic compelling though - that there are some exceptional women who are big enough outliers on the distribution curve for athletic ability that they could theoretically play with the men. But in practice it doesn't happen that way. Either that model is too simple, or women are socialized such that they only aspire to compete with other women and remain a big fish in small pond.

 

[smastroyin]

 
It's creepy that you took the time to look that up, or worse, already knew that.
 
 
Also this.

 

 
 
It's not creepy, he was making a Melissa Theuriau joke.
 
Fuck how this place has fallen in the rush to take ourselves so fucking seriously. 

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Scientific American recently linked to a talk by Jennifer Ring, author of a book on women's baseball, where she noted that the fastest women pitchers right now have fastballs in the 80s, and suggests it's more likely for a woman to make it in professional baseball as a pitcher than as an outfielder.
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/first-woman-mlber-will-probably-pitch/
 

 
“Just comparing men to women, how fast can the fastest female pitcher pitch?”
 
Jennifer Ring: “You know, it keeps going up. And I think this is another thing, which is, we don’t know how good women are. Boys have been taught to throw hard from the time they’re five or six years old, probably too much so, there’s too much pressure, too much arm injuries, too much year-round pressure on boys.
 
“The best girl fastball pitchers pitch in the 80s. The thing that makes it easier for girls to succeed as a pitcher on a boys’ or a men’s team are a couple of things. One is that you really have to be fast, you have to run fast and you have to have a big arm if you’re going to be an outfielder. The pitchers can win with off-speed stuff. So the girls who are the best pitchers can hit their spot, can throw off-speed stuff. They can’t compete with men throwing in the 90s at this point, although it may be coming.”

 

[BoredViewer]

Can someone please show me these women that get on a mound and throw 85mph fastballs at 60.6?

And if they exist... Great you can now do what thousands of non-prospect amateurs do.

I agree that the knuckleball is a wild card... otherwise I think the best women are probably decent high school players at mediocre high schools.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

Those 85 mph pitchers meet exactly that criteria. Let's see who shows up for women's baseball at the Pan Am Games next month...

 

[FelixMantilla]

 
What about as a pitcher?   Say a knuckleballer?   It will happen one day. 

 
I used to work with a guy who thought this way. And I agree. That's probably the only way a woman could play in MLB.

 

[Drek717]

Yeah, this. My nephew is a D1 distance runner, he's very good, but right now there's easily anywhere from 100 to 150 college guys who are better. I doubt he would be in the top 1,000 in the world, if they had such a thing.

His 5K is better than the women's world record.

The strength and speed simply isn't there to compete with the men who are at the tail end of the bell curve.

It isn't some mystery of science as to why though.  Men are taller and have a longer stride.  The precision of optimal stride length is paramount in any kind of running, be that distance, short sprint, etc..
 
Same for tennis where the game relies heavily on angle and spin.  More height allows for steeper angles and tighter spin, not to mention superior ground coverage line to line.
 
A 5'9", 175 pound woman could be every bit the equal in terms of physical quickness, agility, and strength to say, Dustin Pedroia.  The distribution would be somewhat different, but far from significant enough to prevent her success.  That comes entirely from other less tangible variables such as hand-eye coordination and natural swing mechanics.
 
Pedro Martinez was (per BBRef) 5'11", 170 pounds.  There were a lot of bigger, taller, stronger guys than him in baseball who for some crazy reason couldn't throw a 95 mph fastball like he could.
 
It comes down to sample size.  Hundreds of millions of young boys are tested and examined for those rare less obvious yet still incredibly real abilities that result in major league baseball players.  thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of young girls are.  Sample size is everything when it comes to a sport so reliant on a unique combination of what one inherently feels comfortable doing and what is then instructed over a lifetime of progressively more advanced training.  The larger the sample the greater the divide between exceptional and normal.
 
Can women be as good as men at basketball?  No, it is a game built entirely around height where even the average male is considered prohibitively short for league average.  Men's basketball takes the entire population of men and lops off about 55% who are too short.  Then it takes that and finds the most talented relative to their height.  For women to play against them you would lop off about 75% and then hope to find someone with the exceptional natural talent within a substantially reduced field.  
 
Baseball is far less size restrictive than other sports, and as a result would gender desegregate far easier than many other sports.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

It isn't some mystery of science as to why though.  Men are taller and have a longer stride.  The precision of optimal stride length is paramount in any kind of running, be that distance, short sprint, etc..
 
Same for tennis where the game relies heavily on angle and spin.  More height allows for steeper angles and tighter spin, not to mention superior ground coverage line to line.
 
A 5'9", 175 pound woman could be every bit the equal in terms of physical quickness, agility, and strength to say, Dustin Pedroia.  The distribution would be somewhat different, but far from significant enough to prevent her success.  That comes entirely from other less tangible variables such as hand-eye coordination and natural swing mechanics.
 
Pedro Martinez was (per BBRef) 5'11", 170 pounds.  There were a lot of bigger, taller, stronger guys than him in baseball who for some crazy reason couldn't throw a 95 mph fastball like he could.
 
It comes down to sample size.  Hundreds of millions of young boys are tested and examined for those rare less obvious yet still incredibly real abilities that result in major league baseball players.  thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of young girls are.  Sample size is everything when it comes to a sport so reliant on a unique combination of what one inherently feels comfortable doing and what is then instructed over a lifetime of progressively more advanced training.  The larger the sample the greater the divide between exceptional and normal.
 
Can women be as good as men at basketball?  No, it is a game built entirely around height where even the average male is considered prohibitively short for league average.  Men's basketball takes the entire population of men and lops off about 55% who are too short.  Then it takes that and finds the most talented relative to their height.  For women to play against them you would lop off about 75% and then hope to find someone with the exceptional natural talent within a substantially reduced field.  
 
Baseball is far less size restrictive than other sports, and as a result would gender desegregate far easier than many other sports.

 
Well... the bolded isn't really true. Being tall correlates very loosely with running economy. As a matter of fact the height of a "tall girl" (5'8" or so) is considered biomechanically optimal for distance. Longer legs and a shorter torso is a plus but that's not something exclusive to men. The closest thing we have to an explanation is that women on average have 1) more body fat, 2) less hemoglobin and 3) hearts that pump less blood per unit time.
 
As for Mlle Mayeux... the short clip in the video was really unflattering. I like the idea above about a female sprinter in the outfield. What about stealing bases? Surely Marion Jones could swipe a ton of bags on the basepaths. Shane Victorino's held the HS 100m record in Hawaii at 10.80. In her all-world days that's around where Jones was. 65 run tool?

 

[Fred not Lynn]

If it's just a matter of lack of opportunity, why is it that in every single sport and event where results are quantified and records are kept the women's records are, without exception, significantly slower, shorter or otherwise lesser than men's records and results?