I think that it would be good for the Niners and the Giants, no more competition. The Giants has the entire Bay to themselves and I think that was their plan all along. I mean, if they wanted to share the area, they could have given the A's back their rights to San Jose, Oakland could have built their stadium there and the baseball world would have been fine. They didn't and now the A's move to Vegas.Oakland is going to go from having 3 major teams in the city to 0? At least the Warriors are still close but that kind of sucks. Is this good for Giants and Niners or irrelevant?
In their heyday, the Giants averaged 41k a night. They're currently at 28k a night for 2023. With so many people working a hybrid or full-remote schedule out here, I'm pessimistic that things are going to get better even if they are the only game in town. Maybe in the very long term you'll see Oakland kids root for the Giants, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Zaidi is building in a very similar way to Chaim, and the fans are about equally enthused with their teams.I think that it would be good for the Niners and the Giants, no more competition. The Giants has the entire Bay to themselves and I think that was their plan all along. I mean, if they wanted to share the area, they could have given the A's back their rights to San Jose, Oakland could have built their stadium there and the baseball world would have been fine. They didn't and now the A's move to Vegas.
But once competition is removed, rarely does an organization really grow. They get kinda fat and complacent.
Manfred said he was out at dinner with the owners during the game but read the coverage about the event.
"It was great," Manfred said. "It's great to see what is this year almost an average Major League Baseball crowd in the facility for one night. That's a great thing."
Hard to disagree with any of this, especially that the San Jose A's would have had a much better chance of long-term success than the Oakland A's.When the A’s moved from Kansas City to Oakland, ownership was betting that the Bay Area could support two MLB teams. That might have been a good bet if they had moved to San Jose, splitting the market on a north-south axis. Instead, they moved to Oakland and split the area on an east-west axis. Most of the economic growth in the area over the past 50 years has come west of the Bay (Silicon Valley, Marin County, and the area around San Jose).
The Giants aren’t going to give the A’s a do-over on that decision. So the A’s are stuck with the rump end of a market that arguably wasn’t large enough for two teams to begin with. Maybe it would work with taxpayer largesse, but state and local politicians are understandably not falling over themselves to out-do other cities to keep the A’s. So they’re leaving.
Since the turn of the century, the A’s have consistently charged ticket prices lower than the MLB average (despite being in a high-cost market) and drawn crowds smaller than the MLB average, despite fielding a good team for several of those years. John Fisher bought the team in 2005 knowing those constraints, so he deserves no sympathy, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that the East Bay would be a viable market with better ownership.
Giants attendance problems are probably because WFH is killing SF.On the other hand, now that they are mediocre, the Giants are drawing <30k crowds despite playing in a perfect baseball park, so it's possible there just aren't enough MLB fans out here to sustain two teams.
They got the bet wrong but it's arguably weird that the east side of the Bay had not prospered the same way SF and the west-south side have. A lot of the reason for that is underwhelming connectivity but for an area with some of the highest living costs in the country its weird Oakland hasn't benefitted so much.Hard to disagree with any of this, especially that the San Jose A's would have had a much better chance of long-term success than the Oakland A's.
League wide, 2023 attendance is below 2019 levels, but not as far below 2019 levels as those levels were below 2015 levels. And we’re down about 17% from the all-time league wide record set in 2007. Declining MLB attendance is a very long-term trend; COVID’s role is negligible.https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/37860762/nevada-governor-signs-bill-fund-las-vegas-stadium-athletics
Nevada Gov signed the bill. So I'm guessing it's over and the A's are going to Vegas.
Giants attendance problems are probably because WFH is killing SF.
My wife's favorite team is the Giants. We usually go and catch a few games every year especially if the Sox are in town. This will be the first time we don't go. SF is a hell hole. We've seen and done everything over the years there. Pretty sad about it.League wide, 2023 attendance is below 2019 levels, but not as far below 2019 levels as those levels were below 2015 levels. And we’re down about 17% from the all-time league wide record set in 2007. Declining MLB attendance is a very long-term trend; COVID’s role is negligible.
For a whole host of reasons, San Francisco has fared worse than the rest of the league lately. Lower office attendance is a factor; so is the mediocre on-field product; so are local concerns about crime.
I don’t understand the above. I have friends just back from a great long weekend in S.F.My wife's favorite team is the Giants. We usually go and catch a few games every year especially if the Sox are in town. This will be the first time we don't go. SF is a hell hole. We've seen and done everything over the years there. Pretty sad about it.
A close friend living there said it reminded of NYC in the late 80s when we both lived there. Certainly many more issues "than a few years ago," and not sure if things have stabilized yet, but still retained much of what made it a fine place to be at that time in our lives. (And the late 80s NYers would say, "you should've seen it in the mid 70s, just after the bankruptcy. This is nothing."Anyone describing SF as a "hell hole" is either being disingenuous or deeply lacks perspective.
This is the same thing I've heard from two different folks that are pretty normal, non-sky-is-falling people (brother in law, and a kids' friends' parent whose husband was on Obama's transition team) - both thought it was gross with a crazy amount of public hard drug use, and had no intention to go back anytime soonI just came back from SF Monday and spent 2 days there. It kind of sucks now. Downtown is desolate, the wharf area is grosser than ever, and inflation seems to have hit harder there than most other places in the country. Like everywhere else in California, homelessness is a huge problem. My last trip about 10 years ago was much nicer in every way.
Denver is the 17th largest metro area (CSA), and the smallest that has successfully supported teams in both the NBA and NHL.Everything I've read is that Nashville is the frontrunner for a team in the east, and I believe Manfred has said he'd add another in the west to balance it. In that case you'd have Portland and SLC as the top choices and they are pretty comparable. SLC's pitch is that, while a little smaller market than Portland, it has an ownership group, government support, a site for the ballpark, consistently strong economy, huge population growth (and not just enormous families, influx from other states is driving it too), and better weather. I'm not saying it's a slam dunk but that's the pitch and I'm more than a little biased in wanting to see it happen.
NHL probably makes more sense for the market but that's not really my thing so I haven't followed it closely, but I know the current Jazz owner has pushed hard to get the Coyotes.
Despite a wave of fan protests against team ownership this season, Fisher said: “I have not considered selling the team.”
[*]Fisher said the team is set to lose $40 million this year, and denied speculation that the A’s deliberately tanked the past two seasons to further justify relocation. “We have done everything we can to try and build ourselves back up to being a highly competitive team again,” he said.
He's not lying.If you're losing my, why wouldn't you sell the team? Unless you're lying out your ass to try and get sympathy. Except no one believes you or likes you.
THE A'S RELOCATION application, filed August 23, is notable for its omissions. There is no set ballpark design for the corner of Las Vegas Blvd. and Tropicana Ave. There is no indication whether the stadium will be domed or have a retractable roof, the only two options for a southern Nevada summer. There is no firm financing plan, although Fisher says he has been working with Goldman Sachs to finalize that part of the deal. And there is no defined site for where the A's will play during the three-year -- minimum -- interim between the expiration of their Coliseum lease after next season and the proposed opening of the Las Vegas stadium in 2028.
The A's have hired a construction developer but no architect. (Crane-climbing Ingels is among the finalists.) The team says MLB will make the determination on the team's temporary home, and an MLB source says the A's will need to provide answers to all of those open questions before the relocation committee can take up the team's request in earnest. Given those conditions, a November vote, or at least a fully informed November vote, seems wildly optimistic.
"It doesn't surprise me that the plan they proposed was half-baked," Thao says. "That's been their track record: half-baked plans."
Why should a franchise that's been around since 1901 and has a really good fanbase be contracted? The solution is for Fisher to sell the team, pocket his billions and fuck off to an island.Just contract them and then get the expansion $ from Portland
(And also expand in one of Nashville/Raleigh/Charlotte and in SLC)
Well sure, but I'm still butthurt from 88 and 90Why should a franchise that's been around since 1901 and has a really good fanbase be contracted? The solution is for Fisher to sell the team, pocket his billions and fuck off to an island.
Why is everyone so jacked up about Portland?Just contract them and then get the expansion $ from Portland
(And also expand in one of Nashville/Raleigh/Charlotte and in SLC)
Only because they’re “close” to Oakland and the “pacific northwest” only has one other team.Why is everyone so jacked up about Portland?
They’ve lost AAA teams twice…I put Nashville and SLC ahead of Portland for sure, Montreal too…
Now that the Tampa and Oakland problems seem to have been solved, we probably need a new “Expansion; Who’s Next?” thread capturing these discussions from the various potential relocation threads…Only because they’re “close” to Oakland and the “pacific northwest” only has one other team.
I think Nashville and Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte are all better and growing markets (and the latter two at least have great AAA urban stadia) but can’t have all new teams there to cannibalize each other
Yes SLC is a great idea
Probably Montreal too
So where are they playing in 2024?A’s move from Oakland to Las Vegas approved unanimously by MLB owners - The Athletic
Even without a solid plan to have a TV deal or fill the seats without expecting tourists to do it, the other owners approved.
OAK in 2024, but LV is not supposed to be ready until 2028. So for three years in between, it will be this ridiculousness:So where are they playing in 2024?
I mean moron Fisher:The A's potential relocation has not gone smoothly in any regard, but at some point it has to be the fault of the guy at the top, right? A's owner John Fisher has spent 18 years saying the team was going to move to Fremont or San Jose or Laney College before finally settling upon Howard Terminal not long before Covid hit. Instead of trying to build a ballpark, Fisher wanted to build an empire.
In Las Vegas he is getting a ballpark, but it will be on rented property. No surrounding development. None of the frills that were mandatory in Oakland. Just one crappy ballpark that has already changed sites once and has left the public waiting on renderings that the team doesn't consider trash. Those trash renderings were just used to secure $380 million from the Nevada legislature.
He is the real victim of this whole thing!That's the backdrop for John Fisher coming up to three A's fans on Tuesday night at the hotel that is playing host to the owner's meetings. Jared Isham, Gabriel Cullen and Jorge Leon arrived at 7 a.m. Fisher didn't get there until 7 p.m.
According to the San Francisco Chronicle, Fisher told them, "I just want to let you know I appreciate you guys being here, I appreciate the passion you have shown." He went on to say, "All that time it’s been a lot worse for me than it’s been for you."
The fans Fisher spoke to traveled on their own from the Bay Area to Texas to be there at the owner's meetings.Maybe John Fisher is talking about his legacy being tarnished throughout this process. Sure, that's a valid point. Fisher will be remembered in the area he grew up in as the man that ripped the A's out of Oakland. But A's fans didn't make him do that. They didn't set payroll limits or not invest in the team. They didn't spurn the fans at every corner, turning many of them away already, which has led to the crowd sizes of recent seasons.
A's fans didn't create John Fisher's legacy, and they sure didn't destroy it. He did. The fans just brought attention to it.
They were passing out a few personalized boxes to owners with a DVD, USB drive, T-shirts, Oakland caps, and bumper stickers identifying the reasons the A’s needed to stay in Oakland instead of moving to Las Vegas, only for hotel security to inform them that soliciting is prohibited at the hotel.
And there he was, entering the lobby at 7 p.m. local time, and after speaking to San Francisco Giants chairman Greg Johnson, walked to the bar, greeted the trio, and shook their hands.
It was as if he came over to apologize.
They asked, in a round-about way, whether anything can be done to save the team, with Leon saying, “Do the right thing.’’
“It’s been a lot worse for me than you,’’ Fisher told them. “Anyway, I just want to let you know I appreciate you guys being here, I appreciate the passion you have shown.’’
They thanked Fisher for coming over, and Isham said, “Can I ask you one question?’’
Fisher: “There’s never one question. I’ve got to go."
As he walked away, they then told him, almost in unison: “Do what’s right! Do what’s right!"
Cullen said afterwards: “I wanted to ask what it would take to get Oakland back to the table."
When Fisher departed, the trio said they definitely appreciated that Fisher would take the time to speak with them for five minutes, but reiterated they still have issues with the man.
“When everyone says he’s very genuine, which is true," Isham said, “but I don’t believe anything he said. I commend him for actually facing people that are protesting. But there’s only three of us. He had his security. At the same time, he could have just ignored us. So I will give him slight credit for that.
“But at the same time, there is an element of knowing it's genuine, but when the words sound genuine, but don’t match up with the facts that everyone has presented, something feels off."