2015 Ravens: Achilles 4, Suggs 0, Karma 7

riboflav · Oct 27, 2015

BaseballJones said:
My teenager, when asked to clean the toilet, will often do a not-so-stellar job. I point out that there's still grime on the toilet, and he says, "Well, I wiped it down." I'll say, "The mission wasn't to 'wipe it down'. It was to make sure it's clean. Just running your paper towel over the toilet does not necessarily make it clean."

Just declaring yourself eligible to your own satisfaction is not sufficient. Gotta make sure the ref sees it.

To make the parallel.. the Ravens player is like my teenager. And the Ravens are like the dirty toilet.

Exactly. You run up to the ref talk to him face-to-face just like Vereen did last season. You practice this or at least make sure your players know to do it. Plus, if there's no announcement, then you have a pretty good idea the referee didn't notice you.

Average Reds · Oct 27, 2015

PedroKsBambino said:
There's nothing to review---if the player didn't clarify he was eligible (and it's on the player to do so, not the referee, though I agree the ref SHOULD have seen what the player did), and no announcement occurs, he is not eligible and the defense is not on notice. Isn't that the result of Harbaugh's bitching last year?

Yes, and this is an excellent point. If notification is the most important part of this play, it logically follows that Harbaugh and the Raves completely blew it last night.

GeorgeCostanza · Oct 27, 2015

MalzoneExpress said:
Ratbirds losing in the dead of night
Take these broken plays and learn to lose
All your life
We have been waiting for this moment to arise
Ratbirds crying in the dead of night
Take these sunken costs and learn to lose
All your life
We have been waiting for this moment to arise
Ratbirds die, Ratbirds die
Into the pitch of the dark black night
Ratbirds die, Ratbirds die
Into the pitch of the dark black night
Ratbirds whining in the dead of night
Take these broken plays and learn to lose
All your life
We have been waiting for this moment to arise
We have been waiting for this moment to arise
We have been waiting for this moment to arise

You took a perfectly beautiful and uplifting McCartney composition and made it.....even more beautiful and uplifting (to a pats fan). Well done!

dcmissle · Oct 27, 2015

Gunfighter 09 said:
I am enjoying this suffering in Raven land, and it is delicious that it happens on an eligible / ineligible play against Baltimore, but that ref should be face some sanction for missing the lineman reporting ten feet in front of his face. Further, that should be reviewable. It was a huge, potential four point swing against the Ravens.

It is crazy how the Broncos and Ravens are operating entirely on the two opposite poles of luck and close outcomes this year.

Real good point. The margin in the NFL is razor thin. The record is what it is, but I believe all the losses are by a combined 30 points. The Halloween nightmare about a bounce back above is entirely out of play given the injuries and has been for weeks. But there is little year to year forecasting in this League, especially with the injury component.

coremiller · Oct 27, 2015

dcmissle said:
Real good point. The margin in the NFL is razor thin. The record is what it is, but I believe all the losses are by a combined 30 points. The Halloween nightmare about a bounce back above is entirely out of play given the injuries and has been for weeks. But there is little year to year forecasting in this League, especially with the injury component.

They are 18th in SRS, and before this week they were 13th in DVOA at -0.5%. They've also played five road games, with four of them in the Central and Pacific time zones. They aren't good, but they aren't terrible either, and they're probably better than their record. They're a mediocre team that's had some bad luck to be 1-6.

edmunddantes · Oct 27, 2015

Might be time to re-purpose this one.

IOKIYAR

NFL just fine with Ravens criticizing the Refs.

Attention NFL teams: It’s apparently open season. Raise all the hell you want about officials.
Given the fact the league sent out a memo to teams early this season cautioning them against publicly complaining about officials, and given the fact the Ravens posted a detailed story on their website this morning publicly complaining about officials, we figured it was worth asking the league its opinion.
“As for the article on the team web site, if you are referring to this story, it’s an analysis of three calls in the game,” NFL spokesman Michael Signora told PFT. “There is no issue here.”

NortheasternPJ · Oct 27, 2015

riboflav said:
Exactly. You run up to the ref talk to him face-to-face just like Vereen did last season. You practice this or at least make sure your players know to do it. Plus, if there's no announcement, then you have a pretty good idea the referee didn't notice you.

I thought I heard it after the AFC Divisional Game last year, but didn't the Patriots go to the refs during the week / before the game and say "Hey, this is what we're doing, this is how we're going to do it" and walk through it?

How else would the refs been on the ball with that and how many crews would have screwed it up as it happened?

If that's the case, wouldn't the Ravens do the same thing?

Ralphwiggum · Oct 27, 2015

The Pats were doing something that the refs rightfully might have been confused about, declaring eligible guys ineligible. It was legal but it was something that the officiating crew may never had seen before so the Pats wanted to make sure they knew what was coming.

Ineligible guys declaring as eligible isn't anywhere near as unconventional. I wouldn't think you'd have to engage with the refs on that point prior to the game. The ref fucked up for sure, but it is still on the player and Harbaugh for not noticing that he ref hadn't made the announcement.

nattysez · Oct 27, 2015

riboflav said:
Exactly. You run up to the ref talk to him face-to-face just like Vereen did last season. You practice this or at least make sure your players know to do it. Plus, if there's no announcement, then you have a pretty good idea the referee didn't notice you.

They claim the crowd was too loud to hear the announcements and that they thought they heard an announcement and assumed that it was the ref announcing the eligible receiver. Excuses, excuses.

I really could not be happier about this. Enough bad things cannot happen to the Ravens.

edmunddantes · Oct 27, 2015

Note Harbaugh is saying some announcement was made, but you couldn'tt hear it. "You can never hear it"

Thus they thought the reporting actually was accomplished. I did not watch so I can't say whether any announcement was made (plus TV often cuts that out).

It's in the non-criticizing the refs piece on their website if I recall correctly.

steveluck7 · Oct 27, 2015

edmunddantes said:
Note Harbaugh is saying some announcement was made, but you couldn'tt hear it. "You can never hear it"

Thus they thought the reporting actually was accomplished. I did not watch so I can't say whether any announcement was made (plus TV often cuts that out).

It's in the non-criticizing the refs piece on their website if I recall correctly.

The vine posted upthread cuts off so you can't be 100% certain but from what's there it sure looked like the ref completely ignored the player or just didn't see him (and Flacco pointing him out).
edit: upon another watch, it's even tougher to tell. he brings his left hand towards his left hip and takes a half-step back. Can't tell if he's getting ready to make an announcement or simply getting into position for the snap.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Oct 27, 2015

The ref usually signals the player that he's seen the reporting as eligible by repeating the rubbing of the number gesture back to the player.

So if the player did not see the ref respond to his reporting, then it's on the player to make sure the ref understands that he's reporting.

All of this could have been avoided with better coaching. And much less whining.

Remember kids, Flacco's due $18 million next year. Good luck with that.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Oct 27, 2015

soxfan121 said:
Actually, $28M. And $31M in 2017.

Oof, I just saw that his signing bonus and option bonuses are included in that. My bad. Holy shit they are screwed.

PedroKsBambino · Oct 27, 2015

soxfan121 said:
Actually, $28M. And $31M in 2017.

I believe Flacco is due only $18 mil in compensation in 2016. You are likely referring to his 2016 cap hit---which is different than what he is paid 'in cash' during 2016.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000146725/article/joe-flaccos-ravens-contract-includes-52m-guaranteed

Confirming that it is "only" $18 mil cash in 2016 (with a $28.5 mil cap hit, though!): http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2016/

Marciano490 · Oct 27, 2015

It was such the elephant in the room last night during the telecast, with Gruden and Tirico referring to the roster changeover and Flacco's lack of weapons. Well, yeah, why do you think Smith and Boldin are gone?

NortheasternPJ · Oct 27, 2015

soxfan121 said:
Actually, $28M. And $31M in 2017.

Don't forget 24.5 the year after!

wade boggs chicken dinner · Oct 27, 2015

They are 18th in SRS, and before this week they were 13th in DVOA at -0.5%. They've also played five road games, with four of them in the Central and Pacific time zones. They aren't good, but they aren't terrible either, and they're probably better than their record. They're a mediocre team that's had some bad luck to be 1-6.

the Ravens benefited last year from a really easy schedule and that might have led to misunderstanding where their team I at. I say "misunderstanding" because given their cap.issues, they didn't have a lot of options but I think their true talent level has turned out to be lower than what they and many pundits thought.

tims4wins · Oct 27, 2015

True, if they hadn't somewhat lucked into the playoffs again, no one would have thought of them as contenders this year

coremiller · Oct 27, 2015

They finished 4th in DVOA and 8th in SRS last year, which are both adjusted for strength of schedule. Some of the preseason hype that they were a legit championship contender was a bit much, but it was reasonable to expect them to be in the mix for a playoff berth.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Oct 27, 2015

coremiller said:
They finished 4th in DVOA and 8th in SRS last year, which are both adjusted for strength of schedule. Some of the preseason hype that they were a legit championship contender was a bit much, but it was reasonable to expect them to be in the mix for a playoff berth.

They were actually 5th in DVOA, but the fact that they ranked 8th in defensive DVOA doesn't pass the giggle test for me particularly if taking the Ravens defense after they lost Jimmy Smith.

After they played the Falcons, they gave up:

27 points to the Bengals (DVOA offense #18)
43 points to the Steelers (DVOA offense #2)
7 points to the Titans (DVOA offense #29)
27 points to the Saints (DVOA offense #8)
34 points to the Chargers (DVOA offense #10)
13 points to the Dolphins (DVOA offense #7)
12 points to the Jaguars (DVOA offense #31)
25 points to the Texans (DVOA offense #21
10 points to the Browns starting a rookie QB (DVOA offense #24).

Other than the Dolphins, they got torched by any good offense they played. I will grant that this isn't scientific, but there can't be five people outside of football outsiders that think the Ravens were a top 10 defense last year.

coremiller · Oct 27, 2015

wade boggs chicken dinner said:
They were actually 5th in DVOA, but the fact that they ranked 8th in defensive DVOA doesn't pass the giggle test for me particularly if taking the Ravens defense after they lost Jimmy Smith.

After they played the Falcons, they gave up:

27 points to the Bengals (DVOA offense #18)
43 points to the Steelers (DVOA offense #2)
7 points to the Titans (DVOA offense #29)
27 points to the Saints (DVOA offense #8)
34 points to the Chargers (DVOA offense #10)
13 points to the Dolphins (DVOA offense #7)
12 points to the Jaguars (DVOA offense #31)
25 points to the Texans (DVOA offense #21
10 points to the Browns starting a rookie QB (DVOA offense #24).

Other than the Dolphins, they got torched by any good offense they played. I will grant that this isn't scientific, but there can't be five people outside of football outsiders that think the Ravens were a top 10 defense last year.

Well this is silly. You a) cherry-picked the endpoints (which excludes their excellent defensive performances against Top 10 offenses Pittsburgh and Atlanta), and b) then excluded their best defensive performance within your cherry-picked endpoints. Naturally, they don't look as good as a result. DVOA is thankfully more objective. Other objective measures agree with DVOA -- they were 6th in points allowed, 8th in yards allowed, 7th in defensive SRS, 9th in EPA, etc.

dynomite · Oct 27, 2015

tims4wins said:
True, if they hadn't somewhat lucked into the playoffs again, no one would have thought of them as contenders this year

Well, I think what they did once they got into the playoffs was the lasting memory of the Ravens headed into 2015.

Beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh and then going up 14 twice in New England on the eventual Super Bowl champs was really impressive.

Unfortunately for them, those 7 good quarters made a lot of folks forget that they had spent the prior 7 months playing a lot of bad football -- together with their injuries and personnel losses in the offseason, it's not all that surprising that they're struggling.

Still -- I would never have imagined they could go 4-12 this season.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Oct 28, 2015

Well this is silly. You a) cherry-picked the endpoints (which excludes their excellent defensive performances against Top 10 offenses Pittsburgh and Atlanta), and b) then excluded their best defensive performance within your cherry-picked endpoints. Naturally, they don't look as good as a result. DVOA is thankfully more objective. Other objective measures agree with DVOA -- they were 6th in points allowed, 8th in yards allowed, 7th in defensive SRS, 9th in EPA, etc.

So with the caveat that I don't spend almost any time looking into DVOA, I didn't cherry pick the end points - that's when Jimmy Smith went down.

So perhaps the deal is that the Ravens were #1 or #2 in defense before Jimmy Smith went down and were mediocre afterwards, which gave them a season high rating?

Well, in looking it up, that's not the case. The Ravens were 9th after Week 6, and 6th after their week 7 beat-down of the Falcons - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2014/week-7-dvoa-ratings. While the Falcons were top 10 by DVOA in offense at that time (9th), they were also 31st in defense and the Ravens had a 6 minute advantage in time of possession.

I will note that in his Week 6 write-up last year, Schatz openly wondered if DVOA was accurately assessing the Ravens given how bad the NFC South turned out to be (Schatz thought that the NFC South "might be" the best division in the NFL).

Still the point is this - the Ravens by the end of the year were not a top 10 defense. They may have looked the part because they had an easy schedule and had a decent game in PIT, but I think they overvalued their talent during the off-season. Losing their best player and having Jimmy Smith not being where he was before he went down from the Lisfranc injury (in my non-medical opinion, I think he's still feeling the effects of that) has lead them to where they are now.

soxhop411 · Nov 1, 2015

Harbaugh said that Steve Smith tore his Achilles. Done for year.

kenneycb · Nov 1, 2015

Update the thread title!

SeoulSoxFan · Nov 1, 2015

Hate to see that for Smith, but the Ravens.

Obliged.

Ed Hillel · Nov 1, 2015

Anyone have a gif of Justin Tucker's 2-6 dance?

NortheasternPJ · Nov 1, 2015

Ed Hillel said:
Anyone have a gif of Justin Tucker's 2-6 dance?

To be fair he's probably their best player.

semsox · Nov 15, 2015

Delicious ending

wade boggs chicken dinner · Nov 15, 2015

semsox said:
Delicious ending

The worst loss I've ever seen in my life. That was a terrible game on both sides.

SeoulSoxFan · Nov 15, 2015

Thread title update!

kenneycb · Nov 15, 2015

That final play where Dumervil got the penalty was so...Jaguars.

DJnVa · Nov 15, 2015

wade boggs chicken dinner said:
The worst loss I've ever seen in my life. That was a terrible game on both sides.

I appreciate hyperbole, but this is a Red Sox board and most of us were alive in 1986.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Nov 15, 2015

DrewDawg said:
I appreciate hyperbole, but this is a Red Sox board and most of us were alive in 1986.

Sorry, I meant football and I didn't mean the most gut-wrenching, just the, well, worst. I don't even know how to put it. Maybe the worst sequence of plays that turned victory into defeat. Something like that.

GeorgeCostanza · Nov 15, 2015

Jacking one out to the Sunday night updates of this thread is becoming a wonderful weekly tradition.

Who did cry baby Harbaugh try to pin this weeks disaster on?

snowmanny · Nov 15, 2015

GeorgeCostanza · Nov 15, 2015

Thank you.

:jo

nattysez · Nov 16, 2015

Bwahahaha

soxhop411 · Nov 16, 2015

nattysez said:
Bwahahaha

GREAT. Now he will complain to officials more.

dcmissle · Nov 16, 2015

The NFL is correct.

With that said, I was in attendance and one could smell the disaster a mile away. And although deserving has nothing to do with it, the Ravens deserved to lose. The carelessness, lack of discipline and absence of focus have marked their play all year.

If the Ravens played in Boston, they would be getting murdered by the media notwithstanding their injuries. The closeness of all of their losses would be held against them.

The radio media in Baltimore are so forgiving in comparison. Listening to WBAL and the FAN was comparatively like spending a night with Baghdad Bob. "Just not our year ... good night."

Van Everyman · Nov 16, 2015

Did Harbaugh press the NFL to make this statement? Notwithstanding that stupid batted ball non-call, which was an actual misreading of the rule, refs miss penalties all the time and don't usually issue statements apologizing.

PayrodsFirstClutchHit · Nov 16, 2015

The Ravens/Harbaugh complete and utter fail this season keeps getting better by the week. The fact that a call was blown on the final play must make Harbaugh fully explode inside which makes this latest loss so much sweeter.

The Ravens and Harbaugh in particular deserve a double karmic blow for their role as a rat in deflategate and for having the NFL make rule changes based on incessant whining.

Enjoy this season of endless misery. May you and Nantz share a barstool and a good cry.

joe dokes · Nov 16, 2015

Meanwhile in New Jersey, the Patriots rush to the line, then calmly line up correctly and motionless for their clock-stopping spike. It's like an additional layer of bad karma.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Nov 16, 2015

Even with the refs screwing up, all it would have taken for the Ravens to have a magnificent 3-6 record instead of 2-7 would be for Dumervil not to try to twist Bortles' head off via the facemask. But since he was too stupid to avoid doing that, they lost the game.

So it's still their own goddamn fault, and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of whiny assholes.

WayBackVazquez · Nov 18, 2015

Classy as ever.

singaporesoxfan · Nov 19, 2015

Breshad Perriman placed on IR, now has press conference today. Retiring? (Please?)

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/23684/putting-breshad-perriman-on-ir-further-clouds-ravens-receiver-situation-for-next-season

2015 Ravens: Achilles 4, Suggs 0, Karma 7

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