Alex Van Pelt named Patriots OC
- Thread starter Dim13
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Let's move on to discussing something a little more forward-looking, like the Betts trade.
I am interested in seeing how Mayo lets AVP fill out his staff. Cleveland had a good offensive line last year that suffered through many injuries but motored on. Of course, they have Bill Callahan as the OL coach, who is very well-regarded. The offensive line coach is going to be a big hire. I am of the mind that if they don't believe fully in the QBs, I want Joe Alt in the first and the best tackle or WR available at 34.
Callahan is gone, they let him go today he's signing on his son's staff in TEN.
I was wondering the same. Is it typical for a coordinator to hire the position coaches or for that to be done by the HC?
I also think it might be interesting that there are multiple veteran FA QB's out there with experience with AVP: Mayfield, Brissett, and Flacco. I won't be at all surprised if one of them ends up on next year's Patriot roster as a vet backup. The former two might even serve as placeholders while a rookie QB gets his feet wet.
It depends, guys usually get a guy or two, but when the head coach is new and a defensive guy they might get to bring the whole staff.
I would really hope that AVP gets to hire his own staff. Hiring an experienced OC means Mayo gets to hand the keys over to him which should include his staff. Troy Brown is certainly replaceable, Vinny Sunseri could be off to UW, Klemm is dealing with health issues, and BOB's guy at TE coach is likely not coming back. There's an opportunity to wipe the slate clean and bring in coaches who are experienced coaching in what AVP is going to impliment.
They were also 10th best in the NFL in points per game and that's with 5 different QBs playing for them in a single season. Seems like a major feat to me.
I'm trying to look up what their avg starting field position on offense was, but striking out. Anybody know where to find that?
Don't forget they lost basically all their tackles and their backup tackles.
I know people here hate Breer and/or Zolak but both said this was a good move today, he should never have been let go from the Browns, the entire coaching staff of the Browns was against it, but because of the owner.
I literally didn't know AVP was even in the league so I have no opinion on this being good or bad, but I don't see how he's any worse than the latest hotshot from the McVay / Shanahan Coaching Tree with zero experience calling plays.
They needed someone on the main staff of OC/DC/Assistant Headcoach who has any idea how a team is run and AVP fits that. He could be a major disaster, but at least he's not another NEP in the family guy.
Ya this signing makes me pretty confident that they'll go with a QB using the 3rd pick or even trade up if that's a possibility. He has a history of developing QBs (including Rodgers) and seems to be the perfect coordinator to have for developing a young QB.
And that's honestly what I'm hoping for because running back Mac/Zappe again would be the definition of insanity and we can get a high potential WR with our pick in the early 2nd round. MHJ is hard to pass up but the last thing we need is a Lions type situation where you have an elite receiver like megatron with a shitty QB. It's a lot easier to find an awesome receiver with the 35th pick than it is to find a QB with the same pick.
It probably depends on the situation, but who would want to be an OC anywhere and not get input into the offensive coaches?
lol wut? What moves have I “sucked some Patriot dick” on? I don’t think I’ve commented on anything they have done since Mayo, but please enlighten me.
I think I was skeptical about the idea that teams were gonna be all over Belichick and that a bidding war was gonna ensue for him. Maybe that will still happen, I guess.
But hiring an experienced OC who will probably be here for awhile and not looking for the next job seems ok to me. Guess you don’t agree?
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The Patriots are almost definitely taking a QB at #3 - how often do you get a chance at one of the top 3 QBs in what is regarded, FWIW, as a three-QB draft class - and they are CERTAINLY not running back Mac or Zappe. That's just silly. This situation has laid out perfectly for them. A draft strong in QB, OT and WR for a team whose top three needs are QB, OT and WR?
I think we're overthinking all this, which, fine, we've got months to go and these threads aren't going to write themselves, but still. Unless something unforeseen occurs over the next few months, the Patriots first round pick is going to be Maye or Daniels.
I think we're overthinking all this, which, fine, we've got months to go and these threads aren't going to write themselves, but still. Unless something unforeseen occurs over the next few months, the Patriots first round pick is going to be Maye or Daniels.
It’s true, and last years offense went on to be a train wreck. I think there’s a long way between “sole hiring authority” and “you’ll take who we give you and like it” and last year with BOB was too close to the latter.
It seems to be a matter of dispute whether Daniels is on the same level as the other two and whether this is really a three-QB draft.
Yeah, but that's because Belichick never wanted BOB in the first place. It was reported he wanted to roll it back with Patricia until Kraft intervened. And then once he was brought on, Belichick wouldn't allow him any control of hires.
“According to league sources, some assistants came to believe O’Brien wanted to clean house and build his own offensive staff upon arriving in January, but Belichick denied him...Belichick allowed one hire, [Will] Lawing, who replaced ex-tight ends coach Nick Caley."
Sort of a unique situation and not one Mayo wants to replicate.To get AVP on board, I would think Mayo told him he would allow him some say in staffing decisions, especially since AVP has so many connections around the league.
This is a bit overblown. First, most offensive coordinators coming in do not get to hire their entire staff; usually at most 2-3 assistants are hired by the OC, while the rest are hired by the head coach, or retained from the previous season.
Second, the unverified reports stated that Bill wanted to keep Patricia, but was "forced" to hire an experienced replacement. Whether that was true or not is unknown, as the reporting is likely unreliable. In any event, Bill interviewed several candidates and decided upon Bill O'Brien.
"some assistants came to believe..." is doing some serious work.
The source for this story was probably BOB. And he was covering his own ass. There's enough smoke, however, to think that Bill did get territorial and rigid in his last few years in NE, which, paired with shit results and impatience from the Krafts, is why he's no longer here. It would have been very Belichickian for him to run Patricia back and have it be successful. But that was never going to happen in these circumstances.
Just what everyone wished for once BB was fired!
But seriously, they could do worse than the 2010s GB offensive staff. It's just that no one else in the league seems to be falling over themselves to hire these guys.
I don’t know. They need to make a clean break on offense, what they were doing was not working. There is no doubt in my mind that if BB brought these guys in to run the offense in 2022, we would have been happy.
Everyone was falling all over themselves for Ben Johnson as the next big thing that everyone would be fighting over for HC, including here. Then he couldn't even get the Commanders job and he reportedly didn't come out last year seriously because he knew he wasn't ready. At the same time arguing if we could get a 1st round pick for BB or if we'd have to give up #3 for Vrabel - both unemployed. The NFL Hot Stove of Coordinators and HC is complete nonsense.
I have no opinion on AVP but on paper he seems to fit a lot of the gaps of someone with experience, yet hasn't called plays much, but nearly everyone posted had no experience calling plays and a ton less experience. WIth no experience at HC, no experience at DC, I find it hard to argue with someone with experience at OC as the problem. As posted earlier, he seems to be a great clubhouse guy and he also led the offense this year of the Browns 5 QB's? and no tackles and they were still decent.
I'm in the optimist category on AVP. And I'd feel the same about MacAdoo coming on. I see the reasoning. But it's not Robinson or whoever else from the Shanahan/McVay/LaFleur/Johnson orbit they interviewed. Those guys would have generated more excitement. Of course it's no guarantee they would have delivered better results than AVP will. I'm happy it was not Caley because I think they needed this outside influence in any case.
Well AVP got other OC interviews a day or two before ours (Bucs, Raiders), seems like he might have taken a week off after getting fired to figure things out, took 3 interviews then the Pats decided not to let him leave without an offer which he accepted.
I know this has been addressed somewhat upthread but just to dig in a bit more, it feels like the NFL coaching market works similar to other areas of business where organizational fit and philosophy are huge factors in terms of who gets hired as well as where. Maybe you are right and nobody around the league is clamoring to hire them but it could just as easily be that they just aren't right for what a team is looking to do or perhaps the HC just doesn't like them personally etc etc.
I think you are being quite gracious to other businesses. Given the (lack of) recent success of many of these organizations I would translate fit as self preservation at management level which often exists in many struggling businesses.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Pats bring in Sean Ryan as QB coach or another developmental role. He had a low-level position at South Carolina last year. He was OBJ's WR coach at NYG and Watson's QB coach at HOU. He's got McAdoo/AVP connections.
Joe Dailey wouldn't surprise me as an assistant as he's got the same connections having served as WR coach in CAR. James Campen would be a OL coach name. He was in GB from 07-17 but is currently coaching OL in CAR. Less likely he leaves in a lateral move, but those sometimes happen.
Joe Dailey wouldn't surprise me as an assistant as he's got the same connections having served as WR coach in CAR. James Campen would be a OL coach name. He was in GB from 07-17 but is currently coaching OL in CAR. Less likely he leaves in a lateral move, but those sometimes happen.
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Well even if it was her as OC. Better then Special Teams. I dont trust her with the kicking game.
You'd have to save the "pulling the ball away at the last minute" fake FG for a crucial situation, like Shane Falco did.
Of course you'd need to have your kicker fall on his ass better.
And no doubt we'd have an OL penalty to negate it.
I agree and have had a good laugh at those trying everything they can dig up on AVP to convince themselves that he is the right guy for the job.
Personally i'm expecting a pretty rough season in 24 with the current roster and coaching staff...
Some folks were pretty psyched to have BoB here last year as a competent hand on the rudder too. Then BFB build an average OL if healthy who proceeded to then get injured, and Mac turned into Chicken Little.
Without the roster it doesn't much matter who the coach is. But AVPs resume doesn't strike me as some weird outlier for this job in a bad way. Do people think that he's not qualified?
Most criticism I see of him is basically "well he's a long time coach not the shiny new toy" People like to get excited about the possibility that whichever young guy will be the next Mike McDaniel and bring some exciting offense. Same reason people continually fail to credit Mike McCarthy, despite him being one of the best offense builders in the league. Everyone was salivating over the hot new thing in Kellen Moore a year ago... then he left, wasn't very good and McCarthy took back over and the offense there was much better.
If AVP were 31 and wore skinny jeans and AF1s all we'd hear is about how amazing he was for getting Joe Flacco playing like he did, and how exciting it was to have one of the most aggressive downfield passing OCs coming in.
Makes sense. Your skinny jeans reference is not lost on me also.
Middle aged dude, looks more like he should be running a DND campaign than an offense. Probably a lot of it.
Yes if anything it was rather shocking to see CLE fire the OC of a team that made the playoffs despite losing their franchise QB and franchise RB to injury. Getting a team lead by Joe Flacco and Jerome Ford into the playoffs was quite the feat. The CLE offense by most measures was at least league average last year and better when you take out the games started by DTR and Walker.
Or maybe just looking at his resume and commenting on why The Patriots may have chosen him. What is there to "dig up"?
I don't see anyone here saying he was the "right guy". Hell, most didn't even know he was a candidate.
Also they lost both starting tackles for the year, one in week 2, one in week 9, and their top backup tackle also got injured.
Word from some of the insiders (Breer, Pellissero) was that the ownership/front office when over Stefanski's head to make the move because they were unhappy that Watson who they dumped a ton of picks and money into has not been as good as they hoped.
Much like a draft pick, it's hard to say any person was the "right guy" right away.
There's nothing to show me he was the "wrong guy". I buy the argument that an experienced guy on offense was the correct move as of now.
The proof will be on the field.
Ben McAdoo hired as a senior offensive assistant. Not immediately clear how he fits in with Van Pelt, but he has experience with Eliot Wolf and Van Pelt from GB.
Cranky Bedard loves this move, and notes that like Van Pelt, McAdoo has had success working with a variety of QBs. But Bedard also praises his reputation as an offensive player evaluator, including as a QB evaluator.
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/02/06/bedard-ben-mcadoo-can-be-an-asset-in-a-variety-of-ways-for-patriots-mayo
Also, the fact that the Patriots' coaching are morphing into Packers East seems to say something about Eliot Wolf's influence in the organization. And it makes me wonder how much moving away from BB was about Eliot Wolf rather than just about Mayo.
Either way, this seems like a good move, and one that makes me more bullish on the Van Pelt move, too. Clearly there is a plan at work here governing all of these offensive hires.
Cranky Bedard loves this move, and notes that like Van Pelt, McAdoo has had success working with a variety of QBs. But Bedard also praises his reputation as an offensive player evaluator, including as a QB evaluator.
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/02/06/bedard-ben-mcadoo-can-be-an-asset-in-a-variety-of-ways-for-patriots-mayo
This with the (not rocket science) idea that they are gearing up to grab a QB in the draft and want to get it right.
Also, the fact that the Patriots' coaching are morphing into Packers East seems to say something about Eliot Wolf's influence in the organization. And it makes me wonder how much moving away from BB was about Eliot Wolf rather than just about Mayo.
Either way, this seems like a good move, and one that makes me more bullish on the Van Pelt move, too. Clearly there is a plan at work here governing all of these offensive hires.
…aaaaaaaand now I will forever see the play callers on each team’s staff as playing an incredibly complicated RPG.