Crazy stuff! Pile on though. All in Ones, all the rage. Nope, going out the door.
The guy has had months to get ready and this is basketball, not the NFL. He should be able to play some minutes right now and then scale it up in the coming weeks with the added conditioning.
Love the certitude. Wish I could predict the future with such confidence but recent NBA history is not aligned with you here. If I had to bet, Griffin's successor will be tasked with resolving this situation either via trading him away or placating him by acquiring players with whom he wants to hoop. The Governors are mostly business people who understand that as soon as a player is "unhappy" they are immediately discounted. Playing hardball costs both sides but teams don't seem to behave as if they have the leverage some people ascribe to them.
It's wise to be humble when divining the future, but I tend to agree that the league will not treat Zion in the same fashion as a Harden, Westbrook, Paul George etc. Potential stars still on their rookie deals forcing their way out of town is an existential threat to the league. A majority of the league's markets depend on the draft and restricted free agency to acquire and retain high end talent.
How many people here would turn down a a Horford plus a million picks trade for Zion?
Cam Reddish asked for a trade from Atlanta and got one, but it was because he wanted more playing time and he didn't sit out or make his demand public in the meantime. Not sure if he's in the "his team wanted to keep him" bucket or not. Worked out pretty bad for his since his minutes got slashed in New York.
He only has a year left. He doesn't really have to demand a trade. Zion will be moved or walk for nothing.
I agree the rookie deal makes it more murky but again, if you look at this purely in economic terms it makes it simpler. The Pelicans have an asset that is now discounted - we can debate how much but the Zion they control is not the Zion that entered this season. Furthermore its a depreciating asset in terms of team control. Absent repairing their relationship with these players, I think they are deciding to cut their losses and move on quickly. From where I sit, it feels like these situations tend to impact teams from the locker-room to roster building so it always feels like moving on ASAP is the best course for both sides.
Convenient timing for both Ben and the Nets to avoid that circus. Eventually he’ll have to face it but no need to do so while you’re just getting your feet wet with your exhibition season taking place while others are in full swing.
Existential threat? Please explain? Or you mean its a threat to parity?
Zion has a ton of leverage…..he isn’t under contract long term to the Pelicans and is a FA in 16 months. He doesn’t have to publicly demand a trade only make it known that he won’t be re-signing and the Pelicans won’t have a choice but to get some return.
Yeah, I don't get the argument otherwise. He doesn't even have to make demands, really. Just play out the year.
He's a restricted FA in 16 months. He does not get to choose where to sign, Pels can match any deal.
Short version of explanation.
With Zion’s injury history it may be best that he DOES sit out until he signs a max somewhere even if the Pelicans do match it.
Others thought Simmons had negative value on his contract/no value around the league.
Yeah, I get that fans want to have hope and its better for there to be parity but it isn't an existential issue.
There were definitely some posters that thought Morey absolutely had to trade Simmons during the offseason or early in the regular season, no matter the return. They were wrong. No matter what people think of Harden, this wasn't Kareem for Junior Bridgeman.
The US sports business is built on every team in the league having a shot at the league's best players. That includes the NBA.
He doesn’t have to play a year on the QO. He can go out and get a 1+1 contract that NO would have to match. In other words, he can get paid for a year at the max and then leave. He leaves the higher tier max money he could get from NO on the table, but the idea that he would be stuck with either the QO or a long term deal NO could match is one born from a lack of creativity. Nothing requires Zion to sign for four years instead of 1 and he’s good enough that a team hunting for him would probably be willing to make the offer (not many players have a level of talent where that is true).
nope.
Last season's champion was the Milwaukee Bucks. The Spurs were a dynasty for 15+ years. Cleveland won a championship. Toronto won a championship. Miami - somehow a "small market team" in baseball - won several championships in the NBA. GSW - viewed as a "small market team" for many years - has been a monster team since 2014. I put small market in quotes because the definition seems to change with the wind - Jerry Reinsdorf would have you believe Chicago is a small market.
My point is not that the current system makes it impossible for non-destination markets to win a title. They do operate at a competitive disadvantage. For a non-destination market unrestricted free agency is not a reliable path to acquiring top tier tier free agents. Outside of Lebron returning home, when was the last time a marquee unrestricted free agent (i.e. top 10 player in the league/best guy on a championship team caliber player) left his incumbent team to sign with a non-destination market? However, they can still build contenders - thanks to the combined impact of the draft, the rookie scale and restricted free agency.
Zion won’t be walking for nothing because there’s a zero percent chance that he plays a season on a QO contract. Given his conditioning issues that’s a gamble waaaaay too rich for his blood. If he leaves it will be the same way that Lonzo did, via sign & trade. How much will be coming the other way will be determined by what other teams feel Williamson’s long term viability is.
My personal hope is that Philly charges up the standings post-Harden and meet Brooklyn in the first round. That promises me the most entertainment.
It's just as likely the other way, I think. Philly is currently the 3 seed, Brooklyn is just 2.5 games out of 6th (just like Philly is 2.5 games out of 1st, in order to play the currently 8 seed Brooklyn). Really good shot either way, it's amazing how bunched up the east is.
The flawed assumption here is that young draftees will start doing this all the time. The current evidence is that if the organization is moderately well-run (even if not), they stick it out through the first 8 years, due to some combination of strong financial incentives and the loyalty that being in a franchise creates.
The bolded is true depending on what team you follow... I recall a few years back when Borussia Dortmund was playing Bayern and many of Borussia's best players were imminently going to be sold to play for Bayern.. leaving Borussia with money, but also the need to rebuild. If you don't have young, cheap talent in either the NBA or soccer (if you don't have a ton of money especially).. you're going to fail.
I’m a lot less bullish on three very thin-skinned/weird personalities being able to survive adversity. Embiid and Harden? I can see them thriving. Simmons not catching Kyrie’s mental illness? Not sure I can see that.
The range of outcomes for both teams seems huge, anything from NBA Championship to complete catastrophe. Makes for good fun for fans from afar.
But free agency isn't a reliable path for anyone to build a contender. It hasn't worked out for LAC or the Nets because free agents are typically older and overpriced. Drafting is always the most consistent and proven way of building a team that contends for a longer window.
This is so, so, so rare. Zion is a very unique case because he has a lot of endorsement money, but that's not the case for players even at the Giannis/Jokic level. They can't afford to sit out seasons or turn down the life-changing security of a max contract.
Is this game funnier if hosted in Brooklyn, so Kyrie can't play, or hosted in Philly, so Simmons won't play?
Brooklyn, and the Mayor lifts the ban, then Kyrie and Harden trade bricks for the whole 4th quarter while KD and Embiid get more and more incensed
Too bad. It would have been great theater to play in Philly. How tough is Ben when the fans start booing? We all want to know. It’s not just Philly fans. Most fans of playoff teams hosting the Nets will let Ben have it, especially at the free throw line.
Why aren't Ja Morant, Anthony Edwards, Lamelo, Cade Cunningham, etc. all making similar noises from their small markets?
A disgrace? To a game? I'd like to hear the reasoning behind such emphatic language.
Tellum was able to manipulate multiple teams selections in the Kobe draft so that Kobe could end up in LA. These types of things have gone on since agents became a thing. John Elway?
Just because there are players who haven't wanted to bail on their teams yet does not mean that this isn't an issue. It happening only once should be a significant case for alarm. If there is only about a 10% chance that a cornerstone player is bailing on a team still on their rookie contract, that has to be considered a major problem for the NBA. Bad teams are sold on the hope of a brighter tomorrow, the more doubt about that brighter tomorrow taking place that seeps in, the harder it will be to drive local fan interest and help drive these teams forward, which is necessary because by their nature, these teams are already in pretty bad positions, which is how they got the top young player in the first place.
I don’t see this at all. The league has stars in small markets everywhere who openly love their city. Fox in Sacramento, Curry at Golden St, Morant in Memphis, etc. There have always been stars wanting out of where they play for a number of reasons. If anything, in todays worlds a market size has LESS impact than it did two decades ago. It used to be get to a big market to get endorsements, make more money, etc……now players are wanting to leave where they are, as has always been the case, but it isn’t about the money since they already are flush. Simmons didn’t leave Philly bc it’s a small market or bc of money. Harden didn’t want out of Brooklyn for those reasons. LeBron soon in LA……it isn’t a small market issue just look at the recent list champions.
But why isn't this a problem for well-run teams? This discussion has been framed as "small markets" or "non-destination" teams are at a disadvantage, yet there are several small markets thriving. Looking at the standings, I don't see the correlation between big market/destination and winning. The real cause for alarm should be that Pelicans ownership was so asleep at the wheel for years that they had their president of Saints football operations also running the basketball team. Or that Sacramento is owned by a crazy person. These teams suck not because stars are asking out, but because the situations are so poisonous from top down that winning and attracting talent are impossible goals. Again - market size/location has nothing to do with it, just look at the Knicks.
Jon Barry refused to play with the C's after being drafted. C's had to trade him for Alaa Abdelnaby.
