7/6/2023 Texas @ Boston - Hot Dog! Nathan's Return
- Thread starter JohnnyTheBone
- Start date
Bill James just answered a question about this on his website (which is shutting down in a few months):
I don't quite understand what announcers and writers mean when they say that a pitcher "knows how to pitch." I understand that they mean changing speeds, throwing to locations, working good sequences, but hasn't that been the purview of the bench and/or catcher for almost a century? Isn't the pitcher just the enactor of the strategy, rather than its architect? And, if so, what can announcers now mean by that phrase?
Asked by: Michael P
Answered: 7/2/2023
Well. . .initial misunderstanding there blocks the understanding of what follows. The pitcher has always been in charge of what he chooses to throw and where he chooses to throw it. It's his game. The catcher makes suggestions. The pitcher and pitching coach have a plan going into the game, and the catcher outlines a path toward those goals, but it is up to the pitcher.
I once asked Joe Garagiola, an old catcher, how much difference it made how well the catcher called the game. "None whatsoever," he said. . . just his opinion, of course. "Or very, very little." I'm paraphrasing what he said 30 years ago, but as I recall, "When I was with the Cardinals, let's say it was 1-2 (count), I'd call a fastball outside, and Brecheen or Pollet would know that I meant to waste one away, see if he would chase it. Then I got traded to Pittsburgh, same situation, and I'd make the same call, and Murry Dickson or one of those kids, he'd throw it right down the middle for a double. And the manager would yell at my like it was my fault. Jesus, Man, you should have known I didn't mean to throw THAT."
In "The Bronx Zoo", Sparky Lyle says that when he was a rookie, he shook off a pitch from Elston Howard, Red Sox catcher, and gave up a big hit. Dick Williams (manager) yelled at him after the inning, and the pitching coach did as well, for not throwing what Elston had thought he should throw. But Elston took him aside and said "That's bullshit, man. It's your game. You've got to throw what you are comfortable throwing." And they worked out a secret signal, so that Sparky could shake him off and change the call without the manager or the pitching coach knowing anything about it.
***********************
What I gave you above was not a bad answer, but there is something there that I didn't get to, and it has been bothering me since I published this answer several days ago.
The scouts use the term "pitchability". They use it often and in regard to almost every pitcher; it's a common reference point, and the term overlaps with this discussion.
Pitchability or "knowing how to pitch" has SOMETHING to do with which pitch you throw when, but that's not essentiallly what it is about. It's a really easy thing to see in a pitcher, once you know what you are doing. What it is essentially about is the ability to read the situation and make small adjustments to react to it. It has to do with taking a mile or two (MPH) off of your slider to throw off the hitter's timing, for example. Not that easy to do; you reduce the velocity on your slider, it messes with the break, and you can wind up with a wild pitch. But some guys can do it; some guys can't. A few guys, like Saberhagen and King Felix and Catfish Hunter and Greinke. . .a few guys just seem to be born knowing how to do that. David Cone. Brayan Bello. Other guys don't figure out how to do that kind of thing until they are 30 and their fastball is gone.
It has to do with moving a pitch, or trying to move a pitch. . .moving a pitch 4-5 inches so that a hitter can't get to it. A hitter hits an outside pitch up the opposite field line for a double. Pitchability means that the next time he comes up, you throw him the same pitch but you move it about 3 inches further outside where he can't get it, but maybe he'll lunge at it because it looks like the pitch he hit last time. It is small adjustments within your game.
Just as I'm writing this, there was a fantastic example of it on the screen. Red Sox rookie David Hamilton, who looks like he might develop into something pretty good, is fouling off pitch after pitch against Kevin Gausman. After one two-strike foul on a fastball, he steps out of the box and makes a sweeping motion with his hands, which everybody knows means "I should have taken that pitch to the opposite field. I should have waited on that and hit it the other way." So the next pitch, Gausman throws him the same pitch, but moves it to the inside corner of the plate. If Hamilton had been looking to turn on that pitch he might have crushed it, but he was thinking opposite field, and if you see that pitch and your first thought is "opposite field", you've got no chance; you can't take an inside/below the belt pitch to the opposite field if you have extended your hands.
When Gausman was with the Orioles years ago, there is no way he would have picked that up and adjusted to it. But now, he's been around for years, he's just brilliant with that kind of stuff. He's now got a great fastball, several other pitches, AND pitchability.
What I'm hoping to explain. . . hope this doesn't come off as patronizing, and I apologize if it has. But what I'm trying to explain is that you've got an initial false assumption there that is blocking the development of your understandng of the issue. IFA (Initial False Assumptions) are the essence of political conflict; all disagreements are resolvable if you can lift the curtain created by the IFA.
Asked by: Michael P
Answered: 7/2/2023
Well. . .initial misunderstanding there blocks the understanding of what follows. The pitcher has always been in charge of what he chooses to throw and where he chooses to throw it. It's his game. The catcher makes suggestions. The pitcher and pitching coach have a plan going into the game, and the catcher outlines a path toward those goals, but it is up to the pitcher.
I once asked Joe Garagiola, an old catcher, how much difference it made how well the catcher called the game. "None whatsoever," he said. . . just his opinion, of course. "Or very, very little." I'm paraphrasing what he said 30 years ago, but as I recall, "When I was with the Cardinals, let's say it was 1-2 (count), I'd call a fastball outside, and Brecheen or Pollet would know that I meant to waste one away, see if he would chase it. Then I got traded to Pittsburgh, same situation, and I'd make the same call, and Murry Dickson or one of those kids, he'd throw it right down the middle for a double. And the manager would yell at my like it was my fault. Jesus, Man, you should have known I didn't mean to throw THAT."
In "The Bronx Zoo", Sparky Lyle says that when he was a rookie, he shook off a pitch from Elston Howard, Red Sox catcher, and gave up a big hit. Dick Williams (manager) yelled at him after the inning, and the pitching coach did as well, for not throwing what Elston had thought he should throw. But Elston took him aside and said "That's bullshit, man. It's your game. You've got to throw what you are comfortable throwing." And they worked out a secret signal, so that Sparky could shake him off and change the call without the manager or the pitching coach knowing anything about it.
***********************
What I gave you above was not a bad answer, but there is something there that I didn't get to, and it has been bothering me since I published this answer several days ago.
The scouts use the term "pitchability". They use it often and in regard to almost every pitcher; it's a common reference point, and the term overlaps with this discussion.
Pitchability or "knowing how to pitch" has SOMETHING to do with which pitch you throw when, but that's not essentiallly what it is about. It's a really easy thing to see in a pitcher, once you know what you are doing. What it is essentially about is the ability to read the situation and make small adjustments to react to it. It has to do with taking a mile or two (MPH) off of your slider to throw off the hitter's timing, for example. Not that easy to do; you reduce the velocity on your slider, it messes with the break, and you can wind up with a wild pitch. But some guys can do it; some guys can't. A few guys, like Saberhagen and King Felix and Catfish Hunter and Greinke. . .a few guys just seem to be born knowing how to do that. David Cone. Brayan Bello. Other guys don't figure out how to do that kind of thing until they are 30 and their fastball is gone.
It has to do with moving a pitch, or trying to move a pitch. . .moving a pitch 4-5 inches so that a hitter can't get to it. A hitter hits an outside pitch up the opposite field line for a double. Pitchability means that the next time he comes up, you throw him the same pitch but you move it about 3 inches further outside where he can't get it, but maybe he'll lunge at it because it looks like the pitch he hit last time. It is small adjustments within your game.
Just as I'm writing this, there was a fantastic example of it on the screen. Red Sox rookie David Hamilton, who looks like he might develop into something pretty good, is fouling off pitch after pitch against Kevin Gausman. After one two-strike foul on a fastball, he steps out of the box and makes a sweeping motion with his hands, which everybody knows means "I should have taken that pitch to the opposite field. I should have waited on that and hit it the other way." So the next pitch, Gausman throws him the same pitch, but moves it to the inside corner of the plate. If Hamilton had been looking to turn on that pitch he might have crushed it, but he was thinking opposite field, and if you see that pitch and your first thought is "opposite field", you've got no chance; you can't take an inside/below the belt pitch to the opposite field if you have extended your hands.
When Gausman was with the Orioles years ago, there is no way he would have picked that up and adjusted to it. But now, he's been around for years, he's just brilliant with that kind of stuff. He's now got a great fastball, several other pitches, AND pitchability.
What I'm hoping to explain. . . hope this doesn't come off as patronizing, and I apologize if it has. But what I'm trying to explain is that you've got an initial false assumption there that is blocking the development of your understandng of the issue. IFA (Initial False Assumptions) are the essence of political conflict; all disagreements are resolvable if you can lift the curtain created by the IFA.
Includes cool stories featuring Joe Garagiola, Sparky Lyle, Elston Howard, Kevin Gausman and mentions of our own Brayan Bello and Blizzard Hamilton.
Last edited:
Seriously, what are we going to do with Enrique? I guess there's nothing we can do. Just hope he comes out of it.
I suggest "WE" offer him to a team who needs a good defensive CF, if there is any one.
He’s almost 32 with a career line of 238/312/410. He’s had a few good years, and many that were worse. Who really knows.
With Hamilton leading off the bottom of the inning? No fucking way.One run in, tying run on second, go-ahead run at the plate.
Time to panic?
Duran playing CF, Story playing SS, and Kike not playing? Although, I’m not sure who would be playing 2B.
Cora saying they're working out Turner at 2nd suggests Enrique is on the DFA radar. (Can't imagine Arroyo over him)
American pronunciation of a French name. You see it a lot in New Hampshire with second/ third generation Quebecois.