2023-24 Celtics

radsoxfan

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Post game techs + fines escalating with each infraction is what I'd like to see.
Flopping happens a lot and I'm all for trying to minimize it... but I agree post game confirmation with fines/techs makes a lot more sense to me.

The refs are just not capable of telling consistently real time (if they were, this wouldn't be a problem in the first place!!).

Don't give the refs more to think about, more responsibility, and more chance to decide the outcome of games. The game is hard enough to officiate as it is, and the refs are already struggling to do a decent job.

I think it's more likely to turn into a mess than stop the flopping.
 

Montana Fan

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For flop reviews with a monitor ref, is there even a reason to stop the game until the call is made and there is a stoppage? Set up 2 lights (one for the home team, one away) or something so everyone knows a T is coming (and who it is on) at the next stoppage.
This is the best solution I’ve seen yet. It captures the penalty and does not disrupt the game flow.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Flopping happens a lot and I'm all for trying to minimize it... but I agree post game confirmation with fines/techs makes a lot more sense to me.

The refs are just not capable of telling consistently real time (if they were, this wouldn't be a problem in the first place!!).

Don't give the refs more to think about, more responsibility, and more chance to decide the outcome of games. The game is hard enough to officiate as it is, and the refs are already struggling to do a decent job.

I think it's more likely to turn into a mess than stop the flopping.
This is where I am, putting any more subjective calls into the hands of the game refs reeks of a disaster waiting to happen.

Yesterday, early in the game, there was a play in which Randle had the ball in the paint, and I forget if it was White or Jrue that took what looked to be a charge and fell backwards. There was no whistle (I thought it should have been a charge), they played on, no harm no foul.

Now, if there was no charge, and White/Jrue go flying like that, wouldn't that mean it has to be a flop? What else could it be?

How many times have we heard over the last few years that if a defender doesn't go down (ie. Grant Williams bodying a guy up on defense in the post, or Smart), no call will be made. But now, if they go down and no call is made, it is probably going to be a technical on them?

I get wanting to legislate the head snaps out of the game, but IMO, this flopping rule will have a terrible effect on the defensive side of the ball. It's much easier to call flopping on offense, but on defense, it's going to be a disaster, and it's going to happen in some huge moment in some huge game in April or May, and people are going to lose their fucking minds.
 

slamminsammya

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This is where I am, putting any more subjective calls into the hands of the game refs reeks of a disaster waiting to happen.

Yesterday, early in the game, there was a play in which Randle had the ball in the paint, and I forget if it was White or Jrue that took what looked to be a charge and fell backwards. There was no whistle (I thought it should have been a charge), they played on, no harm no foul.

Now, if there was no charge, and White/Jrue go flying like that, wouldn't that mean it has to be a flop? What else could it be?

How many times have we heard over the last few years that if a defender doesn't go down (ie. Grant Williams bodying a guy up on defense in the post, or Smart), no call will be made. But now, if they go down and no call is made, it is probably going to be a technical on them?

I get wanting to legislate the head snaps out of the game, but IMO, this flopping rule will have a terrible effect on the defensive side of the ball. It's much easier to call flopping on offense, but on defense, it's going to be a disaster, and it's going to happen in some huge moment in some huge game in April or May, and people are going to lose their fucking minds.
the inability to call every flop may be frustrating but again you don't need 100% recall to sufficiently disincentivize flopping to the point where it disappears.
 

Deathofthebambino

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the inability to call every flop may be frustrating but again you don't need 100% recall to sufficiently disincentivize flopping to the point where it disappears.
So we're just eliminating the "if you don't fall down, you won't get the call rule" that has been in place for years? If Holiday is defending a big body down low, and the guy is just dropping his shoulder into Holiday, but Holiday is strong enough to withstand it, he now has to either take that shit and never get the call, or risk going down and getting called for flopping?

Flopping is not disappearing. We've had rules, including fines on the books since 2012-13 (unless it was terminated, which I can't confirm) and it's done nothing. Is a potential for one point on a technical going to change much or just lead to more inconsistency and a complete mess of the viewing experience? I think it'll be the latter:

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1365517-how-new-flopping-rules-will-affect-nba-offenses-and-defenses
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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James Harden is IRATE that you won't give him any credit for his move. He's already asked to sit out the next Boston game no matter who he plays for so he doesn't have to put up with this type of negativity and hating.

(In all honesty, they both do it so frequently, I'll call it the Trames Youden)
Lol. This seems like a solid compromise. Harden is for sure a master of the form.
 

slamminsammya

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Flopping is not disappearing. We've had rules, including fines on the books since 2012-13 (unless it was terminated, which I can't confirm) and it's done nothing. Is a potential for one point on a technical going to change much
Yes. these guys are competitive and make a shit load of money, which is why a technical free throw will have more impact than a fine of 15k or whatever it was.
 

Ed Hillel

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James Harden is IRATE that you won't give him any credit for his move. He's already asked to sit out the next Boston game no matter who he plays for so he doesn't have to put up with this type of negativity and hating.

(In all honesty, they both do it so frequently, I'll call it the Trames Youden)
Let's be fair, Captain Wheelchair had his moments with this one...
 

Ed Hillel

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As to the Celtics of nowadays, the starting lineup is completely insane, but I really hope we aren't seeing lineups with Pritchard/Hauser/Kornet for significant stretches this year. I'd like to see at least one of the G League talents work their way up and take some of these minutes. Or Queta.
 

SteveF

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Jrue, JT, JB, and DW didn't exactly do much to create the offensive environment within which the bench guys could comfortably perform their roles. Most of that is unfamiliarity. A problem with a 5 out offense is the stagnation. You don't want 5 guys standing around outside the 3 point line in that offense. You always want some weakside screening action, guys cutting through the paint, and generally moving and making themselves available for passes. But, as an example, you probably don't want two guys cutting through the paint. So there's some mental telepathy involved. Are you gonna cut? Should I cut? And so nobody cuts. That kind of mutual understanding will take some time to develop.

The defense was encouraging. Jrue is an upgrade over Smart and he made Randle's life unpleasant. I thought Jaylen was generally decent on Brunson but for a few poor decisions off ball (he is what he is). JB did a decent job getting over screens. Hopefully he keeps up the defensive effort when he isn't getting as much opportunity on offense.

Initially I was thinking you want either Jrue or Tatum on the floor at all times (staggering Brown and Tatum goes without saying), but I think maybe the right answer is you want Porzingis or Tatum on the floor at all times. Porzingis can really enhance JB if he makes good use of him. Porzingis will create the space on screening actions for JB to attack without turning into a turnover machine. JB will just need to make the right play out of that. The reads shouldn't be all that difficult.
 

nighthob

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I don't understand anyone who watched that interaction and doesn't think that Hartenstein embellished his reaction to the contact. When DiVincenzo pushed off on Porzingis at the other end with his extended elbow, the latter got a flop tech for obvious exaggeration. Both were physical contact with obvious flops. Call it or don't call it.

I'm on team nighthob that it would be better to enforce post facto.
I mean one minute Hartenstein has 'Zingis in a full bear hug with his face right on the ball and the next he's windmilling his arms as he launches himself airborne. It was hilariously obvious. But definitely not a call that the refs should be worrying themselves over. This is a multibillion dollar league, hire some people to watch the footage after and assess flopping techs. The ifrst time any player reaches 16 is the day that flopping comes to an end.
 

DGreenwood

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So we're just eliminating the "if you don't fall down, you won't get the call rule" that has been in place for years? If Holiday is defending a big body down low, and the guy is just dropping his shoulder into Holiday, but Holiday is strong enough to withstand it, he now has to either take that shit and never get the call, or risk going down and getting called for flopping?

Flopping is not disappearing. We've had rules, including fines on the books since 2012-13 (unless it was terminated, which I can't confirm) and it's done nothing. Is a potential for one point on a technical going to change much or just lead to more inconsistency and a complete mess of the viewing experience? I think it'll be the latter:

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1365517-how-new-flopping-rules-will-affect-nba-offenses-and-defenses
Holiday had a play last night where Randle was backing him down, gave Holiday a good bump in the chest, and Holiday went down. Holiday did not get the charge call but they didn't call a flop either (correctly because there was real contact, just not enough for the charge apparently). I think they are targeting the true phantom exaggerations.
 

nighthob

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Let's be fair, Captain Wheelchair had his moments with this one...
People keep saying this and forgetting that Pierce literally injured his meniscus on that play and had offseason surgery to correct it. Please stop repeating Laker fans' bitching, it's embarrassing.
 

nighthob

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Holiday had a play last night where Randle was backing him down, gave Holiday a good bump in the chest, and Holiday went down. Holiday did not get the charge call but they didn't call a flop either (correctly because there was real contact, just not enough for the charge apparently). I think they are targeting the true phantom exaggerations.
I think people fundamentally just don't understand what flopping is. The way to take a charge is to absorb the contact and not resist. If someone's hitting you hard, you go down. That's not a flop, that's just the proper technique. The flopping comes when no one's making hard contact and you go flying through the air like you've been shot by multiple snipers.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Holiday had a play last night where Randle was backing him down, gave Holiday a good bump in the chest, and Holiday went down. Holiday did not get the charge call but they didn't call a flop either (correctly because there was real contact, just not enough for the charge apparently). I think they are targeting the true phantom exaggerations.
Yup, I brought up that play in my prior post, which is what led to me to this thread. IMO, if that's not a charge, it's a flop. That play is the epitome of it can't be neither. A play on, with a guy flailing and going down, is IMO, a definition of a flop (frankly, I thought it was a charge), and that is the specific type of play on defense that I have no idea how it is going to get called throughout the year.

Like I said, there has been a flopping rule in the NBA for a decade, with escalating fines, and on the 6th offense, a possible suspension. It's done nothing to change the amount of flopping. But at least with that, it also didn't have an effect on games themselves. It was a post-game review in which the league issued the fines. They literally issued fines a total of 32 times between 2012-2020. In 2020, they only issued one fine the entire season for $5,000 to, you guessed it, Marcus Smart. They didn't issue any in 2021 or 2022.

If the NBA thought it was a big enough issue to fix, why not try to actually enforce the rule they implemented previously? We literally had more flopping calls yesterday in the NBA than we've had fines given out since 2015. Does the NBA want not be the bad guy, or worry about a fight with the union, or do they want to make their refs the bad guys?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/fines-suspensions/all-years/fines/flopping/


I just couldn't hate this idea any more.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think people fundamentally just don't understand what flopping is. The way to take a charge is to absorb the contact and not resist. If someone's hitting you hard, you go down. That's not a flop, that's just the proper technique. The flopping comes when no one's making hard contact and you go flying through the air like you've been shot by multiple snipers.
Then why isn't that a charge? Fast forward to 33 seconds. Is this a charge or a flop? It can't be neither under these rules, can it?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJy_x_NA03Y
 

tims4wins

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I mean that has to be a charge based on the arm extension. I don't how how they didn't call that. Forget how Jrue reacts.
 

nighthob

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Then why isn't that a charge? Fast forward to 33 seconds. Is this a charge or a flop? It can't be neither under these rules, can it?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJy_x_NA03Y
That's proper technique by Holiday, and I'd agree with you about it being a charge. The refs clearly didn't think it was a charge, nor a block (which would be the appropriate other call). It clearly wasn't a flop as it was the proper technique for absorbing contact.
 

Euclis20

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Yup, I brought up that play in my prior post, which is what led to me to this thread. IMO, if that's not a charge, it's a flop. That play is the epitome of it can't be neither. A play on, with a guy flailing and going down, is IMO, a definition of a flop (frankly, I thought it was a charge), and that is the specific type of play on defense that I have no idea how it is going to get called throughout the year.

Like I said, there has been a flopping rule in the NBA for a decade, with escalating fines, and on the 6th offense, a possible suspension. It's done nothing to change the amount of flopping. But at least with that, it also didn't have an effect on games themselves. It was a post-game review in which the league issued the fines. They literally issued fines a total of 32 times between 2012-2020. In 2020, they only issued one fine the entire season for $5,000 to, you guessed it, Marcus Smart. They didn't issue any in 2021 or 2022.

If the NBA thought it was a big enough issue to fix, why not try to actually enforce the rule they implemented previously? We literally had more flopping calls yesterday in the NBA than we've had fines given out since 2015. Does the NBA want not be the bad guy, or worry about a fight with the union, or do they want to make their refs the bad guys?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/fines-suspensions/all-years/fines/flopping/


I just couldn't hate this idea any more.
I disagree with the bolded. There's a difference between taking a hit and embellishing/exaggerating the contact (what Holiday did) and jerking your head back and falling over when an elbow swings right by your face but misses it entirely. The latter is a flop, and absolutely should be given a tech under the new rules. The former can be a foul on someone (either party) if the contact is illegal, or it can be a no call if the contact is incidental. I'm ok with the difference.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Right. I think it's a charge, but a no-call there isn't inconsistent with the rules. Clearly Holiday thought it was a charge. Going down when you get hit hard like that is the right play, the refs just didn't think that the contact rose to the level of a charge. It doesn't have to be a flop for that to be the case. In fact, I think that adjudicating it that way - it's either a charge or a flop - would make it almost impossible to play defense. There has to be some middle ground there, because not all legitimate contact is going to be called a charge.

There's plenty of other, bad-faith, clearly intentional exaggeration of contact to focus on if you're going to go after flopping in the league. That's the stuff that should be in play, not the block-charge calls, which are already tough enough.

For what it's worth, I thought the Brunson play where he clearly landed on Tatum's foot was a bad call too. If you go straight up with your jumper and come down on another guy's foot, that's a foul, period, and probably a flagrant. Whether he exaggerated the landing wasn't really the point, and I think it's a natural reaction when you feel yourself come down on a foot to immediately shift your weight to the other side to avoid injury.
 

Deathofthebambino

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That's proper technique by Holiday, and I'd agree with you about it being a charge. The refs clearly didn't think it was a charge, nor a block (which would be the appropriate other call). It clearly wasn't a flop as it was the proper technique for absorbing contact.
I agree it's proper technique by Holiday and should have been a charge.

But here's what the NBA is saying about these flopping calls:

That’s where the STEM acronym comes in. Initial reactions to contact – getting bumped backwards by an offensive player in the post or flinching/reacting to a tap in the face – won’t merit a call. But secondary reactions to “sell” the contact to the game officials and the fans might.

“We don’t think there’s going to be a ton of these being called, because of what it is we’re targeting,” said Monty McCutchen, the NBA’s senior vice president, head of referee development and training. “The vast majority of plays that we think are enhancements or embellishments will still be no-calls, the way we do it now. But we want to get rid of the egregious, overt, over-the-top examples.”

Now, if that's not a charge, and it's not a flop because it wasn't an egregious, overt, over the top example, tell me how this one was egregious and deserved a call when the Knick player clearly makes contact with Porzingis and clearly extends his arm the same way, if not more, than what Randle did?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4DNSmLut0


This subjective enforcement in October is not an issue. Nobody gives too much of a shit right now, but unless they just stop calling it (as they did with the old flopping rule), it's going to become an issue (and head snaps are not a flop per se either):

Now, I personally agree that Porzingis was a flop, and Randle was a charge, but I don't know how you can call one and not call the other a flop, when you don't call the charge.

Again, we'll see how this plays out, I'm just going on record now to say it's going to be fucking terrible.

For those hoping that Curry or Trae will start getting calls against them for that head snap and yell, umm, nope:


Head snapping back in reaction to impact with an opposing player? Nope, McCutchen said head snaps alone will not merit flopping whistles. Yelling as if the guy had stepped barefoot on a Lego in the middle of the night? Nope, that won’t do it either.

“Screaming will not factor into the decisions,” he said. “Do we think it’s going to be part of the theatrical and the exaggerated? Yeah, I do. There’s a visual component to this to our fans. The voices don’t pick up as much. So to try to regulate yelling and screaming, it wouldn’t translate to our fan bases very well, to be perfectly honest.”

In other words, it’s very rare that yelling is isolated from flailing, falling, reeling or rolling – that’s why movement is part of the STEM.

“Contact comes with [screaming] because they are trying to draw attention,” McCutchen said. “But I think we do a pretty good job – we don’t give in to [just] yelling a lot.”

https://www.nba.com/news/how-nba-referees-will-assess-new-flopping-violations
 

radsoxfan

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the inability to call every flop may be frustrating but again you don't need 100% recall to sufficiently disincentivize flopping to the point where it disappears.
If it happens so much, inevitably the refs are just going to arbitrarily call it when they feel like it.

They’re aren’t nearly good enough at calling fouls accurately and avoiding calling flops as it is, no reason to give them an extra tool in their tool box.

Even if 80% of the time they call it correctly, I don’t want the other team to get a free throw 20% of the time for no reason (or even worse, for an actual foul).

Let the league go through the tape carefully and come up with legit penalties for instances of 100% clear flopping after the fact. Suspend guys even if you want.

But don’t leave it up to some ref with a grudge and a crappy view across the court with a split second to decide.
 

slamminsammya

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it seems to me this is a disagreement on a matter of taste, in particular the tradeoff between aesthetics and fairness. I personally have developed quite a tolerance for shitty refereeing as a coping mechanism for watching so much NBA. I don't mind if we get more of that in exchange for reducing the amount of fakery I have to stomach.
 

luckiestman

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it seems to me this is a disagreement on a matter of taste, in particular the tradeoff between aesthetics and fairness. I personally have developed quite a tolerance for shitty refereeing as a coping mechanism for watching so much NBA. I don't mind if we get more of that in exchange for reducing the amount of fakery I have to stomach.

I am also hopeful. The soccer style flopping has to end. A couple missed calls is a small price to pay. Lebron James is practically superhuman and watching him act like he is moments away from death from a light touch on his face is ridiculous.
 

djbayko

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It was a missed call but it was also an obvious flop or embellishment. He steps on the defender with his left foot and then jumps off his right foot like he is trying out for the US Men’s Olympic Diving Team.
I’m not sure I’m willing to say it’s an obvious embellishment. When you feel your foot is landing on something, falling down and taking stress off of that foot is a great way to increase likelihood of avoiding injury. It just so happens that it also draws attention and has served a dual purpose (or solo purpose when they’re flat out flopping).

The guy was legitimately fouled. Give him a break.
 

luckiestman

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I’m not sure I’m willing to say it’s an obvious embellishment. When you feel your foot is landing on something, falling down and taking stress off of that foot is a great way to increase likelihood of avoiding injury.

The guy was legitimately fouled. Give him a break.

He was fouled, I do not disagree with that at all. He didn't just fall though. he kind of launched himself with his right foot.

View: https://twitter.com/LosRealAli/status/1717351923802935609?s=20
 

JakeRae

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For flop reviews with a monitor ref, is there even a reason to stop the game until the call is made and there is a stoppage? Set up 2 lights (one for the home team, one away) or something so everyone knows a T is coming (and who it is on) at the next stoppage.
I like this too. It's important to me that they go to the effort of stopping the flopping. But if they're going to do so, might as well do it in the least disruptive and most time-efficient way possible.

Also, Brunson was fouled, and maaaaybe that was a natural reaction, but either way Zinger deserved his. Not that you couldn't have called another one on a Knick a half dozen different times.
 

chilidawg

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Could we break out the tech discussion?
2nd this.

Good article from Brian Robb on late game adjustments made by Joe M. to get the win last night.

Execution in crunch time was a big key and that included some important strides from Mazzulla who has already shown a better willingness to adapt than we saw for much of last season.

After endless groans from observers last season about White seeing the bench in countless crunch-time moments, there was no doubt he would be on the floor as a starter this year in those moments. Mazzulla went beyond that though with his versatile guard, letting him initiate multiple possessions offensively in crunch time. The results were positive as White stopped a 6-0 Knicks run with a pair of free throws coming out of his four minute timeout and got the ball to Tatum in a good spot next time down the floor, which led to a Jrue Holiday backcut layup a possession later. Boston was far too predictable last year in these spots but getting Whit
e involved led to better opportunities and less predictability than Tatum dribbling the ball into trouble or running a two-man game with Marcus Smart.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/10/joe-mazzulla-shows-critical-evolution-in-celtics-win-over-knicks-robb.html?utm_campaign=celtics_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR06H9KpbAjdP22wxn37WtX59R8aDmfpvM67vce-t-mp7WAVLXGVLyGZWDw
 

benhogan

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2nd this.

Good article from Brian Robb on late game adjustments made by Joe M. to get the win last night.

Execution in crunch time was a big key and that included some important strides from Mazzulla who has already shown a better willingness to adapt than we saw for much of last season.

After endless groans from observers last season about White seeing the bench in countless crunch-time moments, there was no doubt he would be on the floor as a starter this year in those moments. Mazzulla went beyond that though with his versatile guard, letting him initiate multiple possessions offensively in crunch time. The results were positive as White stopped a 6-0 Knicks run with a pair of free throws coming out of his four minute timeout and got the ball to Tatum in a good spot next time down the floor, which led to a Jrue Holiday backcut layup a possession later. Boston was far too predictable last year in these spots but getting Whit
e involved led to better opportunities and less predictability than Tatum dribbling the ball into trouble or running a two-man game with Marcus Smart.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/10/joe-mazzulla-shows-critical-evolution-in-celtics-win-over-knicks-robb.html?utm_campaign=celtics_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR06H9KpbAjdP22wxn37WtX59R8aDmfpvM67vce-t-mp7WAVLXGVLyGZWDw
CJM mixing up White, Jrue and Tatum crunch-time initiation during the regular season is the kind of Coaching growth I was hoping for.

After using it in the pre-season, I was expecting some full-court press last night to speed up the tempo
 

TripleOT

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Here is how I would adjudicate flopping. If the play looks like something Manu Ginobili would have done, it’s flopping.

I hope NBA referees continue to call technicals on flopping. If they stay consistent, players will adjust.

Regarding the Porziņģis flop, DiVincenzo put a face guarding blockout on him, which is usually an automatic foul. The refs chose not to call it, and Porziņģis, trying to bring attention to it by falling down like he was shot in the head was something that might have worked last year. Not only did the Celtics lose a potential possession, but they also could have given up a point.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I like this too. It's important to me that they go to the effort of stopping the flopping. But if they're going to do so, might as well do it in the least disruptive and most time-efficient way possible.

Also, Brunson was fouled, and maaaaybe that was a natural reaction, but either way Zinger deserved his. Not that you couldn't have called another one on a Knick a half dozen different times.
I think the refs are looking at body parts wildly swinging, which was the case for KP and Brunson (his leg shoots up, which doesn't seem natural) and was not the case for Jrue (who just went down).

But the only consistent thing about STEM will be its inconsistency. I just hope it doesn't decide an important game.
 

BaseballJones

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Holiday had a play last night where Randle was backing him down, gave Holiday a good bump in the chest, and Holiday went down. Holiday did not get the charge call but they didn't call a flop either (correctly because there was real contact, just not enough for the charge apparently). I think they are targeting the true phantom exaggerations.
If the shoulder drive into a defender is hard enough for the defender to literally be knocked on his ass, that absolutely needs to be an offensive foul (assuming the defender had the position). And if it wasn't hard enough for the defender to go down, and he went down anyway, it should be called for embellishment/flop. But a legit shoulder drive to put the guy down? Uh....yeah, 100% should be a foul.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
44,231
Here
People keep saying this and forgetting that Pierce literally injured his meniscus on that play and had offseason surgery to correct it. Please stop repeating Laker fans' bitching, it's embarrassing.
Dude, it was a joke. Pierce definitely was guilty quite often of the head jerk, though.
 

jasail

Member
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Apr 23, 2010
1,190
Boston
Couple random thoughts and knee jerk reactions to a very large sample size of one game.

I think KP or JT should be on the floor at all times. KP is such a threat when screening for the ball handler that he should create opportunities for guys who handle the ball as well as the shooters stashed in the corner. Then JT for the fact he's an MVP caliber player who can step through or pass out double teams to score and create.

I don't love the 2-Big lineup with the bench. Having Kornet out there with Al or with KP produces some pretty ugly basketball. In fact, I'm growing more and more unimpressed with Kornet. He's fine depth, but I don't love him as the 3rd big. I think they are going to be looking outside the organization this winter.

Hauser has to make open looks or he has no business being out there. He did not make a great impression in the first game and the C's have a lot of other options for potential top bench wing.

I do not like it when Pritchard over penetrates. He does it a lot and it's no bueno. I would like to see him do it less frequently. Otherwise, he'll be a solid contributor as a third ballhandler.

I need JB to study old film of Rip Hamilton. The guy was a master of moving without the ball. If JB unlocked some Rip, he would be a monster with KP and JT around him.

I like DWhite initiating the crunch time offense. I don't know why exactly, but good things seem to happen.

They need to get into their offense quicker and with more intention. There were too many plays against the Knicks where they wasted the first half of the shot clock. I remember one down the stretch where they dribbled the air out of the ball until there were 8 seconds left, at which time they passed it JT and he tried to make a move before heaving up an ugly contested deep two. That's simply poor coaching and CJM has to fix that.
 

SteveF

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,047
I do not like it when Pritchard over penetrates.
He also picked up his dribble early before he knew what he was doing with the ball too many times. I don't mind the probing as long as he takes a cue from Steve Nash and keeps that dribble alive. The guy has a decent handle so I'm not sure why he picks the ball up as often as he does. A guy with point guard skills shouldn't be record scratching the offense as often as he did.
 

jasail

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
1,190
Boston
He also picked up his dribble early before he knew what he was doing with the ball too many times. I don't mind the probing as long as he takes a cue from Steve Nash and keeps that dribble alive. The guy has a decent handle so I'm not sure why he picks the ball up as often as he does. A guy with point guard skills shouldn't be record scratching the offense as often as he did.
That is exactly what I meant but failed to add. I'm posting like it's almost 4PM on a Friday...
 

SteveF

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,047
That is exactly what I meant but failed to add. I'm posting like it's almost 4PM on a Friday...
S'all good. You and I saw the game more or less the same way from reading your posts. It's like you're inside my head.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,783
He was fouled, I do not disagree with that at all. He didn't just fall though. he kind of launched himself with his right foot.

View: https://twitter.com/LosRealAli/status/1717351923802935609?s=20
Complaining about a flop call when:
1) The league/refs are just trying to discourage flopping, which is a tough task since you rarely can be 100% sure it is a flop;
2) It is game 1 of the experiment;
3) They also called a flop on the Celtics so it all evened out;
is pretty much whining for the sake of whining