KD wasn’t driving straight to the hoop. He was going east west at that point
2018 NBA Finals
- Thread starter gedman211
- Start date
There was twitter talk that on the Curry drive before the ejection, TT attempted to elbow Curry, and then, on the closeout they misinterpreted his actions--felt he was trying to elbow him again.
I thought it was a block, but whatever. Here's my question--2 NBA referees reviewing it then decided to change the call, knowing how much scrutiny there would be. Why?
If there's some NBA conspiracy, it would be towards a longer series.
The rule doesn't require the player to be square and also is allowed to be moving/sliding to protect himself. His feet were planted prior to Durant taking off. I've got it 70/30 a charge but like I said at best it's 50/50 and you don't reverse a call that isn't clear.
I was rooting for the Cavs. Thought it was a clear block.
It’s not the second foot sliding into place; that’s allowed. It’s that his entire body is still moving sideways — most notably, his shoulder, which as others have noted he was sliding over in an effort to cut off the gap that KD was trying to exploit.
No, he was going North/South at that point. He was heading straight to the basket at the point Lebron slid in, turned, to Durant’s path. Durant had already made his turn to the basket.
If the NBA was pulling strings to affect outcomes, we wouldn’t be watching the Cavs and Warriors contest the Finals for the 4th straight season. People are stupid.
I thought it looked like he tried to elbow Curry and missed on that play. Didn’t make contact with the elbow at all on Livingston.
Think this gets changed to Flagrant 1 and then a T for shoving the ball in Green’s face by the league office.
The charge rule allows for a player to turn his body. You can see both of LeBron's feet in front of Durant prior to the slight slide, which to me makes the call debatable since the defender got to his spot while making the reversal absurd.
Van Gundy and Steve Javie both felt he was in a legal guarding position while Borgia considered that it was a tie. Javie said it was difficult but ultimately felt it was a charge which is how I feel.
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Like Javie said, there was another Cavs player (Jeff Green?) closing in on Durant on this bang-bang play and his foot WAS on the restricted line. It was perfectly reasonable at game speed for the officials to see multiple players feet moving quickly and one of them being on the line.
Not enough talk about Kevin Love and his terrible decision to try and block that Curry layup and missing badly. Let him have that layup and the game is tied with 23.5 seconds left. So dumb. So dumb
Not sure that's the case; I get a lot of super NBA fans who post on message boards and twitter are bored with this matchup (I certainly am), but viewership for this matchup has been high previously (and was high last night). I suspect have LeBron, Durant and Curry in the finals to draw in more casual fans outweighs the fatigue factor among hardcore fans.
I’m not sure that’s a “bigger issue” than getting the call right.
Besides, officials routinely go to video to confirm calls that look fairly obvious in live action. I don’t think any of us were surprised by the decision to review the play. Many of us weren’t aware that so long as they were looking at the video, they could also review the charge/block call.
Whether it was a block or charge can be endlessly debated, but it seems clear that we now know the value of having "The Diff" on the Quicken Arena scoreboard, and perhaps it should be required to be on all scoreboards to prevent further last second brainfarts.
I don't think I saw this post, but here's the official explanation.
http://official.nba.com/making-the-call-may-31-2018/
And, FWIW, the NBA says the issue was sliding left into Durant. As some here said last night.
There's not the NFL or MLB standard about evidence. They simply look and make the correct call and he said "ties are blocking fouls".
http://official.nba.com/making-the-call-may-31-2018/
And, FWIW, the NBA says the issue was sliding left into Durant. As some here said last night.
There's not the NFL or MLB standard about evidence. They simply look and make the correct call and he said "ties are blocking fouls".
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Indeed. I'm so tired of the Lebron hate here, in the media, everywhere. People are watching one of the greatest of all time bringing a mediocre cast over the line and we get a year of some idiot Warriors fan at this site citing his +/- numbers to troll him, the constant "I don't even want to watch him" (you don't want to watch one of the greatest ever, and you're spending time on a basketball board? Seriously?), to the constant whining about him getting calls (as if).
Shut up
I’d consider myself chief among the LeBron haters on SoSH; but that doesn’t mean I’m denying his greatness. LeBrons easily one of the four or so best players of all time and is having just an incredible, awe-inspiring playoff run.
I can also complain about the monotony of his drives to the basket; his polarizing team personality and his constant whining to officials. Both things can be true.
Look, every college and high school program I've worked for and been around does this after the first free throw in the final two minutes of each quarter/half. Maybe it doesn't happen in the NBA to be fair. But, this isn't some eight-year old thing.
EDIT: In fact, a coach in my program just alerted me that Jay Williams made the same point today.
For all the 10s of millions of bucks he makes every year, he needs to answer every time they aks him.
LeBron hero-lying in front of everyone is peak LeBron. All he had to do was say, 'yeah, he told me he thought we were up and I was mad at the time but guys make mistakes and it's over with. We're all good now moving forward as a team on to the next one.' Nope, LeBron always has to pretend to take the high road, even when he's not. He thinks he's supporting his teammate but what he's really doing is signaling support and he's making it worse. We all saw it on the broadcast, you can't spin what we saw.
Lebron has maybe had his best playoff run ever this year which is insane considering this is his 15th year.
If I were Lebron, I would be driving monotonously and bitching to the referees too. Not sure what choice he has.
I suspect that the stories are true that part of the blame for their crap roster is due to his influence in personnel decisions. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that his teammates and coach are subpar. He dragged that team to the finals, and he almost willed that team to victory on the road last night by himself. If you hate on that, I just don't understand.
I'm pulling for Golden State, because I love the way that they play. But we are watching greatness.
I suspect that the stories are true that part of the blame for their crap roster is due to his influence in personnel decisions. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that his teammates and coach are subpar. He dragged that team to the finals, and he almost willed that team to victory on the road last night by himself. If you hate on that, I just don't understand.
I'm pulling for Golden State, because I love the way that they play. But we are watching greatness.
Just saw the JR replay. I'm not a huge basketball fan, but it didn't look to me like he didn't know the score -- you can see him try to turn back to the basket about a second or two after he got the ball, but he had a defender in his face. Seemed like he didn't think he was in position for a putback, then...just had no idea what to do instead..
What's undeniable is that,once Lue sees that JR doesn't take a shot == and wasn't able to pass it back out to LeBron -- he needs to immediately turn to the ref and call the TO. Two seconds is enough time for a reasonable inbound play when you've got the best player in the world.
Either way, neither JR nor Lue seemed prepared for this situation.
What's undeniable is that,once Lue sees that JR doesn't take a shot == and wasn't able to pass it back out to LeBron -- he needs to immediately turn to the ref and call the TO. Two seconds is enough time for a reasonable inbound play when you've got the best player in the world.
Either way, neither JR nor Lue seemed prepared for this situation.
This is wrong. He had an easy put back. He didn't know the score, because if he did, he wouldn't have dribbled to half court, never once trying to find an open man or take a shot.
I've played in high school and college and this has never been S.O.P. following the first FT. After the foul, prior to the first FTA, is committed the coach communicates with captain on how to defend after both FT's are made or one is missed which he conveys with the players on the floor. Without a timeout in hand every second is crucial and so every player knows how to proceed given the scenarios. Never in all my years of playing organized basketball did a coach remind everyone after the first FT what the game score was......this is all done PRIOR to the first attempt.
There was a clip out there of JR literally looking up at the scoreboard prior to one of the FTA's (unsure of which)......I mean at what point do you hold the player accountable? JR knew the score prior to the miss which is why he was so aggressive in hitting the offensive glass. He wasn't retreating to defend with a lead. At some point between him entering the lane and rebounding the ball he lost his mind.......he did this earlier in the year as well when he took a 3-pointer with 15 seconds on the game clock (shot clock off) in a time game, later admitting he thought they were down 2! JR also did this years ago as a Knick in the playoffs. This is not new to JR losing his mind in the heat of battle. It's on him 100%.
I wouldn't say it was an easy put back with Durant and his length right next to Smith prepared to swat the putback into the 3th row.
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JVG was correct in saying they should have a challenge available for other calls down the stretch. The only reason this got reviewed was because of the question about restricted area, then they can make a judgement call on on it. If this call can be overturned, when it wasn't that close whether he was outside the area or not, other calls should be too.
That said, watching Lebron back down Rozier, Brown, Tatum and anybody else under 230lb, does not give me great sympathy for him when he gets short end of charge call.
That said, watching Lebron back down Rozier, Brown, Tatum and anybody else under 230lb, does not give me great sympathy for him when he gets short end of charge call.
Every single person in the arena and every person watching the game knew the score was tied, except for the guy who got the rebound. It's really one of the most boneheaded plays in the history of sports.
The test isn’t how close the player actually was to the restricted zone. The test is whether the refs think he might have been close to the restricted zone. Lots of stuff is happening in full speed NBA basketball.
This was my take on it as well. That moment wasn’t about saving JR. it was all about poor him.
Ratings were a bit down from last year although still decent.
Awful Announcing @awfulannouncing
Despite thrilling finish, NBA Finals Game 1 ratings down from last year, lowest of any Cavs-Warriors Game 1 http://dlvr.it/QVsmD8
http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/despite-thrilling-finish-nba-finals-game-1-ratings-down-from-last-year-lowest-of-any-cavs-warriors-game-1.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Awful Announcing @awfulannouncing
Despite thrilling finish, NBA Finals Game 1 ratings down from last year, lowest of any Cavs-Warriors Game 1 http://dlvr.it/QVsmD8
http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/despite-thrilling-finish-nba-finals-game-1-ratings-down-from-last-year-lowest-of-any-cavs-warriors-game-1.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Lol, seriously? That's some solid mod work, dude. Screw you, too.
LeBron's totally incredible; I've long held that there's a convincing case for him as GOAT. I just thought it was worth noting that after a career in which advanced stats (RPM, RAPM, e.g.) consistently loved him even more than traditional stats and the eye test, this year they took a huge dip, over a full-season sample.
James net on/off per 100 possessions
2104-15 +16.8
2015-16 +16.5
2016-17 +17.0
2017-18 +2.4
That kinda looks like something, no? I mean it could be noise, but I didn't think it was "trolling" just to put the evidence out there, and raise the possibility of mild age-related decline as an open question. IIRC, I noted that when decline happens, it often happens first on the defensive end, so traditional stats alone might not capture it. And I think most close LeBron observers would agree that — whether due to a decline in ability or effort or some combo — his defense has declined considerably from its peak.
Offense is a different story of course ... his improvement on threes and mid-rangers over the last 3-4 years is remarkable; add that to his incredible court vision, passing, handles, size, and ability to get to the rim, and you get the most dominant offensive force I've ever seen, at the peak of his powers.
That said, though ... this is a de facto Game Thread, so it's not surprising that in the heat of battle, salty Celtics fans and/or this idiot Warrior fan might occasionally want to knock him down from his throne, rhetorically. Seems to me like they should be free to do that without getting told to shut up or called idiots by the dopes, but YMMV.
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Which makes me wonder exactly what Lue said to the team before going to the line. Smith said afterward that he was expecting a timeout. Is that what Lue told him he'd do if they rebounded a miss? If so, then Lue is the one who choked, not JR.
We may never know, but it really rubs me the wrong way when the coach throws someone under the bus, and worse, completely contradicts what his own player is saying.
Again, not to hold JR Smith blameless or anything -- my guess is that he simply chickened out at the last moment, or maybe lost track of time. But the whole situation seems fishy to me.
The NBA said that the 3rd official asked about the restricted area because the other defender's feet were in there, creating confusion.
The other 2 officials were watching the contact--they can't see the upper body contact and feet at some time.
On the one hand, you're a touchy and defensive Warriors fan, so you might well understand why your rants are suspect.
On the other hand, I've never seen you post just to get a rise out of people, you clearly believe what you're saying, and you put thought into your posts. I think anyone calling you trolling just doesn't like the content of what you're saying. That's really unfair, and kinda obnoxious.
Drake, if you’re serious.
Pusha-T just dropped a diss track accusing him of having a secret child.
I guess I'm the one bonehead here who had already mentally added the second FT and thought the game was over until I saw the score? Of course, part of that was the sight of JR Smith running out the clock, lol. But I think Legler or one of the ESPN analysts nailed what was going through my head, and likely through JR's: you assume Hill will hit that second FT, so have mentally moved on to just having to kill those last 4.7 seconds. When you get the ball you neglect to shift gears and only the "kill the 4.7 seconds" part remains.
but why would anyone assume a FT is automatic? Anyone who has even halfway seriously watched basketball over the years knows that players miss FTs all the time, and especially in pressure situations. Heck, there entire strategy of fouling late to get back in a game is predicated on the idea that players - even exceptional FT shooters - miss FTs. I just can't believe that a player simply assumed both FTs had already been made while standing in the lane. The far more likely scenario is that he forgot about Curry's +1 and thought the score was tied when Hill hit the first FT. Any way you slice it, it is a mind numbing mistake.
My point is the call was reviewed only because of the restricted area concern, then changed for another reason. They should open up an appeal for calls the officials do not choose to review themselves.
My other point was Lebron got away with several dozen offensive fouls in the Celtics series.
Logically I want a different rule concerning replays.
Emotionally I am laughing a bit at Lebron being frustrated with a block/charge decision.
Yes, I think there should be scope for one challenge for each team during the last two minutes. It means the last two minutes will take 45 minutes, but they already take 30 minutes to play as it stands.
Hah, yeah, my rants on Steph, Draymond, KD, JaVale et al. are definitely suspect — which is why I (mostly!) try to stay out of your way when you want to rag on them, especially in a game thread context.
My rants on LeBron may well be suspect too, though in theory they're no more biased than those of Celtics fans, right?
I think the thing with LeBron is that he's perhaps the only player where it's actually fair to hold his team's performance against him, himself. This makes evaluating him very complicated at this point.
It's also why +/- might sorta matter for him. Like, maybe he's just as great, but the team composition makes for the lower +/-... but if LeBron is also Coach and GM, well, that may be on him too.
I just mean it become hard to separate out LeBron personally from the team to the effect that as much as any player I can think of, the team is an expression of him.
My coaching is now 100% fiba with 3 tos second half. Most summer tournaments restrict TOs to one each in the last 2 minutes.
Cricket and tennis use replays with much more speed than football and baseball. The CFL has replays done at a central location, and are much faster than the NFL. It doesn't have to be so slow.
Tennis can afford cameras along the key lines which the NFL, apparently, cannot.
Tennis must be very lucrative.