2022-2023 General Celtics thread

InstaFace

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Okay, but getting #60 in any given draft is more or less equal in value to a literal bag of balls. With apologies to my man Isaiah Thomas. Or is he saying that the draft picks were just saving face, and the real value was in doing right by MM? Because that's also my understanding of the Derrick White trade - Pop doing right by White, and taking less than full value to do so.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Okay, but getting #60 in any given draft is more or less equal in value to a literal bag of balls. With apologies to my man Isaiah Thomas. Or is he saying that the draft picks were just saving face, and the real value was in doing right by MM? Because that's also my understanding of the Derrick White trade - Pop doing right by White, and taking less than full value to do so.
I’d say more than likely it was the result of an agents trade request and OKC was more than happy to oblige as Muscala wasn’t a part of their future plans.
 

mcpickl

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Okay, but getting #60 in any given draft is more or less equal in value to a literal bag of balls. With apologies to my man Isaiah Thomas. Or is he saying that the draft picks were just saving face, and the real value was in doing right by MM? Because that's also my understanding of the Derrick White trade - Pop doing right by White, and taking less than full value to do so.
The second round pick OKC got in this trade this year won't be the Celtics pick, that was traded long ago.

It will probably be from Dallas or Miami.

Still not a great haul for Muscala, but you shouldn't be getting a haul for a guy at his level.
 

Fishy1

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I think they also are fine not making the playoffs/play-in.
FWIW, I think they'll make the playoffs. They have a top ten NTRG, a superstar guard, and a nice set of up and comers who all have room to improve. They significantly underperformed their expected W-L so far. I expect them to have a big second-half. They're above average defensively and offensively and they play hard. Even without Muscala, they'll be very competitive.

61464
 

HomeRunBaker

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FWIW, I think they'll make the playoffs. They have a top ten NTRG, a superstar guard, and a nice set of up and comers who all have room to improve. They significantly underperformed their expected W-L so far. I expect them to have a big second-half. They're above average defensively and offensively and they play hard. Even without Muscala, they'll be very competitive.

View attachment 61464
I did chuckle at “even without Muscala” which may have never been said about him during his NBA career. The Thunder acquired Saric from the Suns and he’ll slide into his role fine. This really does smell like a player/agent request to me.
 

Humphrey

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Quite an ascension for Daigneault from team manager at UConn to assistant at Holy Cross to assistant at Florida to the G League to the NBA. A Leominster Blue Devil.
 

Fishy1

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I did chuckle at “even without Muscala” which may have never been said about him during his NBA career. The Thunder acquired Saric from the Suns and he’ll slide into his role fine. This really does smell like a player/agent request to me.
Yeah, kind of a silly opening clause to that sentence... but you know what I mean!
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Given the development of some of OKCs young pieces its likely that both Muscala/his agent and the team saw his minutes diminishing going forward.

And while the Thunder probably liked his production especially at his salary, Muscala simply wasn't that important a piece this season or beyond.

As a side note, the Thunder may be one of the most fun young teams out there given SGA and their aforementioned grinding style.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I did chuckle at “even without Muscala” which may have never been said about him during his NBA career. The Thunder acquired Saric from the Suns and he’ll slide into his role fine. This really does smell like a player/agent request to me.
A lot of things have recently been said about him for the first time. Like "Technical foul, taunting."
 

benhogan

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Yeah, kind of a silly opening clause to that sentence... but you know what I mean!
yea, it read unintentionally funny

in a vacuum Mike is a yawn, but he is a reasonable, complementary player.

When you start with Tatum and Brown, that's kind of what you need to fill out the end of the roster now.

It's also something to get used to since we are all hoping Brad spends $120MM+/yr to have the JAYs for their peak seasons.
 

Fishy1

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yea, it read unintentionally funny

in a vacuum Mike is a yawn, but he is a reasonable, complementary player.

When you start with Tatum and Brown, that's kind of what you need to fill out the end of the roster now.

It's also something to get used to since we are all hoping Brad spends $120MM+/yr to have the JAYs for their peak seasons.
Yeah, I mean thinking about the guys the Celtics have tried out at this stretch position the last seven or eight years -- Jerebko, Olynyk, Theis, Kornet-- all of who had strengths and flaws -- I like Muscala as much as any of them.

61471

The defense is nice, but the Celtics already have a better option in that regard in Kornet as a back-up. The biggest thing is he gets his shot off way more (trying to avoid any more unintentional comedy and failing...) than anyone else in that group. In fact, his per-36 3PA the last three years, which have been around 9 to 10 (!!) would lead this Celtics team. That's a huge boon to our offense, which already was such a juggernaut... so maybe the Thunder might not survive without him... ;)
61470
 

DGreenwood

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Yeah, I mean thinking about the guys the Celtics have tried out at this stretch position the last seven or eight years -- Jerebko, Olynyk, Theis, Kornet-- all of who had strengths and flaws -- I like Muscala as much as any of them.

View attachment 61471

The defense is nice, but the Celtics already have a better option in that regard in Kornet as a back-up. The biggest thing is he gets his shot off way more (trying to avoid any more unintentional comedy and failing...) than anyone else in that group. In fact, his per-36 3PA the last three years, which have been around 9 to 10 (!!) would lead this Celtics team. That's a huge boon to our offense, which already was such a juggernaut... so maybe the Thunder might not survive without him... ;)
View attachment 61470
It caught me by surprise that Theis was pretty much the worst of the bunch.
 

Fishy1

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It caught me by surprise that Theis was pretty much the worst of the bunch.
Classic case of a guy who does a bunch of things very averagely. He can roll to the basket, a little. He can shoot threes, a little. He can guard out on the perimeter, a little. He can protect the rim a little. He can follow the rules of verticality, a little. He can avoid fouling out, a little.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, I mean thinking about the guys the Celtics have tried out at this stretch position the last seven or eight years -- Jerebko, Olynyk, Theis, Kornet-- all of who had strengths and flaws -- I like Muscala as much as any of them.

View attachment 61471

The defense is nice, but the Celtics already have a better option in that regard in Kornet as a back-up. The biggest thing is he gets his shot off way more (trying to avoid any more unintentional comedy and failing...) than anyone else in that group. In fact, his per-36 3PA the last three years, which have been around 9 to 10 (!!) would lead this Celtics team. That's a huge boon to our offense, which already was such a juggernaut... so maybe the Thunder might not survive without him... ;)
View attachment 61470
Muscala has really figured out his short-minute, bench role. He'll light up bench 5s from the perimeter (like he has the last 2.5 seasons)

Classic case of a guy who does a bunch of things very averagely. He can roll to the basket, a little. He can shoot threes, a little. He can guard out on the perimeter, a little. He can protect the rim a little. He can follow the rules of verticality, a little. He can avoid fouling out, a little.
Theis was at his best when he became a Gortat/Snake Screen setter for Tatum.

DT was an upgrade over Kanter last year & Muscala is an upgrade over Theis for the end of this season.
More stellar Brad/Zarren work
 

lovegtm

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Crazy that they have only played 29 minutes together this year
This is why I think Mazzulla is getting very short-changed by the "he just inherited a team that had learned its identity under Ime" narrative.

He's already had to reinvent the team a couple times just this season, and done it well so far.
 

Jimbodandy

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This is why I think Mazzulla is getting very short-changed by the "he just inherited a team that had learned its identity under Ime" narrative.

He's already had to reinvent the team a couple times just this season, and done it well so far.
Ime helped them figure their shit out in a lot of ways, but Joe taught them offense and leveled up their confidence in a huge way.
 

benhogan

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Joe wants more 3s...

https://theathletic.com/4237157/2023/02/22/celtics-offense-joe-mazzulla/

Mazzulla was not advocating for Boston players to fling up nonsense from behind the arc. He wanted them to return to the habits that helped the team score at a historically high level early in the season. He believed the Celtics were “not fighting for our spacing.”

“When we do get to our spacing early in the shot clock and the first action doesn’t work, we don’t fight for our spacing in the last 12 seconds of the shot clock,” said Mazzulla at the time. “And then, so, when you’re not spaced in the last 12 seconds, defenses are naturally better and it’s less likely to find the two-on-one and you don’t get the shot that you want. And then, we’re turning the ball over, which is allowing teams to get out and transition. And so, it’s a combination of spacing, early offense, late offense. And then, it’s a combination (of that) and making sure we make the right read when we have the ball.”

Whatever message Mazzulla delivered at practice that day must have hit its mark. Over the final eight games before the All-Star break, Boston’s 3-point flames raged again. The Celtics have fired 45.6 3-point attempts per game since the start of February, by far the most in the NBA, while leading the league in 3-point percentage (42.5) during that stretch. Making 19.4 3-pointers per game throughout February, they are on pace for one of the most prolific 3-point shooting months ever. Only two teams have ever drilled more 3-pointers per game in a single month, and both did so in truncated spans. The Rockets (22.2 per game) did so in April 2019 while playing just five games during the final month of the regular season. The Mavericks (21 per game) caught fire in July 2020 while playing just a single game after the league restarted in the NBA bubble. Among sample sizes larger than five games in a month, the Warriors tickled the nets like no other team in NBA history with 17.9 made 3-pointers per game in January of this season.

The Celtics are on pace to beat that mark. Just like Mazzulla wanted, they are launching more 3-pointers again.

“I think two things,” Mazzulla said after beating the Pistons in the final game before the All-Star break. “I think one, the confidence to not pass (up) open shots is important. … I think our possessions in the first six to eight seconds of the shot clock, we’ve gotten to our spacing, and we’ve gotten the first advantage or the first crossmatch in the first eight seconds. And so, when you do that, you’re able to generate a two-on-one, which usually is either a 3 or a layup. And so, we’ve made a recommitment to those first six to eight seconds, which I think has opened up a lot of opportunity for us.”

Over this eight-game stretch, 48.5 percent of Boston’s field goal attempts have come from behind the arc. That’s not the type of shot distribution to please fans who yearn for the good ol’ days, but the Celtics thrive on an excess of 3-point attempts. They rank 25th in free throw attempt rate, 26th in points in the paint per 100 possessions and 26th in percentage of shots at the rim. Though Robert Williams’ presence typically transforms his team into a gobbler of offensive rebounds, the Celtics live on jump shots.

They have built a roster to do so. Malcolm Brogdon leads the NBA in 3-point shooting percentage. Three teammates (Al Horford, Sam Hauser and Grant Williams) also rank in the top-25. Derrick White is on pace to shoot a career-high 38.5 percent from behind the arc. At the trade deadline, the Celtics further bolstered their shooting by landing 6-foot-10 big man Mike Muscala. Without exaggeration, he is one of the most willing 3-point shooters ever at his size. In the Basketball-Reference database, players classified as centers (including forward-centers and center-forwards) have posted 22 seasons with at least eight 3-point attempts per 36 minutes. Muscala is the only player with four of those. The Celtics acquired him to hoist long balls and accentuate those around him. The two go hand in hand.

“He shoots the ball aggressively,” said Grant Williams.

That’s what the Celtics want. Not just from Muscala, but from almost everyone on their roster. Mazzulla believes in the math of basketball. He has preached his love of the 3-point shot throughout the season. When recently asked what Boston needed to do to avoid settling for jump shots against Memphis shot blocker Jaren Jackson Jr., Mazzulla replied with a question of his own.

“Do we want to avoid settling for jump shots?” Mazzulla said.

The NBA has changed. Teams fire up 3-pointers more often than ever. Comparing current teams to teams from past eras would be foolish. Even when judged against their peers, the Celtics have been on a heater lately. They have drilled at least 20 3-pointers in four of their eight February games so far. Only six other teams have done so at least four times all season. For the full season, the Celtics rank 1st in 3-point attempts per 100 possessions, second in 3-point makes per 100 possessions and seventh in 3-point percentage. They dipped in all those categories throughout January but have snapped back into form of late despite a number of injuries. Smart, one of the team’s most important creators, missed 11 straight games before returning to help Boston beat Detroit in the final game before the All-Star break.

“While he was out, Derrick and Malcolm made it a recommitment to the first eight seconds of the shot clock,” Mazzulla said. “And (in his return) Smart joined in on that, and he did a great job finding that crossmatch early, and finding that advantage early.”
 

InstaFace

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chilidawg

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Joe wants more 3s...

https://theathletic.com/4237157/2023/02/22/celtics-offense-joe-mazzulla/

Mazzulla was not advocating for Boston players to fling up nonsense from behind the arc. He wanted them to return to the habits that helped the team score at a historically high level early in the season. He believed the Celtics were “not fighting for our spacing.”

“When we do get to our spacing early in the shot clock and the first action doesn’t work, we don’t fight for our spacing in the last 12 seconds of the shot clock,” said Mazzulla at the time. “And then, so, when you’re not spaced in the last 12 seconds, defenses are naturally better and it’s less likely to find the two-on-one and you don’t get the shot that you want. And then, we’re turning the ball over, which is allowing teams to get out and transition. And so, it’s a combination of spacing, early offense, late offense. And then, it’s a combination (of that) and making sure we make the right read when we have the ball.”

Whatever message Mazzulla delivered at practice that day must have hit its mark. Over the final eight games before the All-Star break, Boston’s 3-point flames raged again. The Celtics have fired 45.6 3-point attempts per game since the start of February, by far the most in the NBA, while leading the league in 3-point percentage (42.5) during that stretch. Making 19.4 3-pointers per game throughout February, they are on pace for one of the most prolific 3-point shooting months ever. Only two teams have ever drilled more 3-pointers per game in a single month, and both did so in truncated spans. The Rockets (22.2 per game) did so in April 2019 while playing just five games during the final month of the regular season. The Mavericks (21 per game) caught fire in July 2020 while playing just a single game after the league restarted in the NBA bubble. Among sample sizes larger than five games in a month, the Warriors tickled the nets like no other team in NBA history with 17.9 made 3-pointers per game in January of this season.

The Celtics are on pace to beat that mark. Just like Mazzulla wanted, they are launching more 3-pointers again.

“I think two things,” Mazzulla said after beating the Pistons in the final game before the All-Star break. “I think one, the confidence to not pass (up) open shots is important. … I think our possessions in the first six to eight seconds of the shot clock, we’ve gotten to our spacing, and we’ve gotten the first advantage or the first crossmatch in the first eight seconds. And so, when you do that, you’re able to generate a two-on-one, which usually is either a 3 or a layup. And so, we’ve made a recommitment to those first six to eight seconds, which I think has opened up a lot of opportunity for us.”

Over this eight-game stretch, 48.5 percent of Boston’s field goal attempts have come from behind the arc. That’s not the type of shot distribution to please fans who yearn for the good ol’ days, but the Celtics thrive on an excess of 3-point attempts. They rank 25th in free throw attempt rate, 26th in points in the paint per 100 possessions and 26th in percentage of shots at the rim. Though Robert Williams’ presence typically transforms his team into a gobbler of offensive rebounds, the Celtics live on jump shots.

They have built a roster to do so. Malcolm Brogdon leads the NBA in 3-point shooting percentage. Three teammates (Al Horford, Sam Hauser and Grant Williams) also rank in the top-25. Derrick White is on pace to shoot a career-high 38.5 percent from behind the arc. At the trade deadline, the Celtics further bolstered their shooting by landing 6-foot-10 big man Mike Muscala. Without exaggeration, he is one of the most willing 3-point shooters ever at his size. In the Basketball-Reference database, players classified as centers (including forward-centers and center-forwards) have posted 22 seasons with at least eight 3-point attempts per 36 minutes. Muscala is the only player with four of those. The Celtics acquired him to hoist long balls and accentuate those around him. The two go hand in hand.

“He shoots the ball aggressively,” said Grant Williams.

That’s what the Celtics want. Not just from Muscala, but from almost everyone on their roster. Mazzulla believes in the math of basketball. He has preached his love of the 3-point shot throughout the season. When recently asked what Boston needed to do to avoid settling for jump shots against Memphis shot blocker Jaren Jackson Jr., Mazzulla replied with a question of his own.

“Do we want to avoid settling for jump shots?” Mazzulla said.

The NBA has changed. Teams fire up 3-pointers more often than ever. Comparing current teams to teams from past eras would be foolish. Even when judged against their peers, the Celtics have been on a heater lately. They have drilled at least 20 3-pointers in four of their eight February games so far. Only six other teams have done so at least four times all season. For the full season, the Celtics rank 1st in 3-point attempts per 100 possessions, second in 3-point makes per 100 possessions and seventh in 3-point percentage. They dipped in all those categories throughout January but have snapped back into form of late despite a number of injuries. Smart, one of the team’s most important creators, missed 11 straight games before returning to help Boston beat Detroit in the final game before the All-Star break.

“While he was out, Derrick and Malcolm made it a recommitment to the first eight seconds of the shot clock,” Mazzulla said. “And (in his return) Smart joined in on that, and he did a great job finding that crossmatch early, and finding that advantage early.”
Interesting that that whole discussion on the offense doesn't mention either Tatum or Brown.
 

benhogan

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Interesting that that whole discussion on the offense doesn't mention either Tatum or Brown.
The Celtics' two worst high-volume 3pt shooters were missing for some of Feb

Marcus Smart has never been a marksman from deep. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown have uncharacteristically poor percentages from behind the 3-point arc this season. Those three have still helped to drive Boston’s shot-happy attack. Smart organizes much of the offense. Tatum and Brown draw much of the defense’s attention.

“I think this is probably the worst I’ve shot the ball from the 3-point line in my whole career coming in from a rookie,” Brown said before a facial fracture forced him to miss the final four games before the break. “I just think the responsibility, the role is a little different. I’m the guy that’s driving to the paint and kind of creating those opportunities for everybody else. We’ve got a team that shoots a lot of 3s, so I’m kind of settled in on getting to the basket more this year. That kind of has thrown a little of my dexterity off on my 3-point shooting, but I’m still capable.”
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting that that whole discussion on the offense doesn't mention either Tatum or Brown.
Interesting article, thanks for posting. Because of the math, I suspect that teams making 20 3Ps at a high percentage win most games even in the playoffs. However, it seems to me that it would tough to keep that up through four playoff series but what do I know (other than that we'll have more than one game thread where everyone is futilely imploring the Cs to stop shooting so many 3Ps)?

JMazz is really taking the "live or die by the 3P" to an entire new level, isn't he? I hope the Cs can bomb their way to a championship.
 

ManicCompression

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JMazz is really taking the "live or die by the 3P" to an entire new level, isn't he? I hope the Cs can bomb their way to a championship.
It does widen our variance quite a bit. I'm a bit worried about going into a deciding playoff game and having a poor shooting performance like the 2017 Rockets vs. Warriors. Hopefully the Cs have enough in their bag to score even when that part of the offense is disappointing.
 

InstaFace

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terrible locker room guy + Luke/Blake have 4/5th string Center sorted
But we could get him for the minimum, and if we did, he's probably the #2 center. Better defender than any other backup big guy. Would take Kornet's minutes. Muscala is probably more in a Horford role, trying to pull a big outside the paint with his outside shooting threat, moreso than having a bunch of rim-protecting responsibility.

Pro your position: this Reddit thread, discussing how he chases blocks, leaves himself out of position defensively as a result, and doesn't give a shit if it isn't a block opportunity. And complains on instagram about not being allowed to shoot.

Pro sign-him-anyway:

DARKO DPM:
R. Williams: 2.78 (O: 0.49, D: 2.29)
Muscala: 1.34 (O: 0.33, D: 1.01)
Horford: 1.04 (O: -1.07, D: 2.11)
Whiteside: ~0.00 (O: -0.85, D: 0.85)
Kornet: -0.58 (O: -1.76, D: 1.18)
Griffin: -0.66 (O: -1.48, D: 0.83)
G. Williams: -0.85 (O: -1.15, D: 0.30)

(you can only find him under "Historical career trajectory", for some reason his profile is scrubbed from the options on Player Profile)

Plus he's surely available for the minimum (= no luxury tax at all, because the empty roster spot already counts for the minimum), and healthy.
 

lovegtm

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Interesting article, thanks for posting. Because of the math, I suspect that teams making 20 3Ps at a high percentage win most games even in the playoffs. However, it seems to me that it would tough to keep that up through four playoff series but what do I know (other than that we'll have more than one game thread where everyone is futilely imploring the Cs to stop shooting so many 3Ps)?

JMazz is really taking the "live or die by the 3P" to an entire new level, isn't he? I hope the Cs can bomb their way to a championship.
It's more subtle than that. He clearly dislikes 3PAs that come without attacking for the full shot clock, and he mentions that need for multiple attacks and setting the offense early a couple times.

Mazzulla clearly thinks that high 3-point attempt numbers are the result of pressuring the paint multiple times in a possession, and forcing opponents to choose: do we want to fully collapse and take away the rim, or do we want to stay attached to the 3?

Most teams eventually choose "collapse", either as their strategic default or just the natural result of scrambling multiple times in a possession. That means you get really, really high quality rhythm 3s a lot of times per game, and you have to take those.

This arises from a basic feature of basketball: if you're consistently hitting the paint, the other team can always take away a lot of rim shots by simply throwing bodies there and disregarding the perimeter, because there won't be 3-second issues.

If you're not hitting the paint, you're getting non-rhythm 3s that are somewhat contested. As OKC's Daigneault says, "contested 3s are the new long 2s".
 

Jimbodandy

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But we could get him for the minimum, and if we did, he's probably the #2 center. Better defender than any other backup big guy. Would take Kornet's minutes. Muscala is probably more in a Horford role, trying to pull a big outside the paint with his outside shooting threat, moreso than having a bunch of rim-protecting responsibility.

Pro your position: this Reddit thread, discussing how he chases blocks, leaves himself out of position defensively as a result, and doesn't give a shit if it isn't a block opportunity. And complains on instagram about not being allowed to shoot.

Pro sign-him-anyway:

DARKO DPM:
R. Williams: 2.78 (O: 0.49, D: 2.29)
Muscala: 1.34 (O: 0.33, D: 1.01)
Horford: 1.04 (O: -1.07, D: 2.11)
Whiteside: ~0.00 (O: -0.85, D: 0.85)
Kornet: -0.58 (O: -1.76, D: 1.18)
Griffin: -0.66 (O: -1.48, D: 0.83)
G. Williams: -0.85 (O: -1.15, D: 0.30)

(you can only find him under "Historical career trajectory", for some reason his profile is scrubbed from the options on Player Profile)

Plus he's surely available for the minimum (= no luxury tax at all, because the empty roster spot already counts for the minimum), and healthy.
I love a case built on numbers, but I'm in the Hogan camp on this one. Whiteside is subtraction by addition. Kornet and Blake are content in their roles and good chemistry guys. Guy has been on four teams in four years for a reason.

And Blake and even Kornet can hit a spot up 3, whereas Hassan's a 60% FT shooter.
 

joe dokes

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Classic case of a guy who does a bunch of things very averagely. He can roll to the basket, a little. He can shoot threes, a little. He can guard out on the perimeter, a little. He can protect the rim a little. He can follow the rules of verticality, a little. He can avoid fouling out, a little.
This comes quite close to describing Derrick White, just replacing "a little" with "a lot."

It does widen our variance quite a bit. I'm a bit worried about going into a deciding playoff game and having a poor shooting performance like the 2017 Rockets vs. Warriors. Hopefully the Cs have enough in their bag to score even when that part of the offense is disappointing.
True, but that's where having someone who can score effectively in 10 different ways like Tatum comes in. In the larger picture, I also think that White, Brogdon, Smart and Brown (to a lesser extent given his occasional handling mishaps in traffic), have the court sense to push the offense into the paint more if the 3s are all going to shit. Which, in turn, should have the effect of making the 3s even *less* contested. I *think* that's Mazzulla's point. As lovegtm says, the idea is to make the 3s as less-contested as possible. Sure, if they then miss a metric fuckton of wide-open 3s, it's going to be a problem. But I have a hard time seeing *all* of their quality 3-pt shooters doing that.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Yeah, when you have four guys in the top 25 for 3PT%, PLUS Tatum and Brown, you cut down on variance by a lot. Maybe Brogdon/Grant/Al all go cold (Hauser presumably does't play much in the playoffs), but then you've got Tatum/Brown/Smart/White as your "bad" 3-point shooters.

Plus, Brogdon/White/Tatum/Smart can all reliably get to the rim against all but the best defenders.

I don't think scoring points is going to be a problem. I think the championship comes down to whether Rob can stay healthy and whether they can apply the clamps that showed up in the second half of last year.
 

benhogan

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But we could get him for the minimum, and if we did, he's probably the #2 center. Better defender than any other backup big guy. Would take Kornet's minutes. Muscala is probably more in a Horford role, trying to pull a big outside the paint with his outside shooting threat, moreso than having a bunch of rim-protecting responsibility.

Pro your position: this Reddit thread, discussing how he chases blocks, leaves himself out of position defensively as a result, and doesn't give a shit if it isn't a block opportunity. And complains on instagram about not being allowed to shoot.

Pro sign-him-anyway:

DARKO DPM:
R. Williams: 2.78 (O: 0.49, D: 2.29)
Muscala: 1.34 (O: 0.33, D: 1.01)
Horford: 1.04 (O: -1.07, D: 2.11)
Whiteside: ~0.00 (O: -0.85, D: 0.85)
Kornet: -0.58 (O: -1.76, D: 1.18)
Griffin: -0.66 (O: -1.48, D: 0.83)
G. Williams: -0.85 (O: -1.15, D: 0.30)

(you can only find him under "Historical career trajectory", for some reason his profile is scrubbed from the options on Player Profile)

Plus he's surely available for the minimum (= no luxury tax at all, because the empty roster spot already counts for the minimum), and healthy.
I was a Whiteside on a minimum fan in the pre-season as TimeLord insurance. @HomeRunBaker posted, at the time, about his bad locker room reputation.

I agree with all of Hassan's positive metrics you posted. BUT with no NBA team even sniffing him, the bad teammate thing probably has legs. Every acquisition/trade has Brad valuing locker room/role players (2019 is still fresh)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's more subtle than that. He clearly dislikes 3PAs that come without attacking for the full shot clock, and he mentions that need for multiple attacks and setting the offense early a couple times.

Mazzulla clearly thinks that high 3-point attempt numbers are the result of pressuring the paint multiple times in a possession, and forcing opponents to choose: do we want to fully collapse and take away the rim, or do we want to stay attached to the 3?

Most teams eventually choose "collapse", either as their strategic default or just the natural result of scrambling multiple times in a possession. That means you get really, really high quality rhythm 3s a lot of times per game, and you have to take those.

This arises from a basic feature of basketball: if you're consistently hitting the paint, the other team can always take away a lot of rim shots by simply throwing bodies there and disregarding the perimeter, because there won't be 3-second issues.

If you're not hitting the paint, you're getting non-rhythm 3s that are somewhat contested. As OKC's Daigneault says, "contested 3s are the new long 2s".
Understand that JMazz's offense is trying to create open to wide-open 3P looks and does a really good job of that when things are humming.

But even wide-open 3Ps are not an easy shot to make and we've already seen the Cs have pretty big variance from month-to-month. My biggest question is what happens when to the Cs shooting when they are playing super physical playoff games every other night for a month (or more)?

So maybe the most important thing for the Cs is to get a better draw than last year's brutal (but entertaining) run. Ending the previous series early and having fresh legs for each playoff series may help to eliminate some of the 3P variance.
 

benhogan

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Understand that JMazz's offense is trying to create open to wide-open 3P looks and does a really good job of that when things are humming.

But even wide-open 3Ps are not an easy shot to make and we've already seen the Cs have pretty big variance from month-to-month. My biggest question is what happens when to the Cs shooting when they are playing super physical playoff games every other night for a month (or more)?

So maybe the most important thing for the Cs is to get a better draw than last year's brutal (but entertaining) run. Ending the previous series early and having fresh legs for each playoff series may help to eliminate some of the 3P variance.
I'm for more sweeps as a hedge against losing ;)

The penetration, kick-out for the open, step-in 3 (esp. Corner3) is the variety Joe is striving for. I expect we'll see more White/Smart/Brogdon penetration for kick-outs than last year's incessant Brown/Tatum ISO into the lane against double teams approach.

It's the best way to attack Milwaukee's drop defense. Coach Bud has always been willing to give up 3s. The C's have been attempting more 3s, getting better looks, and adding the personnel (Brogdon, Muscala, Hauser role) to exploit the weakest part of the Buck's defense.

We are just going to have to Learn to Stop Worrying and Love the 3pt Bomb

https://behindthebuckpass.com/2022/01/31/milwaukee-bucks-problem-defending-3s/
 

joe dokes

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It's the best way to attack Milwaukee's drop defense. Coach Bud has always been willing to give up 3s. The C's have been attempting more 3s, getting better looks, and adding the personnel (Brogdon, Muscala, Hauser role) to exploit the weakest part of the Buck's defense.



https://behindthebuckpass.com/2022/01/31/milwaukee-bucks-problem-defending-3s/
I never really thought of it that way. The big picture is that Stevens has built a team that is great in many different ways. But you're right, it's also particularly effective against the weakness of their biggest EC rival.
 

benhogan

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I want to make a "you know that you're old" joke about the Dr. Strangelove reference but, um, I'd prefer to continue pretending that I'm not old.
the sands in the hourglass are in overdrive

The scars of Houston and Boston shooting themselves out of 2018 Game 7s are still visible
 

benhogan

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I never really thought of it that way. The big picture is that Stevens has built a team that is great in many different ways. But you're right, it's also particularly effective against the weakness of their biggest EC rival.
Having Brook/Giannis waiting at the rim with Jrue relentlessly trying to strip the JAYS made Pritchard/Granite Game 7 heroes

22/55 (40%) from 3 in that Game 7 blowout (109-81)
 

bigq

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Having Brook/Giannis waiting at the rim with Jrue relentlessly trying to strip the JAYS made Pritchard/Granite Game 7 heroes

22/55 (40%) from 3 in that Game 7 blowout (109-81)
Wow I had forgotten that Boston launched 55 threes in that game including 18 from Grant Williams.
 

slamminsammya

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Yeah, when you have four guys in the top 25 for 3PT%, PLUS Tatum and Brown, you cut down on variance by a lot.
The normal sense of "variance" actually is maximized at 50% shooting, I think what we are talking about in this thread is more streakiness or something like that, which might not even be streakiness in shooting skill but more just variation in how efficiently the offense is generating good looks.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This game, fortunately a win, highlighted all of my doubts about this team. At the end of thday, having a deep bench doesn't matter because those guys aren't going to get minutes. And the starters, late in close games, are going to struggle to score and struggle to get stops.

Around the All-Star break, Jaylen Brown commented something to the effect of he knew he was sacrificing by being in Boston because he could have a bigger role elsewhere. Really? What is he looking for, exactly. His usage rate is 31.5, which is goods for 12th in the league. Yes, he's behind Tatum (8th), but he is also ahead of Steph (14th). And he gets to rack up all those possessions on a team with a star player who has a ton of gravity, which helps him. He's also 12th in the league in points per game.

My point is not to paint Brown as some kind of malcontent, really. It is just that, while we talk about the egos on this team all being controlled and everyone working together in a team first way, it is not entirely true. And the cracks show up late in close games when the offense becomes "my turn, your turn" and a team that can defend well at the first point of attack gets the stop.

The other problem that they have in late game situations is that I think that appeasing the egos on the team requires that Malcolm Brogdon's role be reduced to "spot up shooter." That's OK in one sense - Brogdon is a very good spot up shooter - but he's also the guy on the team with the best combination of ballahandling, creation of offense (for himself and others), and avoidance of turnovers.

So last night, with 1:41 left, Halliburton is fouled and hits the pair to tie the game at 125. On the next Celtic possession, Tatum drives, misses a tough layup, and Brown follows but misses. The Celtics get a stop, but Tatum throws the ball away. The Celtics get another stop (Halliburton missed three), and Brown throws the ball away. My turn, your turn, Brogdon doesn't get a turn, and the Celtics do not get a shot over the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game. Halliburton misses another three to send it to OT. This win came because Halliburton missed 2 late threes, leading to OT. How often is he going to do that? During this, Brogdon's role is indistinguishable from what Romeo Langford's would have been if he was still here.

At the same time as Brogdon is the most skilled offensive player and likely the best late game option for running the offense, he's also by far the weakest defender among our guards. If he's not going to have the ball in his hands, then arguably Mazzulla should play Derrick White who is the better defensive player.

The one good thing about the game is this: in the OT, they let Smart run the offense. And because Indiana's D was keyed to Tatum and Brown, Smart was able to score the first 7 points of the OT for the Celtics (actually, 7 of the first 8 with Tatum hitting a technical FT) and loosen things up for the others. When the defense leaves something open, the Celtics have to put the egos aside and take it.