The point: we aren’t in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.At some point we'll stop making these comparisons right? I love ya, but everyone here knows where we are and where we were. What's this adding?
The point: we aren’t in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.At some point we'll stop making these comparisons right? I love ya, but everyone here knows where we are and where we were. What's this adding?
My point: 100% of posters here know this.The point: we aren’t in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.
Let's move on to discussing something a little more forward-looking, like the Betts trade.My point: 100% of posters here know this.
Get it done, Theo!Let's move on to discussing something a little more forward-looking, like the Betts trade.
Callahan is gone, they let him go today he's signing on his son's staff in TEN.I am interested in seeing how Mayo lets AVP fill out his staff. Cleveland had a good offensive line last year that suffered through many injuries but motored on. Of course, they have Bill Callahan as the OL coach, who is very well-regarded. The offensive line coach is going to be a big hire. I am of the mind that if they don't believe fully in the QBs, I want Joe Alt in the first and the best tackle or WR available at 34.
Nepo dad?Callahan is gone, they let him go today he's signing on his son's staff in TEN.
I was wondering the same. Is it typical for a coordinator to hire the position coaches or for that to be done by the HC?I am interested in seeing how Mayo lets AVP fill out his staff. Cleveland had a good offensive line last year that suffered through many injuries but motored on. Of course, they have Bill Callahan as the OL coach, who is very well-regarded. The offensive line coach is going to be a big hire. I am of the mind that if they don't believe fully in the QBs, I want Joe Alt in the first and the best tackle or WR available at 34.
It depends, guys usually get a guy or two, but when the head coach is new and a defensive guy they might get to bring the whole staff.I was wondering the same. Is it typical for a coordinator to hire the position coaches or for that to be done by the HC?
I also think it might be interesting that there are multiple veteran FA QB's out there with experience with AVP: Mayfield, Brissett, and Flacco. I won't be at all surprised if one of them ends up on next year's Patriot roster as a vet backup. The former two might even serve as placeholders while a rookie QB gets his feet wet.
I would really hope that AVP gets to hire his own staff. Hiring an experienced OC means Mayo gets to hand the keys over to him which should include his staff. Troy Brown is certainly replaceable, Vinny Sunseri could be off to UW, Klemm is dealing with health issues, and BOB's guy at TE coach is likely not coming back. There's an opportunity to wipe the slate clean and bring in coaches who are experienced coaching in what AVP is going to impliment.It depends, guys usually get a guy or two, but when the head coach is new and a defensive guy they might get to bring the whole staff.
Allow him a Grace period.Let's hope his offense is worth more than a plugged nickel
They were also 10th best in the NFL in points per game and that's with 5 different QBs playing for them in a single season. Seems like a major feat to me.Unless I’m looking at the stats wrong, Browns were 5th worst in NFL in YPA and 7th worst in YPC. Which isn’t great.
Don't forget they lost basically all their tackles and their backup tackles.They were also 10th best in the NFL in points per game and that's with 5 different QBs playing for them in a single season. Seems like a major feat to me.
Ya this signing makes me pretty confident that they'll go with a QB using the 3rd pick or even trade up if that's a possibility. He has a history of developing QBs (including Rodgers) and seems to be the perfect coordinator to have for developing a young QB.I like it. This guy was a QB, has a long history at working with QB's. We're most likely going to have a rookie QB.
Also has coordinator experience with a track record that's not horrible.
I feel better about this than bringing someone in with hype but no real resume.
For now.
It probably depends on the situation, but who would want to be an OC anywhere and not get input into the offensive coaches?I was wondering the same. Is it typical for a coordinator to hire the position coaches or for that to be done by the HC?
I also think it might be interesting that there are multiple veteran FA QB's out there with experience with AVP: Mayfield, Brissett, and Flacco. I won't be at all surprised if one of them ends up on next year's Patriot roster as a vet backup. The former two might even serve as placeholders while a rookie QB gets his feet wet.
lol wut? What moves have I “sucked some Patriot dick” on? I don’t think I’ve commented on anything they have done since Mayo, but please enlighten me.Over the last several months, you shit on BB every chance you got. He's gone. Since he's been gone, you've sucked some Patriot dick on every move made.
Time to own up and put a stake in the ground. You're psyched BB is gone. And you've been very positive on Mayos moved. Stand behind it with some vigor.
We heard about it last season, that BOB didn't get to pick his staff.It probably depends on the situation, but who would want to be an OC anywhere and not get input into the offensive coaches?
It’s true, and last years offense went on to be a train wreck. I think there’s a long way between “sole hiring authority” and “you’ll take who we give you and like it” and last year with BOB was too close to the latter.We heard about it last season, that BOB didn't get to pick his staff.
It seems to be a matter of dispute whether Daniels is on the same level as the other two and whether this is really a three-QB draft.The Patriots are almost definitely taking a QB at #3 - how often do you get a chance at one of the top 3 QBs in what is regarded, FWIW, as a three-QB draft class - and they are CERTAINLY not running back Mac or Zappe. That's just silly. This situation has laid out perfectly for them. A draft strong in QB, OT and WR for a team whose top three needs are QB, OT and WR?
I think we're overthinking all this, which, fine, we've got months to go and these threads aren't going to write themselves, but still. Unless something unforeseen occurs over the next few months, the Patriots first round pick is going to be Maye or Daniels.
Yeah, but that's because Belichick never wanted BOB in the first place. It was reported he wanted to roll it back with Patricia until Kraft intervened. And then once he was brought on, Belichick wouldn't allow him any control of hires.We heard about it last season, that BOB didn't get to pick his staff.
This is a bit overblown. First, most offensive coordinators coming in do not get to hire their entire staff; usually at most 2-3 assistants are hired by the OC, while the rest are hired by the head coach, or retained from the previous season.Yeah, but that's because Belichick never wanted BOB in the first place. It was reported he wanted to roll it back with Patricia until Kraft intervened. And then once he was brought on, Belichick wouldn't allow him any control of hires.
“According to league sources, some assistants came to believe O’Brien wanted to clean house and build his own offensive staff upon arriving in January, but Belichick denied him...Belichick allowed one hire, [Will] Lawing, who replaced ex-tight ends coach Nick Caley."
Sort of a unique situation and not one Mayo wants to replicate.To get AVP on board, I would think Mayo told him he would allow him some say in staffing decisions, especially since AVP has so many connections around the league.
The source for this story was probably BOB. And he was covering his own ass. There's enough smoke, however, to think that Bill did get territorial and rigid in his last few years in NE, which, paired with shit results and impatience from the Krafts, is why he's no longer here. It would have been very Belichickian for him to run Patricia back and have it be successful. But that was never going to happen in these circumstances.This is a bit overblown. First, most offensive coordinators coming in do not get to hire their entire staff; usually at most 2-3 assistants are hired by the OC, while the rest are hired by the head coach, or retained from the previous season.
Second, the unverified reports stated that Bill wanted to keep Patricia, but was "forced" to hire an experienced replacement. Whether that was true or not is unknown, as the reporting is likely unreliable. In any event, Bill interviewed several candidates and decided upon Bill O'Brien.
"some assistants came to believe..." is doing some serious work.
Just what everyone wished for once BB was fired!
I don’t know. They need to make a clean break on offense, what they were doing was not working. There is no doubt in my mind that if BB brought these guys in to run the offense in 2022, we would have been happy.Just what everyone wished for once BB was fired!
But seriously, they could do worse than the 2010s GB offensive staff. It's just that no one else in the league seems to be falling over themselves to hire these guys.
Everyone was falling all over themselves for Ben Johnson as the next big thing that everyone would be fighting over for HC, including here. Then he couldn't even get the Commanders job and he reportedly didn't come out last year seriously because he knew he wasn't ready. At the same time arguing if we could get a 1st round pick for BB or if we'd have to give up #3 for Vrabel - both unemployed. The NFL Hot Stove of Coordinators and HC is complete nonsense.Just what everyone wished for once BB was fired!
But seriously, they could do worse than the 2010s GB offensive staff. It's just that no one else in the league seems to be falling over themselves to hire these guys.
I'm in the optimist category on AVP. And I'd feel the same about MacAdoo coming on. I see the reasoning. But it's not Robinson or whoever else from the Shanahan/McVay/LaFleur/Johnson orbit they interviewed. Those guys would have generated more excitement. Of course it's no guarantee they would have delivered better results than AVP will. I'm happy it was not Caley because I think they needed this outside influence in any case.Everyone was falling all over themselves for Ben Johnson as the next big thing that everyone would be fighting over for HC, including here. Then he couldn't even get the Commanders job and he reportedly didn't come out last year seriously because he knew he wasn't ready. At the same time arguing if we could get a 1st round pick for BB or if we'd have to give up #3 for Vrabel - both unemployed. The NFL Hot Stove of Coordinators and HC is complete nonsense.
I have no opinion on AVP but on paper he seems to fit a lot of the gaps of someone with experience, yet hasn't called plays much, but nearly everyone posted had no experience calling plays and a ton less experience. WIth no experience at HC, no experience at DC, I find it hard to argue with someone with experience at OC as the problem. As posted earlier, he seems to be a great clubhouse guy and he also led the offense this year of the Browns 5 QB's? and no tackles and they were still decent.
Well AVP got other OC interviews a day or two before ours (Bucs, Raiders), seems like he might have taken a week off after getting fired to figure things out, took 3 interviews then the Pats decided not to let him leave without an offer which he accepted.Just what everyone wished for once BB was fired!
But seriously, they could do worse than the 2010s GB offensive staff. It's just that no one else in the league seems to be falling over themselves to hire these guys.
I know this has been addressed somewhat upthread but just to dig in a bit more, it feels like the NFL coaching market works similar to other areas of business where organizational fit and philosophy are huge factors in terms of who gets hired as well as where. Maybe you are right and nobody around the league is clamoring to hire them but it could just as easily be that they just aren't right for what a team is looking to do or perhaps the HC just doesn't like them personally etc etc.It's just that no one else in the league seems to be falling over themselves to hire these guys.
I think you are being quite gracious to other businesses. Given the (lack of) recent success of many of these organizations I would translate fit as self preservation at management level which often exists in many struggling businesses.I know this has been addressed somewhat upthread but just to dig in a bit more, it feels like the NFL coaching market works similar to other areas of business where organizational fit and philosophy are huge factors in terms of who gets hired as well as where. Maybe you are right and nobody around the league is clamoring to hire them but it could just as easily be that they just aren't right for what a team is looking to do or perhaps the HC just doesn't like them personally etc etc.
Well even if it was her as OC. Better then Special Teams. I dont trust her with the kicking game.Better than Lucy
You'd have to save the "pulling the ball away at the last minute" fake FG for a crucial situation, like Shane Falco did.Well even if it was her as OC. Better then Special Teams. I dont trust her with the kicking game.
I agree and have had a good laugh at those trying everything they can dig up on AVP to convince themselves that he is the right guy for the job.Just what everyone wished for once BB was fired!
But seriously, they could do worse than the 2010s GB offensive staff. It's just that no one else in the league seems to be falling over themselves to hire these guys.
Some folks were pretty psyched to have BoB here last year as a competent hand on the rudder too. Then BFB build an average OL if healthy who proceeded to then get injured, and Mac turned into Chicken Little.I agree and have had a good laugh at those trying everything they can dig up on AVP to convince themselves that he is the right guy for the job.
Personally i'm expecting a pretty rough season in 24 with the current roster and coaching staff...
Most criticism I see of him is basically "well he's a long time coach not the shiny new toy" People like to get excited about the possibility that whichever young guy will be the next Mike McDaniel and bring some exciting offense. Same reason people continually fail to credit Mike McCarthy, despite him being one of the best offense builders in the league. Everyone was salivating over the hot new thing in Kellen Moore a year ago... then he left, wasn't very good and McCarthy took back over and the offense there was much better.Some folks were pretty psyched to have BoB here last year as a competent hand on the rudder too. Then BFB build an average OL if healthy who proceeded to then get injured, and Mac turned into Chicken Little.
Without the roster it doesn't much matter who the coach is. But AVPs resume doesn't strike me as some weird outlier for this job in a bad way. Do people think that he's not qualified?
Makes sense. Your skinny jeans reference is not lost on me also.Most criticism I see of him is basically "well he's a long time coach not the shiny new toy" People like to get excited about the possibility that whichever young guy will be the next Mike McDaniel and bring some exciting offense. Same reason people continually fail to credit Mike McCarthy, despite him being one of the best offense builders in the league. Everyone was salivating over the hot new thing in Kellen Moore a year ago... then he left, wasn't very good and McCarthy took back over and the offense there was much better.
If AVP were 31 and wore skinny jeans and AF1s all we'd hear is about how amazing he was for getting Joe Flacco playing like he did, and how exciting it was to have one of the most aggressive downfield passing OCs coming in.
Yes if anything it was rather shocking to see CLE fire the OC of a team that made the playoffs despite losing their franchise QB and franchise RB to injury. Getting a team lead by Joe Flacco and Jerome Ford into the playoffs was quite the feat. The CLE offense by most measures was at least league average last year and better when you take out the games started by DTR and Walker.Most criticism I see of him is basically "well he's a long time coach not the shiny new toy" People like to get excited about the possibility that whichever young guy will be the next Mike McDaniel and bring some exciting offense. Same reason people continually fail to credit Mike McCarthy, despite him being one of the best offense builders in the league. Everyone was salivating over the hot new thing in Kellen Moore a year ago... then he left, wasn't very good and McCarthy took back over and the offense there was much better.
If AVP were 31 and wore skinny jeans and AF1s all we'd hear is about how amazing he was for getting Joe Flacco playing like he did, and how exciting it was to have one of the most aggressive downfield passing OCs coming in.
Who was your choice as OC?I agree and have had a good laugh at those trying everything they can dig up on AVP to convince themselves that he is the right guy for the job.
Personally i'm expecting a pretty rough season in 24 with the current roster and coaching staff...
Or maybe just looking at his resume and commenting on why The Patriots may have chosen him. What is there to "dig up"?I agree and have had a good laugh at those trying everything they can dig up on AVP to convince themselves that he is the right guy for the job.
Also they lost both starting tackles for the year, one in week 2, one in week 9, and their top backup tackle also got injured.Yes if anything it was rather shocking to see CLE fire the OC of a team that made the playoffs despite losing their franchise QB and franchise RB to injury. Getting a team lead by Joe Flacco and Jerome Ford into the playoffs was quite the feat. The CLE offense by most measures was at least league average last year and better when you take out the games started by DTR and Walker.
Much like a draft pick, it's hard to say any person was the "right guy" right away.I don't see anyone here saying he was the "right guy".
Exactly what I was conveying.Much like a draft pick, it's hard to say any person was the "right guy" right away.
There's nothing to show me he was the "wrong guy". I buy the argument that an experienced guy on offense was the correct move as of now.
The proof will be on the field.
McAdoo, which was a surprise to me, is known from his various stops with the Packers, Giants and Panthers to be an astute talent evaluator, especially with QBs in the draft.
"He's an awesome talent evaluator," said one person who worked with McAdoo. "At all offensive positions."
These are documented facts at the time in regards to his evaluation prowess:
- Went to Patrick Mahomes' pro day as Giants OC and came back to stand on the table for New York to trade up for Mahomes;
- Of the 2018 draft class, he had Josh Allen (7th pick) and Lamar Jackson (32nd) at the top of his list. He had BakerMayfield (who he coached with the Panthers) as sixth behind Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Mason Rudolph.
- Asked by Panthers reporters about his QB philosophy in regards to the more pro-ready candidates: “I’m a big swing-for-the-fences kind of guy,” McAdoo said. “Just ‘cause you’re ready doesn’t mean you’re gonna be the best. But ready does factor in some scenarios. Experience obviously helps. The more games you play helps.”
This with the (not rocket science) idea that they are gearing up to grab a QB in the draft and want to get it right.With the Panthers, McAdoo used three QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, PJ Walker) with distinctly different skill sets to work to an extent (Darnold and Walker were a combined 6-5 after Matt Rhule was fired). The Panthers went from 1-5 to one game out of the playoffs.
…aaaaaaaand now I will forever see the play callers on each team’s staff as playing an incredibly complicated RPG.Middle aged dude, looks more like he should be running a DND campaign than an offense. Probably a lot of it.