Arsenal 2014-2015: Ugh. Your banter stinks.
- Thread starter sachmoney
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Only the community shield and city's team was pretty weak , but good to get a convincing win nonetheless.
Still need a DM and a 3rd CB.
Still need a DM and a 3rd CB.
Man we steamrolled them. I know they werent at 100% but still, that was great fun.
Dat Giroud goal...
Dat Giroud goal...
Jon Flanagan? The guy Liverpool are buying multiple replacements for this summer?swiftaw said:
Nope, no thanks. Overpaid, has barely played in 2 years and thinks he's closer to Aaron Ramsey than a DM.
PASS.
PASS.
The issues with Song at Arsenal stemmed beyond his play. He doesn't seem to be the right type of character to bring back. If United wants him, they can have him.
I was flying back today, so I missed the game. I'm pleased with the result obviously and I hope that this positive momentum continues into the season.
I was flying back today, so I missed the game. I'm pleased with the result obviously and I hope that this positive momentum continues into the season.
I know this thread has already anointed him the new Bobby Moore, but Jacob Steinberg has a column up at The Guardian suggesting it might not be time to start sucking each others' popsicles just yet.
DLew On Roids said:
Everybody in this thread has agreed that he's not ready to be the 3rd CB and should primarily play in cup games. If you're looking for premature popsicle sucking, maybe you should jump into some more LFC fan conversations about Raheem Sterling.
From what's been in the press since Wenger's postgame presser after the Community Shield is that Chambers might actually be the new CDM, as it appears he's more focused on finding that reserve CB
mikeford said:
Wenger will often throw out bullshit to the press when in the middle of transfer season. Its hard to know what to believe. I definitely don't think he sees Chambers as a first team CDM - otherwise, he would have surely played him there during the preseason to get him some exposure and experience. So if what you're saying is true, then the plan is Arteta as the starting CDM, which IMO is a recipe for disaster.
I missed the Community Shield live but went back and watched the first half last night. The most interesting thing for me was that we played 4-1-4-1 again, that Wilshere and Ramsey combined excellently in the middle, and that they actually did a lot of pressing early.
I'm very curious about Wenger's overall plans and how things might or might not change once Ozil and eventually Walcott come back into the team. I could see us making a 4-1-4-1 our primary formation this year, playing Ozil and Ramsey together as the CAMs against weaker opposition (with Wilshere also rotating in) but against stronger opposition playing Wilshere and Ramsey together int he middle and Ozil on the wing.
So in league games in which we expect to dominate and the onus is on attacking firepower and the ability to break down defenses, we'd line up like:
---------Giroud/Sanogo-----------
Caz/Ox--Rambo--Ozil----Sanchez/Theo
--------------CDM--------------------------
But in CL games or away games against the tougher league sides, where we need more fight in midfield and there may be more onus on counter-attacking and pace up front, we might play more lie this.
-------Sanchez-------
Ozil--Rambo--JW--Theo
------CDM--------
I like these formations because it allows Ramsey to really emphasize the offensive side of his game. The problem is that you need a CDM who can cover a lot of ground and reads the game really well. Arteta has the mental part of the game but I just don't think he has the legs to play that role at a truly high level anymore. In contrast, Chambers might have the physical qualities but his inexperience would really worry me in that role.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
My bad, it must have been another thread where he was posited as the England CB of the future.
No, wait, it was here! Thanks for again showing that the Arsenal thread is where thick skins go to die in this forum, though.
And Raheem Sterling excitement is so March 2014. Everyone who's anyone is jumping up and down for Jordan Ibe these days. Jeez, get it together, man.
DLew On Roids said:
I might take this seriously if Jacob Steinberg wasn't basically the CHB of the Guardian's football offering.
As long as we're sucking each others' popsicles over Chambers, I came across this today on Twitter, excerpted from The Nowhere Men, a book published last year about football scouts and scouting. This interviewee is Pat Holland, a former Arsenal youth scout, and I imagine the interview took place several years ago. So I guess we've been on to Chambers for a while. The book also says that we were offered Shaw for 2M when he was 16 and we turned it down...so that part of his comments don't look so wise in retrospect.
If what Mike said was true, then Chambers would be groomed to play DM. May be I'm missing something, but I fail to see how your conclusion comes from what Mike said.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Additionally, Chambers was brought in due to his versatility. A reasonable explanation for him playing at centerback is that we've only had one other centerback (Koscielny) these past two weekends. Hence, using Chambers' versatility. Furthermore, not playing him at DM allows them to get Arteta and Flamini closer to match fitness.
Personally, the thing that makes me most concerned about Arteta being the starting CDM is that he was named captain. I mean, obviously, the club captain found it hard to get a game last year, but are we going to have two straight years where the captain is riding the pine? That's a real question going into the season. I don't think Arteta would be a disaster, but I do think that it's something that would potentially keep the title out of Arsenal's grasp (and if that's what a disaster is, well...).
I haven't seen Chambers play so I don't have an opinion on him. I've heard good things from people "sucking his dick," but I can't say I have an opinion on him yet. Given the hype train, I wondered if Chambers would be groomed for CDM myself. It would probably not be the best for this season, but may be better in the longer term if it helps him develop. Again, I have no idea about his pace or athleticism, but I'd assume he has something that makes him able to play everywhere.
Ideally, Arsene addresses both positions, but I am doubtful at this moment.
sachmoney said:
I'm not disagreeing with Mike so much as saying I hope he's wrong, as it would mean another season of Arteta/Flamini in the first team. I agree that Arteta getting the armband was not a good sign at all. I don't know how Wenger could look at those poundings we took against City, Liverpool, and Chelsea - getting overrun in midfield on each occasion - and the fact that we had to loan freaking Kallstrom last year because we were so short and then essentially role with the same group of midfielders plus maybe Chambers. I'm still holding out hope that a first team midfielder will be brought in.
I know everybody's freaking out about the relative lack of movement over CB and CM, but it's worth pointing out that there may be deals contingent on Arsenal beating Besiktas.
I just really had a problem with your conditional in the original post because that wasn't what Mike said. Furthermore, are you basing your Arteta/Flamini bit off of Chambers not being able to play full time or what? I guess I don't get how you're arriving at Arteta/Flamini being starters off of a suggestion that Chambers may be pushed into the DM role. Is it just because he didn't play there during the preseason? From what I see, Chambers was brought in to be a utility guy. He displayed that utility by playing CB when the club needed him to and may have impressed the manager to the point where he wants Chambers to get more games. The weak link in the line up is DM, especially if no purchases are mades, so it would make sense that if Wenger wants Chambers to get more games, he slots in there. The implications of which we probably agree on because I'd say that he's probably not ready and if he's not ready, we probably see more Arteta and Flamini.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
And I'm excited about this team regardless of the purchases. I've seen him not address needs for years and while it's frustrating, this is a team that is much more exciting, has more star power, and should score a ton of goals. Despite that missing piece (or pieces), I'd still say Arsenal has taken a significant step forward coming into the season.
Also an important point.Spacemans Bong said:
I'm sorry. In the future I'll try to make my banter more anti-Semitic like yours.mikeford said:
Spacemans Bong said:
Good point. Wenger also said a week or two ago that he expected August 15-31 to be busy on the transfer front, so there's some reason to think that there was never much intention of getting a deal done in the first part of the month, when he's been focused on getting the team ready for the season. We'll see.
Get used to this chant
Cheik, Cheik, Cheik Tiote
Tackles borderline
Cheik, Cheik, Cheik Tiote
Carded all the time
Cheik, Cheik, Cheik Tiote
Tackles borderline
Cheik, Cheik, Cheik Tiote
Carded all the time
sachmoney said:
Not nearly as flawless as Debuchy's.
EDIT: To wit, this FA Cup beaut.
http://youtu.be/oFPw23tyvs0
Obviously, take it with a grain of salt at this point, but this would certainly qualify as big news if Arsenal brought in Cavani to lead the attack: http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/13/report-edinson-cavani-to-arsenal-for-85-million/
TheDeuce222 said:
I give this about a zero percent chance of happening. Unless they'll take like 20M and Giroud.
PSG is giving the Chelsea and City of yesteryear a run for their money in terms of awful transfer business from oil clubs. First they pay 55M for Cavani last summer, a player they don't really need and can't play in his natural position. Then, even knowing that the FFP hammer has come down, they pay 50M for David Luiz, another player they don't need at all given that they have both Thiago Silva and Marquinhos at CB. Then they realize that having a real winger like Di Maria is what the team actually needs but they're so limited by FFP that it probably can't happen unless they sell Cavani on the cheap.
My prediction is that he'll end up at Chelsea for like 35M and the window will close with PSG having paid Cavani and 15M for the most overrated defender in football. Good work.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I give this about a zero percent chance of happening. Unless they'll take like 20M and Giroud.
PSG is giving the Chelsea and City of yesteryear a run for their money in terms of awful transfer business from oil clubs. First they pay 55M for Cavani last summer, a player they don't really need and can't play in his natural position. Then, even knowing that the FFP hammer has come down, they pay 50M for David Luiz, another player they don't need at all given that they have both Thiago Silva and Marquinhos at CB. Then they realize that having a real winger like Di Maria is what the team actually needs but they're so limited by FFP that it probably can't happen unless they sell Cavani on the cheap.
My prediction is that he'll end up at Chelsea for like 35M and the window will close with PSG having paid Cavani and 15M for the most overrated defender in football. Good work.
I don't think Luiz is a CB long term but should probably be in front of the back line...I wonder if PSG thinks the same?
That said, there's no doubt you're correct in noting their careless spending habits.
Yeah Arsenal is in a position to spend like 35-40m on a guy but no way in hell do I believe they could drop 85m on one guy. Even without all the spending they already did this summer.
Didnt even bother reading it TBH, just saw the URL and assumed itd be in GBP since every transfer story is either in GBP or EuroZomp said:
In the past day, I think I've seen Rembrat served by Darnell's Son and URI served by Madcow. Site's on a roll.
Playing to the American audience I guess. Still seems bizarre to me to do it in USD.mgoblue2 said:
Arsenal-Palace tactical preview on arsenal.com by Zonal Marking's Michael Cox.
Its not completely clear to me but its seems like Cox might be doing one of these for arsenal.com in advance of every league fixture this year. If so, that's pretty awesome.
Its not completely clear to me but its seems like Cox might be doing one of these for arsenal.com in advance of every league fixture this year. If so, that's pretty awesome.
i had to watch this one on replay due to daddy duty. Some thoughts:
-Three points is three points. Palace is a tough, well organized squad that came to to kick us and put 10 guys behind the ball and even if Tony Pulis wasn't there he had been preparing them for this game for weeks. I'm not going to get too upset about the fact that we didn't play that well and were somewhat lucky to win. I also think there's something to what Wenger said about the World Cup being an equalizer between the big and little clubs in the first weeks of the season, given the greater rest and preparation teams like Palace (or Swansea, or Leicester, etc) have had. At the same time, there are a lot of these kinds of games over the course of a season and we're going to have to do much better.
-I love Cazorla but we really need to stop playing him out wide in these kinds of matches. When the other team has 10 defenders behind the ball, you have to attack from both flanks, switch the ball quickly from wing to wing and try to exploit holes in their shape that might open up. But you can't do that when Santi is nominally playing left wing but constantly popping up in the middle of the field (or on the right!). This drives me fucking crazy.
-Highly related to the above, we looked a lot better once Ox came in for Wilshere and Santi moved central (Ox moved to RW and Alexis LW mainly). Its not rocket science - play with two wingers with pace/trickery that actually stay in their positions and fullbacks that can overlap each of them, and now we're dangerous down both sides and the defense has more work to do.
-Alexis looked very lively. Most of our best stuff went through him. Neither of the central strikers did much, but neither had much service or space. I think the problems were mainly elsewhere but its a reminder that neither of these guys are the matchwinner types who will just steal a goal on their own and lift the team after an indifferent performance.
-The defense didn't have much to do but were solid overall. When we play with the Kos-Chambers pairing and Arteta at DM, however, the spine of the team really lacks height, which tends to show up when the other squad has a giant like Hageland in your box on set pieces.
In transfer news, we're being linked a lot to Adrien Rabiot of PSG, but not yet by anyone remotely reliable. I mainly mention it because the transfer makes a ton of sense in the abstract - a young French player that Wenger is said to rate highly and a great opportunity to buy low (he's out of contract at PSG after this year and has refused to sign a new deal since first team football looks difficult for him there currently). I'd rather have a DM who can step in right away but Rabiot is supposedly composed beyond his years and so I could see us signing him with the intention of working him into the mix gradually and maybe making him a regular starter by the second half of the season.
-Three points is three points. Palace is a tough, well organized squad that came to to kick us and put 10 guys behind the ball and even if Tony Pulis wasn't there he had been preparing them for this game for weeks. I'm not going to get too upset about the fact that we didn't play that well and were somewhat lucky to win. I also think there's something to what Wenger said about the World Cup being an equalizer between the big and little clubs in the first weeks of the season, given the greater rest and preparation teams like Palace (or Swansea, or Leicester, etc) have had. At the same time, there are a lot of these kinds of games over the course of a season and we're going to have to do much better.
-I love Cazorla but we really need to stop playing him out wide in these kinds of matches. When the other team has 10 defenders behind the ball, you have to attack from both flanks, switch the ball quickly from wing to wing and try to exploit holes in their shape that might open up. But you can't do that when Santi is nominally playing left wing but constantly popping up in the middle of the field (or on the right!). This drives me fucking crazy.
-Highly related to the above, we looked a lot better once Ox came in for Wilshere and Santi moved central (Ox moved to RW and Alexis LW mainly). Its not rocket science - play with two wingers with pace/trickery that actually stay in their positions and fullbacks that can overlap each of them, and now we're dangerous down both sides and the defense has more work to do.
-Alexis looked very lively. Most of our best stuff went through him. Neither of the central strikers did much, but neither had much service or space. I think the problems were mainly elsewhere but its a reminder that neither of these guys are the matchwinner types who will just steal a goal on their own and lift the team after an indifferent performance.
-The defense didn't have much to do but were solid overall. When we play with the Kos-Chambers pairing and Arteta at DM, however, the spine of the team really lacks height, which tends to show up when the other squad has a giant like Hageland in your box on set pieces.
In transfer news, we're being linked a lot to Adrien Rabiot of PSG, but not yet by anyone remotely reliable. I mainly mention it because the transfer makes a ton of sense in the abstract - a young French player that Wenger is said to rate highly and a great opportunity to buy low (he's out of contract at PSG after this year and has refused to sign a new deal since first team football looks difficult for him there currently). I'd rather have a DM who can step in right away but Rabiot is supposedly composed beyond his years and so I could see us signing him with the intention of working him into the mix gradually and maybe making him a regular starter by the second half of the season.
I didn't think anyone looked sharp yesterday and it wasn't the most fun game to watch. Credit to Palace too because they were nipping at heels all game and pressing all the way through. However, it's great to see this team have the impetus to grasp victory while playing like that when clearly not at their best.
It sounds like the German reinforcements will be ready for next week against Everton, but I'm not sure whether they will be thrown into the starting line up right away. Arsenal need a much stronger performance against Besiktas midweek.
It sounds like the German reinforcements will be ready for next week against Everton, but I'm not sure whether they will be thrown into the starting line up right away. Arsenal need a much stronger performance against Besiktas midweek.
Latest transfer blather has Arsenal signing 23-year-old central defender Kostas Monolas from Olympiacos. He supposedly already had a medical exam. He's young, but is fairly highly rated, tall (6'2") and got good reviews for the 4 matches he played for Greece in the World Cup. He would be a solid pickup for this year and the future. It'd be nice to get a bigger name who is good enough right now to start, but no one like that is likely willing to come and be a part-timer. Realistically, this guy would be about as good a pickup for the backup CF role as we could get, and is the right age where if he pans out, he could win a starting role in a couple years.
And the rest of the Vermaelen sale money is supposedly being offered for Adrien Rabiot of PSG, a promising 19-year-old midfielder. He is a tall, floppy-haired midfielder who would be projected as the eventual Arteta replacement. He seems too young for that role, and it'd be better to get someone 23 or so who is ready to battle for the job right away, ideally a physical, athletic type like Carvalho, which most people would like to see. On the other hand, Rabiot played 34 times for PSG last year, so he has more experience than most players his age. And he supposedly "has the potential to become one of Europe's top midfielders."
And he is cheap enough that if he comes, there still should be money left over for a big name acquisition near the deadline, if one should become available.
If we basically swapped Vermaelen for both Manolas and Rabiot, that would be great business for the long term, maybe not ideal for the short term but decent enough, and money would presumably still be left for another move too.
And the rest of the Vermaelen sale money is supposedly being offered for Adrien Rabiot of PSG, a promising 19-year-old midfielder. He is a tall, floppy-haired midfielder who would be projected as the eventual Arteta replacement. He seems too young for that role, and it'd be better to get someone 23 or so who is ready to battle for the job right away, ideally a physical, athletic type like Carvalho, which most people would like to see. On the other hand, Rabiot played 34 times for PSG last year, so he has more experience than most players his age. And he supposedly "has the potential to become one of Europe's top midfielders."
And he is cheap enough that if he comes, there still should be money left over for a big name acquisition near the deadline, if one should become available.
If we basically swapped Vermaelen for both Manolas and Rabiot, that would be great business for the long term, maybe not ideal for the short term but decent enough, and money would presumably still be left for another move too.
Kos is a go for Turkey
Gibbs, Yaya, Mertesacker all not on the trip
Time to unleash GOL CAMPBELL
Gibbs, Yaya, Mertesacker all not on the trip
Time to unleash GOL CAMPBELL
mikeford said:
So we're probably looking at Monreal-Kos-Chambers-Debuchy as our backline, which is non-optimal but fine. But if Kos has his Achilles act up again, it probably becomes Flamini-Monreal-Chambers-Debuchy, which is horrifying. Lets hope we stay healthy.
The Gray Eagle said:
I'd be very happy with Manolas as our CB cover. I think if you can get a player like Rabiot for the sums being discussed, you just do it no matter what. I'd rather have a guy who can step in right away but I wouldn't be all upset with Rabiot, who as I said upthread probably has a decent chance of beating out Arteta by mid year and would also give us cover in the box-to-box role. I do wonder whether Wenger can actually convince Rabiot to come, given that the primary problem at PSG is a lack of first team minutes and I can't see Wenger making him a first team guarantee with us.
Gianluca di Marzio has said that we bid on Rabiot but other than that I haven't seen anything really reliable about these two transfers, just a bunch of speculation about medicals from crappy sources and then other outlets quoting those sources for a story. So we will see.
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