2014 Training Camp

[The Napkin]

It's almost time for hockey!
 
Rookie camp begins Sept 11 and will include 3 games in Antioch, TN. The vets come in Sept 18 for the start of full camp.
 
 

 

[cshea]

The rookies played 2 games in a rookie tournament down in Nashville over the weekend. Game 1 they lost 2-0 to the Panthers. Subban was in net, stopped 19 of 21 shots. B's apparently played decent, out shooting the Panthers 30-21. Yesterday the B's lost to the Lightning rookies 3-2 in OT. Morrison was in net, Ben Sexton and Frankie Simonelli scored the Bruins goals. The tournament wraps up tomorrow afternoon with a game against the Preds rookies.

In reading the reports, Pastrnak has apparently played very well. He played center on the first game and then I believe the wing yesterday. They say he's risk/reward guy and apparently was making plays all over the ice on Saturday, then yesterday got toasted by Jonathan Drouin on the OT winner. He seems a bit raw but I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays with the big boys in camp, he's in the mix for a vacant forward spot. Chiarelli has also been impressed by Brian Ferlin and Matt Lindblad. Both are also potential NHL forwards this year.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Very excited to have hockey back in my life. What are the big(gest) story lines for camp this year? It seems to me that most of the roster is locked in and it's really just the back end that might have some fluidity, but there are some talented younger players in this organization as well. If they look the part, who do they displace and/or what freedom does that give the FO? Another big question is what will Seidenberg look like coming off his injury. Relatively more minor questions include how far will Chara and/or other vets (Marshmont?) continue to slide, Does Dougie continue to improve, and what about the other young D men? There are other things worth discussing as well, such as what is the best deployment for Yeti, but I think this time of year is more for personnel moreso than tactics, although I recognize they are related.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

The biggest storyline, IMO, is what Chiarelli is going to do with the defense. He's come out and admitted he has too many defenseman and not enough cap space. You can do the math, but something is going to give.
 
The second biggest is whether or not Pastrnak can break camp with the big club; or more generally, which rookies/prospects will break camp with the big club.

 

[TheRealness]

The biggest storyline, IMO, is what Chiarelli is going to do with the defense. He's come out and admitted he has too many defenseman and not enough cap space. You can do the math, but something is going to give.
 
The second biggest is whether or not Pastrnak can break camp with the big club; or more generally, which rookies/prospects will break camp with the big club.

 
I think the biggest story line is what to do with the third line (Spooner? Fraser? Pastrnak?), the second is the fact both Krug and Smith remain unsigned, and then I'd put the defensive spots after that. 
 
Pastrnak is going to have the most time to create an impression, but the rookie tournament is against rookies (obviously), so he's going to look pretty good against those guys. I am much more interested in seeing how he matches up physically with the veteran players, and how he adapts to the physicality of the NHL. 
 
Spooner is the guy to watch for me. If he's ready physically to stand up the size of the NHL players, his speed could really open things up for everyone else on the third line is Soderberg effectively moves to wing. 

 

[cshea]

Yeah, the elephant in the room is the cap dump that's going to have to occur at some point. They are already eating into Savard's LTIR, and they still have to sign Reilly Smith and Torey Krug. Chiarelli said he'd like to have those two signed before camp opens (Thursday) but there has been very little chatter on either front so that seems a bit optimistic. The Bruins have both by the balls though, neither Smith not Krug have enough service time to be eligible for full RFA status so they can't negotiate with anyone other than the Bruins. Their only option is holding out which won't a accomplish much so it's sort of a waiting game to see if/when they blink.

Once Krug and Smith are taken care of, something will have to give on and it'll come on defense. They've got Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, Hamilton, Bartkowski, Miller and McQuaid as 7 NHL D under contract. Krug is #8. Something's got to give and Chiarelli has been pretty steadfast in saying he'll trade a D for cap relief. My guess is McQuaid, Bartkowski and Boychuk are the most likely trade candidates with Krug as a dark horse.

Up front, assuming Smith signs, there are two vacant wing spots. Iginla and Thornton's. With Smith the lineup probably looks something like:

Lucic - Krejci - Eriksson
Marchand - Bergeron - Smith
Kelly - Soderberg - XX
Paille - Campbell - XX

All indications are that Loui Eriksson will get the first crack at Igina's spot on the Krejci line. The final two spots will be a camp battle. David Pastrnak turned some heads in development camp and is a right shot which is a plus. Ryan Spooner should get a good look too, but the issue with him is he has no positional flexibility and is strictly a center . Theoretically you could move Soderberg back to the wing, but I'm not sure I'd mess with Soderberg given how he looked at center for the back half of last season and in the playoffs. I'm not really sure Spooner has much of a future in Boston, I think he could be trade bait. The rest of the guys competing will be young guys like Justin Florek, Matt Lindblad, Matt Fraser, Brian Ferlin and then the vets in on tryouts (Simon Gagne and Ville Leino).

Anyways, should be an interesting camp to see how things shake out. The lineup seems a bit more fluid than in recent years despite the inactive offseason.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Yeah, the elephant in the room is the cap dump that's going to have to occur at some point. They are already eating into Savard's LTIR, and they still have to sign Reilly Smith and Torey Krug. Chiarelli said he'd like to have those two signed before camp opens (Thursday) but there has been very little chatter on either front so that seems a bit optimistic. The Bruins have both by the balls though, neither Smith not Krug have enough service time to be eligible for full RFA status so they can't negotiate with anyone other than the Bruins. Their only option is holding out which won't a accomplish much so it's sort of a waiting game to see if/when they blink.

Once Krug and Smith are taken care of, something will have to give on and it'll come on defense. They've got Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, Hamilton, Bartkowski, Miller and McQuaid as 7 NHL D under contract. Krug is #8. Something's got to give and Chiarelli has been pretty steadfast in saying he'll trade a D for cap relief. My guess is McQuaid, Bartkowski and Boychuk are the most likely trade candidates with Krug as a dark horse.

Up front, assuming Smith signs, there are two vacant wing spots. Iginla and Thornton's. With Smith the lineup probably looks something like:

Lucic - Krejci - Eriksson
Marchand - Bergeron - Smith
Kelly - Soderberg - XX
Paille - Campbell - XX

All indications are that Loui Eriksson will get the first crack at Igina's spot on the Krejci line. The final two spots will be a camp battle. David Pastrnak turned some heads in development camp and is a right shot which is a plus. Ryan Spooner should get a good look too, but the issue with him is he has no positional flexibility and is strictly a center . Theoretically you could move Soderberg back to the wing, but I'm not sure I'd mess with Soderberg given how he looked at center for the back half of last season and in the playoffs. I'm not really sure Spooner has much of a future in Boston, I think he could be trade bait. The rest of the guys competing will be young guys like Justin Florek, Matt Lindblad, Matt Fraser, Brian Ferlin and then the vets in on tryouts (Simon Gagne and Ville Leino).

Anyways, should be an interesting camp to see how things shake out. The lineup seems a bit more fluid than in recent years despite the inactive offseason.

I'd like to see Soderberg on line 1 with Krejci and Loui.  He did better at C last year, but I'm not sure how much success he will have centering, say, Kelly and Florek versus playing wing with Krejci and Loui.  There was very obvious chemistry between Soderberg and Eriksson last year, that was part of his sucess, too. Also you open up a center position for Spooner to break in.

 

[cshea]

That could work, but Krejci and Looch have basically been joined at the hip since Savard's injury. I'm not sure they're ready to give up on that. Soderberg also can't play right wing due to the eye injury, so Lucic - Krejci - Soderberg wouldn't work. 

 

[Eddie Jurak]

That could work, but Krejci and Looch have basically been joined at the hip since Savard's injury. I'm not sure they're ready to give up on that. Soderberg also can't play right wing due to the eye injury, so Lucic - Krejci - Soderberg wouldn't work. 

Lucic to line 2, Marchand to a different NHL city.

I tend to think that Soderberg needs to either stay at C or stay with Eriksson.

 

[McDrew]

Based on the fact that he bulked up 15 pounds in the offseason, it looks like McQuaid is not going to slouch in trying to win one of the 6 spots.  Hopefully he can improve and move up to pairing with Seids or Chara at times if he can earn that playing time. 

 

[TSC]

With Thornton gone, I can't see the Bruins moving McQuaid. He's really the only guy on the roster who both 1.) Can Fight, and B.) We'd be willing to let him fight.
 
Campbell, for all his heart - can't fight worth a damn, and Lucic + Chara are too valuable to have them sitting 5 minutes in the box.

 

[kenneycb]

What about Miller? I thought he held his own last year. McQuaid is a better dman most likely but not by an absurd margin or anything.

 

[cshea]

Yeah, to me Miller and McQuaid are redundant. The Bruins only really have room for one of then and the most likely scenario is a McQuaid trade.
To be honest, I think Miller may be a better overall player than McQuaid anyway. He's not as tall as McQuaid but he can certainly handle himself with the gloves off.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I'd keep McQuaid around for depth purposes alone. Someone is going to get hurt and Seids will be coming back from a major lower body injury in his mid-30's. Chara's also old and will need rest, etc. etc. Have we heard anything on Krug yet?

 

[TSC]

I completely forgot about Miller. Good point. He's younger, cheaper, and probably better than McQuaid. 
 
Durr.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Yeah, to me Miller and McQuaid are redundant. The Bruins only really have room for one of then and the most likely scenario is a McQuaid trade.
To be honest, I think Miller may be a better overall player than McQuaid anyway. He's not as tall as McQuaid but he can certainly handle himself with the gloves off.

Also, McQuaid makes a lot more. They could save almost $1M by moving McQuaid.
 
Keep Miller, move McQuaid.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Miller/Bart is a fine 6/7. You also have Morrow, a good upside guy awaiting his turn in Providence as the #8, and a poor man's Krug in Warsofsky. Moving McQuaid is one of the most painless ways to help ease the cap crunch.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The problem is, who is going to want McQuaid, given his salary and recent injury history?

I'm also not yet sold on Miller. In terms of usage, he was very sheltered last year. And he was exposed at times in the playoffs. He may progress further, but at this point is rank him at 8 or 9 of their nine.

 

[cshea]

FWIW, Friedman's column ( http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-new-nhl-rules-and-summer-news/) had a note that the B's and Oilers were chatting about Boychuk and/or Bartkowski over the summer. He says it fell apart presumably because the B's want to hang on to Boychuk for another run at the Cup, but there's still a lot of smoke still around it. It might be something to keep an eye on. Edmonton has cap space, needs defenseman, has wingers and picks/prospects to offer, and Boychuk's from Edmonton so perhaps the Oil think they could get him to sign there long term. I think it's a mistake to move Boychuk, but this does make some sense for both sides. The Oilers are a decent match.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

The problem is, who is going to want McQuaid, given his salary and recent injury history?

I'm also not yet sold on Miller. In terms of usage, he was very sheltered last year. And he was exposed at times in the playoffs. He may progress further, but at this point is rank him at 8 or 9 of their nine.

 
The injuries are one thing but at $1.5mil McQuaid's contract is very favorable for teams with cap space. Stranger things have been done by teams desperate for veteran help on D (see Ference, Andrew).
 
Boychuk would yield more savings and a better return, but I'm not too keen on shipping him out.

 

[cshea]

B's/Preds rookie game about to start. No TV or stream, but a few of the writers are there giving updates.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

If you have time, any notable prospect news from the game would be welcomed.

 

[cshea]

I think it is 2-1 Bruins. Griffith and Pastrnak with the goals. Griffith set up the Pastrnak goal too. Feast or famine from Pastrnak. Scores a goal then apparently tried an deke move that got picked off and led him to take a penalty to prevent a breakaway.

 

[cshea]

4-2 Bruins midway through the 3rd. Alex Fallstrom and Brian Ferlin with the Bruin goals this period. Subban has been in net the entire game.

Edit: 4-2 is the final.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I'm surprised they are even thinking of keeping Pastrnak.  

 

[The Mort Report]

I think people are putting too much stock in "stacking" the first line.  As stated, Soderberg and Eriksson showed great chemistry, why break that up?
 
Lucic-Kejci-Gagne
Marchand-Bergy-Smith
Kelly-Soderberg-Eriksson
Fraser/Florek-Campbell-Paille
 
While I haven't seen David Pastrnak play, the whole feast or famine thing doesn't really fit for this team.  I would rather give a spot to Gagne who is proven, albeit not for a few years.  It looks like he has been hurt the last few years, and while I don't remotely expect him to return to a 40+ goal scorer, he is just 34 and 20 goals would not surprise me if he stayed healthy playing on the top line.  He also has tons of experience, which is more important for this team.  I could easily see flopping Gagne and Eriksson but I think going with a proven talent like Gagne as long as he can prove healthy is best for the team.
 
Plus if he fails you have Pastrnak in the minors to fill his spot

 

[kenneycb]

I'm pretty sure he's not old enough to be in the AHL so his only exposure could be a 10 game tryout.

Also I'm not sure if Gagne is actually any good anymore even if he is healthy.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I'm pretty sure he's not old enough to be in the AHL so his only exposure could be a 10 game tryout.

Also I'm not sure if Gagne is actually any good anymore even if he is healthy.

Isn't that just a rule for CHL players?

 

[kenneycb]

That is true. You only have to be 18 for the AHL unless you're in the CHL. Then you have to be 20.

 

[cshea]

According to EliteProspects, Pastrnak was drafted by the Belleville Bulls in the 2014 CHL import draft. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that means he is not eligible to play in the AHL. It's either back to Sweden, play for Belleville, or play for Boston. 
 
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=130383
 
My guess is if all goes well at camp they'll at least carry him for the first month or so and then make a decision around the 10-game tryout limit. Some of the decision will depend on how the rest of the roster shakes out and what comes back in any trade. I'd be hesitant to rush him simply because he fills an immediate need.

 

[cshea]

Fluto says Smith will be a holdout. Krug too most likely, but no confirmation on that front.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/09/17/bruins-reilly-smith-expected-hold-out-start-camp/9tSIa9qSxZDQdP0OTnYcRK/story.html

Also, random but Fluto and Haggs both have said that Smith and Krug will be the first holdouts under Chiarelli. What am I missing with Phil Kessel? He was a holdout, no? That trade came near the end of camp.

Edit: To answer my question, Phil was traded on 9/18. So either right before camp started or right after it opened. It wasn't at the end.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

They should absolutely hold out, they deserve to get paid whatever they're worth after their contributions last season. This is a pivotal moment for Chiarelli because those are two really good assets that this team needs.

 

[TFP]

They should absolutely hold out, they deserve to get paid whatever they're worth after their contributions last season. This is a pivotal moment for Chiarelli because those are two really good assets that this team needs.

They have absolutely no leverage though. They can either play for the Bruins or not at all in the NHL. Chiarelli is smart to use that leverage to the extent he can without ruining the relationship with the player. There are also replacements up and coming for both, and both have only demonstrated 1 year's worth of play. They'd be wise not to overplay their hand either. I like both players a lot, but they are not irreplaceable.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

They have absolutely no leverage though. They can either play for the Bruins or not at all in the NHL. Chiarelli is smart to use that leverage to the extent he can without ruining the relationship with the player. There are also replacements up and coming for both, and both have only demonstrated 1 year's worth of play. They'd be wise not to overplay their hand either. I like both players a lot, but they are not irreplaceable.

Agreed.

 

[TheRealness]

They have absolutely no leverage though. They can either play for the Bruins or not at all in the NHL. Chiarelli is smart to use that leverage to the extent he can without ruining the relationship with the player. There are also replacements up and coming for both, and both have only demonstrated 1 year's worth of play. They'd be wise not to overplay their hand either. I like both players a lot, but they are not irreplaceable.

 
Haggs was talking about this on T&R. Said they were the type of RFAs that could not negotiate with any other teams, so it was play for the Bruins or hold out. He felt the Bruins were playing this very conservatively, and taking a hard line approach. Haggs indicated both Smith and Krug balked at it, and most recently refused to attend the Bruins golf tournament at the International, which apparently rubbed the Bruins the wrong way. Haggs felt something would get done, but that both Smith and Krug are looking for much bigger contracts than anticipated, so unless the Bruins moved someone it might be an extended holdout. 
 
Haggs also professed his undying affection for Pastrnak. Nice that he found another young right handed quick footed binky to lust after again. 

 

[TheRealness]

 

Wings sign DeKeyser to a 2 year deal
 
https://twitter.com/TSNAaronWard/status/511989606188077056
 
https://twitter.com/TSNAaronWard/status/511990517429972992
 
 

 
This was on the news thread, but it reminded me that Haggs was saying Krug was looking for something more than what DeKeyser gets. So, that would mean Krug is looking at $2.5m-3m, iirc.

 

[RedOctober3829]

It could be worse.  We could be the Blue Jackets dealing with Ryan Johansen.  Johansen's agent has compared him to Stamkos, Toews, and Kane and says he should get paid like them.  John Davidson has described the negotiations as "extortion".
 
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2014/09/davidson-its-extortion.html

 

[PedroSpecialK]

My gut feeling is that this 'holdout' is a way for the players to publicly save face until the B's can get Savard on LTIR and sign them.

 

[cshea]

Reilly Smith is getting screwed because of the lockout. He's played close to 2 full seasons in the NHL but hasn't accrued enough games played to gain full RFA rights partially because of the short 2013 season. Krug wasn't a full time player that year anyway. He's probably asking for something in the neighborhood of PK Subban's second contract (2/$5.75). Very similar NHL career arcs through their first season and change. The Bruins probably come back with the sheltered minutes, poor defense argument.

Sucks for them, but they don't have many options. If they don't sign by 12/1'they burn the year completely and all that does is waste a year of earning power while simultaneously pushing free agency back. My guess is they both drag it out a bit and reluctantly sign close to 10/8.

 

[veritas]

I wonder what the trade market would be for Krug. It would have to be a team willing to sign him to a long term deal, does the NHL allow trades conditional on contract negotiations with the receiving team?

I love Krug but feel like he's the type of player that a few teams might way overvalue and make a stupid trade for. The contract status is obviously a major complication to his value though

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I wonder what the trade market would be for Krug. It would have to be a team willing to sign him to a long term deal, does the NHL allow trades conditional on contract negotiations with the receiving team?

I love Krug but feel like he's the type of player that a few teams might way overvalue and make a stupid trade for. The contract status is obviously a major complication to his value though

This would be completely idiotic. Just because he's weak on defense as a 23 year old rookie doesn't mean he won't get better.  And he adds an offensive dimension that the team has literally not seen since Bourque was in his prime.   And he was one of the few guys who rose to the occasion during a disppointing playoff run. 
 
Trading him for draft picks or prospects doesn't really make sense because he is what you hope your prospects can become.  Trading him for veterans is probably some thing the team can't afford.  And it's hard to make the team on the ice better by removing a key piece from the best power play the Bruins have had in recent memory. 

 

[veritas]

This would be completely idiotic. Just because he's weak on defense as a 23 year old rookie doesn't mean he won't get better.  And he adds an offensive dimension that the team has literally not seen since Bourque was in his prime.   And he was one of the few guys who rose to the occasion during a disppointing playoff run. 
 
Trading him for draft picks or prospects doesn't really make sense because he is what you hope your prospects can become.  Trading him for veterans is probably some thing the team can't afford.  And it's hard to make the team on the ice better by removing a key piece from the best power play the Bruins have had in recent memory. 

 
It would be completely idiotic to think about trading a player you currently can't afford to sign, without even considering what you could get in return for him? Please explain your position further.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

 
It would be completely idiotic to think about trading a player you currently can't afford to sign, without even considering what you could get in return for him? Please explain your position further.

If the goal is to make the 2014-2015 team better (or at least to not make it worse), then any deal for Krug would have to bring back a low-salary roster player who improves the team more than losing Krug hurts it.  There aren't too many of those in the league, and teams generally are not itching to trade such players.
 
Obviously there are more options if the team is willing to consider deals that hurt the team in the short term.  But how on earth is that a good idea?  Other than Hamilton, those core of this team has largely peaked, and the team as a whole was exposed in the Montreal series.    
 
I know there's a school of thought that Krug is, on balance, a liability because his problems on defense outweigh his offensive contributions, but that is unspeakably dumb.

 

[lexrageorge]

My guess is that Krug's trade value is a lot less than his value to the 2014-15 Bruins.  He's a perfect fit for this team and the power play.  Then again, I'm in the camp that believes he will get better defensively as time goes on.  
 
While it's not idiotic to explore or discuss trades revolving around Krug, especially as the team does have a cap issue, I'd still say the chance are that he'll be here once the regular season starts. The downside is that he'll need a few weeks to get up to speed again; it's my unprofessional opinion that missing training camp will be a bad thing for his development this season.  
 

I know there's a school of thought that Krug is, on balance, a liability because his problems on defense outweigh his offensive contributions, but that is unspeakably dumb

 
I agree with you 100%, but that doesn't mean that discussing trade possibilities is out of bounds either.  

 

[cshea]

I bet Krug has a ton of trade value. In fact, he may have the second highest trade value on the team behind Hamilton. He's a 23 year old elite offensive defenseman under team control for 4 more years. They'd be dumb to not at least explore his trade value. I wouldn't move him though. His offense more than covers his defensive deficiencies. At even strength he had the 5th highest Corsi on the team (behind the Bergeron line and Loui Eriksson). Sure he is heavily sheltered with heavy o-done starts and playing weak competition, but Julien has figured out how to deploy him properly to maximize Krug's production. No reason they can't continue to do this, they aren't counting on him being a guy logging too pair minutes.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I bet Krug has a ton of trade value. In fact, he may have the second highest trade value on the team behind Hamilton. He's a 23 year old elite offensive defenseman under team control for 4 more years. They'd be dumb to not at least explore his trade value. I wouldn't move him though. His offense more than covers his defensive deficiencies. At even strength he had the 5th highest Corsi on the team (behind the Bergeron line and Loui Eriksson). Sure he is heavily sheltered with heavy o-done starts and playing weak competition, but Julien has figured out how to deploy him properly to maximize Krug's production. No reason they can't continue to do this, they aren't counting on him being a guy logging too pair minutes.

I wouldn't trade him or even explore it. He's exactly the type of player the Bruins should be looking to trade for not trade away.
 
Young, cost controlled offensive defensemen don't come along very often.

 

[TFP]

I know there's a school of thought that Krug is, on balance, a liability because his problems on defense outweigh his offensive contributions, but that is unspeakably dumb.

There is? I sure haven't seen it here on these boards. Everyone here as I can tell is a fan of Krug the player overall, despite his defensive limitations.
 
I think Chiarelli has to explore trade options, but despite getting absolutely blown away (which I don't expect to happen), he absolutely shouldn't trade him. He also shouldn't cave and overpay for him in this negotiation just because Krug doesn't want to sign a contract.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

He also shouldn't cave and overpay for him in this negotiation just because Krug doesn't want to sign a contract.

Agree. No reason to cave. Warsofsky can fill in until December if need be. Krug and Smith need to accept that they have no leverage.

 

[cshea]

So we're officially underway with camp. Lucic, Campbell and Linus Arnesson are all limited and won't practice right out of the gate. Lucic is recovering from wrist surgery, and Campbell and Arnesson have groin issues.

Chiarelli says with Smith not present, there are 4 forward spots up for grabs. Very interesting camp this year.

 

[The Napkin]

https://twitter.com/NickGossNESN/status/512971865615503360