2014 Michigan Football: Dammit Jim, we need a Harbaugh. And a miracle worker.

SuperManny

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Dgilpin said:
So Rutgers is apparently really trying to cash in on joining the Big Ten , just went to buy tickets for the Michigan-Rutgers game . $210 a piece for upper level sideline !
 
My brother-in-law was getting tickets for this game and also got me a pair of tickets which were $150 each although I don't know where they are located. Beforehand he mentioned that Rutgers was doing dynamic pricing that started in the $100 range. 
 
http://www.scarletknights.com/tickets/dynamic_pricing14.pdf
 
edit: I checked Stub Hub and there are a bunch of tickets in the $150 range. 
 

sachmoney

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1. I still think the title should be "Salt-N-Peppers"
2. Thoughts on the season? I take it by the lack of posts that there isn't a lot of excitement. Perhaps excitement is overshadowed by fear? I feel that the defense should at least be good.
 

twibnotes

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A few thoughts:

- starting to think the D could actually be pretty damn good. They're deeper, so there should be a lot of substituting. Also love that they are going to be pressing and blitzing. This is supposedly the defense mattison has been waiting for

- plenty of skill and depth at the skill positions. Great to hear that green is in good shape and won the job bc smith is no slouch. Once butt is back, they have a great array of pass catchers

- it all comes down to the o-line. A really bad line lost two nfl players. Can nussmeier get these young kids (including a true freshman LT...gulp) to make a lot of progress? Tall order

I can't wait. Some skepticism is appropriate, but this team is far from boring. Hoke may be trying to save his job, and there is a lot of exciting young talent to watch

Those who stay...
 

Zososoxfan

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I agree the D will be very good. I don't think that's an overstatement. The backfield is very strong and deep. Peppers was not a given in this lineup and that says something. He will be on the field as a nickel to start the season most likely, as that position is mostly about athleticism and doesn't require a deep understanding of the defense, but again, I think that speaks to the quality of Taylor, Countess, Lewis, and the safeties. The LBs are experienced, which is a huge factor for the unit. Jake Ryan in the middle is a gamble, but a good one IMHO. He's a playmaker, so stick him in there and let him run around, play coverage, clobber people, and be JMFR. Morgan has been a starter the past 2 seasons and he apparently is not anymore because he was passed by younger, more talented, but previously inexperienced players. He will still see a lot of PT because the 4th LB on any team plays a decent amount, but it's exciting to see Hoke's younger and more highly touted players pushing the older players in the system. The D line is a bit thin, but Clark has lots of talent and experience, Henry is allegedly looking good, and there are a lot of talented bodies to rotate. This defense should produce a lot of pressure, 3-and-outs, and turnovers.
 
The offense is a different story. The headline is that the line is likely going to be horrible, but still less bad than last year. I'm aware that losing 2 NFL caliber tackles is typically going to make the line weaker, but those problems were really on Borges. There's a lot of other reasons the line was bad last year (e.g. some players have indicated that there was a clear division between the talented seniors and the younger OL), and while I think they may miss assignments more often, they should have fewer negative plays, which overall, would be an improvement. It's a real shame too that the line is likely going to be bad because the skill positions look decent. Devin really didn't have a fair chance to succeed last year and he is a talented kid. Having Funchess as a bona fide WR will help a lot and Chesson, Darboh, Canteen, and Norfleet makes for a decent WR corps. I'm not as bullish on the RBs as Twib, but there's certainly talent there. But, until they produce, I will assume we're lookig at Kevin Grady 2.0. At TE, Jake Butt is the only notable player and he's coming off an ACL injury. It will be a glaring weak point until he returns.
 
Even though Michigan's schedule isn't daunting by any means, I think the liberal range is 7-5 to 10-2. MSU and OSU will be tough, no question. @ND is usually a sketchy game. PSU could be a surprise this year. Don't know what to expect out of Utah. My honest expectation is 8-4, with losses @ND, @MSU, PSU, and OSU. Stealing one of those isn't out of the question by any means, and a 9-3 season would be more than welcome for me.
 

Dgilpin

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Zososoxfan said:
Even though Michigan's schedule isn't daunting by any means, I think the liberal range is 7-5 to 10-2. MSU and OSU will be tough, no question. @ND is usually a sketchy game. PSU could be a surprise this year. Don't know what to expect out of Utah. My honest expectation is 8-4, with losses @ND, @MSU, PSU, and OSU. Stealing one of those isn't out of the question by any means, and a 9-3 season would be more than welcome for me.
 
I'm going to disagree on this, I think the schedule will be quite tough since all of their tough opponents will be on the road. (@ND, @MSU, @NW, @OSU) That looks like a 1-3 stretch to me and very easily could be 0-4. With that in mind I like 8-4 probably as good as its going to get, unless something fluky happens and O-Line makes some great strides. The good news is I really can't see them finishing much worse than 7-5.
 

Granite Sox

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Some good summaries. Only things I think I can add:

They are a little thin at safety at the moment with Hill hurt. Wilson and Clark will start, but it still sounds like Dymonte Thomas is still a bit of a spazz. They do seem deeper than normal at CB with Countess, Taylor, Peppers, Lewis, Stribling, Hollowell, Richardson, et al.

Ryan Glasgow is apparently getting the start at NT. A little surprising that a walk-on who got minimal snaps last year would start. Pipkins is listed 3rd on the depth chart coming off injury. Maurice Hurst Jr. has received some good reviews, so hopefully he will assert himself.

I'm nauseous about the OL. During his presser today Hoke referenced the need to clean up mental mistakes with this group. Aside from Cole, we're talking about guys in their third year or longer in the program still trying to fix mental errors. The new system is supposedly a more simplified zone blocking scheme, and these young men still can't get it right. This goes on the coaching staff, as far as I'm concerned; Nussmeier is probably having a coronary.

I'll go with 8-4 as well, with Hoke returning next year. Confidence in the direction of the program will continue to erode.
 

twibnotes

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Dick Pole Upside said:
I'm nauseous about the OL. During his presser today Hoke referenced the need to clean up mental mistakes with this group. Aside from Cole, we're talking about guys in their third year or longer in the program still trying to fix mental errors. The new system is supposedly a more simplified zone blocking scheme, and these young men still can't get it right. This goes on the coaching staff, as far as I'm concerned; Nussmeier is probably having a coronary.
Agree with the sentiment here. Not every recruit pans out, but Hoke and staff have brought in a lot of highly ranked o-linemen. There is a point where you expect to see some production and improvement. Bringing in Nussmeier and a simpler system is definitely a step in the right direction...hopefully things improve quickly enough to have a decent season
 

Zososoxfan

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Dick Pole Upside said:
Aside from Cole, we're talking about guys in their third year or longer in the program still trying to fix mental errors. The new system is supposedly a more simplified zone blocking scheme, and these young men still can't get it right. This goes on the coaching staff, as far as I'm concerned; Nussmeier is probably having a coronary.

I'll go with 8-4 as well, with Hoke returning next year. Confidence in the direction of the program will continue to erode.
 
While my patience is running thin as much as the next fan, the bolded isn't the right way to look at things. Yes, this is the 3rd year in the system for a lot of these linemen, but they're still RS sophs. Mgoblog and other outlets have shown studies where there's a strong correlation between experienced OL and offensive success, so while these are highly recruited guys and they have been in the system for some time, next year and '16 are when you would really expect the system to blossom. Furthermore, I think the OL's growth was stunted because of Borges' ridiculous approach to offense and in particular the OL. Hopefully, Nuss will mitigate some of that, but I expect these guys to at least play with more confidence this year and not shit the bed every Saturday like last year. I would expect this OL to start slow, but improve significantly as the year goes on as they become more familiar with the system and their talent can take over. The schedule breaks nicely in that regard because other than @ND, UM doesn't play any good opponents until October 11 home to PSU. IMHO, that game will us how good this team is, provided that they win 5 of the first 6, which if they don't, will tell us they're pretty shitty earlier than that.
 

mgoblue2

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If the O-Line doesn't suck as bad as last year, this could be a 1 or 2 loss season. On the back of that, Gardner could become a Very Good QB, and the Green/Smith duo could make hay. The defense looks good again, and the back seven is as good a unit as any in the B1G. I think the four road games are tough, but Notre Dame lost some pretty good players, OSU lost Miller, and Northwestern doesn't have Mark, right? So there's a good chance that with a strong start and a win at ND the team gains confidence heading into the start of conference play. In short, Mason Cole please be a good LT.
 

sachmoney

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Oh, The Horror.
 
I would agree with the general sentiment that the defense should be strong this year. I do think that there are some questions on the front four, but as mgo said, the back seven is as strong as any in the B1G. I do expect this defense to be quicker and more physical. I do expect there to be more turnovers and more big plays from that side of the ball. And yes, I do expect Jabrill Peppers to be everything that was advertised and more.
 
I wonder what Nuss will do with the offense. Gardner is one of the most dynamic playmakers in the country in my book, but having a shaky offensive line can make any quarterback look bad. I feel like we have similar sentiment to what we had last year. "The OL can't be any worse." I mean, that's the season, right? If we can protect Gardner, I think that he can have an amazing season. We have the talent at receiver for that to happen with Funchess & Co (wait til Jake Butt gets back). It's just a matter of controlling the chaos that was our pass protection last season.
 
I'm usually optimistic heading into the season, but I've been really reeled back by the last couple of seasons. The offensive line scares me, but everything else keeps me hopeful.
 

WayBackVazquez

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And as impressed as I am with Gardner's football IQ against this powerhouse, I'll bet another $500 that Shane starts at least two games this season.
 

twibnotes

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WayBackVazquez said:
And as impressed as I am with Gardner's football IQ against this powerhouse, I'll bet another $500 that Shane starts at least two games this season.
I hope they can redshirt him
 

bowiac

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WayBackVazquez said:
And as impressed as I am with Gardner's football IQ against this powerhouse, I'll bet another $500 that Shane starts at least two games this season.
Tempting as that is, Gardner's gonna get crushed behind this line, so I can't take that.
 

sachmoney

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Or play well enough to earn it.
 
I'm happy to see him out there and get a chance to make mistakes and learn from them in a low pressure situation, but he doesn't seem close to ready. And for the record, I think that he would get the second start regardless of how he performs in the first. It seems like Wilton will red shirt and I don't see Bellomy overtaking Shane. We need Devin to stay healthy though.
 

mgoblue2

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twibnotes said:
Any rumors as to why peppers is out?
He was on ST and took a slightly dirty helmet to the knee. Best to keep him out, if only as a precaution.
 

bowiac

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sachmoney said:
Or play well enough to earn it.
 
I'm happy to see him out there and get a chance to make mistakes and learn from them in a low pressure situation, but he doesn't seem close to ready. And for the record, I think that he would get the second start regardless of how he performs in the first. It seems like Wilton will red shirt and I don't see Bellomy overtaking Shane. We need Devin to stay healthy though.
It seems he's mostly dealing with a free rusher every time he throws a pass, which isn't great. Being a lefty with this line may not be great. 
 

WayBackVazquez

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What does doesn't seem close to ready mean? Gardner didn't seem close to ready to me last year throwing 7 INT against CMU, Akron, and UConn.

Let's just agree to disagree here. I think Gardner is awful. You think Shane Gardner is...unready.
 

sachmoney

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The game needs to slow down for Shane. Yes, when there is a free rusher, you've got to get it out quickly, but Shane gets rid of the ball in a rather panicky fashion, giving his receivers little chance to make the play. He's got a little more time than he thinks and he can probably take a little bit off his throws too. When he does have time, he often tries to force it in with his big arm. With time, hopefully, he'll be a good quarterback, but he's not that right now and he's nowhere near Gardner's level.
 
Yeah, we're definitely agreeing to disagree.
 

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I don't care if it's App St , but it's great to see the Michigan RB's making some big plays
 

twibnotes

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WayBackVazquez said:
What does doesn't seem close to ready mean? Gardner didn't seem close to ready to me last year throwing 7 INT against CMU, Akron, and UConn.

Let's just agree to disagree here. I think Gardner is awful. You think Shane Gardner is...unready.
How many good games do you need to see from Gardner? Being serious
 

WayBackVazquez

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A road win against a decent team, or beating OSU, or beating MSU, or winning a bowl game.

I've said this for almost two years now: I know he can beat shitty teams at home. If that's all he can do, I'd rather see him catch passes.
 

twibnotes

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WayBackVazquez said:
A road win against a decent team, or beating OSU, or beating MSU, or winning a bowl game.

I've said this for almost two years now: I know he can beat shitty teams at home. If that's all he can do, I'd rather see him catch passes.
Fair enough but if you think Morris is going into Columbus or East Lansing and getting a win, your dislike of Gardner is clouding your vision IMO
 

Zososoxfan

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Very happy with the win. Overwhelmed an overmatched opponent and exorcised some demons, although they will never be fully gone. Anyway, the defense looks very good, especially the secondary. Although, Ryan in the middle did not look completely comfortable. The d line looks good, but we wont be able to really tell until THIS Saturday when they go up against some top talent. Devin2Devin looks incredible and other receivers looked good too, namely Darboh and Chesson. The line played fine, but much like the d line, a more challenging test comes up this Saturday. Lastly, Smith and Green looked very good running the ball.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Big recruiting get last week with Darian Roseboro, a 6'4", 283 lb DT, and Rivals' #42 player in the class of 2015.
 

twibnotes

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I hope Hoke is educating the players about the ND-Mich history and the way ND backed out of the rivalry. Terrific chance to pound the "This is Michigan" theme and get the team riled up.

Really want a win Saturday.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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Whatever the reason, something about Hoke has made this team a constant threat to beat anyone at home, and a constant threat to get blown out by anyone on the road.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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The switch to a physical offense lasted, what, four quarters against an overmatched Sun Belt team in its transition year to the FBS and maybe ten minutes against a top-25 opponent.

If you can't find a way to help a talent like Green bang out three and a cloud of dust whenever you need it, you might as well just pack it in and go home.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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I like Harbaugh. I don't know if he would have been a better choice, but I admired him for speaking up about the educational hypocrisy at Michigan and many other schools. He was also in my grade growing up, and I've played against him and with him. He was an absolute monster even as a kid. Most competitive person I've ever met, plus freakish talent.
 

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Yeah my undergrad alma mater (Duke) is better than my grad school alma mater. Maybe this belongs in the 15 years ago thread in P&G
 

twibnotes

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Chemistry Schmemistry said:
I like Harbaugh. I don't know if he would have been a better choice, but I admired him for speaking up about the educational hypocrisy at Michigan and many other schools. He was also in my grade growing up, and I've played against him and with him. He was an absolute monster even as a kid. Most competitive person I've ever met, plus freakish talent.
Fuck him. He bad mouthed michigan publicly. UM gave him a helluva lot more than he gave it.
 

twibnotes

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Dgilpin said:
Let's hope the 49ers go 8-8
They need to start thinking out of the box bc mich isn't a great destination anymore. Need a bill obrienesque hire perhaps
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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twibnotes said:
Fuck him. He bad mouthed michigan publicly. UM gave him a helluva lot more than he gave it.
 

He was a great quarterback here. And he didn't say anything that wasn't absolutely true.

So... do we stick with Captain Turnover at quarterback, or move to the guy with the golden arm who doesn't seem to have a brain in his head?
 

twibnotes

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Chemistry Schmemistry said:
  

He was a great quarterback here. And he didn't say anything that wasn't absolutely true.

So... do we stick with Captain Turnover at quarterback, or move to the guy with the golden arm who doesn't seem to have a brain in his head?
Bc it may have been true is no excuse. He could have said it to the many people of influence he knows who are associated with the school. He bad mouthed UM publicly - not a cool move.

Keep putting Gardner out there if only bc Morris won't learn the ropes behind this line.

Really a low point for the program tonight. Not sure Hoke can recover - absolute disgrace.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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Harbaugh is a lot of things, but he has never been cool. Sometimes you find you trust the guy who you know simply can't keep his mouth shut when he cares about something. I like Hoke, though. He's getting athletes in here. We just don't have a quarterback, that's really all there is to it. If Morris were just smarter with the ball, I think he's got the ability to keep defenses honest with quick, accurate strokes and then punish them when they start cheating on short routes. With Gardner, defenses are just focusing on keeping him in the pocket, filling holes, and keeping enough pressure on to force the inevitable turnovers. This was a terrible game today, though. Showed Michigan can be controlled with bend-no-break. That's why I think maybe Morris should get a look next week.
 

twibnotes

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Chemistry Schmemistry said:
Harbaugh is a lot of things, but he has never been cool. Sometimes you find you trust the guy who you know simply can't keep his mouth shut when he cares about something. I like Hoke, though. He's getting athletes in here. We just don't have a quarterback.
I wish I agreed.

We don't have an offensive line (again)

We don't have physical toughness, especially on the road

We don't have a strategic/gameplan advantage typically

I don't see how you can continue with hoke. He's either not recruiting as well as we think or he doesn't know how to coach em up. Results on the field speak for themselves
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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We don't have physical toughness, especially on the road...

Results on the field speak for themselves
Today certainly moves the needle more than a notch or two in this direction. I was 95% with Hoke this morning. Not as much right now. But I think there's only so much you can do with a quarterback who can't keep defenses honest.
 

twibnotes

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Chemistry Schmemistry said:
Today certainly moves the needle more than a notch or two in this direction. I was 95% with Hoke this morning. Not as much right now. But I think there's only so much you can do with a quarterback who can't keep defenses honest.
He's the coach the though. If his qb sucks, he needs to find a viable alternative. He needs to coach up Morris or help Gardner improve - something. The excuses are running out
 

WayBackVazquez

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twibnotes said:
Keep putting Gardner out there if only bc Morris won't learn the ropes behind this line.
Do you honestly believe Gardner will ever beat a decent team on the road? What is the down-the-road benefit of putting a lame duck QB out there for guaranteed losses when next year's QB, who is burning eligibility anyway, sits on the bench?
 

twibnotes

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WayBackVazquez said:
Do you honestly believe Gardner will ever beat a decent team on the road? What is the down-the-road benefit of putting a lame duck QB out there for guaranteed losses when next year's QB, who is burning eligibility anyway, sits on the bench?
Let's stop kidding ourselves. Debating Morris and Gardner is rearranging the deck chairs. Hoke isn't the answer, and that's what matters.