Bill Simmons: Good Luck With Your Life.
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Looking up this shit is fun. It's not like he's doing archival research on hunger relied programs in subsaharan Africa. So would it kill him to do a good job?PC Drunken Friar said:
I mean, the late period, the belt only is held for a year or two at a time, which is in effect him just listing which action movie he liked from each years. Do you realize how much he for paid to do this? Let me pick three guys from the board, offer us collectively half the money and I say we do better.
Reverend said:
Exactly. This is a gimme column. You're right, it's FUN to revisit this stuff - rent a few movies, check IMDB/Wikipedia and have a few beers. He just got so much stuff flat-out WRONG. Combine that with the arrogance that so many other SoSHers have called him out on, and you have a disaster.
PC Drunken Friar said:
Only the action hero was supposed to be fictional.
There is nothing wrong with saluting Steve McQueen or, say, liking Batman better than Superman. But he came *this* close to saying "I like Batman better because of his vulnerability to kryptonite and the way his alter ego treated that nasty editor J. Jonah Jameson."
I have no problem with him making a list of action movies he likes and then telling us why he likes them. He built his entire empire on that kind of "analysis" and he can be good at it, when he wants to be. And I also don't expect him to have a academic understanding of every subgenre of the action flick, but he has to take other things into consideration when he's writing a piece like this or at least say, up front, "I'm sticking to what I've seen and what I liked. I understand there is a whole Asian form of action flicks that I don't know a ton about, but I'm writing about what I know."
However, that would mean that Simmons had to have a bit more self-awareness of himself and a bit more awareness of the world around him.
Which is something that he never, ever had. I remember him arguing with people back in his DC days that he never watched "The Simpsons" because "it's a cartoon and he doesn't like cartoons." If he can throw perhaps the most comedic transcendent show out the window because it's a "cartoon", it doesn't surprise me that he would say that Jackie Chan won his belt based on "Rush Hour 3" and not the dozens of better and more exciting flicks that he made overseas.
Also, he needed to stick to his rules more. I have no idea why Matt Damon isn't considered an action hero belt holder but Uma Thurman or Denzel Washington is.
However, that would mean that Simmons had to have a bit more self-awareness of himself and a bit more awareness of the world around him.
Which is something that he never, ever had. I remember him arguing with people back in his DC days that he never watched "The Simpsons" because "it's a cartoon and he doesn't like cartoons." If he can throw perhaps the most comedic transcendent show out the window because it's a "cartoon", it doesn't surprise me that he would say that Jackie Chan won his belt based on "Rush Hour 3" and not the dozens of better and more exciting flicks that he made overseas.
Also, he needed to stick to his rules more. I have no idea why Matt Damon isn't considered an action hero belt holder but Uma Thurman or Denzel Washington is.
I mean, he even fucks up Arnold Schwartzenegger, for Christ's sake.
"Kindergarten Cop" was, even moreso than "Twins" (which had cursing, explicit references to sex, and a lot more violence) Arnold's attempt to become something other than an action hero. It's a family movie by design.
Aside from a quick opening scene in which Arnold shoots a shotgun and the very end where he shoots his gun twice, there is no action.
None.
There are, however, countless scenes of Arnold doing cute with little kids and wooing a single mother.
joe dokes said:
J. Jonah Jameson was Spider-Man's editor. Thank you.
EDIT: ...or was the point? IM SO CONFUSED
IHateDaveKerpen said:
J. Jonah Jameson was Spider-Man's editor. Thank you.
EDIT: ...or was the point? IM SO CONFUSED
Look! Up in the sky! There goes my point! :colbert:
EDIT: Just caught your Edit. Yes it was my point. (Somedays I just out-oblique myself).
Someone needs to send Simmons a copy of Hard Boiled so that he can give the 1992 belt to Chow-Yun Fat, and not Clint for Unforgiven, which is a great movie, but is not an action film.
Bruce Lee really should have won for at least a year in the early 1970s.
I mean, for fuck's sake, he inspired a national martial arts craze in the U.S.!
I mean, for fuck's sake, he inspired a national martial arts craze in the U.S.!
drleather2001 said:
Yeah, but if Bill Simmons saw him in a bar, he couldn't believe that Bruce Lee would kick anyone's ass. Uma Thurman? That's a true ass-kicker.
And Danny Trejo and any other (non-white) guy not in a Hollywood movie with a budget over a $100 million dollars.drleather2001 said:
More to the point, when Bill was starting out he had no choice but to put together silly lists like this since he had little other resources and/or sources to lean on. At this point, 20 years later, he has a huge contact list and a pretty sizable resource cash pile to actually mount actual reporting or high level profiles like his Nash piece. This kind of column is, to be honest, a waste of his time and below his level. He's not in the basement anymore, he's an arena band. Start acting like one.
Hollywood believes a lot of shit movies deserve to get remade, and a Silent Rage remake is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a long, long time.
That column was unbelievably awful. And the thing is, its the sort of thing that really should be in his wheelhouse. This isn't "Bill Simmons went outside his comfort zone and it didn't work out." This is a fat pitch down the middle and he whiffed so badly it could cause an injury.
Its one thing to write a lazy, phoned in column where you blatantly don't do any research, don't make a single good point and contradict yourself repeatedly. Thousands of those are published every day. But most of them are least mercifully short. This felt fucking endless, and at a certain point I didn't even know why i was reading, apart from amazement out how bad it was.
Grantland has this column called HotSportsTakes, that basically intentionally publishes the worst possible sports columns (the one this week was a masterpiece http://grantland.com/the-triangle/hotsportstakes-does-andrew-wiggins-want-to-get-rich-or-get-better/). But the funny thing is, I'm pretty sure this column was unironically worse than any Hot Sports Takes ever. It was truly execrable garbage.
Its one thing to write a lazy, phoned in column where you blatantly don't do any research, don't make a single good point and contradict yourself repeatedly. Thousands of those are published every day. But most of them are least mercifully short. This felt fucking endless, and at a certain point I didn't even know why i was reading, apart from amazement out how bad it was.
Grantland has this column called HotSportsTakes, that basically intentionally publishes the worst possible sports columns (the one this week was a masterpiece http://grantland.com/the-triangle/hotsportstakes-does-andrew-wiggins-want-to-get-rich-or-get-better/). But the funny thing is, I'm pretty sure this column was unironically worse than any Hot Sports Takes ever. It was truly execrable garbage.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
His range of interests is remarkably narrow for someone who runs a pop culture website. No Simpsons, no Coen brothers, doesn't like sci-fi, doesn't like fantasy (as he often says "I don't want to be in the forest"), no kung-fu movies, barely likes Westerns, thinks Paul Thomas Anderson is too artsty fartsy, he's infrequently mentions music and he's mentioned fiction rarely if at all, etc., etc.
All so true.NatetheGreat said:
I'm hoping the reality is that he's outgrown this kind of crap and is ready to move on to something better. I hope he realizes this and pushes himself to become a better writer. If everyone around him at Grantland pats him on the back and tells him this was great then he is doomed to this kind of crap forever and he becomes the old guy at the club that everyone feels sorry for. At some point you need to graduate from this kind of thing. Maybe he needs an intervention?
Simmons just posted a podcast with Wesley Morris discussing this article. Morris deserves another pulitzer for his patience with Simmons on these podcasts.
Reverend said:
Well if you read his explanation as to why it makes perfect sense: only weird kids liked sci-fi at his school.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050601&num=0
Q: In the "More Cowbell" update on 5/23, you sort of implied you hadn't yet seen the new Star Wars movie (which is understandable, having a new baby and all). I'm sure many readers are curious as to your thoughts, but I'm specifically wondering as to your thoughts about its impact on sports. How many kids, from 1977 to this week, shunned sports growing up, either as participants or observers, because they were watching "Empire" for the 50th time, or were playing with their action figures or were discussing script rumors on the Internet? Now that the series is finally over, will the youth return to sports in record numbers? Or will they just latch on to something equally as tragic?
– Adam Woodyard, Dallas
SG: It's tough for me to comment since I was the same kid who probably watched 1,000 hours of pro wrestling growing up. And I don't know if everyone's elementary school worked like mine did. But in my school, the kids who liked "Star Wars" didn't like sports, and vice-versa. There were no crossovers. I just remember being totally confused by the whole thing – they kind of kept to themselves, almost like cross-dressers in a penitentiary, and it was like they were talking another language. Nobody really bothered them. But after elementary school, I made at least 4-5 friends who were sports fans and loved "Star Wars." So I think it depends on the school.
I look at it this way: Everyone needs something growing up. For some kids, it's sports. For other kids, it's "Lord of the Rings," "Star Wars" and whatever goofy fantasy thing is out there where you get to watch something 20 times, dress up like the characters and say things like, "The movie is coming out in three weeks, wanna go to our local theater and wait in line with 250 other guys?" Again, since I count Superfly Snuka and Hulk Hogan as two of the 10 most influential heroes from my childhood, I'm in no position to judge.
(As for your question, "Will they just latch on to something equally as tragic?" – the answer is obviously, "Unquestionably.")
Nerds are like cross-dressers who like to spend time in lines with 250 other guys. Sparkling commentary. And his wrestling references are the worst kind of self-deprecation because it's so palapably insincere. Clearly, he constructed an us vs. them mentality, placed himself on the 'cool' side, then sent a few light jabs his way to lessen the sting.
Right.
Simmons was born in 1969, so he was in elementary school and junior high from the time Star Wars first came out until ROTJ was released.
In other words, he was smack-dab in the prime Star Wars audience. I find it 100% implausible that the vast majority of kids that he went to school with weren't Star Wars fans on some level.
You're telling me that a sample of, say, 200, mostly white, middle class, 8-14 year olds between 1977 and 1983 had only a handful of "Star Wars" fans? That were ostracized on that basis? In elementary school?!?!?
My guy feeling is that Simmons was told by someone influential, probably his dad, early on that "Star Wars" was for nerds, and so he skipped out on the whole thing. Now, of course, it's much easier to just go on with the cliche "Sci Fi is for GEEKS!" nonsense than it is to admit that you missed out on the single fucking biggest cultural phenomenon of the last 40 years because you were too concerned with trying to be "cool".
Simmons was born in 1969, so he was in elementary school and junior high from the time Star Wars first came out until ROTJ was released.
In other words, he was smack-dab in the prime Star Wars audience. I find it 100% implausible that the vast majority of kids that he went to school with weren't Star Wars fans on some level.
You're telling me that a sample of, say, 200, mostly white, middle class, 8-14 year olds between 1977 and 1983 had only a handful of "Star Wars" fans? That were ostracized on that basis? In elementary school?!?!?
My guy feeling is that Simmons was told by someone influential, probably his dad, early on that "Star Wars" was for nerds, and so he skipped out on the whole thing. Now, of course, it's much easier to just go on with the cliche "Sci Fi is for GEEKS!" nonsense than it is to admit that you missed out on the single fucking biggest cultural phenomenon of the last 40 years because you were too concerned with trying to be "cool".
Beyond that, it's such an unnuanced approach to ditch a movie like Star Wars into some catch-all Sci fi bin. I remember being in high school watching the Super Bowl with a bunch of friends who were obviously sports fans and seeing the Matrix commercial for the first time. Dead silence, full attention. Everyone from my high school went. It wasn't a SciFi movie, it was a cultural phenomenon. You think Ray Lewis or Mike Tyson or the most badass macho person you can think of hasn't seen The Matrix. You're wrong.
I think drleather's take is right; it smacks of a try-hard too conscious of his imagine, both internal and external. Ooh, I can't watch Star Wars or people will think I'm a nerd, which I'm totally not, because I'm a cool kid.
And, yes, maybe in high school or junior high I wouldn't have run around this message board or real life talking about how much I love Archer and how I'll get down to Elton John and whatnot, but I'm a grown ass man and fairly comfortable in my skin, and would be far more ashamed of making the kind of sophomoric distinctions and generalizations he makes than saying that I listend to Dark Horse by Katy Perry on repeat for half an hour last night.
I think drleather's take is right; it smacks of a try-hard too conscious of his imagine, both internal and external. Ooh, I can't watch Star Wars or people will think I'm a nerd, which I'm totally not, because I'm a cool kid.
And, yes, maybe in high school or junior high I wouldn't have run around this message board or real life talking about how much I love Archer and how I'll get down to Elton John and whatnot, but I'm a grown ass man and fairly comfortable in my skin, and would be far more ashamed of making the kind of sophomoric distinctions and generalizations he makes than saying that I listend to Dark Horse by Katy Perry on repeat for half an hour last night.
I know I shouldn't be butthurt about an omission, but fuck - I'm currently watching "Enter the Dragon" after a looooooong week of teaching.
How Lee is only briefly mentioned in Simmons's column is totally beyond me. For Western audiences, at least, this movie was revolutionary.
How Lee is only briefly mentioned in Simmons's column is totally beyond me. For Western audiences, at least, this movie was revolutionary.
I'm a little younger than Bill but not by much. I'm pretty sure we spent quite a bit of time unbeknownst to each other in the Chestnut Hill Mall. I don't know what Bill's memories are of that period but I can say for sure that if you were a boy during that time period all everybody cared about was sports and Star Wars and it was not at all, not even the slightest bit, of a split camp. I hung out playing sports with older kids and all they cared about was sports and Star Wars (and girls). Bill is creating a false narrative or his memory is fucked.
I'm normally a Simmons defender, but not having read this article I'd like to thank everyone at SOSH from saving me from a rabbit hole of suck.
On a side note, that question about kids going outside again after the Star Wars series ended is seriously the stupidest thing I've read in weeks. And I'm a lawyer.
"Hey, now that the Super Bowl is over, will high school science scores go up, or will 16 year olds find some other reason to procrastinate?"
"Hey, now that the Super Bowl is over, will high school science scores go up, or will 16 year olds find some other reason to procrastinate?"
Shelterdog said:
Holy crap is that dumb. He does some pretty oblivious to his own subjectivity sometimes, doesn't he?
And I was just making fun of him failing to recognize that Total Recall and the Terminator movies are sci-fi.
JimD said:
It's not even debatable. Star Wars was followed by everyone. The sports kids didn't ignore it b/c they played sports. There is no way his school was like that and he's being dishonest and a poser. It's a solid one two punch of douchiness.
Even RIGHT NOW every kid in elementary school loves both Star Wars and sports.
Elementary school?!?!?
If you can find me an elementary school boy (or, really, any kid - my daughter loves Star Wars, but let's just say boys) who doesn't think a light saber is the most awesome thing on the face of the planet when he sees it in action, I'd be shocked.
Is it possible he hasn't shown his kids the Star Wars movies?
Elementary school?!?!?
If you can find me an elementary school boy (or, really, any kid - my daughter loves Star Wars, but let's just say boys) who doesn't think a light saber is the most awesome thing on the face of the planet when he sees it in action, I'd be shocked.
Is it possible he hasn't shown his kids the Star Wars movies?
I'd just like to pop in and say that I think Star Wars sucks and also thought this as a kid (in the 90's). So, no, not every kid today likes that crap, though many of my friends did. All the other points you guys have made stand, but I'd just like to caution against going the same direction Bill went and assuming every child is still into Star Wars.
Now I have to go look for the Trek vs. Wars thread that's surely buried somewhere on SoSH. This got me all primed for that debate even though I know no one in this thread wants to have it.
Now I have to go look for the Trek vs. Wars thread that's surely buried somewhere on SoSH. This got me all primed for that debate even though I know no one in this thread wants to have it.
You're welcome. I know discussing the latest shitty Bill Simmons article is of utmost importance and I would never want to do anything to distract attention from that. I feel really, really bad about it. I hope you can forgive me.
Premise: Star Wars was super, historically, popular during the late 70s and early 80s. It's impossible that a group of child fans of Star Wars during that time would feel like social outcasts because they liked the most popular movie franchise ever as it was being released.
Cromulence: I grew up at a period when Star Wars wasn't as popular as it was when Simmons was a kid and I didn't like it. But a lot of people I know did. So, um, ya. Star Trek. Simmons rulez.
Cromulence: I grew up at a period when Star Wars wasn't as popular as it was when Simmons was a kid and I didn't like it. But a lot of people I know did. So, um, ya. Star Trek. Simmons rulez.
My apologies, doc. I know that with Peter King out of commission for a week you need someone else's writing to piss and moan over. I'll stay out of your way.
I would have a ton of respect for Simmons if he chose a word that originated on the Simpsons as his handle.
URI said:
Unless he cracks and does watch something people told him is good, like the Wire. Then he sings from the rooftops about its brilliance. It's a weird disconnect.
"I watch the NCAA tournament like I watch the Real World now. It's just a feeder system for the NBA like the Real World is a feeder system for the Challenge"
No, that joke was funny when you made it the other way around 5 years ago about The Challenge. Now it just doesn't make sense the 500 times you say it this spring
No, that joke was funny when you made it the other way around 5 years ago about The Challenge. Now it just doesn't make sense the 500 times you say it this spring