I disagree on your cutoffs if Chad Ford is correct that WCS is Ainge's move up target. 5, 6, and possibly even 8 could all be in play to accomplish this.Cellar-Door said:
2015 NBA Draft Thread-Choke For Oak?
- Thread starter Kliq
- Start date
BigSoxFan said:
NY hasn't had a quaity point guard in decades, maybe since Mark Jackson's rookie year? The best thing for them would really be to take whichever of Russell or Mudiay PHI doesn't grab, but I have zero confidence in Phil Jackson's GM ability.
jon abbey said:
Agreed. The real question is what can Jackson get for the pick. By my count, every team between 4 and 10, except Denver, may be looking to trade out or trade down. I think there's a real possibility that Phil will take Cauley-Stein, since he's more NBA-ready.
amfox1 said:
Taking Cauley-Stein requires the Knicks to completely change the way they play. As a Knicks fan, I actually think that would be wise, as I think the triangle's dated, but I don't expect that to happen, and Cauley-Stein just isn't a great fit as a triangle big. My instinct is that they sign Greg Monroe, and end up taking Winslow at 4. He seems more "triangle ready" than Mudiay.
That said, if free agency goes poorly I wouldn't be shocked to see them reach for Porzingis here. The triangle can't function without bigs, and if they can't add them in free agency I wouldn't be shocked if they panic a bit.
Porzingis isn't a traditional big who fits the triangle however. He's an excellent 3-point shooter and perimeter player but is very raw offensively in the paint. I agree that WCS isn't a fit in NY but I'm not sure we'd have to move up that high which would likely mean giving up Smart when we can work with teams below NY for less.Grin&MartyBarret said:
moondog80 said:
PG: Rubio/LaVine
SG: Martin/#31 and/or #36 pick
SF: Wiggins/Muhammed/Budinger
PF: Garnett/Payne/Bennett
C: #1 pick (Towns or Okafor)/Dieng/Pekovic
Minn is at $56mm salary-wise, plus whatever Garnett signs for, plus the cost of the draft picks. So, they will not be signing a major free agent although they will have a mid-level slot available.
Minn would love to trade (1) Pekovic, who is 29, oft-injured and owed nearly $36mm over the next three years, (2) Bennett, who looks like a complete bust although he is just 22, and/or (3) Rubio, who turns 25 in October, is owed $55mm over the next four years.
My guess is that Minn will be looking to make a trade at the draft (not for the #1 pick, of course) and it wouldn't surprise me if Minn bundles their #31 and #36 picks to move into the 20s and grab a shooting guard to back up Kevin Martin and/or trades Pekovic for nothing in order to free up some salary room.
Minnesota would love to trade Rubio? They just signed him to that deal like a minute ago. What's changed?
bowiac said:
Maybe they think Zach Lavine can handle PG, and trading Rubio and his 35% FG allows them to dump Pekovic as well, get something in return, and free up space to bring in another FA (as amfox points out, they don't have as much cap space as I had thought).
Lose Remerswaal said:
It's not that they can't in the 12 worst teams--it's that the pick can't be #1 through #12 right? There's a difference.
That's what this site says: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
They can finish as the 13th worst team, win the lottery, and we don't get the pick.
I think that is his natural position anyway. As a 3 in this league you're asked to matchup with the LeBrons, George's, Carmelo's, and other bigger more physical players than he is. It doesn't make any sense to utilize him in this manner......he's your current and future 2.nighthob said:
Devizier said:
Rubio is a really weird case, and I think there's a pretty reasonable argument to be made that his shooting doesn't kill his teams as much as, say, Rondo's does.
The reason for that is that he's actually a reasonably good shooter from three when he's shooting from above the break. He's a terrible finisher in the paint, which drags his shooting percentages way down, but is respectable enough from 3 that he doesn't kill spacing to the degree of a Rondo.
To be clear, his lack of finishing is still a problem. But I think you can hide it easier with Rubio.
DrewDawg said:
Correct.
Odds are really really low of this happening . . . which is why it will happen, as the C's aren't too lucky at the draft lottery thing
It's pretty amazing that the Celtics may end up with four late lottery picks next year.
In the west I think we would be screwed, but in the east I think it's possible the Celtics may be able to pull off what Atlanta has done. Horford was the only high draft pick in that group. Millsap was a free agent. Korver was traded from the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and cash. Jeff Teague was drafted 19th.
If Danny can find a euro center like Mozgov, get lucky and find a star with one of our late lottery picks (or sign one in free agency) and build a strong cast of role players with all of our picks from the Mavs, Nets, Wolves, and Clippers then the Celtics could be a contender. It's a long shot, but it's possible the Celtics might succeed without tanking.
In the west I think we would be screwed, but in the east I think it's possible the Celtics may be able to pull off what Atlanta has done. Horford was the only high draft pick in that group. Millsap was a free agent. Korver was traded from the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and cash. Jeff Teague was drafted 19th.
If Danny can find a euro center like Mozgov, get lucky and find a star with one of our late lottery picks (or sign one in free agency) and build a strong cast of role players with all of our picks from the Mavs, Nets, Wolves, and Clippers then the Celtics could be a contender. It's a long shot, but it's possible the Celtics might succeed without tanking.
Atlanta vs. Eastern Conf 38-14 73%BigSoxFan said:
Atlanta vs. Western Conf. 22-8 73%
This Hawks team is a contender in any conference this year.
And it wasn't like they beat up on the bad teams either.HomeRunBaker said:
11-5 against playoff teams in the West. (.688 Winning%)
DAL- 2-0
GSW- 1-1
HOU- 2-0
LAC- 2-0
MEM- 1-1
NOP- 1-1
POR- 2-0
SAS- 0-2
GS had a 79% WP against those teams,
HOU was at 47%
CLE at 56%
The next week or two will do much to prove whether the Hawks ultimately are or aren't a real championship contender...but all things considered, wouldn't it be much better for the league as a whole if it turns out they are, and that it is actually possible to win the title (or come pretty darn close) when your biggest star is Al Horford?
Al Horford is legitimately one of the ten best players in the NBA. The man is the total package on both sides of the ball. He scores what you need him to, can score in the post or from the mid ranges. Passes well out of doubleteams, defends the paint, and can flash out on shooters. Guys like that are easy to build around because they fit with nearly any surrounding cast.
You mean the LAST week or two, no? When you are playing in the Conference Finals you are by definition....a contender.ConigliarosPotential said:
I expect Cleveland to win in 6 however that isn't relevant to the discussion of whether an EC Finalist is a contender.
If only there was another Stifle Tower in this draft...moly99 said:
I wonder what sort of package, if any, would get Utah not to laugh at Danny if he asked about him.
There is trading up for WCS who Ainge interviewed at the Combine or selecting Robert Upshaw, the longest and best shot blocker in college basketball last year until he lost his mind again, who Ainge also interviewed.moly99 said:
Mickey reminds me of Ibaka, elite shot blocker in a smaller package, with glimpses of a developing mid range shot.moly99 said:
There's also a host of euro big men I know nothing about that Draft Express has going in the 2nd round, there may well be a developing rim protector in that group that we could stash for a year or two.
Chad Ford's latest mock draft included the following nugget...
On the bright side, at least he's elite at something.
Kevin O'Connor @KevinOConnorNBA 16h16 hours ago
Wrote this on May 3 on @celticsblog (http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/3/8537635/the-boston-celtics-have-the-pieces-to-trade-up-and-grab-the-prospect-2015-nba-draft …). Celtics-Hornets are a very strong pair for a trade.
Wrote this on May 3 on @celticsblog (http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/3/8537635/the-boston-celtics-have-the-pieces-to-trade-up-and-grab-the-prospect-2015-nba-draft …). Celtics-Hornets are a very strong pair for a trade.
Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 19h19 hours ago
Ex-Arkansas wing Michael Qualls tore his ACL in his 1st team workout in Phoenix Thursday, sources told ESPN. 1st reported by @DraftExpress
Ex-Arkansas wing Michael Qualls tore his ACL in his 1st team workout in Phoenix Thursday, sources told ESPN. 1st reported by @DraftExpress
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 22h22 hours ago
George Lucas de Paula, the Brazilian point guard with humongous hands, will withdraw from the draft his agent tells ESPN.
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 23h23 hours ago
Hernangomez, Osman & Jaiteh three international guys most likely to hear name called in late 1st or early 2nd as draft-and-stash prospects
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 17h17 hours ago
With Lance Stephenson gone & Spencer Hawes on board, chances Hornets take a 2-guard like Devin Booker or Kelly Oubre at No. 9 just went up
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 17h17 hours ago
Hornets also like RJ Hunter a lot, but won't take him at 9. It's possible they trade down a few spots for Hunter & pick up another asset
George Lucas de Paula, the Brazilian point guard with humongous hands, will withdraw from the draft his agent tells ESPN.
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 23h23 hours ago
Hernangomez, Osman & Jaiteh three international guys most likely to hear name called in late 1st or early 2nd as draft-and-stash prospects
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 17h17 hours ago
With Lance Stephenson gone & Spencer Hawes on board, chances Hornets take a 2-guard like Devin Booker or Kelly Oubre at No. 9 just went up
Chad Ford @chadfordinsider 17h17 hours ago
Hornets also like RJ Hunter a lot, but won't take him at 9. It's possible they trade down a few spots for Hunter & pick up another asset
Mock draft 2.0 (with some notes):
1 LAL (from MIN) - Towns (LAL gives up #27 pick to move up one spot, both teams get the player they want)
2 MIN (from LAL) - Okafor
3 PHI - Porzingis (rising up the draft board)
4 NYK - Russell (obvious pick if Porzingis goes #3)
5 ORL - Cauley-Stein (floor for Porzingis)
6 SAC - Hezonja
7 DEN - Mudiay
8 DET - Winslow (rumored to want to trade out of the pick, draft really begins at #8)
9 CHA - Booker
10 MIA - S.Johnson
11 IND - Turner
12 UTA - Kaminsky
13 PHX - Lyles
14 OKC - Payne
15 ATL - Portis
16 BOS - Dekker (talent begins dropping off around this point - choice among Dekker, Anderson and Oubre, who has reportedly had mixed workouts; Dekker will be able to contribute immediately and will fit in with Boston's offense)
17 MIL - Looney
18 HOU - Jones (reportedly has promise)
19 WAS - Grant (reportedly has promise)
20 TOR - Oubre
21 DAL - Hunter
22 CHI - Anderson
23 POR - Vaughn
24 CLE - Harrell
25 MEM - Hollis-Jefferson
26 SAS - Wright
27 MIN (from LAL) - McCullough
28 BOS - Hernangomez (6-11 center from Sevilla)
29 BRK - Rozier
30 GSW - Brown
31 MIN - Osman
32 HOU - Upshaw
33 BOS - Martin (6-9 forward from LSU)
1 LAL (from MIN) - Towns (LAL gives up #27 pick to move up one spot, both teams get the player they want)
2 MIN (from LAL) - Okafor
3 PHI - Porzingis (rising up the draft board)
4 NYK - Russell (obvious pick if Porzingis goes #3)
5 ORL - Cauley-Stein (floor for Porzingis)
6 SAC - Hezonja
7 DEN - Mudiay
8 DET - Winslow (rumored to want to trade out of the pick, draft really begins at #8)
9 CHA - Booker
10 MIA - S.Johnson
11 IND - Turner
12 UTA - Kaminsky
13 PHX - Lyles
14 OKC - Payne
15 ATL - Portis
16 BOS - Dekker (talent begins dropping off around this point - choice among Dekker, Anderson and Oubre, who has reportedly had mixed workouts; Dekker will be able to contribute immediately and will fit in with Boston's offense)
17 MIL - Looney
18 HOU - Jones (reportedly has promise)
19 WAS - Grant (reportedly has promise)
20 TOR - Oubre
21 DAL - Hunter
22 CHI - Anderson
23 POR - Vaughn
24 CLE - Harrell
25 MEM - Hollis-Jefferson
26 SAS - Wright
27 MIN (from LAL) - McCullough
28 BOS - Hernangomez (6-11 center from Sevilla)
29 BRK - Rozier
30 GSW - Brown
31 MIN - Osman
32 HOU - Upshaw
33 BOS - Martin (6-9 forward from LSU)
I would take Oubre over Dekker 12 times out of 10. Dekker is essentially Jeff Green's brother from another mother. He doesn't do anything particularly well and is mostly suited for a role as a swing forward off the bench. He has a higher floor than Oubre, but there's really no ceiling. If you're starting Dekker your team isn't a contender (unless you have a James Harden type at one of the guard spots and a killer PF). Oubre, on the other hand, has a really high ceiling, even if bust is the most likely outcome. Given how awful this draft is outside the top 10, they really need to swing for the fences and gamble. However, I'll be shocked if Oubre actually makes it to #16, so realistically they should be trying to cash that pick in for a future first if they can't trade up (and increasingly I suspect that they may not be able to).
nighthob said:
DET and CHA were rumored to be potential BOS trade partners but, with their recent trades, look more and more like they'll be picking at their current spots. Ainge is reportedly dangling both 1st rounders in a bid to move up.
Chad Ford thoughts:
1. MIN - Okafor/Towns
2. LAL - Likely will take the other, but still considering Russell/Porzingis
3. PHI - Porzingis/Russell
4. NYK - Likely will take whoever drops of the top 4 (Mudiay now considered in the next tier)/Cauley-Stein
5. ORL - Porzingis, if he drops/Hezonja/Cauley-Stein
6. SAC - Mudiay, if he drops/Cauley-Stein/Hezonja
7. DEN - Hezonja/Winslow
8. DET - Hezonja/Winslow or, if neither are there, Johnson or look to trade down for Dekker
9. CHA - might want to trade down (BOS would like to trade up for Cauley-Stein/Hezonja/Winslow)
10. MIA - Johnson/Dekker/Kaminsky
11. IND - Cauley-Stein/Johnson/Payne/Turner/Portis
12. UTA - Johnson/Turner/Lyles
Hunter range 14-23 (fits into possible CHA/BOS swap)
Vaughn/RHJ range 14-21 (both mentioned as possible BOS #16 picks)
19 WAS - Lyles/Portis, if they drop/Looney/Harrell
1. MIN - Okafor/Towns
2. LAL - Likely will take the other, but still considering Russell/Porzingis
3. PHI - Porzingis/Russell
4. NYK - Likely will take whoever drops of the top 4 (Mudiay now considered in the next tier)/Cauley-Stein
5. ORL - Porzingis, if he drops/Hezonja/Cauley-Stein
6. SAC - Mudiay, if he drops/Cauley-Stein/Hezonja
7. DEN - Hezonja/Winslow
8. DET - Hezonja/Winslow or, if neither are there, Johnson or look to trade down for Dekker
9. CHA - might want to trade down (BOS would like to trade up for Cauley-Stein/Hezonja/Winslow)
10. MIA - Johnson/Dekker/Kaminsky
11. IND - Cauley-Stein/Johnson/Payne/Turner/Portis
12. UTA - Johnson/Turner/Lyles
Hunter range 14-23 (fits into possible CHA/BOS swap)
Vaughn/RHJ range 14-21 (both mentioned as possible BOS #16 picks)
19 WAS - Lyles/Portis, if they drop/Looney/Harrell
Depends on how high they wish to move up. I don't see Ainge touching those BKN picks as they have the potential to be Top-5 in multiple seasons with the impending fire sale this summer as Prokhorov clears the books as he's looking to sell the team.Devizier said:
HomeRunBaker said:
Brooklyn has less incentive to be bad the next 3 seasons than they do to clear books. A new owner will want flexibility to rebuild the team and can't if they're shitty and don't own their own picks. Instead, the incentives pressure them to try to be middling while skating around the luxury tax line. That like means the Cs get picks in the 10-20 range.
Realistically... Assuming Lopez opts out, I suspect they'll shoot for a quick fix by attempting an S&T for picks/cheap (backcourt) talent this year, stretch Williams either this year or next, and go full bore in the Durant sweeps next year. That keeps them mildly interesting while also lowering salary commitment.
This was my thought in light of the Ilyasova and Stephenson trades. If I were Ainge I might be willing to let the Hornets have #16 for Hunter in exchange for a future first because that will likely have some trade value for them in the future.amfox1 said:
Sign & trades no longer mean extra money. So the only way it happens is if a team over the cap wants Pouffy Lopez and views him as the missing piece. But they don't give you major assets. And the Bucks are not in a position where they have to use a sign & trade thanks to their recent salary dump. Even if they did, what they'd be offering is the likes of OJ Mayo, not a pile of picks and young players. In their eagerness to keep players from forcing trades a la 'Melo from Denver, the owners accidentally removed from teams the ability to get something in sign & trades because the cash is the same.zenter said:
nighthob said:
Yeah, I forgot S&T no longer offered major incentives. Good call. Either way, I see him being traded for cheaper parts.
The sales price isn't based off a teams W/L record, that doesn't factor in the negotiations at all, and while there is no incentive to be bad......there is no incentive for them NOT to be either. It's all about the books and balance sheet when finding a taker while includes (I believe) the Barclays land as well. This will be a monsterous real estate exchange.....nobody cares about a teams W/L record.zenter said:
The Nets spent two months last winter trying to move Deron to Houston or Sacramento and Joe Johnson to Detroit.....then there was the Brook Lopez to OKC deal that fell apart at the last moment. Now that an entire summer is ahead of us there is a good chance that 2 of the 3 if not all of them don't begin the season in Brooklyn.