2023-24 Celtics
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You mean Kyrie wasn't the best guy on the team to guard Giannis?
View: https://twitter.com/BrianTRobb/status/1125619963052662785?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1125619963052662785%7Ctwgr%5E0d94653a3015e5b0cae541001613fde4b012c2b5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bostonsportsjournal.com%2F2019%2F05%2F07%2Fkyrie-irvings-questionable-defensive-choices-left-celtics-exposed-game-4
I'd rather Brad trade for defense (4/5) before a Lonnie Walker type.
#1 AC is the Grand Prize. BUT too many bidders & CHI should just keep him.
#2 Tillman, brings a little nasty & playoff experience. Expiring contract on a team headed for the lottery. Beef Center that should be attainable for peanuts
#3 Konchar - Brad guy but Brissett is probably the better option for the 10th man role. Memphis may be more inclined to keep JK since he's cheap for multiple years
trade hierarchy:
#1 AC is the Grand Prize. BUT too many bidders & CHI should just keep him.
#2 Tillman, brings a little nasty & playoff experience. Expiring contract on a team headed for the lottery. Beef Center that should be attainable for peanuts
#3 Konchar - Brad guy but Brissett is probably the better option for the 10th man role. Memphis may be more inclined to keep JK since he's cheap for multiple years
Wait, so the Celtics are the only team in the league with a winning record when trailing at halftime? (Small sample size, of course.)
That's awesome. What is even more so is that the Celtics have been behind at the half a total of nine times all season. Wagon.
Enjoyed tonight's game. Indiana has a decent roster and played about as well as they can play. Didn't matter.
That kind of undersells it - Only Minnesota (9-11) and Denver (7-10) are even close to .500 when trailing at halftime, and only 4 teams have a better overall winning % (Milwaukee, Minnesota, Denver, OKC) than Boston does when trailing at halftime (.667). Crazy stuff.
It feels like the Celtics have kind of been treading water lately, but they're 8-2 over their last 10 have put more ground between them and the other top EC teams (and are 3+ games ahead in the loss column against the WC contenders):
View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1752527328360501471?s=20
Haliburton sat for a lot of the fourth I believe as he was on a minutes restriction, but Kornet and Horford being out for the Celts also changed the game quite a bit as well with the rebounding and second chance points.
That's what I kept telling myself when they were losing rebound after rebound. 15 games in 26 nights, most of it against good teams, is really tough. I thought the team did a good job bearing down from the end of the 3rd quarter and upping the defensive and rebounding effort. But I totally get why they might not have the legs to do that for 48 minutes.
Very mentally tough team, consistently impressed. If you only win when things go well wire-to-wire, that's called front-running. This team is the opposite of that.
The All-Star break can't come soon enough, but Milwaukee and Philly and slipping some now, so even a bad loss or two for the Cs pre-ASB wouldn't be the end of the world.
It's so funny that maximum "what's wrong with the Celtics???!!" freakout is happening during an 8-2 stretch.
For those last 15 games: as King said, 11-4 with a +9 net rating, 15 games in 26 nights.
8 home, 7 road, tons of back-and-forth travel.
Avg opponent winning %: .537. For comparison, the team with the hardest remaining schedule in the *whole league* is Portland, at .534 opponent win %.
When it comes to this team, optimism, not pessimism, has consistently been the realistic, sober analysis.
8 home, 7 road, tons of back-and-forth travel.
Avg opponent winning %: .537. For comparison, the team with the hardest remaining schedule in the *whole league* is Portland, at .534 opponent win %.
When it comes to this team, optimism, not pessimism, has consistently been the realistic, sober analysis.
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Back on my interest in the business side of the Celtics and the ability for the team to operate at a loss for the next several years to enable a potential muti-championship run:
It looks like Wyc is involved in the new group for the PGA, which means another cash outflow.
It looks like Wyc is involved in the new group for the PGA, which means another cash outflow.
No idea how much is cash vs debt, or the expected cash flows from this, but unlike Pagliuca my understanding is that Wyc is not super liquid, with most of his money tied up in the sports endeavors.
One of the responses to that thread (and no, it wasn't mine):
the wildest stat though: jaylen brown has 1 turnover the last 3 games
4 in the last 5 games
7 in the last 7
that’s big time
31 assists in those games vs 7 turnovers is a fat W
I'm going to take a wild guess that game thread references to Jaylen's weak handle is >31 over the last 7 games.
4.0 assists/2.5 TO per 36 now. Last year was 3.5/2.9.
There's a real chance Jaylen ends up as a 5 assist+ big wing in his prime, which would be a big deal, and very unexpected. I'm going to stop putting limits on expected improvement from him, even at age 27.
Nahh, hasn't been bad recently in the game threads at all. Probably because it's been clear to anyone with two eyes that he's playing some of the best basketball of his career (on both ends of the court) night in and night out.
Although, I imagine there will be a group of folks that have quietly disappeared who will show up when the opportunity arises.
I'm not really understanding the angle here, because the reason fewer people are criticizing Jaylen is that he has unexpectedly improved significantly with his decision-making, it doesn't imo negate the justification for past criticism and belief he wouldn't improve after years of doing the same thing over and over. If anything, wouldn't this level of play reinforce prior criticism? Seeing him play the game with the approach he has now is exactly why people were frustrated with him in the past. As we are seeing now, a lot of it was mental more than physical. He never needed to have elite handles, he just had to increase his court vision and take some of that offensive burden off himself. After a relatively poor start, he's been outstanding the past couple months. Obviously, having more talent helps and I'm sure makes Jaylen more comfortable moving the ball, but it's become increasingly clear that in the past Jaylen was a victim of his own tunnel vision.
Fair or not, however, ultimately Jaylen and the rest of the Celtics team, will be measured by how they perform in the playoffs. So if this team, or individual players, revert to its/their old ways, the entire offseason is going to be loud both nationally and regionally on both Brown and Tatum, as well as Joe. That's the nature of it.
Fair or not, however, ultimately Jaylen and the rest of the Celtics team, will be measured by how they perform in the playoffs. So if this team, or individual players, revert to its/their old ways, the entire offseason is going to be loud both nationally and regionally on both Brown and Tatum, as well as Joe. That's the nature of it.
I don't think it negates past criticism but it definitely negates the belief he wouldn't improve since he has improved. I think it especially negates it because it seems like the Miami game was a positive turning point while many here took it as proof positive that he would absolutely not improve.
Jaylen had a lot of doubters here (and elsewhere) and it looks like he is proving them wrong.
Like Pritchard, Jaylens flaws aren’t exposed in the regular season but in the postseason against constant pressure defense especially in the 4Q. I’m not sure those flaws, for either player, have dissipated despite the hope that they have improved enough to not jump off the screen at us this spring.
I'd say the difference is he's moving the ball, which we've never really seen like this at any point, regular or post season. I have much more confidence now than at any time before, he'd find the open man rather than take on 2-3 defenders in the postseason. We are still seeing too many Tatum isos late and close (including his terrible possession last night that ended in a fallaway 20 footer, followed by him forcing up a 3 off the rebound), but overall it's light years ahead of last year. Not as many possessions are being fucked away, and no more FULL MARCUS.
But we'll see in the postseason.
There was plenty of justification for people to believe that because he had repeatedly done the same thing for years and most 8 year pros don't improve in this manner at this stage of their careers, so kudos to him. But, again, the playoffs are the measuring stick for this team and everyone one it. Though, as I mentioned above, I am cautiously optimistic for the first time ever with him in this area of the game, including for the postseason.
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Which one are you betting on with Jaylen? That he regresses back to who he was against playoff defense, or that some of the offensive improvement is real?
(Not a rhetorical question)
I think Jaylen's flaws are still there. IMO, his game isn't entirely different than it was previously. The difference is the players around him. When you have KP and Jrue out there instead of Marcus and TL/Horford, it's a completely different situation than ever before. I do not believe that Jaylen and Marcus ever had a very good relationship, both on the floor and off. You can go back and look at the lineup numbers, and you can see clearly that when Jaylen was on the floor with Marcus but without Tatum or White, It wasn't good. At all.
The top 4 man lineup from last season was Tatum/Brown/Smart/Horford at over 800 minutes together. That group was a +1.4. Simply removing Smart from that group and replacing him with DWhite (a group with 717 minutes, 2nd most of any 4our man lineup), that number jumped to +11.7.
Jaylen is having his best year ever in terms of Assists, Turnovers, Turn%, and he's doing this on less 3's attempted, and much less usage. I believe he's making better decisions because he's trusting the guys around him more and because defenses can't load up on him the way they did previously whenever Jayson Tatum was off the floor. He doesn't need to be the #2 ball handler when Tatum goes to the bench anymore. He doesn't end up with grenades at the end of shot clocks because Marcus walked up the court for 10 seconds. He's not out there initiating PnR's with a guy that can't hit a 3 when the defenders collapse. He still has flaws, but unless Tatum rolls an ankle or KP gets hurt, I just don't think we see him get exposed in the playoffs like he did in Game 7 against Miami when he was forced into a role he's simply not good at. He doesn't need to be something he's not on this team.
And I still think people forget there is no Miami series, never mind a game 7 if Brown doesn't shoot 54% from the field and 47% from 3 in the first two series last year. It's easy to remember what happened in the Miami series, especially in game 7, but unless we see a rash of injuries, you won't see Jaylen Brown out there trying to initiate PnR's with Marcus/TL/Horford, where you have two guys that can't take a step back and hit a catch and shoot 3, and 2 guys who can't rim run.
I’d guess somewhere in the middle…..some improvement but still times when he still looks like Hansel Emmanuel.
I appreciate this. Please keep dropping links in this thread as the season goes on.
This is a good point. Jaylen absolutely plays smarter with smarter offensive players around him. White, Jrue, and especially KP have had an effect of leveling up his IQ. That won't change in the playoffs unless those guys aren't around. I loved Marcus, TL, and Grant, but those guys weren't offensive savants. The opposite really. Shouldn't be a surprise that savvy teammates have made JB more savvy.
That's not to say that increased playoff defense won't highlight some of his flaws more than regular season defense. That happens for pretty much everyone. But this hill that folks want to die on is based on bias formed years ago and won't be given up apparently.
Case in point. Forget the numbers that have been presented throughout this forum and let's go with "looks like".
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Great piece in the Athletic from Jared Weiss, looking at last night's win and the mentality Joe is trying to develop with the team.
Entitlement, Joe Mazzulla detests it. He knows when his team coasts to another easy win, everyone will think the coast is clear at the top of the league. They look up the standings and just see blue sky, instead of the rocky cliffs below the summit.
But you don’t dwell on the mountaintop. The air is too thin up there.
“When he said that, I saw that on Twitter — obviously, I didn’t play last game — but when he said that, that was so on point. I couldn’t agree more,” Porziņģis said. “Like, we are really good and we can win games without being 100 percent locked in. We can still win games, but that’s not what we’re trying to achieve. We want to be the best version of this team that we can be. And that’s why we need to lock in each and every game, each and every quarter, each and every possession, as long as we can.”
https://theathletic.com/5240187/2024/01/31/celtics-win-vs-pascal-siakam-pacers/
Straight into my veins.
Entitlement, Joe Mazzulla detests it. He knows when his team coasts to another easy win, everyone will think the coast is clear at the top of the league. They look up the standings and just see blue sky, instead of the rocky cliffs below the summit.
But you don’t dwell on the mountaintop. The air is too thin up there.
“When he said that, I saw that on Twitter — obviously, I didn’t play last game — but when he said that, that was so on point. I couldn’t agree more,” Porziņģis said. “Like, we are really good and we can win games without being 100 percent locked in. We can still win games, but that’s not what we’re trying to achieve. We want to be the best version of this team that we can be. And that’s why we need to lock in each and every game, each and every quarter, each and every possession, as long as we can.”
https://theathletic.com/5240187/2024/01/31/celtics-win-vs-pascal-siakam-pacers/
Straight into my veins.
Point me to a single number that is reflective to playoff level defense when a players flaws are exposed?
Nobody said that Jaylen is Magic Johnson with the ball now or in the playoffs. Plenty has been linked here that he has improved his vision and passing and is taking care of the ball better than he did before. He's doing certain things better, and the numbers support it. If you have insight that KP/JH/DW aren't available in the playoffs this year, then fine, let's expect the exact same guy. If not, then I'd expect a slightly better version of playoff JB than prior releases. That doesn't seem controversial.
Will be so nice when the Celts finally win one so that we can all put these 'but what about the playoffs' "arguments" to bed.
To add to this, my recollection of Jaylen's flaws being 'exposed' was that he was driving into double-triple teams -because- Miami was daring him to pass it to Smart and letting Smart shoot, or daring him to try to lob it up to a hobbled Time Lord. Not to mention that they can't really run a pick and roll with Smart (too inconsistent a shooter) or Tatum, because defenders could switch easily enough.
Or putting it that way, Jaylen's flaws got exposed -because- of Time Lord and Smart's flaws. So if Jaylen's improvement in passing and vision is because he has better receivers to go with his own play, is there really a reason to think that those flaws -will- be exposed in the playoffs without inconsistent-shooting Smart and hobbled Time Lord?
Personally, I think replacing Smart with White alone really changes things for Brown, let alone his bromance with Porzingis. Hell, the improved spacing alone should give Brown just a little more space than he was getting in the playoffs last year.
That’s precisely what I said….that he’s improved his ballhandling some and I expect him to be slightly better.
It's WILD watching Celtics highlights from last year's playoffs. The offense is so much worse spaced and less dynamic with both Smart and TL on the floor. This includes games they won by a lot: I'll post the highlights of the big run against the Sixers in game 7. Looks nothing like this year's team.
Huge huge credit to Brad for shaking up an overrated core and putting JT/JB/DW in better position to succeed.
View: https://youtu.be/vFCG_SYtVcs?si=sg4hh2uh0yLtQ6rJ
Horford did a great job on Embiid there.
I'd also expect Al to have a better playoffs with the extra rest/less wear-n-tear this season (career-low MPG)
It's even worse with Al on the floor like he was at the beginning of the video you posted. Al shot well but his release is, well, mechanical and when he was parked in the corner, his defender had one foot in the paint. Can't do that if Jrue is in the corner. Same with Marcus - teams were more than happy to sag off Marcus and see if he could beat them in big moments. As for TL, he provided vertical spacing but no one was guarding him more than 6 feet from the hoop. KP has to be guarded 26 feet from the hoop.
At the end of the day, JB and JT were always driving into traffic. Now they have way more space.
POBOS said when he made the KP trade that BOS was "too easy to guard." That isn't the case with this roster.
I imagine Brad was throwing up in his mouth watching the Philly and Miami series. It wasn't the fault of anyone on the staff or the team: the personnel just didn't work right, and there were too many emotional commitments to the exact guys causing the problem: Smart, TL, and Grant.
Speaking of Grant, we haven't even talked about how much better Hauser and PP are for spacing, even though the 3P%s were superficially similar. Hauser has a quick release against tight contests, and PP can drive closeouts much much more dangerously than Grant.
Wrt Al vs Jrue spacing: yes. Also, Jrue is much more dangerous moving around: he's a constant threat to cut to the dunker spot, or relocate to fill the slot above the break. You can't statically guard him as the low man.
Winning one doesn't magically make Jaylen's handle better. If they want to repeat they'll have to continually improve. For me as a fan if they win one I'm gonna want another.
Celtics talking aboit the change in approach
https://theathletic.com/5242581/2024/02/01/jaylen-brown-celtics-interview/
https://theathletic.com/5242581/2024/02/01/jaylen-brown-celtics-interview/
Yes to all of this.
With regards to Grant, seems like Hauser is playing as good as he did on defense and on offense, it is so much more helpful to have a movement shooter rather than a standstill shooter. While Grant's contract would have been nice to have right now (it's not my money), I don't think he would have been happy seeing his minutes dwindle to Brisset levels or below, so it's good that Brad moved him.
With regards to Jrue, I don't think people talk enough about how much he adds to the team schematically even if his numbers are down and even if it seems he loses the ball once a game. A sneaky great part of the acquisition was moving Jrue to the dunker's spot - because he's generally guarded by a small, he's not going to clog up the paint the same way TL did or Al would if he was there. Plus he can move quickly out to the corner, where he's shooting so well. He's also such a calming influence on the team and seems to come up with big baskets a lot of the time.
I also think Jrue's best defensive work will come in the playoffs when he can really go to work against one team - just like he wore down Booker and Paul in the Finals.
Great article. You'd almost think, listening to what the players say, that JM is a competent coach. Nah, couldn't be, cuz timeouts and all.
No, he's clearly unwilling to adjust when the team isn't hitting their shots despite generating good looks.
Never mind Spolestra having exactly the same problem in the Finals because, shockingly, his team didn't shoot historic levels from 3.
That was, and remains, an extremely moronic take on Mazzulla.
Another take, this one goes more into Stevens and Porzingis.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39433066/the-risky-move-unlocked-jayson-tatum-boston-celtics
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39433066/the-risky-move-unlocked-jayson-tatum-boston-celtics
It's great that CJM is openly discussing in-game mistakes and adjusting strategy. Growth
https://theathletic.com/5242581/2024/02/01/jaylen-brown-celtics-interview/
The Celtics haven’t always succeeded. After a November loss to Minnesota, during which the offense went missing, Mazzulla said he should have put Rudy Gobert into the action instead of spacing him out.
While falling to the Nuggets in January, the Celtics scored two points over the final four minutes and 50 seconds.
Denver used wings to defend Porziņģis for much of crunchtime. Mazzulla said later the team could have posted up the 7-foot-3 center more often that night. When the Rockets tried a similar strategy in Boston’s next game, the Celtics responded by dumping the ball to Porziņģis in the post and allowing him to steer the offense.
The lowest moments, of course, bring back memories of Boston’s recent playoff failures. Even the Celtics’ sparkling performance during “clutch” minutes — they are 15-8 in games with any clutch time, with the fourth-best offense and seventh-best defense in such situations — can’t quell the concerns they won’t be ready for the biggest postseason moments.
https://theathletic.com/5242581/2024/02/01/jaylen-brown-celtics-interview/
The Celtics haven’t always succeeded. After a November loss to Minnesota, during which the offense went missing, Mazzulla said he should have put Rudy Gobert into the action instead of spacing him out.
While falling to the Nuggets in January, the Celtics scored two points over the final four minutes and 50 seconds.
Denver used wings to defend Porziņģis for much of crunchtime. Mazzulla said later the team could have posted up the 7-foot-3 center more often that night. When the Rockets tried a similar strategy in Boston’s next game, the Celtics responded by dumping the ball to Porziņģis in the post and allowing him to steer the offense.
The lowest moments, of course, bring back memories of Boston’s recent playoff failures. Even the Celtics’ sparkling performance during “clutch” minutes — they are 15-8 in games with any clutch time, with the fourth-best offense and seventh-best defense in such situations — can’t quell the concerns they won’t be ready for the biggest postseason moments.
LOL. well played
February schedule is friendly.
3 Games against above .500 teams (@MIA, @NYK, Philly)
Tonight got a lot less interesting
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1753137520701849957
Woj: Anthony Davis and LeBron James are out vs. Celtics tonight, team says.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1753137520701849957
Woj: Anthony Davis and LeBron James are out vs. Celtics tonight, team says.
This is it - the focus on these areas is an acknowledgement from the team and Brown that he needed to improve… exactly what critical posters here were saying. I don’t even know what the argument otherwise could be anymore.
And the idea that posters would be happier if Brown fails is insane. Everyone here would be ecstatic if he kept up this level of play through the finals because it would mean the team is likely an NBA champion. He’s doing a great job this year - kudos to him. No one needs to eat crow for saying that he was a worse decision maker in past seasons.
AD out with an actual injury I'd buy, but LeBron? I thought the "too old " exemption only applied on B2Bs, which this wouldn't be.