2022 Dolphins: Our coach is cooler than yours
- Thread starter sodenj5
- Start date
This is Amazon's first year taking over the full Thursday night package. This isn't hard to understand why Amazon isn't going to let them talk about how the NFL fucked this up.
It sucks, but we've all made our bed with it as NFL fans. No ethical consumption under capitalism, etc.
It sucks, but we've all made our bed with it as NFL fans. No ethical consumption under capitalism, etc.
I’m kind of shocked they even showed the replay, and continued to show it. The fact they even showed the fingers again and pointed out it was a potential neurological issue was surprising to me.
Just look at this fucking video. He couldn't stand up under his own power. This player was not only allowed back on the field tonight - 4 days later - but they let him back on the field THAT DAY. Someone needs to answer to this.
Edit: There's probably something wrong with the testing. Players might be able to pass the test even when concussed. There needs to be a higher level of scrutiny when a player clearly demonstrates concussion symptoms on the field. We've seen this happen before Tua and it's never good.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/status/1574126230277857285
Edit: There's probably something wrong with the testing. Players might be able to pass the test even when concussed. There needs to be a higher level of scrutiny when a player clearly demonstrates concussion symptoms on the field. We've seen this happen before Tua and it's never good.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/status/1574126230277857285
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As great as conspiracy theories are, I’m pretty sure the fact that Amazon is in the first year of its deal with the NFL had nothing to do with the in the moment coverage from Kirk, Al, or the producer. Especially since they brought up that last week was still being investigated at some point in the broadcast. I’m also with @luckiestman on what I want to hear from the booth on this.
I dunno. It's not a conspiracy theory to say that the NFL doesn't want Amazon to play up concussion stuff.
And how would they ensure that manifests in the broadcast to Al Michaels when he’s talking about an obviously concussed guy who they literally just mentioned (can’t remember if it was just before or right after but it was right around the concussion tonight) may have been concussed the week before that the NFL was actively investigating?
Sweeping last week under the rug, yeah I believe it. Silencing their broadcasters in game as Tua is getting carted off…harder to believe.
Is it? I said in the game thread, having him travel with the team is a PR move. That’s not how you take care of a dude knocked out of two games in 5 days.
I agree it's hard to believe that they are going to be silencing their broadcasters in game, but it's also easy to believe that they told their broadcasters not to make a huge deal out of it. I dunno. It's all just... yuck.
I’m a Dolphins fan, and I would support firing Mike McDaniel (don’t get me started on Ross, Grier and the rest of this shambolic organization).
I don’t care that McDaniel is smart and projects conscientiousness. We’re fucking with that poor kid’s life. This is literally how the sport ends.The evidence was on tape. Goodbye.
I don’t care that McDaniel is smart and projects conscientiousness. We’re fucking with that poor kid’s life. This is literally how the sport ends.The evidence was on tape. Goodbye.
I think it's one thing to fly back tonight. The science seems to suggest flying isn't terrible within 72 hours of sustaining concussion. But, I'd super hesitate to having him fly back with the TEAM tonight. That seems to add an extra layer of noise and other issues he doesn't need right now. I mean I don't see the harm in waiting unless the feeling is that Miami is much better quipped medically to handle his condition.
He sounded pretty moronic in the press conference right now, like he was reciting rehearsed lines or something. Awful.
View: https://twitter.com/McKennAnalysis/status/1575692431257141248
100%. He should not be flying back
View: https://twitter.com/AdamHBeasley/status/1575692510898159617
also. Nothing more serious than a concussion?
GTFOH with that. A second concussion in under a week is fucking serious.
The fact that the NFL continues to downplay concussions is appalling
Seriously someone needs to haul Goodells ass in front of the press and have him explain himself. The league has championed how it has supported efforts to stop concussion but like its “NO more” campaign about how domestic violence and sexual assult. Its nothing more than PR bullshit.
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Any concussion is serious. This is simply what the NFL wants to avoid saying and the Miami HC has seemed to fall in line with the NFL.
View: https://twitter.com/safid_deen/status/1575694498188886018?s=46&t=Qirf0NYOifFyzrpe2WOboQ
This is a heartbreaking statement/tweet.
McDaniel in a difficult spot, obviously being asked some hard questions about Tua’s concussion.
This is a heartbreaking statement/tweet.
McDaniel in a difficult spot, obviously being asked some hard questions about Tua’s concussion.
The talk of firing McDaniels is nuts.
He is the football coach, not a doctor. BB said it best recently.
Unless there’s some info that he bribed or forced the docs to clear him, that’s entirely on the medical staff.
If the medical staff clears a player and the player wants to play, it’s absurd to expect the head football coach to override it.
If Mcdaniels calls an egregiously stupid play to cost the Dolphins a game, should we fire the team neurologist for not stepping in to stop it?
He is the football coach, not a doctor. BB said it best recently.
Unless there’s some info that he bribed or forced the docs to clear him, that’s entirely on the medical staff.
If the medical staff clears a player and the player wants to play, it’s absurd to expect the head football coach to override it.
If Mcdaniels calls an egregiously stupid play to cost the Dolphins a game, should we fire the team neurologist for not stepping in to stop it?
I'm curious if any of the medical personnel at the Cincy hospital were aware of the incident on Sunday, if that info (or lack there of) played any role in such a quick release or if it was suggested that he stay for observation.
Fucking HORRIBLE.
And NOT on McDaniels. Dudes a first year coach relying on the professionals around him. "Do your job" is something we should be familiar with.
McDaniel was a bit defensive in his presser because people were questioning him as if he cleared Tua to return to the game Sunday.
Obviously, there was a failure in the system. Tua returned to the game and seemed fine Sunday, but seeing what happened tonight, it seems very obvious that he was concussed Sunday and somehow it was not diagnosed.
That put him in even further danger tonight, and that hit he took was vicious. The twisting and slamming would have likely concussed him even if he went into the game 100%.
The failure wasn’t necessarily Tua playing tonight. It was how did he manage to get back into the game Sunday in the first place? If he was put in the protocol, it’s very unlikely that he’s able to clear it in time for tonight.
Not trying to pick a fight, but what do you make of McDaniel saying tonight that he is 100% certain Tua did not suffer a head injury on Sunday? He doubled down tonight that the buck stops with him and as long as he's the HC you will never see an injury misreported by the Dolphins. I guess I'm asking why would he say that he's sure Tua did not have a concussion on Sunday? And say it so confidently? Isn't this why BB says he's not a doctor and refuses to weigh in on the exact nature of player injuries?
So, like…I generally agree with the overarching points here. With that said, coaches in other sports are asked semi frequently to make decisions to balance the health of the players and teams and winning. Minutes played and rest days in basketball, pitch counts and high leverage pitches in baseball, etc.The team has claimed Tua was dealing with a couple different injuries and the hit on Sunday was at least a major enough impact to cause fairly prominent names to question the dx and if he should play. Add in a short week and travel and maybe the HC would have valid reason to override it. Or at least can be called into question.
I don’t think a current NFL coach would bench him this week so to me McDaniel isn’t any worse than anyone else to me, just making a case that maybe they should.
As an aside, I’m not sure Miami has a team neurologist. Their lead doc is orthopedic and everyone on NFLPS for Miami is ortho, cardiac, or family medical. I’m sure they have access to one of course.
He’s never had to be under the white hot light like this, so I’m not surprised his reaction is to strongly dispel the notion that the doctors could have fucked up or acted inappropriately.
A more careful answer would have omitted a declaration of certainty, as you note, but it doesn’t really matter. Worst case, he can later say he trusted the medical professionals/what do I know anyways, I’m just a football coach.
I mean, McDaniel is basically throwing his support behind the medical staff and the independent neurologist. He’s saying that because he believes they did their job and evaluated Tua for a concussion.
I don’t know what the right response is, but I believe trusting the professionals to do their jobs that you’re not qualified for is a sound process. If they green light Tua to return, what is he supposed to do?
Christ.
It doesn't even take me to realize that Tua had a head injury -- even after coming back in -- on Sunday.
I get that teams want to get ahead, want to have an advantage, but... man.
I have no idea why they played him tonight other than the desire to win. Which, sure, I get it. But it completely undermines the franchise.
Tua was hurt on Sunday. They played him anyway. Then on Thursday, they played him again. And then he got another head injury.
What the fuck is even the discussion? Look, I am an NFL fan, but this kind of shit is inching me closer to giving it up, and I LOVE fantasy football.
The Dolphins, their coach, their medical team, and The Shield fucked up badly here.
It doesn't even take me to realize that Tua had a head injury -- even after coming back in -- on Sunday.
I get that teams want to get ahead, want to have an advantage, but... man.
I have no idea why they played him tonight other than the desire to win. Which, sure, I get it. But it completely undermines the franchise.
Tua was hurt on Sunday. They played him anyway. Then on Thursday, they played him again. And then he got another head injury.
What the fuck is even the discussion? Look, I am an NFL fan, but this kind of shit is inching me closer to giving it up, and I LOVE fantasy football.
The Dolphins, their coach, their medical team, and The Shield fucked up badly here.
Teams want to get ahead by risking the career and possible life of the young QB that has finally started to play well for a Week 3 game?
This is kind of where I am. You don’t need to be a neurologist to see the Sunday tape of Tua staggering around after his head slammed into the turf and think, “This dude is seriously concussed, I’m taking him out of the game.” This is the kind of stuff kids soccer coaches are now trained to spot and act on. So if youth coaches can manage this responsibility, why are we expecting less of professionals?
This actually feels most similar to Shanahan running RG3 out in the playoffs when it was clear to everyone watching TV the guy was seriously injured. It pretty much ruined his career and the franchise for the next decade given how much they gave up for him. I’m sure the medical staff cleared him, too. Doesn’t make Shanahan any less responsible.
Here’s hoping Tua’s story ends better than Griffin’s did.
McDaniel is the head coach of the team. He’s responsible for who plays and who doesn’t. Medically cleared does not mean suitable to play. Your hypothetical neurologist has no role in playcalling, but it is literally McDaniel’s job to decide who steps foot on the field.
Particularly when virtually everyone in the country watching last Sunday observed that Tua smacked his head on the ground and could barely walk after. No, I’m not a doctor and neither is most of the chattering class. But this isn’t a 20/20 hindsight situation: Many fans, players, and yes neurologists were saying Tua shouldn’t play *before* the game. The team doctors are hardly independent.
If you need evidence that McDaniel knew Tua wasn’t fine tonight, look no further than the fact that they activated their third QB for the first time all season. Probably because Tua had a sore back, I guess. The scene tonight was surely isolated and coincidental.
I know extremely little about concussions. Is it really impossible Tua wasn’t concussed on Sunday? Because people here claim it as a certainty, but that means either the doctors are incompetent, the doctors lied to the coach, or the coach forced the doctors to lie. Are any of those more likely than him actually having had back spasms? (Asking genuinely, my medical knowledge is close to zero)
it seems the hit tonight was enough to cause a concussion regardless, and we fencing response with Donald Parnham last year even tho he didn’t have a recent concussion
it seems the hit tonight was enough to cause a concussion regardless, and we fencing response with Donald Parnham last year even tho he didn’t have a recent concussion
Yes. They do. The franchise is 3-0 and feeling itself in primetime.
This isn't hard. They absofuckinglutely fucked up by playing Tua last week and even moreso tonight.
Sorry. I know you don't want to read this but it sucks.
I posted this elsewhere:
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/week-4-game-thread.37624/post-5193805
Concussions aren't to be fucked with. And the Dolphins fucked with them tonight.
You know what drives me crazy about all of this? I mean, other than the obvious? The Dolphins have probably the most capable QB in the NFL in Teddy. This entire thing was an ego move by the franchise, the coach, and frankly by Tua himself. It was just dumber than dumb. Even if an independent doctor told them "no", their own direction was clear.
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Why do i feel that it will either take
A: a player (an active player) dying due to head trauma
Or
B
Government intervention (ala mlb and steroids)
For the NFL to actually start to give a shit about player safety over $$$$.
Also. Whats going to happen to the NFL when science advances to the point where we can test for CTE in living people?
A: a player (an active player) dying due to head trauma
Or
B
Government intervention (ala mlb and steroids)
For the NFL to actually start to give a shit about player safety over $$$$.
Also. Whats going to happen to the NFL when science advances to the point where we can test for CTE in living people?
I really hope whatever investigation, if we can call it that, that’s happening actually gets to the bottom off this and steps are taken to improve the process. These games just aren’t worth what they are costing the players. I would also love to see the NFLPA band together and really change the culture on head injuries; when in doubt, sit out and get well, fight another day.
I’d say the visual evidence last week makes it virtually certain that was a head injury, not back spasms. But, in order to protect themselves, the Dolphins/league really needed him to play again tonight. Otherwise, they admit they were wrong last week.
People keep bringing up the independent doctor, but as I understand it, those doctors are only called in if the team doctor first declares it a concussion. The NFL I’m sure would have liked nothing better than for this to have passed by, but I do wonder now if the PR issue is enough they’ll have to call in Ted Wells and throw someone under the bus to protect the greater good.
You have an issue with the independent neurologist and the team medical staff.
I’m not defending what happened. Certainly it seemed odd to plenty of medical and non medical people from the outside, and maybe some people should be fired.
But head coaches don’t medically clear players and it would honestly be weird if they started playing doctor and deciding who should or should not be medically cleared to play.
Then I guess, in the year 2022, I’m expecting more of an NFL head coach than a craven pursuit of the next game at the *obvious* expense of a young man’s health. Perhaps that makes me idealistic, but people are going to stop watching this garbage. The league needs to evolve.
(And believe me, I know what the ratings say currently — I lead a brand that advertises during NFL games.)
I guess McDaniels could have gone to the owner and said he didn’t trust the medical staff and asked for a second opinion? Even that’s a stretch.
I know went to Yale and seems sharp, but it’s nonsensical to expect the coach to make medical decisions.
Nobody is saying that coaches should be deciding who should be medically cleared to play.
Some are saying that coaches have the ability to sit a guy because they can. It happens in plenty of other sports. Guys get rest days because it's better long-term for the team, even if no doctor has ruled a guy out.
They could have said that his back was tight and they're not taking any chances, and Teddy is a great backup and blah blah. Coach is (was) 3-0 and a new hire. The sword of Damocles wasn't hanging over his chair right now.
I think this would put coaches in a very difficult position, but there have to be exceptions in egregious cases. And it would be a norm not a rule in any case. It also doesn’t have to be limited to head injuries. I would say putting Brendan Herbert out there last week was also a failure by the coach to put the long term health of the player—and the long term chances of the team—ahead of a single game. Same goes for the RGIII issues in Washington, etc.
Guys get rest days in sports where they're playing 5x the games they do in the NFL. No one in the NFL gets "rested"; you're healthy enough to play or you aren't.
This is on the doctors who said Tua was healthy.
Starting quarterbacks don’t get rest days. We’re not talking about NBA style load management or giving a guy off the 2nd game of a double header.
If the head coach is told by the medical staff and an independent neurologist that a player didn’t have a concussion, is cleared to play, and the player wants to play…. I don’t see what anyone could reasonably expect.
The situation in general seems sketchy and I also don’t get how Tua’s stumbling around didn’t raise concussion flags on Sunday…. But people calling for McDaniels’ head are barking up the wrong tree.
It doesn't necessarily have to be nefarious. There are other possibilities. For example, the testing is insufficient and a player can pass when they're actually concussed. I said upthread that there likely needs to be a higher level of scrutiny when a player exhibits obvious concussion symptoms on the field. Look, everyone watching the NFL on Sunday could tell that Tua shouldn't have gone back out there, and a very small percentage of the audience was doctors. It was that obvious. I don't care what happened inside that tent.
Or this:
ill be internet guy and discuss a medical issue from my own experience.
I was seriously concussed when a light fixture fell on my head when I was 22.
the most memorable symptoms were hyper sensitivity to sound, light, and motion. These all made me nauseous, brought on headache, and made me burst into tears. Took 4-5 days to clear up.
I can’t imagine a worse thing to do to a concussed person than take them through an airport and pit them on a plane. He needs to sit in a dark and quiet place for a few days.
Unfortunately, the occurrence of A is no guarantee that the NFL would start caring.
Not specific to this incident or the NFL even but I know a doctor who was involved in international Rugby Union and he told me that the baseline concussion tests that were used were easily manipulated by teams/players.
Basically the player does a cognitive test pre season and subsequent tests are based off this. He said the players would set those tests at such a low bar that it was easy to pass a HIA (Head Injury Assessment) during the season.
I think I agree.
I would expect a high-school coach to keep Tua out of Sunday’s game under these circumstances, no matter what a medical professional said, especially if that professional didn’t necessarily see what the coach did. (Assuming, hypothetically, there was a neurologist at the game, which of course there normally wouldn’t be.)
But this is the NFL, and after all we’ve seen over the years, I think it’s emphatically a good thing that a young coach like McDaniel thinks medical decisions are someone else’s call and stays the hell out of that lane. If whoever evaluated Tua didn’t see the video we all did, that’s not on McDaniel.