2014 NBA Draft Thread (No Spoilers You Clowns)

Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,285
EL Jeffe said:
Plenty of people knock Randle for his lack of length at the 4, but Randle and Gordon have the same length...except Randle is 30lbs heavier with a lot more functional strength. You can certainly expect Gordon to fill out over time, and maybe he goes on the LeBron / Howard NBA PED program and gets up to 250lbs. But at this point, Gordon can't defend size. Defensively, he's a 3. Offensively, he's a 4.
 
Ford likes to compare Gordon to Kirilenko, but AK47 has a crazy wingspan which allowed him to make up for his lack of bulk. I just don't see it with Gordon. I consider him a bench energy guy who will do some James Posey type things for you. That's a nice complimentary piece, but certainly not a building block player. Then again, maybe I'm just gun shy from Ainge's track record with drafting players who couldn't shoot. It's entirely possible Gordon exceeds my expectations, but I hate gambling on players that can't shoot.
Click to expand...
Gordon can defend some 4's. I wouldn't think twice of putting him on Melo or Durant. Obviously he's not going to cover the bigger guys like Duncan, but he can play against any of the small ball stretch 4's. He's incredibly athletic, he won't be able to cover the 6'11" 265lb PFs who work in the block, but there aren't many of those guys. I think you are crazy if you think he is a James Posey type. He's going to come into the league as already a borderline elite wing defender, and his athleticism and passing are well above average even for the NBA.
Shooting is the skill weakness that is most likely to be correctable in the NBA.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,730
Cellar-Door said:
Gordon can defend some 4's. I wouldn't think twice of putting him on Melo or Durant. Obviously he's not going to cover the bigger guys like Duncan, but he can play against any of the small ball stretch 4's. He's incredibly athletic, he won't be able to cover the 6'11" 265lb PFs who work in the block, but there aren't many of those guys. I think you are crazy if you think he is a James Posey type. He's going to come into the league as already a borderline elite wing defender, and his athleticism and passing are well above average even for the NBA.
Shooting is the skill weakness that is most likely to be correctable in the NBA.
Click to expand...
This is what I mean.....Gordon would never be asked to defend Duncan. He would be matched up w Diaw while the 5 is on Duncan. Todays game has few "Power-4's" like it did a decade or more ago. Who is this fictitious 6-11 265 offensive post scorer? Today's 4 is LeBron, Carmelo, stretch 4's like Bonner, McRoberts in Charlotte, etc.

Gordon's issues won't be defensively they will be offensively as he doesn't fit the profile most teams look for at the position for the stuff they run.
 
Devizier

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,706
Somewhere
How correctible is shooting really? Obviously players improve their shot mechanics, and especially their selection, after getting to the league, but to what extent? And what are the indicators for who can improve and who cannot?
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
How correctible is shooting really? Obviously players improve their shot mechanics, and especially their selection, after getting to the league, but to what extent? And what are the indicators for who can improve and who cannot?
Click to expand...
Well, that's the 64K question. IMHO Rondo is a decent barometer. Rajon has improved his shot somewhat since 2004, but he's still not a good shooter, either from the field or the line. He's passable, that's all.

I see Gordon as a 3, not as a 4. If he's that good defensively, I would want him covering the likes of LeBron and Carmello, not Duncan or Z-bo.
 
Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,285
Devizier said:
How correctible is shooting really? Obviously players improve their shot mechanics, and especially their selection, after getting to the league, but to what extent? And what are the indicators for who can improve and who cannot?
Click to expand...
well I listed it upthread, but the odds are high he ends up at least over 55% from the line as most of the players who had a similarly terrible season in college showed strong improvement in the pros.
As for from the field, improvement seem fairly common, the question is how much, I can't find a general study that shows average improvement league wide. Also I noted upthread, his struggles came in particular spots, such as long 2s which he shouldn't be shooting anyway. He's good inside, so he should focus on solidifying his 3pt shooting to become a Kwahi Leonard time floor stretcher.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,125
Cellar-Door said:
so he should focus on solidifying his 3pt shooting to become a Kwahi Leonard time floor stretcher.
Click to expand...
 
speaking of Leonard, here is an article - http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/sports/basketball/spurs-set-records-and-shooting-guru-offers-only-a-shrug.html - that discusses how the Spurs shooting coach changed Leonard's mechanics to make him a better shooter.  He also did the same with Richard Jefferson and a bunch of other people.

In terms of footwork and dribbling, Aaron Gordon has great mechanics.  I have to think that he can improve his shooting - and in fact may already have improved his shooting.
 
snowmanny

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,854
Devizier said:
How correctible is shooting really? Obviously players improve their shot mechanics, and especially their selection, after getting to the league, but to what extent? And what are the indicators for who can improve and who cannot?
Click to expand...
 The obvious examples are:
1)Magic, who was 29-164 (17%) in three-pointers over his first six years (although maybe he only took them in desperation) but turned into an effective three-point shooter, going 106-276 (38%) in 1990; he also improved his FT shooting from .810 .760 .760 his first three years to .911 .890 .906 his last three full seasons.
2) Kidd, who started off at .272 in 3PT% and .698 in FT% but finished with career averages of .349 3PT% and .785 FT% and career highs of .425 3PT% and .870 FT%.
 
Both of these players were regarded as below average shooters (especially Ason Kidd) and turned themselves into very good shooters.
 
Devizier

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,706
Somewhere
I understand examples like Jason Kidd (and Lebron James, another example) but that's only part of the story. What about the guys who didn't improve as shooters? Why didn't they?
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Statman said:
 

ESPN Cleveland @ESPNCleveland  ·  7h

.@TheRealTRizzo: Sources tell me Joel Embiid's physical w/ the #Cavs did not go well. Enough red flags that they won't take him #1 overall.
 
Click to expand...
I rather imprudently placed a much too large wager on Wiggins to go #1 overall vs. the field like two years ago (before anyone had heard of anyone other than Wiggins). Every one of these reports tugs at my heartstrings.
 
JohnnyTheBone

JohnnyTheBone

Member
SoSH Member
May 28, 2007
37,143
Nobody Cares
I keep hearing Aaron Gordon's name associated with the #6 pick.  As for #17, Chad Ford is saying that the C's have serious interest in Latvian big man Kristaps Porzingis.  This is interesting, as OKC supposedly has a promise to select him at #21.  He has a $600K buyout, but the higher he's selected the less of an issue that will be.  Danny could always stash him in Europe for a year or two, also.  Anyway, I know nothing about this kid (maybe Brick does?), but this link had an extensive video package of his strengths and weaknesses:

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_mock_draft_2014_aaron_gord_2.html

Looks like a legitimate rim-protector.  I'm intrigued
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
I've been following Porzingis for some time now, but confess that I have not seen him live. (NBATV used to show a fair number of Euroleague games, but no more.)
 
Here is another scouting report from Eurohopes with some additional film:  http://www.eurohopes.com/player/1478/kristaps-porzingis/ 
 
Earlier I posted a clip from youtube showing Porzingis having a very nice game against Real Madrid.  Also as I said earlier (1) he's getting increasing minutes from Aito Garcia Reneses, a highly respected coach who also coached Pau Gasol, Rudy Fernandez and others (unusual for an 18 year-old in the Spanish ACB); and (2) Porzingis speaks fluent English.
 
A team wouldn't necessarily have to stash him.  Maybe he could play in Maine for some period of time and put on the extra 15-20 pounds of muscle he needs under close supervision of the Celtics' training staff.
 
If he's not taken by 21 the Thunder are sure to grab him.  He's not without risk, but the potential reward is very high IMHO.
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
That's what they said about Podzolkine.
Click to expand...
Oh please. Podzolkine was 7-5 and weighed almost 300 lbs when he withdrew the first time, and around the same when he was drafted. He was just huge, no skills. He was "discovered" playing in the Ukranian second division and later played in Italy. Those leagues were a far cry from the Spanish ACB.
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Euroball cracks me up. I'm reading a scouting report on this guy, and sure enough, it praises his decent three point shot. I'm almost more encouraged about his NBA prospects by the fact that he's a bad free throw shooter.
 
LondonSox

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
I was just reading one of the dumber mock drafts I've seen which said the Sixers would trade the 3rd overall, the 10th overall and Young for the 1st overall.

I mean WTF? They will get a very good player at 3 and possibly at 10 and it's not clear that they won't get Wiggins at 3 anyway!

Actually as I was looking to link that nonsense, I see there are a lot of rumors about a switch but they seem to be Young and the 3rd for 1st. Which makes more sense.

http://hoopshabit.com/2014/06/13/philadelphia-76ers-sixers-reach-cavs-eye-1-pick/
 
Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,285
LondonSox said:
I was just reading one of the dumber mock drafts I've seen which said the Sixers would trade the 3rd overall, the 10th overall and Young for the 1st overall.

I mean WTF? They will get a very good player at 3 and possibly at 10 and it's not clear that they won't get Wiggins at 3 anyway!

Actually as I was looking to link that nonsense, I see there are a lot of rumors about a switch but they seem to be Young and the 3rd for 1st. Which makes more sense.

http://hoopshabit.com/2014/06/13/philadelphia-76ers-sixers-reach-cavs-eye-1-pick/
Click to expand...
I absolutely wouldn't do the latter trade if I was Cleveland, and I probably wouldn't do the former.
Their roster is littered with guys comparable to or better than the 10. They desperately need a young shotblocking center, I can't think of a team that would have less incentive to trade the #1 than the Cavs. Unless they were getting an established top 15 player, it makes no sense.
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
Euroball cracks me up. I'm reading a scouting report on this guy, and sure enough, it praises his decent three point shot. I'm almost more encouraged about his NBA prospects by the fact that he's a bad free throw shooter.
Click to expand...
He doesn't get to the line very much. Maybe he'd shoot a better percentage if he did. The other thing I can't evaluate from the available film is Porzingis' passing ability and his willingness to pass. Most of the offensive footage shows him finishing on passes from someone else.

Having said that, he's got the size, wingspan, athletic ability and skills to be something special.
 
Steve Dillard

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,994
Sounds like a couple of mocks (incluidng Draft Express) think Orlando goes for Smart at 4, because they have a specific like for him going back to last year.  I guess the thinking then goes that Utah at 5 doesn't need backcourt, leaving Exum for us.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,730
southshoresoxfan said:
The timberwolves will have to move rubio to make room tho
Click to expand...
Very well played.

Bulpett just tweeted that sources insist the Wolves have better offers than the Celtics on the table. I'm guessing those "sources" are inside Target Center.
 
southshoresoxfan

southshoresoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,249
Canton MA
HomeRunBaker said:
Very well played.

Bulpett just tweeted that sources insist the Wolves have better offers than the Celtics on the table. I'm guessing those "sources" are inside Target Center.
Click to expand...
Ive believed all along if they want picks its Boston if they want young talent thats due for a raise soon its Golden State. Lets hope they value exum/gordon/smart/vonleh enough to choose picks.
 
RedOctober3829

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,686
deep inside Guido territory
southshoresoxfan said:
Ive believed all along if they want picks its Boston if they want young talent thats due for a raise soon its Golden State. Lets hope they value exum/gordon/smart/vonleh enough to choose picks.
Click to expand...
Klay Thompson hasn't been involved in trade talks yet.  Until he is, then Golden State's offer isn't as good as Boston's.
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
10,138
Even if Klay is involved, I still think Boston's offer is better. I highly doubt Klay will want to stay in Minnesota. If Love is going to be traded, I have to think Flip values picks or young cost controlled talent.
 
Swedgin

Swedgin

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2013
703
tbb345 said:
Even if Klay is involved, I still think Boston's offer is better. I highly doubt Klay will want to stay in Minnesota. If Love is going to be traded, I have to think Flip values picks or young cost controlled talent.
Click to expand...
As a RFA he has relatively little say in the matter.   For MN I think the bigger risk is some other team willing to overpay for his services.  Klay's agent will be looking for the max and it only takes one other team to place MN on the horns of a dilemma.
 
southshoresoxfan

southshoresoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,249
Canton MA
Swedgin said:
As a RFA he has relatively little say in the matter.   For MN I think the bigger risk is some other team willing to overpay for his services.  Klay's agent will be looking for the max and it only takes one other team to place MN on the horns of a dilemma.
Click to expand...
W the death of the two guard in the nba (a reason i think wiggins should be hands down the 1pick) klays absolutelt getting a max offer from someone.
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
He's basically a young Kevin Martin. I hope someone gives Thompson the max so I can laugh at them for the duration of the contract.
Click to expand...
Klay Thompson is far superior to Martin defensively. In fact, Thompson and Rubio would give MN one of the better defensive backcourts in the league.
 
southshoresoxfan

southshoresoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,249
Canton MA
BigSoxFan said:
So is a lawn chair. But that doesn't mean that you pay a guy like that the max or anywhere close to it. He's not a "building block" player, in my opinion. Of course, all it takes is 1 stupid GM.
Click to expand...
To be clear i wouldnt pay thompson the max. But in todays nba some team desperate for a two will offer him the restricted max 4/60. Theres no doubt in my mind there
 
R

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,867
BigSoxFan said:
He's basically a young Kevin Martin. I hope someone gives Thompson the max so I can laugh at them for the duration of the contract.
Click to expand...
 
I'm with you BSF.  I don't get the Thomspson love.  Nice player, very good shooter (particularly from 3).  But giving him the max is crazy.  Just because there aren't a lot of good 2 guards right now, that doesn't mean the pretty good ones all of a sudden are max guys by default.
 
Trading for Thomspson gives you 1 cheap year, one restricted year, and then even if he stays, you probably have to pay him big money if there are GMs out there anything like posters on SoSH.  I'd certainly take the guy on the Celtics for the right price, but he's just not that good.  
 
RedOctober3829

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,686
deep inside Guido territory
Huge news a week before the Draft.
https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/479648886450294784

 
"He(Embiid) suffered a foot injury to his right foot, sometime over the last few days,'' agent Arn Tellem told ESPN's Andy Katz by phone Thursday. "He's getting evaluations from various doctors and experts in the field. We'll know more Friday.''

 

One source told ESPN.com that Embiid "may have broken" his foot, but Tellem wouldn't speculate on the seriousness of the injury until he had heard back from doctors. Tellem also said it was unlikely he would be doing any more workouts before the draft, which is June 26.
 
 
 
Click to expand...
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/11107087/joel-embiid-suffers-foot-injury-prior-nba-draft
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
10,138
That is huge. Simmons just tweeted that Tellem is trying to steer Embiid to BOS or LAL...if we can come out of this with Embiid I am not sure I trade the pick for Love
 
Kliq

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,006
I'm seeing that Cleveland is much more interested in Jabari then Wiggins. If Embiid was able to fall to number six, the Celtics HAVE to take him. Yes, a foot injury is scary, but Embiid was so highly regarded in this draft, it is crazy to see him fall out of the top five, even with the injury. Embiid improved so fast this season that he was the consensus number one overall pick in a draft that was loaded with future star players.
 
moondog80

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,315
This of course reminds everyone of Greg Oden, Yao Ming, Sam Bowie...but Zydrunas Illgauskus played only 29 games over a three year stretch with foot issues, and then had a five year run where he missed only 14 games total.  So who knows?  Not all injuries are the same.
 
DJnVa

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,336
Cowherd (I know, I know) was ranting, "This is way you don't take 7 footers high!!! They break down!!!"
 
He then preceded to rattle off 7 footers that got hurt, starting with Oden (sure) and running through to Dwight Howard and Shaq (WTF?)
 
Statman

Statman

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2005
1,057
Los Angeles, CA
Bunt4aTriple said:
Is there any chance that he could slip to 6 if it's broken? 
Click to expand...
 
I just can't imagine Orlando or Utah passing on Embiid if he's still available at 4 or 5. 
 
There's a chance that the Magic pass on him because they have Vucevic, but the Jazz are sure to draft Embiid because Kanter isn't exactly lighting the NBA on fire.
 
Statman

Statman

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2005
1,057
Los Angeles, CA
 

 
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA  ·  [URL="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/479702391336763393
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/479702391336763393"]

link to tweet 11m [/url]
Joel Embiid has suffered stress fracture in right foot and slated for surgery on Friday, agent Arn Tellem says.
 
 

 
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA  ·  [URL="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/479702644659716096
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/479702644659716096"]

link to tweet 10m [/url]
The stress fracture is in the navicular bone in Embiid's right foot.
 
 
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom