Here's a question. Do you guys think missing Europe for a season would give you a better shot in the league, and if so, would that increased chance be worth the monetary loss and more difficult player recruitment that results from it?
1. Regarding the everyone's lament comment, I'm not lamenting the wins. I view the wins as a positive. It's more that those wins haven't really done anything for Arsenal that's the problem. I think that all of the clubs that finished in Champions League places could/should be disappointed with this year's league campaign.Whenever Arsene wants to hire me as a scout you guys need to give him my contact info.
On the current topic, it is easy to lament another blown chance at the league especially with wins over the probable winners but this is everyone's lament this season. We all feel like an opportunity was blown with Leicester winning but that team ha grinder out result after result. It's a shocking name to see up there but they've had title winning form with only 3 losses in the league. It's sort of unfair of all teams to feel like an opportunity was missed because quite frankly Leicester have not left much of an opening. Of all the teams, at least Arsenal can say they did their part to open the door with two results against Leicester.
As is often the case, injury dictates so much of what happens in the table. Your overall squad depth wasn't there to compete on all fronts and relying on some of the usual suspects to not get injured did you in. I think Wenger is a fantastic manager and gets too much grief for things that are largely out of his control but his inability to understand the depth that is needed to dine with the very best is in my opinion his biggest flaw. Whether through youth promotion or depth signings, you just can't start a season with the lack of depth Arsenal keeps trying to begin with and expect to compete on all fronts. Aside from striker, I don't think it's a question of breaking the bank on stars, more a need to have real depth with competent PL footballers
None of these players have developed. You should put trust in young players, but they've got to pay it back with development. His unrelenting backing of these players is admirable, but it seems like ruthlessness yields results.What this season really demonstrated was the definitive failure of Wenger's plan to build a team around the British core. I don't think we lost the league because we had no depth. We lost the league because our depth was Wilshere (by far the best of these players but injured all year), Ramsey (completely unable/unwilling to be the midfield engine for a possession-based team), Ox (athletic freak and a great dude with a football IQ near zero), and Theo (speedy finisher who couldn't finish and doesn't offer much else).
I don't think that Arsenal has the depth to get through a league season, even without Europe. So no, I don't think that it would give Arsenal a better shot. Anyway, I'd imagine that players would be lost in combination with difficult player recruitment. I also feel like Arsenal is already looked down on amongst the "big" clubs by many players, who feel Arsenal isn't serious about winning.Here's a question. Do you guys think missing Europe for a season would give you a better shot in the league, and if so, would that increased chance be worth the monetary loss and more difficult player recruitment that results from it?
I don´t know if you mean missing the CL or missing even the Europa League, which is almost impossible. They have a 7-point lead over West Ham with 6 matches to play and Arsenal has 4 matches at home and only 2 away, so they will get some points.Here's a question. Do you guys think missing Europe for a season would give you a better shot in the league, and if so, would that increased chance be worth the monetary loss and more difficult player recruitment that results from it?
I can't imagine Arsenal isn't going to get overtaken by Man City (currently 2 points behind), Man Utd (6 points) and West Ham (7 points), but they could easily be passed by two of those three and fall to fifth if they continue to drop points at home and/or against bottom-half teams. I certainly expect Arsenal will drop enough points before the end of the season to open the door for all three of those clubs; I just don't think all of them are capable of playing error-free ball.I don´t know if you mean missing the CL or missing even the Europa League, which is almost impossible. They have a 7-point lead over West Ham with 6 matches to play and Arsenal has 4 matches at home and only 2 away, so they will get some points.
Hahaha like ANYONE would ever quit an £8m a year gig where they have no pressure to do anything and are their own boss.Is it going to take a 5th place spot for Wenger to step down?
This is great analysis.I think people are too hung up on the names of teams. It's not 2008 anymore, the league is completely different now. There are few if any easy wins. Palace has a payroll that would be top 5 in Germany, Spain, or Italy, but it's 15th in EPL. Sure Arsenal is "one of the ten biggest clubs in the world" but 10 of the largest 20 payrolls are in their league. 17 of the 30 largest payrolls are in their league. The non-Big 4 clubs in EPL are all getting more money, getting better players, and improving. Unfashionable Stoke, who are 9th on the table and 9th in payroll, would probably finish 4th in Spain, 3rd in Germany, or 2nd in Italy/France. If Stoke played in those leagues they'd be in the Champions League. Seriously, Stoke. And the money skyrockets next season. Half the league will have 100 million pound payrolls in a couple seasons. This league is brutally competitive.
At the same time, the big four clubs are pinched from above because few players that can get to Real Madrid, Bayern, or Barca will choose to go to a big 4 club (at least until Pep goes to City). Real/Bayern/Barca have more money and acres of pressure-free noncompetitive domestic matches in which to rest their players, so the players know they'll get paid, get playing time in easy matches, and requisite rest (and for Barca/Real, live in Spain). Easy matches usually means fewer injuries. La Liga will finally have a collective TV deal next season and the other teams will have considerably more money, so they will be better able to compete with non-Big4 EPL clubs for players, and perhaps Real and Barca won't have 20ish easy matches. But La Liga still won't be in EPL's league financially.
So since they aren't getting the Neymars, Messis or Ronaldos, and the lower teams have more money than before, the gap in quality in EPL has shrunk. What they can do is what teddy said, use their financial advantage to have as deep a squad as possible. And pray that the FA dumps FA Cup replays and EPL dumps the League Cup entirely to lessen the strain on the squads.
I think that's fair, but I think the gap from 10 to 20 is far smaller than the gap from 10 to 1...or even 10 to 3. Teams like Real, Barca, and Bayern are in another league. You go to that next tier of Atleti, Juve, PSG and the gaps between them and Arsenal is still greater than the gap between Arsenal and the 20th team.Well said - I agree with all of that. (Although it does make Leicester's rise seem that much more improbable.)
I wonder where Arsenal would finish in a hypothetical 20-team European super league season. Looking strictly at current UEFA club coefficients, that league would contain (with coefficient rankings in parentheses):
By this criteria, Arsenal is right in mid-table. Feels about right. (By the way, if you limit this league to 4 clubs per country, you remove Sevilla and add Shakhtar Donetsk.)
- Spain: Real Madrid (1), Barcelona (3), Atletico Madrid (4), Valencia (12), Sevilla (18)
- Germany: Bayern Munich (2), Borussia Dortmund (8), Schalke (13), Bayer Leverkusen (17)
- England: Chelsea (5), Arsenal (10), Man City (11), Man Utd (20)
- Portugal: Benfica (6), Porto (15)
- France: PSG (7)
- Italy: Juventus (9), Napoli (16)
- Russia: Zenit (14)
- Switzerland: Basel (19)
Feel like there is virtually no chance of keeping him or Ozil if they fall out of the Champions League and maybe even if they have to go play the playoff to get into the real Champions League.Alexis has been on fire the last six weeks. He has been so out of sorts this year - clearly gassed after the Cop America and struggling for form, then injured for so long, then struggling for form again when he came back. Its nice to see him back to his best. Lets hope we can keep him.
Luckily, we have the Copa América Centenario for him to gassed from this year! And the Euro for Özil!Alexis has been on fire the last six weeks. He has been so out of sorts this year - clearly gassed after the Cop America and struggling for form, then injured for so long, then struggling for form again when he came back. Its nice to see him back to his best. Lets hope we can keep him.
Probably cuz it was silent for like the first hourI'm a fuckin idiot, it's at Sunderland...why did i think it was an Arsenal home game?
Maybe you shouldn't bury this in the middle of a paragraph. Or maybe put it in 18 point font.The worst part is that ownership doesn't see anything wrong with the product, which means that Wenger is the only firewall against the descent of the club into true mediocrity.
Don't even pretend you're not actually filled with happiness at each and every one of these sentences. So much to kvetch about! It's the salad days for mikeford.Let it be ruined then. If it has to be burned down to get rid of Kroenke so be it.
With Leicester winning today we're officially eliminated from winning the title.
Next year don't step on someone's thread starting toes coming off a trophy win eh blueguitar?
The irony is that if anything is going to get him sacked, it might just be if the trophy goes to North London but not to him. I wonder how Arsenal fans will feel about that double if Spurs edge Leicester out of the title.Just watched the Wenger interview on Sky. He went on again about how Arsenal beat Leicester home and away...didn't say too much about losing at home to Swansea though, but said Leicester will have to adapt in the Champion's league. Didn't say too much about how he's ersed this years' chance at glory...but his charges did do the double over Leicester...no medals for that though gadgie.
Kroenke is awful, that's the worst part. I believe Wenger's ambition far outstrips the owner's, we can all argue if his signings (or lack thereof) are a result of his stubbornness (perhaps), the purse strings being held tightly by others (possible, but less evidence for this), or his lack of creativity or courage. But nonetheless I still believe Wenger craves success, winning, how can one not think that he desires to win? What is unclear is whether he has the tactical agility to adjust to the game at this point, and whether he has the ruthlessness to move on from players who are not providing sufficient evidence during the actual games to justify his continued confidence in them. I likened him in an earlier post to late-stage Don Shula, a previously great coach who was still "succeeding" (by some measures) in his last days, but who had clearly been a much better coach in an earlier era.*Maybe you shouldn't bury this in the middle of a paragraph. Or maybe put it in 18 point font.
When Wenger is gone you lot will realize - too late - that Stan Kroenke is perfectly happy with 12th place, turning a tiny profit, and not giving two fucks about the fans or the club.
The good people of St. Louis or Denver will be happy to tell you about how little Stan's Hairpiece cares about winning. All of the "fire Wenger" pleas are, IMO, begging for the complete ruination of your club. The current situation might be frustrating but my lord, it is about to get so much worse. Brace yourselves. Winter is coming.
Pure rubbish.When Wenger is gone you lot will realize - too late - that Stan Kroenke is perfectly happy with 12th place, turning a tiny profit, and not giving two fucks about the fans or the club.
The good people of St. Louis or Denver will be happy to tell you about how little Stan's Hairpiece cares about winning. All of the "fire Wenger" pleas are, IMO, begging for the complete ruination of your club. The current situation might be frustrating but my lord, it is about to get so much worse. Brace yourselves. Winter is coming.
...fear the unknown more than the known and believe Wenger still has it within him to turn Arsenal around despite masses of evidence to the contrary.I don't believe Wenger should be sacked or that he should resign - I am not in the "Wenger Out" crew, not yet. I can't stomach the possibilities of what I alluded to above; in effect I am a coward too. I am afraid of what will happen when it all "burns down". My hope is that this season catalyzes bigger signings this summer and the release of certain players. I guess we will see.
I may be slightly misinterpreting the comment above but my own fear is of an impulsive "Wenger Out" sacking response, and the disarray that will come with that kind of response to fan dissatisfaction. It isn't that I don't want Wenger to move on (hence my comparison to Shula, and my sentiment that the game has perhaps passed Wenger by). I share your view of what a "best-case" scenario is. Wenger has always spoken about preparing for a proper transition, and I take him at his word on that - I hope this becomes an active preparation once the season ends. Since his contract runs one more year I have some hopes that this is the truly final year. But I fear an impulsive sacking to satisfy angry fans, which is not the same as allowing a transition to occur in proper fashion.Pure rubbish.
As Arsenal fans we obviously have two massive problems: Kroenke is happy with fourth-place mediocrity and therefore won't sack or even pressure Wenger as long as that target keeps being met, and Wenger is too obstinate to resign as long as he feels the laurels for which he's grasping are still within his reach. So we remain in this perpetual cycle of frustration, not least because fans like this...
Hmmm....Pure rubbish.
1) The Premier League isn't the NFL or the NHL. You have to finish in the top four - could eventually be the top three, if England's UEFA coefficient slides far enough - to reach the Champions League. If you're not in the Champions League for any extended period of time, you're not getting the top players, you're not getting the top revenues, and your club loses value.
17 of the 30 largest payrolls are in their league. The non-Big 4 clubs in EPL are all getting more money, getting better players, and improving.
Well said - I agree with all of that.
Like you agreed last week, a mid-table finish in the EPL is enough to turn a tiny profit, without the UCL.Stan Kroenke is perfectly happy ... turning a tiny profit...
I don't think there's any scenario in which Kroenke sacks Wenger. None. So I don't think you have anything to worry about here. (The type of fan pressure I referenced in my previous post is far more likely to make Kroenke decide owning Arsenal isn't worthwhile than it is to shape his decision-making on an issue like this...and I don't think any such pressure would likely tell until after multiple seasons in mid-table obscurity. Randy Lerner is probably the closest Premier League model of what I have in mind in this regard.)I may be slightly misinterpreting the comment above but my own fear is of an impulsive "Wenger Out" sacking response, and the disarray that will come with that kind of response to fan dissatisfaction. It isn't that I don't want Wenger to move on (hence my comparison to Shula, and my sentiment that the game has perhaps passed Wenger by). I share your view of what a "best-case" scenario is. Wenger has always spoken about preparing for a proper transition, and I take him at his word on that - I hope this becomes an active preparation once the season ends. Since his contract runs one more year I have some hopes that this is the truly final year. But I fear an impulsive sacking to satisfy angry fans, which is not the same as allowing a transition to occur in proper fashion.
Barring a Juventus-style cheating scandal, I don't think Arsenal is in any danger whatsoever of being relegated in my lifetime. That is Wenger's lasting legacy: he joined the club after a season in which Arsenal barely pipped Spurs and Everton for England's final UEFA Cup slot, and he not only very quickly changed the club's performance and outlook, he built the foundations for the club's lasting success and financial security. (By comparison, Spurs finished 14th in two of Wenger's title-winning seasons - which certainly qualifies as "in danger of relegation" in my book - and you need look no further than Leeds for a perfect example of a club which flew too close to the sun without first building a solid foundation.) What happened to Chelsea this year is the realistic floor of clubs like Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea for the foreseeable future.The ramifications of change and a possible slide down the table seem obvious to me, though -- look where some clubs have gone following relegation and you can see why there's fear involved in change due to failure, especially when "failure" has been defined pretty far upwards with Arsenal these last several years.
You're just going to cherry-pick the first half of my first point and argue against it when the second half of that same point contains my rebuttal to your counter-argument? Really? I expect much better from you.Hmmm....
Like you agreed last week, a mid-table finish in the EPL is enough to turn a tiny profit, without the UCL.
Yeah I'm not sure you get how sports work.Don't even pretend you're not actually filled with happiness at each and every one of these sentences. So much to kvetch about! It's the salad days for mikeford.
Thanks for the heads up. Gonna look so cool in a 1913 retro shirt. So much cred.You miserable lot might be temporarily happy to know that all Arsenal gear is 50% off at Toffs right now. I've bought a couple of throwbacks from them over the past few years and it's really cool. Plus you never get weird looks for wearing last year's shirt when you're wearing a 1977 replica.
Previously worn by these chaps, presumably:Gonna look so cool in a 1913 retro shirt. So much cred.
Even better than that, check this one out:Welp, we're done here Arsene. You are officially the 2nd most deluded man on the planet behind the guy running motherfucking NORTH KOREA.
Arsène Wenger: Arsenal playing in a ‘very difficult climate’ at Emirates
Blaming the fans for your teams failures?
That's a paddlin'
Talk about tone deaf. I don't doubt he's telling the truth, but this is basically the inverse of his "I could have bought Messi when he was eight years old" schtick. I mean, just shut up already."When we built the stadium the banks demanded that I signed for five years," said the 66-year-old Frenchman.
"Do you want me to say how many clubs I turned down during that period?"