Yes, adding him to Hader/Knebel/Jeffress is a great move for a team with SP shortcomings. I love the Brewers aggression.That’s what I meant, yes.
Yes, adding him to Hader/Knebel/Jeffress is a great move for a team with SP shortcomings. I love the Brewers aggression.That’s what I meant, yes.
They're teaching him 1B this spring, so it sounds like he'll have full-time duties while rotating between 2B/1B/LF/RF. Zobrist-ian.What's their plan with him this year? His minor numbers were pretty eye-popping for a MI.
Yes, but it has to be a free market to be a fair exchange of services. Teams can’t say, “Look how much Eloy Jimenez got! We are paying young players instead of old players!” What the White Sox have done is extorted Jimenez to sign a below market contract by exploiting their ability to pay him essentially nothing for 3 years and delay his free agency by a full season. Teams shouldn’t be allowed to use these contracts as a mitigating factor in a collision case or as a fig leaf in labor negotiations, unless they also agree to arbitration after 1 year, and let arbitrators compare offers to free agent contracts much sooner.Better to pay these guys when they are young rather than when they are old.
This is how it should be.
Rotoworld has 43 guaranteed over 6 years, last two years as team options. Seems like a great deal for Chicago? Having 43mil guaranteed as a 22 year old who was at least 3 years from real money doesn’t suck either.Wow, Eloy has yet to play in the bigs:
21m21 minutes ago
BREAKING NEWS: The White Sox are close to an agreement with Eloy Jimenez for an 8-year extension that would pay him between 65-70 US$ Million. With Incentives the contract could get to the 75-80 million Range. Source says deal is pending only a Physical.
They're also betting heavily on him, you know, succeeding. And not getting hurt. And not him just engaging the cruise control because he just got a huge guaranteed payday.Yes, but it has to be a free market to be a fair exchange of services. Teams can’t say, “Look how much Eloy Jimenez got! We are paying young players instead of old players!” What the White Sox have done is extorted Jimenez to sign a below market contract by exploiting their ability to pay him essentially nothing for 3 years and delay his free agency by a full season. Teams shouldn’t be allowed to use these contracts as a mitigating factor in a collision case or as a fig leaf in labor negotiations, unless they also agree to arbitration after 1 year, and let arbitrators compare offers to free agent contracts much sooner.
That would also have to come with enhanced revenue sharing and continued binding luxury tax thresholds, or it would really hurt competitive balance. But competitive balance is an ownership problem first and a players problem second.
Is it a compromise when a 260 pound wrestler beats a 160 pound wrestler, but agrees not to choke him to death? That’s how lopsided the power structure is in a negotiation between a rookie and the team management.They're also betting heavily on him, you know, succeeding. And not getting hurt. And not him just engaging the cruise control because he just got a huge guaranteed payday.
You call it extortion, reasonable people call it a compromise.
Right, because it's not as if anything could potentially happen to a baseball player out of nowhere that could derail their entire career. Never seen that one play out before, the young guys with unlimited talent always make it to that first payday.Is it a compromise when a 260 pound wrestler beats a 160 pound wrestler, but agrees not to choke him to death? That’s how lopsided the power structure is in a negotiation between a rookie and the team management.
You’re right that the team is betting on success. They have to do that when they negotiate with 26 year old international free agents like Rusney Castillo too. But that is a negotiation between equals.
The crux of the issue is, if Eloy Jimenez were a free agent, as he would have been in any other industry that doesn’t benefit from a government sanctioned monopsony and hampered by a union that sold off his rights as a human being looking for a first job, what would the contract he got look like? If you want to argue it would not be significantly larger, then I don’t think there’s a point in continuing the conversation.Right, because it's not as if anything could potentially happen to a baseball player out of nowhere that could derail their entire career. Never seen that one play out before, the young guys with unlimited talent always make it to that first payday.
Again, you think of it as a power play, reasonable people see it as a compromise because Jimenez has yet to earn any leverage whatsoever.
You're so close...Again, you think of it as a power play, reasonable people see it as a compromise because Jimenez has yet to earn any leverage whatsoever.
Adam McCalvy @AdamMcCalvy 13m13 minutes agoYes, adding him to Hader/Knebel/Jeffress is a great move for a team with SP shortcomings. I love the Brewers aggression.
This one proves P91's point even more than Eloy's deal did. Snell knew he was going to get completely screwed by the Rays for years -- he's taking less than he could get on the open market because his other choice was praying that he stayed healthy until free agency and that the arbitrator found for him every year.extension season continues.
Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 13m13 minutes ago
BREAKING: Reigning AL Cy Young winner Blake Snell and the Tampa Bay Rays are in agreement on a five-year, $50 million contract extension, league sources tell ESPN. The deal runs through Snell's age-30 season and does not include any options.
I understand your point, and I'm certainly not going to argue that the current system is perfect, but let's look at it this way- if Eloy was a FA right now what would he get?You're so close...
Why does he not have that leverage?
This is soooo good. The Rays know the CBA is going to change soon and shift more money to currently cost-controlled players, they are loaded with young talent and as of today their 2019 payroll is around $50m. I expect that Snell/Lowe won't be the end of it. They are going to lock in a core group of young talent several years out beyond the next CBA.extension season continues.
Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 13m13 minutes ago
BREAKING: Reigning AL Cy Young winner Blake Snell and the Tampa Bay Rays are in agreement on a five-year, $50 million contract extension, league sources tell ESPN. The deal runs through Snell's age-30 season and does not include any options.
Also a fair point, and that's an interesting discussion I think. I was just pointing out what the poster was missing about Plymp's point.I understand your point, and I'm certainly not going to argue that the current system is perfect, but let's look at it this way- if Eloy was a FA right now what would he get?
Yes, definitely. I think that Snell is a better example of the problem. But I don't think a guy who has yet to play in the majors getting $50m should be viewed as extortion. However the system certainly has its flaws.Also a fair point, and that's an interesting discussion I think. I was just pointing out what the poster was missing about Plymp's point.
5/110 seems light."#STLCards close on an extension with 1B Paul Goldschmidt, sources tell The Athletic. Deal will be for at least five years and at least $110M."
For the same reason nobody in any workforce with zero experience does.You're so close...
Why does he not have that leverage?
Seems like a good deal for the Cards. Not a steal but a good deal.Yeah, 5/130 makes more sense.
Nope.For the same reason nobody in any workforce with zero experience does.
But hey, let's keep on with the indentured servitude talk.
Not to get too far down this rabbit hole, but to say he has zero experience is really stretching reality. He actually has 5 years of experience during which he steadily progressed through more and more high level "jobs".For the same reason nobody in any workforce with zero experience does.
But hey, let's keep on with the indentured servitude talk.
Yeah, he's worth some amount of money in an open market, he and the team just agreed on it.Not to get too far down this rabbit hole, but to say he has zero experience is really stretching reality. He actually has 5 years of experience during which he steadily progressed through more and more high level "jobs".
Based on the results of those 5 years he is worth some amount of money in an open market (I don't know how much) and the question is whether that amount is greater than what he just signed in this decidedly closed market.
What did other teams offer him? Was it more or less?Yeah, he's worth some amount of money in an open market, he and the team just agreed on it.
Which he was not forced in any way to do, the point being overlooked entirely here.
I do agree the system sucks (for guys that aren't going to ever get that big contract and guys who are on the back nine,) but not in this specific circumstance. Dude got life changing guaranteed money and the team is making a hard gamble. Instead of him having to bet on himself, the team bet on him. It's fair.
"Jesus Christ, it's like a whole army of strawmen", as someone on here once said.What did other teams offer him? Was it more or less?
If you graduate with a degree in computer science, is there a draft where Apple wins the right to pay you whatever they want for at least the next 7 and perhaps to as many as 15 years of your life (6 years to minor league FA, but then 3 option years if they put you on the 40 man, and then 6 more years of major league service time before FA), and Google and Amazon can’t even discuss future employment with you until those 7 to 15 years is up, let alone make an offer to you and have you leave right now.
Indentured servitude is exactly what it is. As the saying goes, whether you charge $50 or $5000 for sex, you’re still a prostitute. The analogy holds here.
Which strawman are we discussing? Because you claimed his contract was signed in a free market, but a free market - by definition - is one where multiple parties are free to make offers. Plympton's question regarding other teams offers is not a strawman, but a reminder that this is not a free market."Jesus Christ, it's like a whole army of strawmen", as someone on here once said.
That isn't actually what I said, that's just how you assumed it. I said that the two parties, in a negotiation, sat down and agreed upon what his value is. Given that nobody forced Jimenez to do so in any manner (he absolutely would've been free to tell them to go screw and play for free agency and the BIG payday if he wanted,) hence the indentured servitude take is fucking idiotic.Which strawman are we discussing? Because you claimed his contract was signed in a free market, but a free market - by definition - is one where multiple parties are free to make offers. Plympton's question regarding other teams offers is not a strawman, but a reminder that this is not a free market.
Again, I'm not sure where this contract falls in the realm of fairness, especially given the risk the team is buying into, but the contract (and all non free agent contracts) was absolutely not signed in a free market.
That's a pretty questionable move, IMO.Ian Happ lost a major league job due to spring training. Somewhat of a surprise.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/cubs-option-ian-happ.html
Post-ASB last season he batted .196 with an OPS of .653. This horrible ST performance was a continuation, not an aberration, and he's striking out a ton. This is all about Happ, not about Bote or Field.That's a pretty questionable move, IMO.
You really want to alienate your top prospect, who approached a 1.000 OPS in AAA, so you don't have to option David Bote or Danny Field?