2014 NBA Draft Thread (No Spoilers You Clowns)

wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

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wutang112878 said:
 
Lets look at this a different way.  When was the last time that a team won a title and their PG was their best player? 
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Exum's main comp is Kobe, not really a PG.  While I agree with you it's kind of silly that he might be drafted #1 precisely because we - and I suspect a lot of GMs - don't really know anything about him, this is not 1984 and the NBA drafts on potential now.  Which, by all admissions, Exum has a lot of.
 
OTOH, I'd be more concerned about his defense.  He hasn't had to guard, really, anybody and it will be interesting to see how he does in the NBA.  As one of the articles on Klay Thompson said, Steph Curry doesn't guard the opponent's PG because it's difficult for him physically to fight over 30 screens a game.  Will be interesting to see how Exum handles that.
 
southshoresoxfan

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Ive adjusted my plan.

Plan a) get kevin love

Plan b) if cant get love...flip rondo for mclemore thomas and 8, flip the exception to the lakers for nash and 7

Try to package 6-7 to cleveland for 1. Draft wiggins/gordon/whoever at 17. Roll out wiggins and mclemore on the wing w gordon as a freak 4. At the least you have 3 outstanding athletes and can hang onto sully and olynyk for one more year.

Danny loves accuming assets. Plus id love watching Napier/mclemore/wiggins/gordon/olynyk w a bench of sully isiah etc. Team wont win enough but is littered w upside guys.
 
bankshot1

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Devizier said:
 
Only three examples I can think of, two of whom are Pistons:
 
1) Chauncey Billups on the 04 Pistons
2) Isiah Thomas on the Bad Boys Pistons
3) Cousy on the Celtics before Russell arrived
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Walt Frazier should be on that list
 
dylanmarsh

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https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/status/481895854660669440
 
I imagine this will net the Knicks the Mavs' second round pick (#34 overall) but what else?
 
bowiac

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Devizier said:
Yikes. Yeah, that one, too. Though Magic is by no means a prototypical point guard.
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As wade boggs chicken dinner notes, Exum's comp isn't really a typical point guard either. This goes to what I was saying about positional value too. The NBA is too fluid for that - positions exist, but they're not all equally valuable, and there are probably more than 5 of them (I think this was a Sloan paper this year actually, quantifying the positions in the NBA). Saying Patrick Beverly plays the same position as Chris Paul however just doesn't seem useful.
 
gammoseditor

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wutang112878 said:
If we are developing a strategy on how to win in the NBA today, I really dont think going past the MJ years is really applicable.  Not that Isiah wasnt the best player on his team, but the style of play is just very, very different in today's game.
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First you started the conversation with "when was the last time a team won the title with a PG as their best player."  Then you only want to look at MJ years and beyond.  During MJ's draft I'm sure an argument was made that you need a big man to win a title and Sam Bowie was picked over him.  Also, I don't think we learned anything about team building during the MJ years.  The startegy those years was to get MJ and another HOF.  Or hope the best player in the world decides to take two years off to ride a bus with Terry Francona.  I think you take the best player available regardless of position, and you don't assume who you draft has to be your best player to win a title.
 
Grin&MartyBarret

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bowiac said:
As wade boggs chicken dinner notes, Exum's comp isn't really a typical point guard either. This goes to what I was saying about positional value too. The NBA is too fluid for that - positions exist, but they're not all equally valuable, and there are probably more than 5 of them (I think this was a Sloan paper this year actually, quantifying the positions in the NBA). Saying Patrick Beverly plays the same position as Chris Paul however just doesn't seem useful.
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Yeah, I can't remember where, but I read somewhere today that to be a point guard in today's NBA you can be one of two things: a guy who makes shots (Curry, Kyrie, Lillard) or a guy who can get by anybody and can get to any spot on the floor with ease (Westbrook, Rose, Wall, etc). The "complete" point guard type like Chris Paul is such a rarity that NBA offenses have adjusted by putting shooters/athletes there instead.
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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southshoresoxfan said:
Ive adjusted my plan.

Plan a) get kevin love

Plan b) if cant get love...flip rondo for mclemore thomas and 8, flip the exception to the lakers for nash and 7

Try to package 6-7 to cleveland for 1. Draft wiggins/gordon/whoever at 17. Roll out wiggins and mclemore on the wing w gordon as a freak 4. At the least you have 3 outstanding athletes and can hang onto sully and olynyk for one more year.

Danny loves accuming assets. Plus id love watching Napier/mclemore/wiggins/gordon/olynyk w a bench of sully isiah etc. Team wont win enough but is littered w upside guys.
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I like this plan. The Celtics have a lot more latitude to do something like this than other teams simply because we fans are already resigned to a few more years of losing. Wiggins, Gordon and whomever goes at 17 would br a pretty good outcome for them.
 
bowiac

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Sensing a lot of smoke around the Celtics' interest in Marcus Smart. He's a guy that I've turned around on once I got a plausible comp (Kyle Lowry) into my head, especially since he grades out so well through the analytics to boot. Assuming no trade (which has to still be the favorite), would he be a satisfactory outcome?
 
Grin&MartyBarret

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bowiac said:
Sensing a lot of smoke around the Celtics' interest in Marcus Smart. He's a guy that I've turned around on once I got a plausible comp (Kyle Lowry) into my head, especially since he grades out so well through the analytics to boot. Assuming no trade (which has to still be the favorite), would he be a satisfactory outcome?
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He's my guess. And I think Rondo gets dealt, too.
 
ElcaballitoMVP

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dylanmarsh said:
https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/status/481895854660669440
 
I imagine this will net the Knicks the Mavs' second round pick (#34 overall) but what else?
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Looks to be Chandler and Felton for Dalembert, Calderon, Shane Larkin and Wayne Ellington plus #34 and #51 in the 2nd round. 
 
Not sure this deal does much for either team, but I guess I'd take the Chandler side of the deal. Mavs give up on Larkin after 1 season and some spare parts for a starting C. 
 
Cellar-Door

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SoxFanInPdx said:
Keep seeing Ainge is high on Randle...this can't be the case can it? I'm not sold on him. Am I missing something?
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He's also reportedly high on every other player he could conceivably draft at 6.
Parker, Wiggins, Embiid, Vonleh, Smart, Gordon, Randle all have had a ton of "Danny Ainge is high on......" stories.
 
dylanmarsh

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ElcaballitoMVP said:
 
Looks to be Chandler and Felton for Dalembert, Calderon, Shane Larkin and Wayne Ellington plus #34 and #51 in the 2nd round. 
 
Not sure this deal does much for either team, but I guess I'd take the Chandler side of the deal. Mavs give up on Larkin after 1 season and some spare parts for a starting C. 
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The Knicks wanted to try to move into the first round.  It might make easier it for them with the #34 pick plus Larkin ($1.6M for '15) and/or Dalembert (team option for '15).  Houston at #25 seems like a sellable pick since they could dump Dalembert post-trade and have Larkin there to supplant Lin (rumored to be moving).  Remember, second round picks (#34) do not have guaranteed contracts.
 
Drocca

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bowiac said:
Sensing a lot of smoke around the Celtics' interest in Marcus Smart. He's a guy that I've turned around on once I got a plausible comp (Kyle Lowry) into my head, especially since he grades out so well through the analytics to boot. Assuming no trade (which has to still be the favorite), would he be a satisfactory outcome?
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Yes. Did you see his shot chart effectiveness posted by Goldsberry? His elite offensive skill is getting to the damn rim, I love it.
 
MillarTime

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Posted this earlier, but Travis Ford on Smart:

"I've never been around another player in my whole life -- not when I was a player and not since I've been a coach -- that is able to bring it EVERY SINGLE DAY," Ford said. "I don't care if it's two-a-days, three-a-days or five-a-days. I don't care if it's 6 a.m. I don't care if it's the day after a big win. It's ridiculous. I knew he was a great leader, but it's even been a shock to me. Everybody, at some point, has a bad day in terms of coming ready to play. But he never takes a day off. He comes everyday to win every drill. Everyday. Every drill. I don't care when it is or what it is. Everyday he's ready. It's ridiculous."

Boner-inducing.
 
Auger34

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The speculation that Chad Ford put forth today (in his chat) was Boston taking back bad contracts from Cleveland so the Cavs can get LBJ and Melo. I am thinking that the trade is Rondo to SAC, #17 and young players to CLE (also Bogans and expirings from both teams, they can staple the 17 to the other bad contracts they have left) and 1 to BOS. If this comes through, I think Celtics go Jabari at 1 (who Ford said they are trying to trade up for) and Smart at 6. 
I love what I am hearing about Ainge so far. He either gets Love and then gets other veteran assets (Asik for the TPE) or if he can get Love he blows it up and gets more young assets and hopefully gets another top 3 pick next year (Okafor? Alexander? Mudiay from my alma mater SMU?)
 
Auger34

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MJM2344 said:
 
Jonathan Givony

‏@DraftExpress

Pretty much everyone I talk to is indicating that the Celtics are down to Randle or Smart at #6. Gordon seemingly third. Vonleh not in mix.
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Is Givony a good source for trades? I know that he is plugged in with draft picks and the foreign players who could be coming over for the draft but I don't really see much of a track record for him when it comes to actual trades or free agent signings
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Auger34

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mascho said:
FWIW, NBA.tv is airing their "mock draft" right now and had Randle to the Celtics at #6.  Embiid was still on the board.  
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If Ainge takes Randle with Embiid still on the board, I will be very very disappointed.
Hell, I am going to be disappointed if he takes Randle with Aaron Gordon or Marcus Smart on the board
 
mascho

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tbb345 said:
If Ainge takes Randle with Embiid still on the board, I will be very very disappointed.
Hell, I am going to be disappointed if he takes Randle with Aaron Gordon or Marcus Smart on the board
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Gordon went to Philly at 10.
 
So here's their top 10:
 
1. Parker
2. Exum
3. Wiggins
4. Vonleh
5. Stauskas
6. Randal
7 Embiid
8. McDermott
9. Harris
10. Gordon
 
E

Eric Ampersand

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Everyone is comparing Jabari to Melo. I don't see the comparison at all. To me he is a bigger version of Paul Pierce who plays shittier defense. This only matters if the Cs have a shot at #1 or 2.
 
Auger34

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Eric Ampersand said:
Everyone is comparing Jabari to Melo. I don't see the comparison at all. To me he is a bigger version of Paul Pierce who plays shittier defense. This only matters if the Cs have a shot at #1 or 2.
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Completely agree. I posted my thoughts earlier but I think the defense has a lot to do with indifference/expending energy on the offensive side and the fact that with his broken foot in the summer he couldn't get in shape.
I think he is a mix of Big Dog and Pierce and I think he is a Future All-Star
 
bowiac

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Eric Ampersand said:
Everyone is comparing Jabari to Melo. I don't see the comparison at all. To me he is a bigger version of Paul Pierce who plays shittier defense.
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A bigger version of Paul Pierce who plays shittier defense is how most people would describe Melo...
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

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MillarTime said:
Posted this earlier, but Travis Ford on Smart:

"I've never been around another player in my whole life -- not when I was a player and not since I've been a coach -- that is able to bring it EVERY SINGLE DAY," Ford said. "I don't care if it's two-a-days, three-a-days or five-a-days. I don't care if it's 6 a.m. I don't care if it's the day after a big win. It's ridiculous. I knew he was a great leader, but it's even been a shock to me. Everybody, at some point, has a bad day in terms of coming ready to play. But he never takes a day off. He comes everyday to win every drill. Everyday. Every drill. I don't care when it is or what it is. Everyday he's ready. It's ridiculous."

Boner-inducing.
Click to expand...
 
Haven't we had enough years with a PG who can't shoot? 
 
If I want an uber-athletic player who can't shoot, and I can't get Wiggins, why not Gordon as wing players are harder to find than PGs?
 
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Eric Ampersand

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bowiac said:
A bigger version of Paul Pierce who plays shittier defense is how most people would describe Melo...
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Ok that's fair. I don't think Parker has the athleticism to do what Melo does on offense. Don't get me wrong. I would still love to land him if isn't too expensive to move up.
 
Drocca

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I would absolutely not give up number 6 AND our best asset for the number one. Draft is too damn deep. I would rather have 8 and 6 than 1.
 
Auger34

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BigSoxFan said:
There is no way the Cavs will get Cousins and the #6 pick for #1. And that trade makes very little sense for Sacramento. You don't trade for Rondo unless you are trying to add talent to the team, not trade away your best player.
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There is no fucking way that that version of the trade is right. Isnt Cousins the only player that SAC has thats untouchable? So they are trading Cousins (a better asset than Rondo by himself) AND the #8 for Rondo? Yeah that doesnt pass the smell test
 
Auger34

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tbb345 said:
 
There is no fucking way that that version of the trade is right. Isnt Cousins the only player that SAC has thats untouchable? So they are trading Cousins (a better asset than Rondo by himself) AND the #8 for Rondo? Yeah that doesnt pass the smell test
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Cellar-Door

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Nbadraft and Draftexpress are really closing up at the top.
Identical top 7s.
Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Exum
Vonleh
Smart
Randle
 
Cellar-Door

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Eric Ampersand said:
Everyone is comparing Jabari to Melo. I don't see the comparison at all. To me he is a bigger version of Paul Pierce who plays shittier defense. This only matters if the Cs have a shot at #1 or 2.
Click to expand...
I think it's a shitty comparison that only the laziest "experts" are making. He isn't as explosive, he's nowhere near the passer, he turns the ball over more. (All compared to Melo coming out of college). He struggles against elite athletes where Melo, a better athlete, didn't have the same problems getting  by and/or over them.
 
I'd say he's a bigger Pierce with a less refined offensive game and less lateral quickness.
 
That's probably still a borderline All-Star (F is a tough position right now), if things go right, but Melo isn't even a best case scenario.
 
dylanmarsh

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RedOctober3829 said:
https://twitter.com/johntelich8/status/481968096345718784
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This one is pretty curious due to the poison pill provision on Cousins's contract. The PPP causes his cap hit in a trade to be around $15MM. I would guess the Deng cap hit would have to be included, despite no contract, to the Celtics because the Kings can't absorb it. If the Celtics were inclined, they could offer Deng a max contract that would beat every other team. Or, he could be a sign and trade candidate to gain assets.

Another route would be for the Cavs to renounce Deng's rights.
 
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