2022-2023 General Celtics thread

Imbricus

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I watched the first three quarters. I thought Indiana played a really spirited game; they had something to prove. Miles Turner was really on: while he was practically unconscious from three (8 for 10), his ability to affect the Celtics' ability to drive was noticeable, even though he only had one block.

Celtics came out really flat to start the third. Tatum's shooting was horrid in the first half. He did take a tumble onto his left wrist, but his shooting actually improved after that, so I suppose that's a good sign.

And Grant logging only 6 minutes maybe not a good sign for the Celtics keeping a guy who wants to make $20 million next year (to be fair, there wasn't a matchup that especially favored Grant on defense).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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So last night, with 1:41 left, Halliburton is fouled and hits the pair to tie the game at 125. On the next Celtic possession, Tatum drives, misses a tough layup, and Brown follows but misses. The Celtics get a stop, but Tatum throws the ball away. The Celtics get another stop (Halliburton missed three), and Brown throws the ball away. My turn, your turn, Brogdon doesn't get a turn, and the Celtics do not get a shot over the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game.
This isn't really true. First I think you meant the Cs didn't get a bucket in the last 1:17 as they got shots.

Second, the ball was in JT's hand, where it should be. On the missed layup, he got a mismatch (I forget who), had a lane, and had a pretty easy layup on the left side of the bucket but I think one issue was that he switched from left hand to right hand and used the wrong angle. I think he makes that 9 times out of 10. Maybe he switched hands because of his wrist. Who knows?

As for JB, he was in transition (where we want him to be) if IIRC off a loose ball rebound and had what might be a called an "unconventional" 2-1. JB threw the ball away trying to get it to an open Horford who was standing by the basket but wasn't positioned where the pass was thrown.

It wasn't at all like it was 14 months ago, where they'd take turns doing individual moves against a set defense. Plus when the score is 142-138 (even in OT), I'd point to the defense before offense. I didn't watch the entire game but Scal mentioned in the 4Q that BOS failed to get to open 3P shooters all game and I saw a few examples of it in the 4Q. They did better down the stretch and in OT.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This isn't really true. First I think you meant the Cs didn't get a bucket in the last 1:17 as they got shots.

Second, the ball was in JT's hand, where it should be. On the missed layup, he got a mismatch (I forget who), had a lane, and had a pretty easy layup on the left side of the bucket but I think one issue was that he switched from left hand to right hand and used the wrong angle. I think he makes that 9 times out of 10. Maybe he switched hands because of his wrist. Who knows?
I think I was vague. The last shots the Celtics got in regulation were Tatum's missed layup at 1:22 and Brown's missed follow 3 seconds later (neither of which I had any issue with). After Brown's miss, the Celtics got 2 more possessions, both of which ended in turnovers, Tatum and Brown each throwing a ball away. The Brown pass was especially stupid. That's an unacceptable recipe for losing games. How often is Halliburton, a career 40% shooter from three, going to miss a pair at the end of the game? You can't bank on that and expect to win.
 

joe dokes

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This win came because Halliburton missed 2 late threes, leading to OT. How often is he going to do that?
About as often as Myles Turner is going to turn into Reggie Miller. (13/15 FG; 8/10 3pt)

Celtics got 2 more possessions, both of which ended in turnovers, Tatum and Brown each throwing a ball away. The Brown pass was especially stupid. T
And if they didn't try to pass, they'd be getting shit for "hero ball."

They score 125 in regulation. Not sure offense was the problem. They gave up 125. The defense may have slacked after they got the big lead, but Indiana was shooting pretty unconsciously at times.
 

Fishy1

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I think I was vague. The last shots the Celtics got in regulation were Tatum's missed layup at 1:22 and Brown's missed follow 3 seconds later (neither of which I had any issue with). After Brown's miss, the Celtics got 2 more possessions, both of which ended in turnovers, Tatum and Brown each throwing a ball away. The Brown pass was especially stupid. That's an unacceptable recipe for losing games. How often is Halliburton, a career 40% shooter from three, going to miss a pair at the end of the game? You can't bank on that and expect to win.
This is a tad bit disingenuous. Smart smothered Halliburton on the last play. It wasn't just that he "missed" the shot, he took a bad, heavily covered look because it was all he got. Which is not accidental: everybody struggles at the end of games. It's the hardest time to score. Even bad defenses lock down. It's not a problem unique to the Celtics, and in fact, they have the 2nd best NTRG in close and late situations. Isolation play is typical at the end of games. Halliburton tried to isolate Smart. He got an awful look, and he's a much better ballhandler than Brown.

I'm not saying the Celtics turnovers weren't frustrating, or that I didn't wish JB had a better handle and more court awareness sometimes... but I am saying that I think these things are being overblown.
 

Jimbodandy

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The "lite" part of "canderson-lite" needs to be retired.

They took their foot off the gas pedal defensively in the third and almost threw it away. Once they made it to overtime, they imposed their will.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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The Cs with their starting five back and on the return from an All-Star game where Tatum and Brown were the number one attraction were clearly feeling their oats. So many absurd passes that sailed over heads or out of bounds and plenty of other ambitious ideas that became turnovers. Those things will settle down.

I personally liked the fact that JT essentially told the Pacers they were not going to win today and dominated the OT and made sure they secured a game they should win.

But the Pacers came in 18-14 at home and were getting Halliburton back, who was himself high on All-Star game fumes. The Cs were largely in charge of that game wire to wire and didn't finish great (while Myles Turner was draining ridiculous threes; if he can shoot like that regularly, he's a top-10 player in the league).

If I'm expressing a concern, it's with the TimeLord — even after a week off, he looked very average. His hops are not what they were and he's not the defensive force he was at the end of last year. I think it's a problem.
 

joe dokes

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If I'm expressing a concern, it's with the TimeLord — even after a week off, he looked very average. His hops are not what they were and he's not the defensive force he was at the end of last year. I think it's a problem.
This a thousand times. His rebounding and defensive instincts -- he's in the right place most of the time -- are not matching up with his physical output. (His mind is willing, but his body isn't there). I am usually loathe to make these calls from the couch, but he looks kinda heavy. Or I'm way off on that, and he's just rusty and/or cautious, and like the rest of the "starting 5," needs PT with that group.
 

TripleOT

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This a thousand times. His rebounding and defensive instincts -- he's in the right place most of the time -- are not matching up with his physical output. (His mind is willing, but his body isn't there). I am usually loathe to make these calls from the couch, but he looks kinda heavy. Or I'm way off on that, and he's just rusty and/or cautious, and like the rest of the "starting 5," needs PT with that group.
I an thinking, and hoping, that TL is just playing very cautiously. Indy is not a good matchup for him if Turner is hitting his threes. Besides getting torched from deep, he didn’t have many block opportunities (probably from being positioned a bit further away from the hoop than usual). He hasn’t been the same shot blocking terror this season, with as many zero block games as multi block games, five.

Offensively, he clearly isn’t getting up to the penthouse lately. Besides not dunking powerfully, he’s putting up soft close in shots, instead of exploding through defenders for strong dunks or layups.
 
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Fishy1

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The Cs with their starting five back and on the return from an All-Star game where Tatum and Brown were the number one attraction were clearly feeling their oats. So many absurd passes that sailed over heads or out of bounds and plenty of other ambitious ideas that became turnovers. Those things will settle down.

I personally liked the fact that JT essentially told the Pacers they were not going to win today and dominated the OT and made sure they secured a game they should win.

But the Pacers came in 18-14 at home and were getting Halliburton back, who was himself high on All-Star game fumes. The Cs were largely in charge of that game wire to wire and didn't finish great (while Myles Turner was draining ridiculous threes; if he can shoot like that regularly, he's a top-10 player in the league).

If I'm expressing a concern, it's with the TimeLord — even after a week off, he looked very average. His hops are not what they were and he's not the defensive force he was at the end of last year. I think it's a problem.
This a thousand times. His rebounding and defensive instincts -- he's in the right place most of the time -- are not matching up with his physical output. (His mind is willing, but his body isn't there). I am usually loathe to make these calls from the couch, but he looks kinda heavy. Or I'm way off on that, and he's just rusty and/or cautious, and like the rest of the "starting 5," needs PT with that group.
I an thinking, and hoping, that TL is just playing very cautiously. Indy is not a good matchup for him if Turner is hitting his threes. Besides getting torched from deep, he didn’t have many block opportunities (probably from being positioned a bit further away from the hoop than usual). He hasn’t been the same shot blocking terror this season, with as many zero block games as multi block games, five.

Offensively, he clearly isn’t getting up to the penthouse lately. Besides not dunking powerfully, he’s putting up soft close in shots, instead of exploding through defenders for strong dunks or layups.

The facts definitely bear this all out. Blocks are way down per 36, and steals are slightly down as well. I found myself wondering all the same things last night -- is it rust, is it caution, or is he in pain?

It's kind of bizarre to see some on the board still griping about Tatum and Brown, who just keep getting better and better despite their flaws, when our All-NBA defensive center looks sort of average out there right now. Kornet is actually leading the team in blocks/36 right now.

The good news is it's still a top 5 defense with a hobbled/slow Rob. They've got a nice mix of great defensive wings and guards and solid rim protectors at center for deterrence. Other teams are still afraid to attack Rob and to a lesser extent Horford and Kornet.

61558
 

DJnVa

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I think I was vague. The last shots the Celtics got in regulation were Tatum's missed layup at 1:22 and Brown's missed follow 3 seconds later (neither of which I had any issue with). After Brown's miss, the Celtics got 2 more possessions, both of which ended in turnovers, Tatum and Brown each throwing a ball away. The Brown pass was especially stupid. That's an unacceptable recipe for losing games. How often is Halliburton, a career 40% shooter from three, going to miss a pair at the end of the game? You can't bank on that and expect to win.
Will he miss more or less often than Tatum misses a layup?
 

Eddie Jurak

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I didn’t think “it’s a problem if the Celtics cannot get a shot off during the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game” would be controversial, but here we are, I guess.
 

lovegtm

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This game, fortunately a win, highlighted all of my doubts about this team. At the end of thday, having a deep bench doesn't matter because those guys aren't going to get minutes. And the starters, late in close games, are going to struggle to score and struggle to get stops.

Around the All-Star break, Jaylen Brown commented something to the effect of he knew he was sacrificing by being in Boston because he could have a bigger role elsewhere. Really? What is he looking for, exactly. His usage rate is 31.5, which is goods for 12th in the league. Yes, he's behind Tatum (8th), but he is also ahead of Steph (14th). And he gets to rack up all those possessions on a team with a star player who has a ton of gravity, which helps him. He's also 12th in the league in points per game.

My point is not to paint Brown as some kind of malcontent, really. It is just that, while we talk about the egos on this team all being controlled and everyone working together in a team first way, it is not entirely true. And the cracks show up late in close games when the offense becomes "my turn, your turn" and a team that can defend well at the first point of attack gets the stop.

The other problem that they have in late game situations is that I think that appeasing the egos on the team requires that Malcolm Brogdon's role be reduced to "spot up shooter." That's OK in one sense - Brogdon is a very good spot up shooter - but he's also the guy on the team with the best combination of ballahandling, creation of offense (for himself and others), and avoidance of turnovers.

So last night, with 1:41 left, Halliburton is fouled and hits the pair to tie the game at 125. On the next Celtic possession, Tatum drives, misses a tough layup, and Brown follows but misses. The Celtics get a stop, but Tatum throws the ball away. The Celtics get another stop (Halliburton missed three), and Brown throws the ball away. My turn, your turn, Brogdon doesn't get a turn, and the Celtics do not get a shot over the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game. Halliburton misses another three to send it to OT. This win came because Halliburton missed 2 late threes, leading to OT. How often is he going to do that? During this, Brogdon's role is indistinguishable from what Romeo Langford's would have been if he was still here.

At the same time as Brogdon is the most skilled offensive player and likely the best late game option for running the offense, he's also by far the weakest defender among our guards. If he's not going to have the ball in his hands, then arguably Mazzulla should play Derrick White who is the better defensive player.

The one good thing about the game is this: in the OT, they let Smart run the offense. And because Indiana's D was keyed to Tatum and Brown, Smart was able to score the first 7 points of the OT for the Celtics (actually, 7 of the first 8 with Tatum hitting a technical FT) and loosen things up for the others. When the defense leaves something open, the Celtics have to put the egos aside and take it.
My only thing with this criticism is that this team has been one of the better crunchtime teams in the league, has dominated top-10 opponents (no one else has been close there), and made it to the Finals last year.

Are you sure that this isn't just what every fan thinks about their good team? Statistically, every other team has had more reason to worry about the stuff you mention than the Celtics have.

EDIT: The Bucks went to OT while blowing a 16 point lead in the last 3 minutes against a not-great Raptors team. They let the Celtics take them to OT without playing starters.

The NBA regular season is very long, weird shit happens, and you can find any number of reasons to freak out if you look at isolated instances. Winning NBA games is hard. The other team tries. Variance happens. You need to be able to zoom out at least slightly to make reasonable evaluations.
 

Fishy1

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I didn’t think “it’s a problem if the Celtics cannot get a shot off during the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game” would be controversial, but here we are, I guess.
Here we are indeed! My issue with your post was that you extrapolated one end-of-game viewing experience to be representative of the team in general, when the data doesn't bear out your argument.

Do you have an actual response to the oodles of data and perspective you're being given as feedback? Or is your sense of this team's vibes trumps all other considerations?

EDIT: Let me add that we all have these snap responses to disappointing games (even ones we win). Part of what's interesting, at least to me, is examining those responses, which are often emotionally driven, against the actual facts, and seeing whether they're reasonable. I at least appreciate that on this board we have a lot of posters who will do that hard work of looking at the data, of considering other perspectives, to see if our eyes are lying to us.

Nobody is saying the Celtics are perfect. It would be wonderful if Tatum and Brown had Lebron/Harden/Chris Paul levels of BBIQ and court vision. We all know they don't, and we all know that's a limitation of the team. Despite that flaw, they are still among the very best close and late, which speaks to their level of buy-in on the offense and their relative qualities as scorers. This C's team has the best NTRG in the league for the second year running for a reason.
 
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joe dokes

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I didn’t think “it’s a problem if the Celtics cannot get a shot off during the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game” would be controversial, but here we are, I guess.
Was it a problem last night? Yes. If that happens in every single game going forward, it is likely to be a problem. Is that what you're looking for?
Their two best players, rather than playing iso/hero ball, made bad passes while trying to get teammates a better shot. I think it very unlikely that that represents some sort of chronic issue. Also, the guys on the other team are on the varsity, too.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The facts definitely bear this all out. Blocks are way down per 36, and steals are slightly down as well. I found myself wondering all the same things last night -- is it rust, is it caution, or is he in pain?
If TL were in pain, I'd think he'd be on the injury report. He also played 25 minutes last night, which is good. Maybe it's a combination of him really needing to get up to game speed plus him finally understanding that he needs to pace himself to be healthy for the finals?

I didn’t think “it’s a problem if the Celtics cannot get a shot off during the final 1:17 of regulation in a tie game” would be controversial, but here we are, I guess.
Is it a problem that the Cs turned the ball over on their last two possessions, including one transition turnover where JB was trying to make the correct play? The "1:17" sounds worse to me than two possessions as I feel like the Cs would normally have more than two possessions during that period.
 

benhogan

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Double BIGz isn't great when Turner goes Curry. TimeLord still looks out of rhythm. He has 20 games to ramp up. I'd expect Brad/CJM to have contingency plans if TL isn't right healthwise, other than hoping the Old Rob returns

I do like Smart/White/MB initiating and using the JAYs in actions to create mismatches. They were better off when they let Smart initiate in OT with the Pacers extremely focused on Tatum/Brown. Smart (or Brogdon) bullying small PGs in the lane is a fantastic option. I expect CJM will have them continue to move the ball, find mismatches and take the best shot since they will live in the half-court throughout the playoffs.

I'd expect fewer JAY ISO/dribble fests in this years playoffs vs. last year, which I believe is partially Eddie's concern
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Double BIGz isn't great when Turner goes Curry. TimeLord still looks out of rhythm. He has 20 games to ramp up. I'd expect Brad/CJM to have contingency plans if TL isn't right healthwise, other than hoping the Old Rob returns
The TL / Al / JB / JT / Smart lineup had a -25.0 NRtg in 11 minutes last night. (137.5 ORtg versus 162.5 DRtg). The numbers they posted last season were reversed. :)
 

HomeRunBaker

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Our two best offensive players, our two best creators, two of the Top 15 players in the league, each made poor decisions/bad passes down the stretch after a week of whooping it up at All-Star week.

Is there any smaller of a sample size to complain about? Imagine if we lost the game lol. My biggest concern out of this game is the same concern I’ve had since last spring and that is the corpse gingerly running up and down the floor who used to go by the name Time Lord.

We’re on to Philly.
 
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RorschachsMask

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It was like two different games for Tatum last night. Had 15/8/2 on 16 shots, and 3 turnovers through three quarters. Then in the 4th and OT, he had 16/4/5 on 9 shots, with 1 turnover, which was poorly timed to be fair lol.

Was kind of similar with Embiid in the Sixers game I was watching, MVP players just have another year they can reach even when struggling most of the game.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Here we are indeed! My issue with your post was that you extrapolated one end-of-game viewing experience to be representative of the team in general, when the data doesn't bear out your argument.

Do you have an actual response to the oodles of data and perspective you're being given as feedback? Or is your sense of this team's vibes trumps all other considerations?
To me they are (rightly) the favorites to win. But there are no guarantees, and what happened last night looks to me like they way the lose, if they lose. They don't necessarily get a ton of work in those type of situations because they are too good a team to be in them. And a lot of their close and late work hasn't featured all of the top players because of injuries.

I also think I was wrong about Malcolm Brogdon's value to the team. I had thought that he would be the guy to solve the late game/playoff issues from last season because he is a far better ballhander than either Tatum or Brown, and while he is obviously not the scorer that Tatum and Brown are, he's the next best one on the Celtics and is a better creator for others than either of them. For this reason, I thought adding Brogdon filled the exact hole that, more than anything else, caused them to lose to GS. In the finals loss they turned the ball over a lot and Brown and Tatum struggled to create offense.

What now concerns me that in those close late situations, star ego management is going to require that Brogdon just go to the corner and be a spot up shooter. So, the benefits he could have brought in terms of possession and creation won't help (because the ball won't be in his hands). That's too much to read into one game, but if it does turn out to be the case I'd really rather have White in the closing 5 because he can spot up from the corner (though worse than Brogdon) but also is a better defender.

Anyway, Mazzulla has more talent on hand than he can/will use, so the depth advantage I thought the Celtics had is less valuable than I thought it was.
 

lovegtm

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Our two best offensive players, our two best creators, two of the Top 15 players in the league, each made poor decisions/bad passes down the stretch after a week of whooping it up at All-Star week.

Is there any smaller of a sample size to complain about? Imagine if we lost the game lol. My biggest concern out of this game is the same concern I’ve had since last spring and that is the corpse gingerly running up and down the floor who used to go by the name Time Lord.

We’re on to Philly.
Agree that TL is becoming very concerning, and the FO may have misevaluated his health prospects going forward.
 

BigSoxFan

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It was like two different games for Tatum last night. Had 15/8/2 on 16 shots, and 3 turnovers through three quarters. Then in the 4th and OT, he had 16/4/5 on 9 shots, with 1 turnover, which was poorly timed to be fair lol.

Was kind of similar with Embiid in the Sixers game I was watching, MVP players just have another year they can reach even when struggling most of the game.
Feels like Tatum has had at least a few of those. Games where he’s sitting in the 3rd at like 4-15 and then turns into a monster when it matters most.
 

bakahump

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First off you wont find many people who are bigger fans of Rob then me. Save Forsburg...
But....
There was a play last night where Turner (who was indeed a bad matchup when he goes off) was at the top of the key.....Pass goes out to him, he takes a second lines it up......Rob stood in about the middle of the paint. Like just stood there. AL who was guarding someone else to Robs left, Saw the open three left his guy and went all out, close out, to at least contest. While Rob just watched and never even fainted toward the shooter. 98% sure it went in.
Now what does this tell us? IDK. But it was a bad look by Time Lord. No hustle. Kinda a "I guard the paint mentality screw the perimeter" impression.

While I love what timelord does.....a least a big part of his value (to me) was not only his ability to hover around the paint and intimidate, but also his willingness to Leap 12 feet into the air and challenge 3s out on the perimeter with his sheer length/hops. A Curry contest earlier this year comes to mind.

Not doing so was.......troubling.

One play.
Maybe hurt.
Betting that Turner is only an averageish 3pt shooter.
Concentrating on rebounding.

Could be lots of reasons. But it was noteworthy (at least to me) in the moment.
 

the moops

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There was a play last night where Turner (who was indeed a bad matchup when he goes off) was at the top of the key.....Pass goes out to him, he takes a second lines it up......Rob stood in about the middle of the paint. Like just stood there. AL who was guarding someone else to Robs left, Saw the open three left his guy and went all out, close out, to at least contest. While Rob just watched and never even fainted toward the shooter. 98% sure it went in.
I don't think this happened as you remember. Here is one of his two misses, where nobody runs out to challenge him, but Rob isn't in the game for this one https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=400&GameID=0022200887&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=MISS Turner 26' 3PT Jump Shot

And here is all his makes.
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3M&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=31800&GameID=0022200887&PlayerID=1626167&RangeType=0&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612754&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Agree that TL is becoming very concerning, and the FO may have misevaluated his health prospects going forward.
Why misevaluated? I mean the contract is a steal even at his current level of play and with regard to his physical health, there's not much the Cs can do about that. I don't think anyone - including TL - thought he'd be able to do what he did this time last year for four full seasons.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Lets compile a list of concerns about this team:

-Mazzulla's timeouts (or lack thereof)
-Mazzulla's rotations
-Mazzulla overusing Tatum and Brown during the regular season
-The Celtics late game execution problems
-TimeLord may be injured
-Not enough frontcourt size on the roster.

That looks pretty dire actually. What else is lurking out there that will result in them falling short?
 

bakahump

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Upon review it was indeed Als guy (Turner). However TL does indeed basically give up on the play on what possibly shoulda been a switch???

Still to my novice eye, not a good look and not great effort from TL.
 

sonofgodcf

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The toilet.
Lets compile a list of concerns about this team:

-Mazzulla's timeouts (or lack thereof)
-Mazzulla's rotations
-Mazzulla overusing Tatum and Brown during the regular season
-The Celtics late game execution problems
-TimeLord may be injured
-Not enough frontcourt size on the roster.

That looks pretty dire actually. What else is lurking out there that will result in them falling short?
Brogdon never smiles. Are we sure he's not a malcontent unhappy with his role?!
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Marcus Smart was a goddamn bulldog in OT. Mathurin and Halliburton got a great life lesson about bears and why you don't poke bears.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Marcus Smart was a goddamn bulldog in OT. Mathurin and Halliburton got a great life lesson about bears and why you don't poke bears.
When it was mentioned upthread about how fortunate we were that Haliburton, a 40% three-point shooter, missed both of his late attempts this also came to mind. Smart didn’t give him an inch, forced him to rush these shots, and hotly contested them turning them into 20-25% attempts.
 

lovegtm

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Why misevaluated? I mean the contract is a steal even at his current level of play and with regard to his physical health, there's not much the Cs can do about that. I don't think anyone - including TL - thought he'd be able to do what he did this time last year for four full seasons.
Sorry, I should be clearer. I loved the contract from the day it was signed.

I mean that there's a chance they mis-evaluated wrt his health going forward, because there is something the Cs can do about that: they can trade for a starting center and move on from TL.

I'm not saying that I recommend doing that, but hard decisions like that are why Brad gets paid the big bucks. The Cs are an extremely deep title contender, and they need to decide whether X% chance of Amazing TL is better than a much higher % chance of getting good but not Amazing production from someone else.
 

the moops

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Upon review it was indeed Als guy (Turner). However TL does indeed basically give up on the play on what possibly shoulda been a switch???

Still to my novice eye, not a good look and not great effort from TL.
Hard to tell if it was supposed to be a switch or not, but Al did seem to have a bit of hop in his step in a "oh shit" kinda way, which makes me believe that Al should have stuck with Turner
 

slamminsammya

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For what it's worth is advanced metrics are still really good. He definitely looks less active, but we may be in a phase where his reputation as a shot blocker is affecting shots and decision making just as effectively as actual blocks would be.

Offensively he looks the same to me, but guys just aren't getting him the lobs he feeds on as much. Is that scheme or a loss of hops on his part?
 

snowmanny

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Re: TL and Al, I mean, we are going to have to wait for one of those Film Session video breakdowns to see who exactly inexcusably and inexplicably fucked up.
 

slamminsammya

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For your consideration regarding Timelord:

1) Maybe this is just how shot blocking naturally progresses, by some combination of conserving energy, reputation, or loss of athetlicism.
61583

2) He still grades as a very good defender (I realize the smoothing method here may be slow to pickup sudden changes due to injury).
61582
 

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Pretty big game tonite in Philly. The Sixers are coming off a fantastic win over Memphis and have been playing well of late.
 

benhogan

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Pretty big game tonite in Philly. The Sixers are coming off a fantastic win over Memphis and have been playing well of late.
The Celtics' schedule gets interesting over the next month

The next 6 games are versus EC playoff teams (4 National Broadcasts :rolleyes: )
The 76ers, NYK, and Cavs are all 7-3 over their last 10 games.

PDX @ home then 6 games on the road (final West Coast swing)
 

bosockboy

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I think besides health, the most important thing down the stretch is Joe settling on the playoff closing lineup. White sitting makes them demonstrably worse.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think besides health, the most important thing down the stretch is Joe settling on the playoff closing lineup. White sitting makes them demonstrably worse.
I don’t expect him to ever settle on a set lineup and every series/game is going to be matchup dependent.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think besides health, the most important thing down the stretch is Joe settling on the playoff closing lineup. White sitting makes them demonstrably worse.
The issue is that White has really become such a viable alternate scoring option that Mazzulla is now forced to trade some form of D for O. To his credit, he managed it pretty well this game. They needed Smart on Harden at the end (Harden seems like he absolutely hates playing against Smart but maybe I am imagining it) so they opted for DW in lieu of Grant.

That said it won't be a total shock if he takes Smart's crunch time minutes in certain matchups. And if this team is as all about winning as it seems, its probably not a big deal.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The issue is that White has really become such a viable alternate scoring option that Mazzulla is now forced to trade some form of D for O. To his credit, he managed it pretty well this game. They needed Smart on Harden at the end (Harden seems like he absolutely hates playing against Smart but maybe I am imagining it) so they opted for DW in lieu of Grant.

That said it won't be a total shock if he takes Smart's crunch time minutes in certain matchups. And if this team is as all about winning as it seems, its probably not a big deal.
Yeah, It’s always going to be D for O at end of games and if we get a stop we may not wish to burn a timeout for a role player substitution so it isn’t always possible to optimize both D and O however D is going to take priority and Smart is going to be on the floor for those possessions. The job he did on Haliburton on those final possessions got us the win the other night and like you said Harden didn’t want him anywhere around him when he had the ball.