2014 Michigan Football: Dammit Jim, we need a Harbaugh. And a miracle worker.

[WayBackVazquez]

Gimme a break - context matters. Maybe Nussmeier would be productive under the right circumstances, but half of the last few pages are rightfully focused on the very real possibility that this team needs a new head coach. Doubtful Nuss would last such a change.

As for what they pay the coordinators, who cares. It means nothing if they don't get results.

 
There is absolutely no way Nussmeier gets fired this year along with the accompanying nearly $2 million buyout. I'll happily bet you plenty of cash on that.
 
EDIT: Looks like there may be an escape clause on the buyout for Nuss if Hoke gets fired. Obviously that changes things.
 
But frankly, if Hoke gets fired midseason, I would expect Nussmeier to take over as interim, and then probably stay on as either OC or QB coach.

 

[Average Reds]

The big question is the direction of the program. RichRod went 3-9 with Lloyd Carr's guys, and Hoke went 11-2 with RichRod's guys. That's pure coaching to me. Hoke is getting better-ranked recruits than RichRod, but RichRod struck gold in his own scheme with Denard Robinson. Still, as I wrote, Hoke would have to lose 26 straight to match RichRod's winning percentage.

 
This year's team is the first that is 100% made up of Brady Hoke's recruits.  And as you pointed out, his recruits were much more highly rated than Rodriguez.
 
Hoke either can't judge talent or he can't coach it.  Either way, I want him gone.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

 
This year's team is the first that is 100% made up of Brady Hoke's recruits.  

 
This is of course not true. The starting QB, for example, committed about two years before Hoke was hired.

 

[twibnotes]

 
This is of course not true. The starting QB, for example, committed about two years before Hoke was hired.

You've been clear that you view Morris as a better option than Gardner. Maybe that will be true in the long run - I really hope so and wouldn't be shocked. But let me ask you this:

while hoke did not recruit gardner, he clearly views him as the better option...with that decision made, do you think hoke and Nuss have maximized gardner's value? Are they using him correctly?

Obviously qb is a key position, but you are bending over backwards to defend hoke just bc, while most of the team is his, the qb is not. This would be a lot easier to swallow of Morris didn't look so completely overwhelmed vs minny. There's not a lot of data on Morris but here is what we know so far:

- looked decent vs Kansas st in the bowl game but was clearly using a very limited playbook

- was not able to take the job from gardner who is, in your eyes, not a good qb

- looked awful, overwhelmed even, vs Minnesota who no one is going to confuse with the 85 Bears defense

When is hoke accountable for the qb position? Next year?

 

[WayBackVazquez]

I'm not going to spend more time discussing this with you because you are clearly not listening to me. I'm not bending over backwards to defend Hoke just because. I haven't said anything more positive about him than that if he wins five out of the team's next six games, I would prefer the stability of keeping him around than change for change's sake.

Beyond that, all I've said is that I'm not willing to give up on a kid at QB who was one of the three or four most highly-regarded in the country when the only time he has ever gotten the majority of practice snaps for more than a week, he performed what I considered to be quite well. Especially in favor of a marginal three-star recruit with a noodle arm.

You want to rage against Brady, man, don't let me get in your way. It's not at all my fight.

 

[twibnotes]

I'm not going to spend more time discussing this with you because you are clearly not listening to me. I'm not bending over backwards to defend Hoke just because. I haven't said anything more positive about him than that if he wins five out of the team's next six games, I would prefer the stability of keeping him around than change for change's sake.

Beyond that, all I've said is that I'm not willing to give up on a kid at QB who was one of the three or four most highly-regarded in the country when the only time he has ever gotten the majority of practice snaps for more than a week, he performed what I considered to be quite well. Especially in favor of a marginal three-star recruit with a noodle arm.

You want to rage against Brady, man, don't let me get in your way. It's not at all my fight.

Fair enough - I'm not giving up on Morris either. I just feel strongly that coaching is critical to college qb performance, and I'm not convinced hoke can shepherd Morris forward the way any young qb needs to maximize his talents.

No one wants change for change's sake. They need to get it right.

And let's not kid ourselves. This team is far more likely to lose 5 of the next 6. It's a bad football team bc the players haven't improved and in some cases they play stupid outdated football (see spread punt, lack of)

 

[bowiac]

AD Search on (again?)

Would be nice to get this done before the end of the year, although that's obviously unlikely.

 

[sachmoney]

I hope that that's the case (Brandon getting ethered). Jeff Long would be interesting in that he's a very good candidate for the position but also has a personal connection with Brady. He and Brady played high school ball together. Brady was the center, Long the QB. It would be awkward if the first move Long had to make was firing Hoke. 

 

[twibnotes]

I hope that that's the case (Brandon getting ethered). Jeff Long would be interesting in that he's a very good candidate for the position but also has a personal connection with Brady. He and Brady played high school ball together. Brady was the center, Long the QB. It would be awkward if the first move Long had to make was firing Hoke. 

Imagine that cadence

"42 down ready...Omaha! Omaha! You're fired..."

 

[twibnotes]

Interesting read on today's Regents meeting and what it may or may not mean for Brandon and the athletic dept

http://michigan.scout.com/story/1469312-are-michigan-regents-taking-aim-at-the-a-d

 

[sachmoney]

DB won't resign but he'll be under pressure once the regents make a recommendation to Schlissel that he be fired, according to Feldman. He has something like a $3.6 million buy out or so I've heard.

 

[twibnotes]

All of it is sad to watch. DB comes across as arrogant and tone deaf (which I believe hurts him more than the actual strategies and policies he has promoted), and Hoke seems overwhelmed...BUT both men seem to love the school and want what is ultimately best for it. You hate to see people lose their jobs, especially when it's a dream job.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

ESPN's take: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11710469/is-regents-meeting-tipping-point-michigan-ad-dave-brandon

Sounds like he brings in the money, which is a big part of his job, but he ruffles a lot of feathers. It's hard to figure which way to go on this. I think the football losses are frustrating, and that makes people angry.

 

[twibnotes]

ESPN's take: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11710469/is-regents-meeting-tipping-point-michigan-ad-dave-brandon

Sounds like he brings in the money, which is a big part of his job, but he ruffles a lot of feathers. It's hard to figure which way to go on this. I think the football losses are frustrating, and that makes people angry.

If you alienate your customers, you won't be bringing the money for long.

What's more, alumni giving (along with applications) is almost definitely impacted by the success of the football team. They need to solve that problem above all else.

 

[Zososoxfan]

The idea that DB is doing a great job at fundraising is a bit of a red herring. There's data showing that DB hasn't outperformed previous Michigan ADs or comparable school ADs - the money bump is due in large part to the increased value of TV contracts (a natural progression, or Delaney's work if anything) and revenue from luxury boxes (Bill Martin). DB's spent the money pretty well in getting upgrades to athletic facilities, but also has squandered some away (skywriting) and has really hurt long term fundraising prospects, so it's overall a substantial negative.
 
Twib, I hear what you're saying and if DB is remorseful/humble I would agree with you. I've read that he donates his salary back to UM and is otherwise a big donor. If he made a concerted effort to rectify his mistakes, I personally wouldn't have a problem with him staying, but at this point, I think the situation is too toxic to overcome for him. Brady obviously means well too, and because of that, I could see him staying involved as a DLine coach or in the AD, but he's really not doing a good job as a coach of the football program. Namely, the Shane situation, anachronistic tactics (punting), and minimal player development.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

I can live with the punting. Middle of the pack net, three yards from the top 20, but a real boomer who is in the top 20 in gross. If we had a quarterback, no one would notice.

 

[twibnotes]

I can live with the punting. Middle of the pack net, three yards from the top 20, but a real boomer who is in the top 20 in gross. If we had a quarterback, no one would notice.

The problem is, there seems to be a consensus that the spread punt works better. I'm not going to pretend to know X's and O's well enough to explain why it's better, but it's bothersome that Hoke has no explanation for why he does it the way he does. He's giving belichick-style answers (that's how we do it) without the success to justify it.

 

[sachmoney]

How in the fuck is punting the first thing you go to when thinking about "Hoke's anachronistic tactics?"

 

[twibnotes]

How in the fuck is punting the first thing you go to when thinking about "Hoke's anachronistic tactics?"

It's just one of the more easily identifiable examples of his stubbornness and "anachronistic" tactics. Call it a metaphor if you want. There are teams who do well with pro style offenses or even manball (eg, Stanford, Alabama recently), but there's no good argument not to run the spread punt.

From mgoblog:


MGoFollowup: What’s your opinion of the spread punt formation vs. the traditional punt formation?

“Uh, we don’t use it.”
MGoFollowup: Is there a rationale for that?

“I think, you know … I’m more comfortable with what we use. That’s the rationale.”

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

Do any NFL teams use the spread punt? NFL coaches are incessant workers who won't hesitate to "borrow" anything that works. I'm not fond of Hoke's response, but football coaches sometimes get annoyed by questions for no apparent reason. Maybe the spread punt isn't optimal when you have a guy with a really strong leg. I think the problem is more likely in punt coverage than in implementation. If you're giving up 14 per, either it's small sample size or your punt cover guys aren't doing their jobs right. There's no question Hagerup can boom it.

 

[Senator Donut]

Do any NFL teams use the spread punt? NFL coaches are incessant workers who won't hesitate to "borrow" anything that works. I'm not fond of Hoke's response, but football coaches sometimes get annoyed by questions for no apparent reason. Maybe the spread punt isn't optimal when you have a guy with a really strong leg. I think the problem is more likely in punt coverage than in implementation. If you're giving up 14 per, either it's small sample size or your punt cover guys aren't doing their jobs right. There's no question Hagerup can boom it.

The NFL does not use the "spread" punt (I assume you're talking about the "shield" punt Rich Rodriguez used) because illegal man downfield penalties are in effect even in punt formations. There is no real benefit to spreading out ineligible receivers if they cannot go immediately downfield upon the snap.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

Yes, I need to read up on this more. There is no limit on eligible receivers on punts in the college game. And I thought twib was talking about the rugby-style directional punts that a lot of teams use these days. Advantage being that you can eliminate return yards with a poor punter and you have a built-in fake play, but the disadvantage being a potential mess if your punter messes up and hits a good kick down the center of the field.

So, terminology clear now.

A "spread" punt is what Michigan uses now - the traditional everyone on the line of scrimmage, releasing when they finish their blocks. Disadvantage being that you need bigger guys at the line, who may not be as fast to get in their lanes and may be poorer tacklers.

A "shield" punt is what many teams use now - put three linemen types back 7-8 yards in a tight shield protecting the punter. The other seven at the line get downfield as fast as they can - you use linebacker and safety type because they are likely better at tackling. If the punter fields the snap cleanly and the shield doesn't break down, this reduces the risk of a block. And there's no disadvantage to having a good punter.

Given that Michigan is in the top 20 in gross punting yards, but around 70th in net punting yards, this suggests a switch to using a shield style is warranted. Not game-breaking warranted, but one of those details you implement to address problems.

But for things like this, especially at the college level, this is something for a special teams coach, not a head coach.

 

[twibnotes]

Mgoblog had a good piece on what the spread punt is all about

http://mgoblog.com/content/hokepoints-what’s-spread-punt

 

[sachmoney]

It is easily point out-able, but it's punting. There are a million other things that have a much more dramatic impact on the team that I'd point out. Forcing power on spread personnel. Not making halftime adjustments. Many more on his stubbornness.
 
My point is that it's freaking punting.

 

[twibnotes]

It is easily point out-able, but it's punting. There are a million other things that have a much more dramatic impact on the team that I'd point out. Forcing power on spread personnel. Not making halftime adjustments. Many more on his stubbornness.
 
My point is that it's freaking punting.

I think we all know as mich fans that there are plenty of other things to highlight:

- manball tendencies

- poor use of gardner who is not a good pocket passer but can do other things

- slow pace on offense. Almost no hurry up ever (even when starters are in vs nd late in the game with a massive deficit)

- and yes, the headset

And on and on...

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Interesting read on today's Regents meeting and what it may or may not mean for Brandon and the athletic dept

http://michigan.scout.com/story/1469312-are-michigan-regents-taking-aim-at-the-a-d

 
From the linked story:
 

Was that a shot across the bow? 
That’s the question many Michigan fans are openly pondering after hearing University of Michigan Regent Denise Illitch’s response to a question about a “holy crisis going on in Ann Arbor with David Brandon“ on WWJ CBS-Detroit.
“The reaction has been very very strong,”Illitch said. “I’ve received hundreds of letters and I know my fellow regents have as well.”
The regents will be meeting at the Riverfront Center on the campus of University of Michigan-Flint at 3pm.
“We’ll be discussing it at the meeting,” Illitch told WWJ.
 

 
 
I am pretty sure Denise Illitch is Mike Illitch's daughter, and they either own or used to own Little Caesars.  Dave Brandon came to Michigan directly from Domino's Pizza, their larger competitor.  The Board should have someone other than her front and center on this, from an optics perspective-even with all of his faults, it looks bad if someone who was a business competitor is leading the charge to get rid of him.  

 

[sachmoney]

The lack of posting prior to this game tells you all you need to know about how we feel about this game right now. Regardless, a Go Blue is necessary. Pull a win out of your ass, boys. Beat Sparty.

 

[Dgilpin]

I'm just hoping for a competitive game

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Not bad for 27 minutes

 

[twibnotes]

This is the stuff that gets me...

@rodger_sherman: Brady Hoke could’ve had the ball with over a minute but instead didn’t use timeouts and ran to end the half on his first play. Stellar.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

I started to watch, but the ease in which they scored the first touchdown, then the targeting thing and the kid and his teammates and coaches and the crowd so obviously pleased with it, then Gardner doing his clearly intimidated turnover dance on the subsequent play... I think I'm done for a while. This is not Michigan football. Hoke came in trying not to lose by 100, and the team came in trying not to be exactly what State turned them into within five minutes... somebody's bitch.

 

[Dgilpin]

The offensive execution is just so poor

 

[twibnotes]

We gain some yards on a supposed catch that was clearly iffy...do they rush to the line and run another play? No. They huddle, giving dantonio time to challenge the play.

The coaching is TERRIBLE. Worst coached team in the country.

 

[bowiac]

Coaching is inherently opaque, and it's hard to figure out what's going wrong and who's fault is what. That said, Brady Hoke is the worst coach or manager I've ever seen (which isn't saying much admittedly).
 
I needed to turn the game off, as I found myself starting to root for them to get embarrassed, which is not a healthy or productive feeling.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

I don't see Hoke as capable of saving his job at this point. We're getting past the point of no return, even if they're somehow competitive against Ohio State. But Gardner is so incredibly clueless as a quarterback that it does infect the entire team.

 

[twibnotes]

Gardner is so incredibly clueless as a quarterback that it does infect the entire team.

This is true. Still three strikes against the coaching staff:

1) gardner has his issues but does SOME things well. They haven't been able to build the offense around his strengths (running, namely)

2) they haven't developed another qb to be even worthy of "game manager" status

3) they haven't helped gardner improve at all. He has in fact regressed

 

[Dgilpin]

I hope that last TD by Michigan St is remembered when Michigan finally gets turned around

 

[dcmissle]

State ran the ball the entire drive, no? Did they call a time out?

If they did just to score, fair enough. But if they didn't and just ran it into the end zone, that is Michigan's problem.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

I don't give a damn about the touchdown (I stopped watching in the first quarter anyway). They could have thrown the entire time and it wouldn't make a difference. The point is that Michigan didn't bring a competitive team to East Lansing today.

 

[dcmissle]

Yes and it is 6 out of 7. Coach is dead man walking, and the next hire is pretty important.

 

[Dgilpin]

State ran the ball the entire drive, no? Did they call a time out?

If they did just to score, fair enough. But if they didn't and just ran it into the end zone, that is Michigan's problem.

30 secs left in a 3 score game , I don't think it's necessary to be running plays . Multiple chances that drive to just take a knee and end it. But whatever , I just look forward to returning the favor.

 

[twibnotes]

30 secs left in a 3 score game , I don't think it's necessary to be running plays . Multiple chances that drive to just take a knee and end it. But whatever , I just look forward to returning the favor.

I'm reading that one of the Michigan players speared the Spartan logo prior to the game and that Dantonio wanted that last score.

If true, Hoke has no control over the team. What a joke.

Edit: here you go:

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2014/10/michigan_state_says_michigan_s.html#incart_big-photo

 

[dcmissle]

ESPN reporting that too.

Dantonio: "we just felt we needed to out a stake in them at that point."

Lol

 

[twibnotes]

ESPN reporting that too.

Dantonio: "we just felt we needed to out a stake in them at that point."

Lol

I'm not laughing. It's sad and infuriating what Michigan has become.

 

[Senator Donut]

Michigan State is the pettiest program in FBS. I'll never forget the Spartan players rushing out to "protect" the midfield logo it after blowing a 16-point 4th quarter lead against Notre Dame. (I miss John L. Smith.) I thoroughly enjoy the fact that Notre Dame has ruined their only two decent seasons in the last fifty years.

 

[twibnotes]

Michigan State is the pettiest program in FBS. I'll never forget the Spartan players rushing out to "protect" the midfield logo it after blowing a 16-point 4th quarter lead against Notre Dame. (I miss John L. Smith.) I thoroughly enjoy the fact that Notre Dame has ruined their only two decent seasons in the last fifty years.

Dantonio seems like a cock, but there's a method to his madness

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Do you back the truck up for Les Miles?  (assuming he'd take it, and I doubt it, but it's probably the only place he'd leave LSU for)

 

[twibnotes]

Do you back the truck up for Les Miles?  (assuming he'd take it, and I doubt it, but it's probably the only place he'd leave LSU for)

NO.

1) he's on the back nine

2) he makes all kinds of weird decisions, and his clock management is terrible

3) lsu might be the easiest place to build good teams in the country. You throw a pebble and hit five great recruits.

 

[dcmissle]

I'm not laughing. It's sad and infuriating what Michigan has become.

I see your point.! I'm just an observer of what obviously is a heated rivalry, but you don't screw with crap like this when you are visiting a rival. And you particularly don't do it when you're having a poor season and are an underdog in the game. This isn't a matter of your rival being hypersensitive: it's a matter of you being stupid.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

MSU should score 100 FU touchdowns if it can. Who cares about the score? What matters is that, once again, Sparty was standing at the end of the game, and UM was completely out-physicaled. All the posturing and gamesmanship and FU touchdowns in the world are meaningless if you can keep your opponent out of the end zone. The loss sucks. It sucks even more because there's no way you can look at that game and say that Michigan belonged on that field. That wasn't even State's best effort today.