How is that relevant to a woman playing baseball? Nobody is saying a woman is going to be MVP.Fred not Lynn said:
16-year-old SS Melissa Mayeux could become the first woman to sign with an MLB team
- Thread starter soxhop411
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The correlation between men's results and women's results in quantified events isn't just at the world record level. The 100th ranked woman is correspondingly slower (and in fact, more so as the depth in women's sport is also less than in men's) than the 100th ranked man.
Venus Williams, Roger Federer, and Rafael Nadal are all listed at 6'1". Any height related advantages would then, presumably be off the table. Are you going to take Venus in a match against either one of those guys? Or favor her against David Ferrer, all 5'9" of him? Afterall, her height would would allow greater angles and spin opportunities and great court coverage, right?Drek717 said:
You were severely underestimating the strength component. A 5'9" 175lb woman would absolutely not be the equal of the quickness, agility, and strength of Dustin Pedroia.
Logically if the majority of women are inferior then the best women would never be provided the approprite challenge to be able to take on the best men.Basically you're only giving a body builder a 10lb weight and expecting them to lift 200 lbs in competition.
Once again if given the same tiered training and level of opponents the peak female would be at a competitve level to face major league pitching.
Once again if given the same tiered training and level of opponents the peak female would be at a competitve level to face major league pitching.
Some good laughs in this thread:
http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html
How to... beat both Williams sisters in one afternoon
It was the 1998 Australian Open and the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena, had seen some of the male players practising. On the basis of what they saw, they were convinced that they could beat a man ranked around 200 in the world and wanted to set up a game. At the time I was ranked 203 so the men's tour manager mentioned the possibility of a challenge to me, thinking that I was the perfect candidate. I didn't take much persuading, it seemed like a fun thing to do.
My advice if you're ever in a position to play a match of this nature is be patient - don't be annoyed or surprised if your match against the Williams sisters is cancelled, as they both have very busy schedules. My game against them had to be re-organised at least a couple of times.
Preparation is crucial. Remember that a game like this is light-hearted - taking it too seriously would be a mistake. My training regime consisted of a leisurely round of golf in the morning followed by a couple of shandies. I turned up on court feeling suitably laid-back.
My first game of the afternoon, just a one-set match, was against Serena. A hint: try and play your match somewhere quiet, where you're not going to be pestered by big crowds or lots of press - we were out on one of the back courts at Melbourne Park, No 17 I think it was. I felt so relaxed that I didn't even warm up properly. We started playing and I raced into a 5-0 lead.
At this point Venus turned up to watch. She had just finished a press conference after a quarter-final loss against Lindsey Davenport. In the end I won my game against Serena 6-1 but by the time we were at the net shaking hands, Venus was on court, ready to have a go against me as well. The game against Venus was very similar. I ended up winning 6-2.
More on this elsewhere:
http://www.wearetennis.com/en_UK/home#/2013/04/09/karsten-braasch-the-smoker-who-ridiculed-the-williams-sisters/1487
Without his double confrontation against the Williams sisters, history would have remembered Karsten Braasch best for his unlikely service, decomposed to the point of caricature, rather than for his best ranking: a 38th place achieved in June 1994. Four years later, at the Australian Open, the German shaved off his trademark moustache and was coming towards the end of his career in perfect anonymity. Braasch was then 31 years old and still smoked a pack of cigarettes per day (which may explain why he hasn't won a five-set match in his life). Already eliminated from both the singles and doubles at the Grand Slam, he was hanging around the office of the ATP when the two Williams sisters asked whether a boy in the Top 200 was available for them to prove what they had been saying for a while. Braasch took on the challenge. After all, he was ranked 203rd in the world. Scheduled on the first Sunday of the Australian Open, the match was postponed due to rain. On the Monday, Serena (who lost against her elder sibling in the 2nd round) was the first to enter court 17 of Melbourne Park. Her opponent was prepared to meet her his way: “I've just had a few cocktails and a round of golf.” Confident, Braasch began with an additional handicap: he only allowed himself one serve. Despite this, the German gave a tennis lesson to the 16 year-old, claiming a one-sided 6-1 victory. Accustomed to fast passing, Serena didn't understand the anachronistic tennis of her opponent. How to return his chopped forehands? How to overpower him? She was unable to find a solution. “It was very hard, I didn’t think it would be so hard,” she sighed after the game. “I hit shots which would have been winners on the WTA Tour, but he caught them easily”. So easily that Braasch lit a cigarette during a change of side.
http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html
How to... beat both Williams sisters in one afternoon
It was the 1998 Australian Open and the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena, had seen some of the male players practising. On the basis of what they saw, they were convinced that they could beat a man ranked around 200 in the world and wanted to set up a game. At the time I was ranked 203 so the men's tour manager mentioned the possibility of a challenge to me, thinking that I was the perfect candidate. I didn't take much persuading, it seemed like a fun thing to do.
My advice if you're ever in a position to play a match of this nature is be patient - don't be annoyed or surprised if your match against the Williams sisters is cancelled, as they both have very busy schedules. My game against them had to be re-organised at least a couple of times.
Preparation is crucial. Remember that a game like this is light-hearted - taking it too seriously would be a mistake. My training regime consisted of a leisurely round of golf in the morning followed by a couple of shandies. I turned up on court feeling suitably laid-back.
My first game of the afternoon, just a one-set match, was against Serena. A hint: try and play your match somewhere quiet, where you're not going to be pestered by big crowds or lots of press - we were out on one of the back courts at Melbourne Park, No 17 I think it was. I felt so relaxed that I didn't even warm up properly. We started playing and I raced into a 5-0 lead.
At this point Venus turned up to watch. She had just finished a press conference after a quarter-final loss against Lindsey Davenport. In the end I won my game against Serena 6-1 but by the time we were at the net shaking hands, Venus was on court, ready to have a go against me as well. The game against Venus was very similar. I ended up winning 6-2.
More on this elsewhere:
http://www.wearetennis.com/en_UK/home#/2013/04/09/karsten-braasch-the-smoker-who-ridiculed-the-williams-sisters/1487
Without his double confrontation against the Williams sisters, history would have remembered Karsten Braasch best for his unlikely service, decomposed to the point of caricature, rather than for his best ranking: a 38th place achieved in June 1994. Four years later, at the Australian Open, the German shaved off his trademark moustache and was coming towards the end of his career in perfect anonymity. Braasch was then 31 years old and still smoked a pack of cigarettes per day (which may explain why he hasn't won a five-set match in his life). Already eliminated from both the singles and doubles at the Grand Slam, he was hanging around the office of the ATP when the two Williams sisters asked whether a boy in the Top 200 was available for them to prove what they had been saying for a while. Braasch took on the challenge. After all, he was ranked 203rd in the world. Scheduled on the first Sunday of the Australian Open, the match was postponed due to rain. On the Monday, Serena (who lost against her elder sibling in the 2nd round) was the first to enter court 17 of Melbourne Park. Her opponent was prepared to meet her his way: “I've just had a few cocktails and a round of golf.” Confident, Braasch began with an additional handicap: he only allowed himself one serve. Despite this, the German gave a tennis lesson to the 16 year-old, claiming a one-sided 6-1 victory. Accustomed to fast passing, Serena didn't understand the anachronistic tennis of her opponent. How to return his chopped forehands? How to overpower him? She was unable to find a solution. “It was very hard, I didn’t think it would be so hard,” she sighed after the game. “I hit shots which would have been winners on the WTA Tour, but he caught them easily”. So easily that Braasch lit a cigarette during a change of side.
To be fair, I think that we can throw out the Williams sisters v Braasch example, given that this says they were 16 at the time. The greatest 16 year old male baseball player would probably still get taken to school by a journeyman major leaguer. Not saying that it doesn't mean a 200-ranked man couldn't have beaten Serena when she was in her mid 20s, but it makes a huge difference.
Don't players peak earlier in Tennis, particularly females? I doubt they would peak at the same ages men do regardless given they normally develop sooner.
In 1998, these were the WTA rankings:
No Player Name Points 1997 Change
1
Lindsay Davenport [SIZE=90%](USA)[/SIZE] 5,654 3 +2
2
Martina Hingis [SIZE=90%](SUI)[/SIZE] 5,366 1 -1
3
Jana Novotná [SIZE=90%](CZE)[/SIZE] 3,734 2 -1
4
Arantxa Sánchez Vicario [SIZE=90%](ESP)[/SIZE] 3,417 9 +5
5
Venus Williams [SIZE=90%](USA)[/SIZE] 3,262 22 +17
6
Monica Seles [SIZE=90%](USA)[/SIZE] 3,226 5 -1
7
Mary Pierce [SIZE=90%](FRA)[/SIZE] 2,414 7 =
8
Conchita Martínez [SIZE=90%](ESP)[/SIZE] 2,331 12 +4
9
Steffi Graf [SIZE=90%](GER)[/SIZE] 2,261 28 +19
10
Nathalie Tauziat [SIZE=90%](FRA)[/SIZE] 2,259 11 +1
11
Patty Schnyder [SIZE=90%](SUI)[/SIZE] 2,256 26 +15
12
Dominique Van Roost [SIZE=90%](BEL)[/SIZE] 2,073 18 +6
13
Anna Kournikova [SIZE=90%](RUS)[/SIZE] 1,971 32 +19
14
Sandrine Testud [SIZE=90%](FRA)[/SIZE] 1,898 13 -1
15
Irina Spîrlea [SIZE=90%](ROM)[/SIZE] 1,830 8 -7
16
Natasha Zvereva [SIZE=90%](BLR)[/SIZE] 1,770 25 +9
17
Amanda Coetzer [SIZE=90%](RSA)[/SIZE] 1,752 4 -13
18
Ai Sugiyama [SIZE=90%](JPN)[/SIZE] 1,398 20 +2
19
Silvia Farina [SIZE=90%](ITA)[/SIZE] 1,389 43 +24
20
Serena Williams [SIZE=90%](USA)[/SIZE] 1,301 99 +79
I'd say Venus was a pretty good test, even at 16
No Player Name Points 1997 Change
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
I'd say Venus was a pretty good test, even at 16
Drek717 said:
Sorry Drek. Nice theories and all, but just 100% false. You're not going to find a female Dustin Pedroia or Pedro Martinez if you get a bigger female sample size. First of all, there is this thing called testosterone that it turns out is relatively important. Also, there is a lot more to it than just height, stride, weight, etc. You might find some women who have a few of the same measurables as some of the elite men, but that doesn't mean they can perform at the same level. None of the best women in the world at any of these sports has a prayer of hanging with the elite professional men.
This is a cool story and all, but aside from some fluky knuckleball situation or publicity stunt, she's not playing in the majors.
Perhaps the answer is a resounding yes, but is there really no chance that the #1 female baseball player (assuming a system where women played baseball from an early age) would be in the top 750 - 1200 players? That's really all we're talking about. They wouldn't need to be on the top 10 or even to 100. If a woman could crack the top 1000 then they would reasonably have a chance to play at an MLB level.
Is that actually physiologically impossible? (serious question, as human physiology is way outside my knowledge area)
Is that actually physiologically impossible? (serious question, as human physiology is way outside my knowledge area)
I can't see that woman being successful at the AA or AAA level, nevermind MLB. Heck, if one could be good enough to play Single A or Independent ball (especially Independent ball), they'd be doing so now just to get publicity and sell tickets/merch.
This is coming from a guy who thought Brittney Griner would dominate the WNBA and that someone would give her a shot at the NBDL because she seemed to have the size and strength in college to be unstoppable in the women's game.
This is coming from a guy who thought Brittney Griner would dominate the WNBA and that someone would give her a shot at the NBDL because she seemed to have the size and strength in college to be unstoppable in the women's game.
Well, I suppose there might be a better chance in baseball than sports like basketball, football and track and field…. but just because in those other sports there is definitely a 0% chance. I'd say still EXTREMELY unlikely a woman could compete in the high minors or MLB. It's a strength, speed, quickness, and agility thing, not just height, weight, leg length, etc. And it's definitely not just a small sample size thing.
FWIW, Britney Griner would get destroyed in the NBA, NBDL, or even mens major college basketball.
FWIW, Britney Griner would get destroyed in the NBA, NBDL, or even mens major college basketball.
Since it already happened, why not NHL goalie?
Or kicker or punter in football (if not for tackling)? Or eventually golf?
Or kicker or punter in football (if not for tackling)? Or eventually golf?
It didn't legitimately "happen" in the NHL. It was a publicity stunt in a pre-season exhibition.
bosox79 said:
Well, you can't really ignore tackling in the NFL, can you? It may not happen every play or even all that often, but kickers/punters do need to make tackles or at least engage a blocker during a return to allow others to make the tackle. Even if they look goofy doing it, they still alter the return path on a kick and can force a returner to not just plow through them.
As for golf, Wie's tried it a bunch and never made the cut; hasn't tried again since 2009. Sorenstam, generally considered the greatest female golfer of all time, tried it as well and missed the cut. Both were seen, even by their fellow LPGA members, as a distraction and a publicity stunt. The length of courses and the distances in the game would make it extremely difficult. Not impossible - guys like Furyk, Na, McDowell aren't super long either and certainly win tournaments - but it would take a perfect storm of other abilities on the course (driving accuracy, ball striking, putting, etc.). None of which are beyond the reach of a female, but simply due to the nature of the game - it's really hard to be good at all those things.
The leading driver on the LPGA Tour (Joanna Katler; and average drives are a bit wonky how they're computed, but it's the best we have) clocks in at 273 yds average (which would put her 193rd of 199 on the PGA Tour, right behind Furyk; before you get to #20 on the LPGA, you're shorter than every guy on the Tour), but her accuracy ranks 135th on the LPGA and her 60.7% would put her 107th on the PGA (that's even assuming all things being equal with course setup). You can't keep Tour card like that, let alone win or compete. Furyk makes up for it because he's 6th on the PGA in driving accuracy, 14th in GIRs and 9th in strokes gained. If you're short you better be damn accurate. Would it be impossible? Shit, anything's possible, so I guess it's a non-zero chance. But it's pretty close.