SeoulSoxFan said:
Not so crazy now.
Edit: still think there's a decent chance McC signs a long term contract, w/o the tag.
2015 Offseason: Non-Revis Edition
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
Not so crazy now.
Edit: still think there's a decent chance McC signs a long term contract, w/o the tag.
BigJimEd said:
I think the tag makes sense given his age--there aren't a lot of 30-32 year old free safeties playing at a top level so there's a good chance that you're overpaying for years 3-5 of the contract if you sign him long term.
E5 Yaz said:
I think it works something like this:
Teams needed to spend something like 89% of the sum of the total cap hit in cash over the past 3-4 years I believe. The Pats are up against it here because they signed Brady two days before the rule took effect, so a bunch of their cap charges the last few years were not spent in cash during those seasons, it was handed to Brady before the caluclation started. Make sense? So bonus proration doesn't count as cash spending, unless the bonus was paid in that span. Kind of converse to Brady, any big bonus signed now would go towards the sum right now and not in the future, and could help make up for Brady signing his before.
Guaranteed money or signing bonus money. The crux of this 89% issue with the Pats is the total didn't count Brady's $30 million signing bonus when he signed his last deal.E5 Yaz said:
I don't understand why Kyed is saying this. If the Pats haven't sent out enough cash thus year, there is no obstacle to increasing their cash outlay. They just ask players to renegotiate future non guaranteed salary to guaranteed signing bonus, which gets paid out immediately. What's the chance every eligible player turns them down? So I don't think this cash constraint affects anything material.soxhop411 said:
Doug Kyed @DougKyedNESNhttps://twitter.com/DougKyedNESN · 1h1 hour ago
The Patriots have to make 1 or 2 big moves this offseason, or else they're giving away cash for free with penalty. Not good business.
The Patriots have to make 1 or 2 big moves this offseason, or else they're giving away cash for free with penalty. Not good business.
I'm curious, why would they contact DMC's camp to tell him they're not franchising him? What about Vereen? Did they call him??? TIME TO PANIC OVER SOMETHING!!!soxhop411 said:
ElcaballitoMVP said:
They're probably just all in on Revis and waiting to see what happens before contacting others. What else can you do?
"Hey, Devin, we're a big fan and we'd like to sign you, just not quite as much as another guy or two. Here's an advanced contract that we would possibly consider if we do our best and can't sign our main priority and have to settle for you. Thanks, and have a wonderful day!"
This is what I'm talking about. If they need to move an extra $5M of cash out the door this year, they can change some 2016 salary to guaranteed money for guys like Brady or Stork or Collins who are almost certainly on the roster for 2016. The only downside is if that guy has a career ending injury- in which case you've spent cash this year you had to spend anyway. There's no way to save the cash-minimum dollars for future years.E5 Yaz said:
So mostly I still think Kyed's making a mountain out of a molehill. But I am willing to be corrected by a capologist.
crystalline said:
I'm not clear on whether guaranteed base salary is actually paid up front. When I was asking about who would take on the cap hit for the 3 million guaranteed in Mike Wallace's salary, Nomario stated that it would be the team trading for him. The way I understood things is that money already paid to a player sticks to the team trading the player, but money as of yet unpaid transfers to the team trading for him. Does that mean guaranteed base money is actually paid the year of the cap hit? If that's the case, your solution wouldn't work.
Especially since I learned the big signing bonus to Brady was right before the window for this spending threshhold, I am confident they have a plan for this.
Ed Hillel said:
I think what he meant by it changing to guaranteed money is that it gets converted to a bonus, paid out now, which then counts immediately and the base salary ends up being whatever the NFL veteran minimum is.
crystalline said:
There are a million things to do to get the cash spending up--mostly put bigass signing bonuses in whatever extensions/free agent signings you do over the next two seasons. With Solder, Jones, Collins, Hightower and others coming up for contract renewals this will be easy as pie.
ZMart100 said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to put the money towards better players instead of a penalty though?
I find it to be somewhat curious that the Pats have not had much communication with McCourty. Let's be clear, it's not like we have Rich Kotitle running the Pats, and I am not suggesting that not telling McCourty that he wasn't going to be franchised was, in and of itself, a mistake or a slight. Yup, there are no games for a while.
But I do find it to be curious that, assuming it's true, the Pats haven't communicated much with Devin. They have a relatively short list of key free agents, and he is undoubtedly on that list (even on the chance that they don't intend at the moment to try to retain him). I would think it would be normal to have some communication with him under those circumstances and I wonder if there is anything to be gleaned by the lack of same.
Make no mistake, I have no idea how typical this is or what the Pats' practices have been in the past in this regard. But like I said, I would think that some communication would have already taken place by now.
But I do find it to be curious that, assuming it's true, the Pats haven't communicated much with Devin. They have a relatively short list of key free agents, and he is undoubtedly on that list (even on the chance that they don't intend at the moment to try to retain him). I would think it would be normal to have some communication with him under those circumstances and I wonder if there is anything to be gleaned by the lack of same.
Make no mistake, I have no idea how typical this is or what the Pats' practices have been in the past in this regard. But like I said, I would think that some communication would have already taken place by now.
We don't know there has been no communication with McCourtey. But if that's the case, two weeks ago, I think, Curran said it's all Revis all the time, and until that is resolved, everything is at a standstill. This could be evidence of that.
This is not to say the Pats can't multitask. Very much the contrary. But Revis is so big a part of the equation, it makes little sense to expend energy on other things not involving the draft.
They were faced with a decision of who should be tagged. Now having made it, it's all Revis again until that is resolved. Which is why I don't believe this will go on much longer.
You want an alt explanation? They plan to get in on the Suh action. I don't believe it for a variety of reasons, but that's an out of left field explanation for no communication with McCourtey
This is not to say the Pats can't multitask. Very much the contrary. But Revis is so big a part of the equation, it makes little sense to expend energy on other things not involving the draft.
They were faced with a decision of who should be tagged. Now having made it, it's all Revis again until that is resolved. Which is why I don't believe this will go on much longer.
You want an alt explanation? They plan to get in on the Suh action. I don't believe it for a variety of reasons, but that's an out of left field explanation for no communication with McCourtey
Yes, I don't think it's a big deal they didn't tell him they weren't tagging him but having very little communications is different.
Some were speculating that maybe they were close to a long term deal but apparently that's not the case.
You do have wonder where he is on their priority list
Some were speculating that maybe they were close to a long term deal but apparently that's not the case.
You do have wonder where he is on their priority list
On the juggling on his back catch by Kearse in the Superbowl Harmon was the one jumping over Kearse rather than hitting him to dislodge the ball. At least Butler has the presence of mind to push him out of bounds. Just saying.SeoulSoxFan said:
Agreed. The cash issue is not a problem.Shelterdog said:
I just read Miguel's blog post on this, which we should have done a while ago. He says
"What can the Patriots do to reach the 89% cash spending floor?
Give more players signing bonuses. Give out larger signing bonuses. Draft up in the draft (higher draft picks have larger signing bonuses). Reach extensions with Solder, Chandler Jones and Hightower rather than have them play the fifth-year seasons at their option amounts. Give Brady a signing bonus in either 2015 or in 2016."
http://mobile.patsfans.com/m/articles/mobi.php?id=6308#.VPUUDst6jqB
So I am going to say that Kyed is probably wrong and the 89% spending floor will not pressure the Pats to make a splash in free agency. As a last resort I'm sure Brady would be willing to move future salary to present guaranteed bonus money.
Edit: add link
Reggie's Racquet said:
Didn't this phrase get banned around these parts about six years ago for being annoying as shit? You're not just saying, you're just not articulating your point clearly.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Not to mention, he essentially jumped over Kearse's head. When he comes flying in from his deep position, the last thing he sees is what looks like a dropped pass. If he decides to hit Kearse, here's what likely happens: he hits him in the head, the ball is incomplete, the Seahawks get 15 yards, and a first down and the entire world, including Reggie's Racquet wonders why the hell he drilled the guy when it was obvious the ball wasn't going to be caught.
Here's a still frame. Look where the ball is right before he jumps, it's at Kearse's knee:
He made the right decision not to crush him there.
Thank you. Harmon was flying by and it's a good thing he missed. Butler was laying on the ground and didn't have to worry about his momentum causing a personal foul.DrewDawg said:
Perhaps I should not have said "hitting him to dislodge the ball" but looking at the replay many times it seems to me he could have made a play on the ball.
With 1.18 remaining to play the deep pass was very likely.
Wasn't Harmon was late on the play?
Shouldn't he have been there when Butler tipped the pass not jumping by when Kearse was on his back juggling the ball?
Here are a couple of posts from the gamethread when it happened (and by experienced posters):
"DURON HARMON YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT WTF ARE YOU DOING"
"Harmon has to clean that up. Let them score."
"Duron Harmon should have killed him."
That play could have easily cost us the Superbowl.
I'm glad it didn't but if it did wouldn't anyone be looking back at that and saying where was Harmon?
With 1.18 remaining to play the deep pass was very likely.
Wasn't Harmon was late on the play?
Shouldn't he have been there when Butler tipped the pass not jumping by when Kearse was on his back juggling the ball?
Here are a couple of posts from the gamethread when it happened (and by experienced posters):
"DURON HARMON YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT WTF ARE YOU DOING"
"Harmon has to clean that up. Let them score."
"Duron Harmon should have killed him."
That play could have easily cost us the Superbowl.
I'm glad it didn't but if it did wouldn't anyone be looking back at that and saying where was Harmon?
I'm sorry blaming Harmon for that play is just dumb.
What he saw was an incomplete pass after it was defensed by Butler.
There is no chance he could possibly know that it would be one of the flukiest catches of all time.
As was stated his concern was not getting a stupid penalty.
And quoting the game thread to back you up really doesn't help that place isn't exactly known for it's rational thought.
What he saw was an incomplete pass after it was defensed by Butler.
There is no chance he could possibly know that it would be one of the flukiest catches of all time.
As was stated his concern was not getting a stupid penalty.
And quoting the game thread to back you up really doesn't help that place isn't exactly known for it's rational thought.
Reggie's Racquet said:
Maybe you?
Because everyone else knows he made the right play. He very likely would've picked up a flag. He was also playing a very deep single high safety, with 3 receiving options on the other side of the line of scrimmage before the snap. He was the last line of defense, and had Kearse not gone down, would've been in position to make the tackle. The fact that he made a fluke catch on his back shouldn't be a detriment to Harmon's abilities. And finally, that one play has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to be a long term replacement option if the Pats let DMC leave.
People are getting nervous about Revis and McCourty, but since the Brady era, how many incumbent free agents that were highly coveted by the Patriots and fans didn't end up re-signing? Asante Samuel? Wes Welker maybe, but I'm not sure the Patriots really cared that strongly to bring him back.
Reggie's Racquet said:
Thank the lord the game thread posts aren't determining the overall quality of the Patriots roster.
As BSF mentioned above, Harmon also had this play, which had a direct impact on the outcome. Watch it again -- it's still fucking awesome and as good a play as McC made all year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4N-sFwq_w
Let's keep this thread about non-Revis & non-McC story lines, as we have separate threads for them now.
There is also this thread discussing whether Harmon should have made a play for the ball.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/87920-does-harmon-get-flagged-for-diving-on-the-catch/#entry5891932
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/87920-does-harmon-get-flagged-for-diving-on-the-catch/#entry5891932
We should be hearing something on Wilfork pretty soon. I doubt they plan to pay him that $4.5M roster bonus.
Andre Johnson given permission to seek a trade, or will be cut.
He's 34, coming off of an 85 catch, 936 yards year. Might be interesting.
He's 34, coming off of an 85 catch, 936 yards year. Might be interesting.
Disgruntled? With the Texans, perhaps.
Agreed that a 34 year old wideout likely to get 3-5m on the open market is not a good target given the Pats' cap situation and WR corps. They've got other fish to fry on the lines and secondary.
Agreed that a 34 year old wideout likely to get 3-5m on the open market is not a good target given the Pats' cap situation and WR corps. They've got other fish to fry on the lines and secondary.
ElcaballitoMVP said:
He won't get the most money with a contender, but the guy's getting to that point and he's never won a ring. I could see him taking less to play with a team like the Patriots. I'm just not sure he'd add much outside of depth, honestly. Whose snaps is he taking?
Ed Hillel said:
Yeah, I was mostly kidding about the Raiders. They have money to burn and need to give Carr some weapons, so if Johnson wants the money, they seem like a logical fit.
But yeah, if he wants to win a ring, it's not going to be in Oakland.
Mystic Merlin said:
Would you rather have him or Amendola for 2015? Amendola's contract has him at $4 million for 2015, right in the middle of what you think Johnson could get.
Personally, I'd rather have Johnson, although I must say that Amendola came up huge for the Patriots at the end of this season.
I'm just trying to picture defenses covering the Pats in the red zone with both Gronk and Johnson out there.
Sorry to make this like a chat, but Seattle would seem to really stand out, and I think he has the kind of attitude that would fit in really well there. He'd have to take less, but if he wants a ring, what better fit is there?
Mike Greenberg (an unabashed Jets fan) said on Mike and Mike this morning about Andre Johnson and I am paraphrasing..."this is the kind of guy that always ends up on the Patriots and always play well." For once I hope he is right.