2014 NBA Draft Thread (No Spoilers You Clowns)

[Auger34]

I think it's a shitty comparison that only the laziest "experts" are making. He isn't as explosive, he's nowhere near the passer, he turns the ball over more. (All compared to Melo coming out of college). He struggles against elite athletes where Melo, a better athlete, didn't have the same problems getting  by and/or over them.
 
I'd say he's a bigger Pierce with a less refined offensive game and less lateral quickness.
 
That's probably still a borderline All-Star (F is a tough position right now), if things go right, but Melo isn't even a best case scenario.

Ive got to ask what youve got against Parker? Did he run over your dog? This is the second post where you have completely underrated him in this thread (lest we forget the slightly better Hayward post).
He's a better passer than Melo...you know because he has actually passed the ball. Melo and him have the exact same body type and athleticism. I think the differences are that Melo has more of a killer instinct whereas Parker isn't an awful teammate, is liked by all of his teammates, and is fun to play with.
I don't think many players coming out of college had a more refined game than Jabari. His best case scenario is absolutely Melo. I think his best case scenario is Paul Pierce in his prime.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I gotta say, now is the time of year when I miss Ehmunro and his myriad encarnations.

 
I wouldn't go THAT far!

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

If that deal involving Rondo get us Jabari Parker and Marcus Smart, sign me up.

 

[MillarTime]

If that deal involving Rondo get us Jabari Parker and Marcus Smart, sign me up.

A-fucking-men

 

[moondog80]

If that deal involving Rondo get us Jabari Parker and Marcus Smart, sign me up.

There's no way. This is like when Shira Springer said the Celts were not going to have to give up Al Jefferson in the KG deal.

 

[scottyno]

 
There is no fucking way that that version of the trade is right. Isnt Cousins the only player that SAC has thats untouchable? So they are trading Cousins (a better asset than Rondo by himself) AND the #8 for Rondo? Yeah that doesnt pass the smell test

not if they're trading for josh smith next, and the deal with cousins didn't seem to have #8 in it, it was just cousin for rondo from the kings perspective

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
I wouldn't go THAT far!

Hmmmm I wonder where we could find him?

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Hmmmm I wonder where we could find him?

 
Well Loscy's Chair Chuckers hasn't been around for a minute, so I'm stumped.  Don't be coy...

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Keep in mind Parker had the broken foot which limited his offseason workouts. That kid has an easy 5-10lbs of fat to lose.

I still prefer wiggins but it seems parker is more the offensive mold player which i think ainge prefers

 

[DannyDarwinism]

 
Well Loscy's Chair Chuckers hasn't been around for a minute, so I'm stumped.  Don't be coy...

 
Nevermind, google works.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

I really hope the cs somehow get parker and mclemore out of 6 and rondo. A guy u dont want to pay and 6 nets you a potential 2/3 combo under control $ wise and also sets u on a clear path to one more tankapalooza season which leads to the books clearing, two firsts in 2015s draft and then the looming nets picks. Still tons of assets.

Tomorrow is going to be awesome.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I wouldn't either. Most versions I've seen have been 8 and or McLemore coming to Boston. That deal is a fleecing.

How is it a fleecing? Even in a deep draft, the one pick is worth substantially more than the six pick and Rondo is gone next year anyway. I would be in favor of any trade where Rondo netted us moving up five spots and takes Jeff Green's contract off the books along with it. Sign me up for that yesterday. Maybe you think Rondo has more value, but I think that's pretty much maxing it out.

Plus, Rondo and his binky Josh Smith may finally get to play together. A feel good story.

 

[bowiac]

If I want an uber-athletic player who can't shoot, and I can't get Wiggins, why not Gordon as wing players are harder to find than PGs?

Regardless of this idea that "wing players are harder to find" (which I think is looking at it the wrong way), the "analytics" reasons are two-fold:
 
1. KenPom has done research showing that a poor free throw percentage is a bad sign for future three point field goal percentage (and more reliable, given the larger sample). Even though Smart has the worse three point % of the two of them, I'd bet on his being higher than Gordon's in the NBA.
 
2. Steals. There's a bunch of data showing 1) steals translate really well to the NBA from college; 2) college steals are predictive of overall NBA success, not just NBA steals success. There's a lot of theorizing about this, but this is the basic reason why Smart grades out as the #1 NCAA player in the draft by Pelton's WARP projections for instance.
 
Neither of these reasons is definitive, and Pelton notes that Smart's statistical profile is unusual. I'd probably lean Smart, but I'd be fine with Gordon. He seems riskier, and it's if the upside is worth it there, but Gordon would be a fine pick.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Ive got to ask what youve got against Parker? Did he run over your dog? This is the second post where you have completely underrated him in this thread (lest we forget the slightly better Hayward post).
He's a better passer than Melo...you know because he has actually passed the ball. Melo and him have the exact same body type and athleticism. I think the differences are that Melo has more of a killer instinct whereas Parker isn't an awful teammate, is liked by all of his teammates, and is fun to play with.
I don't think many players coming out of college had a more refined game than Jabari. His best case scenario is absolutely Melo. I think his best case scenario is Paul Pierce in his prime.

This is a great narrative.
Unfortunately it happens to be absolutely false.
Melo had an assist rate significantly (closing in on twice) greater than Parker. If you just want to go totals he also passed far more than Parker.
He also had a much better A/TO ratio, Parker's is a shameful 0.49 to Melo's 1.00.
The teammate thing seems like bullshit speculation since I don't remember any stories about teammates (on his championship winning team) disliking Melo, and Boeheim has always said great things about him.
Athleticism, his lack of explosiveness has been noted by many scouts, he refused to participate in any drills at the combine so we can't compare him to Melo with stats except measurables from the Kevin Durant Camp. He's an inch taller than Melo but has a shorter wingspan.
 
Parker has real skills (the Hayward thing was obvious hyperbole in a comedy sketch), Melo was a much better all-around player than him in college. He was a better passer, turned the ball over far less, and dominated against top athletes (Parker struggled with top NBA caliber athletes in college) Defense is impossible to compare since Melo played at Cuse.

 

[The Social Chair]

Agreeing with Cellar-Door on Parker. The fact that Coach K had to bench him at the end of games because of his defense scares me. If they somehow got the first pick then that's two of the worst defensive players in the league on the front court when he's on the floor with Kelly O.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I can't believe how many people prefer Parker over Wiggins and who feel Ainge does as well. That would stun the hell out of me if we move up and pass on Wiggins

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Here is a pretty good synopsis of the draft. Enjoy.

http://www.celticsnuts.com/blog/

 

[LondonSox]

 
Gordon went to Philly at 10.
 
So here's their top 10:
 
1. Parker
2. Exum
3. Wiggins
4. Vonleh
5. Stauskas
6. Randal
7 Embiid
8. McDermott
9. Harris
10. Gordon

 
Philly would mess themselves if that played out. Wiggins and Gordon with Noel and MCW and Young is a team. The defensive potential of that line up is completely unreal (with no strong view on MCW defensively I'll be honest)
With 5 2nd rounders to play with, to pick up some shooters and lottery tickets

 

[The Mort Report]

I think if the Celts could get the 8th for Rondo(shooting low, on the other end IT2 and Ben M would be a steal), they should take Gordon at 6, McDermott at 8 and Napier at 17.  An athletic freak with high upside(Gordon) who could work well with Napier who can do it all, and McD who stretches the floor.  That just sound like a matchup nightmare... obviously if everyone plays up to ability

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I can't believe how many people prefer Parker over Wiggins and who feel Ainge does as well. That would stun the hell out of me if we move up and pass on Wiggins

I'm with you on this. Wiggins has to be the pick, especially for a team as far away as competing as the Celtics.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Chad Ford said the rumor is that teams with Embiid's medical records told him there are more issues than just his back and foot. Sounds like teams are trying to scare off the top 3-4 teams from taking him.

 

[ivanvamp]

I think if the Celts could get the 8th for Rondo(shooting low, on the other end IT2 and Ben M would be a steal), they should take Gordon at 6, McDermott at 8 and Napier at 17.  An athletic freak with high upside(Gordon) who could work well with Napier who can do it all, and McD who stretches the floor.  That just sound like a matchup nightmare... obviously if everyone plays up to ability

 
Wow.  Napier, McLemore, Gordon, McDermott, Green, Sullinger, Olynyk.  That is a young, and potentially very exciting, team.  Lots of ways for it to go badly, but lots of ways for it to go well, IMO.  It would need some time to develop, which is fine.  It would be like the Red Sox calling up all their top prospects and just letting it ride for a few years.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

 
Wow.  Napier, McLemore, Gordon, McDermott, Green, Sullinger, Olynyk.  That is a young, and potentially very exciting, team.  Lots of ways for it to go badly, but lots of ways for it to go well, IMO.  It would need some time to develop, which is fine.  It would be like the Red Sox calling up all their top prospects and just letting it ride for a few years.

I'm not sure about the specific players involved, but I like this approach in principle. If we won't be getting Love, then brining in some legitimate young talent for Stevens to work with seems
like the right way to go. Cash in Rondo and some (not all) of those future chips to bring in better young talent now.

 

[axx]

Chad Ford said the rumor is that teams with Embiid's medical records told him there are more issues than just his back and foot. Sounds like teams are trying to scare off the top 3-4 teams from taking him.

 
Sounds like Greg Oden to me.

 

[Silent Chief]

That'd be a really fun team to watch.  Honestly if we don't get Love, let's blow the lid off this thing and have some fun. 

 

[southshoresoxfan]

That team would win 15 games. Im all set w mcdermott he doesnt have a position defensively

 

[Drocca]

With his shot he won't need a position defensively. McDermott is actually one of the easiest prospects to project, in my opinion.
 
But more importantly, when did we give up on trying to write well, ssfs? Your sentence looks like vomit.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

When im posting from the mobile app.

Its actually hard to project McDermott he is a slow perimeter player with a slow release who is too slow to defend the 3s and too small for the 4s. I wouldnt take him at 8. there are going to be much better options at 8. He is more likely to bust than other lotto projected players due to his defensive and footwork issues. Both get exposed very quickly at the NBA level.

 

[bowiac]

With his shot he won't need a position defensively. McDermott is actually one of the easiest prospects to project, in my opinion.

Is he James Harden?
 
Without speaking to whether McDermott can play passable defense somewhere, the line between "great shooter" and "no place to play" is a fine one. I understand McDermott was a significantly better college shooter than Jimmer, but Jimmer can't find minutes at all and he was the last guy we heard this about.
 
McDermott is a guy the "stats" should be able to understand. He's a 4 year college player, a developed product without a lot of projection left in him. Furthermore, his game is entirely offensive, which is the part that the numbers understand pretty well. He's a guy where all these college projection models should be very useful on. They hate him. Why is that?

 

[Clears Cleaver]

I think Parker has more bust potential than anyone else thinks he does. I see a lazy one-dimensional scorer. McDermott might actually be a better athlete and has a better motor. and is a better passer. I think he is more of a lock to play in the league 10 years than PArker.
 
Wiggins scares me as he isn't good at basketball yet, but could be great if the desire is there. I haven't a clue if the desire is there. Its incredible to me that a team with Embiid and Wiggins did little this season and looked bad a lot, maybe it was the guards, maybe Self is a bad coach, maybe neither knows how to play yet. I wouldn't want the top pick.
 
For the C's, if they got Embiid and Saric that is a win win win. Trade Rondo for 8 and get McDermott? Sign me up. The team would suck next year and year after but then nucleus is there

 

[gmogmo]

I think Parker has more bust potential than anyone else thinks he does. I see a lazy one-dimensional scorer. McDermott might actually be a better athlete and has a better motor. and is a better passer. I think he is more of a lock to play in the league 10 years than PArker.
 
Wiggins scares me as he isn't good at basketball yet, but could be great if the desire is there. I haven't a clue if the desire is there. Its incredible to me that a team with Embiid and Wiggins did little this season and looked bad a lot, maybe it was the guards, maybe Self is a bad coach, maybe neither knows how to play yet. I wouldn't want the top pick.
 
For the C's, if they got Embiid and Saric that is a win win win. Trade Rondo for 8 and get McDermott? Sign me up. The team would suck next year and year after but then nucleus is there

Agree with almost all of this, but I'd prefer one of leftover bigs (Vonleh, Gordon, Randle) or Stauskas with the 8 pick if they dealt Rondo for it.

 

[Stitch01]

 
For the C's, if they got Embiid and Saric that is a win win win. Trade Rondo for 8 and get McDermott? Sign me up. The team would suck next year and year after but then nucleus is there

Close to my non-Love dream, want either Gordon or Smart or probably Randle instead of McDermott.  Suck again next year, get another high lottery pick.  Probably suck in '15-'16 enough to get another high pick while figuring out who to build around.  '16-'17 have lots of assets to build around the (hopefully) franchise player they've found. 

 

[Auger34]

If they get 6, 8, and 17 I am hoping for Embiid, Smart, and Lavine. Go all out on potential

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

If they get 6, 8, and 17 I am hoping for Embiid, Smart, and Lavine. Go all out on potential

Reports today are that Minnesota promised LaVine at 12.

 

[TheRooster]

Is he James Harden?
 
Without speaking to whether McDermott can play passable defense somewhere, the line between "great shooter" and "no place to play" is a fine one. I understand McDermott was a significantly better college shooter than Jimmer, but Jimmer can't find minutes at all and he was the last guy we heard this about.
 
McDermott is a guy the "stats" should be able to understand. He's a 4 year college player, a developed product without a lot of projection left in him. Furthermore, his game is entirely offensive, which is the part that the numbers understand pretty well. He's a guy where all these college projection models should be very useful on. They hate him. Why is that?

 
That sheet is kind of a mess, no?  It seems to way overrate the foreign guys.  It also has Zach Levine's first comp as old friend E'Twan Moore.  The comps in general imply every team should trade its pick for a rotation guy.  Thanks for linking though; it is nice to have some of the stats complied this way.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Agree with almost all of this, but I'd prefer one of leftover bigs (Vonleh, Gordon, Randle) or Stauskas with the 8 pick if they dealt Rondo for it.

YEs for me on Gordon, I see him as a starter on any title team potentially. Could be a poor man's Rodman on the court

 

[wutang112878]

Is he James Harden?
 
Without speaking to whether McDermott can play passable defense somewhere, the line between "great shooter" and "no place to play" is a fine one. I understand McDermott was a significantly better college shooter than Jimmer, but Jimmer can't find minutes at all and he was the last guy we heard this about.
 
McDermott is a guy the "stats" should be able to understand. He's a 4 year college player, a developed product without a lot of projection left in him. Furthermore, his game is entirely offensive, which is the part that the numbers understand pretty well. He's a guy where all these college projection models should be very useful on. They hate him. Why is that?

 
To add to that fine line, when I think of McDermott instantly a current player popped into my head who is a 'just out there to stretch the floor' role player because of his defensive limitations, and imagine my surprise when they went to the same school, other than the sample size they are very similar players:
 

 
 
And the mystery player is:

Spoiler

Kyle Korver!

 

[DJnVa]

Chad Ford said the rumor is that teams with Embiid's medical records told him there are more issues than just his back and foot. Sounds like teams are trying to scare off the top 3-4 teams from taking him.

 
As an aside I hate that all teams don't get access to the records.

 

[Auger34]

Reports today are that Minnesota promised LaVine at 12.

Yeah I have seen that as well. The other guy I like for the 17, TJ Warren, apparently got promised by Pheonix too.
I'll change it to Dario Saric at 17. Basically punt next year and get another high draft pick (Jahlil Okafor?)

 

[ivanvamp]

With all the picks the Celtics have piled up, I am convinced that if they decide to go the young prospect with potential route over the next few years, by 2017-18 this team will be potentially loaded for a while.

And no, I'm not joking or being sarcastic.

The question is whether or not the C's and Celtic fans will be patient enough to build such a team from the ground up, knowing how long it will likely take. But they have the right coach for such a project, that's for sure.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Holy hell someone in this thread posted McDermott > Parker and not only has nobody contested but people agreed? Wtf is going on in this thread.

 

[ivanvamp]

Really long but interesting Simmons article on the past 19 drafts...
 
http://grantland.com/features/nba-draft-crapshoot-repick-1995/
 
Long story short, other than having the #1 pick, drafting is really sketchy business.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Wiggins scares me as he isn't good at basketball yet, but could be great if the desire is there. I haven't a clue if the desire is there. Its incredible to me that a team with Embiid and Wiggins did little this season and looked bad a lot

Wiggins was a close 2nd for Player of the Year as an 18-year old in the toughest conference in America and dominated many games getting to the line at will over the final month of the season.

The team did little? They ran away with the conference championship!

 

[Devizier]

I think Kyle Anderson will be better than McDermott.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Embiid tweeted this last night and quickly deleted it.
 

 

[ALiveH]

sadly it would make a lot of sense for the lakers to take a huge risk on a high potential center and have him turn into hakeem 2.0

 

[The Social Chair]

Wiggins was a close 2nd for Player of the Year as an 18-year old in the toughest conference in America and dominated many games getting to the line at will over the final month of the season.

The team did little? They ran away with the conference championship!

 
Have people forgotten how good he was by the end of the season (Stanford game excluded)? The last 3 games before the NCAA tournament he had 41, 30, and 22 point games.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Agree with almost all of this, but I'd prefer one of leftover bigs (Vonleh, Gordon, Randle) or Stauskas with the 8 pick if they dealt Rondo for it.

 
Gordon, Stauskas, and whomever at 17 would be great building blocks. 

 

[Sprowl]

Here is a pretty good synopsis of the draft. Enjoy.

http://www.celticsnuts.com/blog/

 
Interesting breakdown. Judging just by Toner's "how many all star games" projection, the top four (Parker, Exum, Wiggins, Smart) have limited ceilings; the next two (Gordon, Embiid) have unlimited ceilings, along with very high risk of failure. Not a bad year to be drafting sixth.

 

[bowiac]

From that Celticsblog post:
 

Comparison: From what I have seen of Exum, he looks an awful lot like a bigger, more athletic Derek Rose.

Isn't Rose supposed to be, along with Westbrook, a 10 out of 10 athlete?