Bill Simmons: Good Luck With Your Life.

[Leather]

I've only seen a couple of "30 for 30"s, not because I don't think they are good, but just because I haven't had the time/opportunity to yet.   I do think they are a good idea, and Simmons deserves credit for whatever his input was into them.
 
But, at the same time, I think people here are grossly inflating what that input actually is.  He's an executive producer. So is John Dahl.  So is Connor Schell.  So is Joan Lynch (26 episodes).  And there are about two dozen other producers for a smaller number of episodes.   The 30 for 30 shorts are done in conjunction with Grantland, which Simmons is ostensibly in charge of, yes.  But again: he's not writing the things, or directing them, or editing them.  Do people who watch Mad Men credit the CEO of AMC for the great series?  No.  They credit Matthew Wiener.
 
Again, he's obviously had some role, and that's great.  Way to go, Bill.  But let's stop talking about him like he's the Francis Ford Coppola of sports films.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Fair point.  I almost added an "edit" noting that I have no clue how much (or how little) credit that Simmons should get for 30 for 30. 

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Bill apparently has a piece up today entitled "Legacy Check" with the heading reading "As the NBA finals head back to Miami for Game 6, just about everyone on the floor has something to prove."
 
Meanwhile, Zach Lowe, one of the better basketball writers/analysts out there, opens his piece on game six by saying "You don't need me to tell you how much is at stake tonight, and potentially in Game 7 on Thursday, for everyone involved in this series."
 
Well, fortunately Zach, your site has just the guy to write that softball article. Let me guess...3500 words, a bunch of "theories", a series of reaches for comparisons, including historical and cross sport/cultural, and some unfunny nicknames that only Bill and House know about. And at least one mention of a girl Bill thought was hot when he was 17.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Eh, Broke was okay.  It was a C+ effort.  It wasn't awful by any stretch.

No, it was awful by every stretch.  If "Broke" was a C+ for you then I guess I do understand you thinking the series has "saved sports documentaries."

 

[kenneycb]

Thanks for being the arbiter on opinions!

 

[CaptainLaddie]

No, it was awful by every stretch.  If "Broke" was a C+ for you then I guess I do understand you thinking the series has "saved sports documentaries."

It was a 6.5 on IMDB.  That's not awful.  That's pretty much "C+" in every sense.
 
Other than HBO, sports docs have disappeared for the most part.  Then 30 for 30 came along and the VAST majority of them have been very good to excellent.  There are clunkers.  But even ones like "Broke" were hardly awful.  I guess we'll have to disagree about the quality of something.

 

[ForKeeps]

I haven't seen them all but there are about 2 or 3 that are rise above mildly entertaining trifle and are actually interesting on an artistic level. June 17 was one, the one on fantasy  baseball (which i think most people hated, and I have zero interest in fantasy baseball), etc.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

'Flubber' has a 4.8 on IMDB.

 

[shoosh77]

And how about this (could also go in the ESPN = Pathetic forum)

 
 

 
http://deadspin.com/espn-cuts-off-bill-simmons-just-as-hes-about-to-addres-527260514

 

[blueline]

Even better
 
http://deadspin.com/espn-cutting-off-bill-simmons-calls-for-a-sopranos-paro-531370988

 

[ifmanis5]

ESPN honcho John Skipper on Bill Simmons:
 

I'm personally very fond of Bill. He's done a lot for our company. It has been about 99.8 percent great.

 
Compusult?
 
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/espn-john-skipper-keith-olbermann-574231?page=2

 

[JBill]

Remove Magic from the equation and Simmons isn't half bad. I think he's been much better with Jalen, Bilas, and Rece doing the draft than he has all season with the regular countdown crew.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Simmons has been A++ tonight.

 

[Marciano490]

Doc Rivers is too classy to call Simmons an idiot, but he'd like to!
 
http://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/28/4473148/doc-rivers-on-bill-simmons-i-would-like-to-call-him-an-idiot-but-im

 

[nattysez]

This is good TV, simply put.  http://deadspin.com/rivers-i-would-like-to-call-simmons-an-idiot-simm-605489630
 
Simmons is completely right to call out Doc on his b.s., and only a guy who honestly doesn't care whether he's back on TV in the future would be as forceful as Simmons was.  Good on him.

 

[Stevie1der]

This is one of those situations where I feel like both sides have a leg to stand on. Doc is right, Simmons doesn't know the whole story and probably never will know the extent to which this move to LA was mutually decided by both Doc (not wanting to be part of a rebuild) and Ainge (not wanting to pay a coach so much for a rebuild tank job). On the other hand, Simmons is right in that Doc's camp has failed in staying on message and keeping to a consistent narrative to the point of damaging his credibility through this whole ordeal.

 

[Bleedred]

This is one of those situations where I feel like both sides have a leg to stand on. Doc is right, Simmons doesn't know the whole story and probably never will know the extent to which this move to LA was mutually decided by both Doc (not wanting to be part of a rebuild) and Ainge (not wanting to pay a coach so much for a rebuild tank job). On the other hand, Simmons is right in that Doc's camp has failed in staying on message and keeping to a consistent narrative to the point of damaging his credibility through this whole ordeal.

While maybe so, Simmons can only go on what has been disclosed publicly, and he's 100% right IMO that Doc has been all over the map on what Doc's position was, is and has been.  Simmons has way too thin a skin on a lot of issues, but I was really impressed last night that he stuck to his guns and actually cut off Rece to make clear that Doc should simply own up to wanting out.  I understand why Doc wanted out and don't begrudge him that.  What I think is weak is Doc's mealy mouthed bullshit (IMO) on why he's gone.  I've always considered him a straight shooter, and in this instance, I think he's been anything but.

 

[Stevie1der]

While maybe so, Simmons can only go on what has been disclosed publicly, and he's 100% right IMO that Doc has been all over the map on what Doc's position was, is and has been.  Simmons has way too thin a skin on a lot of issues, but I was really impressed last night that he stuck to his guns and actually cut off Rece to make clear that Doc should simply own up to wanting out.  I understand why Doc wanted out and don't begrudge him that.  What I think is weak is Doc's mealy mouthed bullshit (IMO) on why he's gone.  I've always considered him a straight shooter, and in this instance, I think he's been anything but.

 
I'm with you, I thought Simmons came off very well in that exchange, particularly following Doc's douchebaggy "I'm too classy to call him an idiot, but he's an idiot" comment (speaking of mealy mouthed).

 

[The Social Chair]

I thought Simmons overzealous fandom was completely out of place last night for what should be analytical role on draft night. Does anybody but Boston fans cares why Doc left?

 

[bougrj1]

I thought Simmons overzealous fandom was completely out of place last night for what should be analytical role on draft night. Does anybody but Boston fans cares why Doc left?

 
Completely disagree.  I don't need another "analyst" talking about upside and wingspan.  He's a fan that knows a lot about basketball and he has a point when he talks about Doc.  I thought he did really well last night.

 

[ifmanis5]

Big picture, it is funny to See Bill call out Doc for abandoning Boston to move to LA for a new job. Hey, it worked for you, Bill.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I thought Simmons overzealous fandom was completely out of place last night for what should be analytical role on draft night. Does anybody but Boston fans cares why Doc left?

 
Simmons provides plenty of analysis but with a perspective, and savvy enough not to take the whole thing seriously. Simmons & Rose makes a great team and ESPN is just dumb enough not to bring them back.
 
It was goddamn entertaining and refreshing for what could have been a shitshow (looking at you, Shane Battier)

 

[JBill]

On the Dan Patrick show today, Doc pulls the "he's a fan, not an analyst" card about Simmons, and says Simmons ruined the broadcast:

http://nesn.com/2013/06/doc-rivers-goes-after-bill-simmons-again-says-he-kind-of-ruined-the-nba-draft-broadcast/2/

 

[ifmanis5]

On the Dan Patrick show today, Doc pulls the "he's a fan, not an analyst" card about Simmons, and says Simmons ruined the broadcast:

http://nesn.com/2013/06/doc-rivers-goes-after-bill-simmons-again-says-he-kind-of-ruined-the-nba-draft-broadcast/2/

That's weak sauce. Bill's been an established media pro for about a decade now, he's not some 'fan.'
I may have some issues with Bill but he's more than qualified to call out Doc if he sees fit. Doc should address the criticism and not the critic; he's the one who is making this personal.

 

[The Social Chair]

  He's a fan that knows a lot about basketball and he has a point when he talks about Doc.

 
That's debatable.

 

[PBDWake]

If Bill Simmons isn't qualified to talk about basketball, why is Doc talking to Dan Patrick? Are Patrick's credentials in the media any more impressive than Simmons? Simmons credentials are at this point no less than almost all of the big columnists who write about basketball.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

That's debatable.

 
No, I don't really think it is, actually. Go listen to his podcast with Bob Ryan and listen to the respect Ryan has for Simmons' basketball knowledge and then tell me Simmons doesn't know a lot about basketball. Call him a weeny or a self-centered dink or lazy or whatever you want, but the guy knows his basketball. 

 

[LMontro]

Huge difference between writing a ton of words about basketball and watching a lot of basketball vs KNOWING a lot about basketball.  
 
Also, clearly this goes beyond last night between Doc and BS.  

 

[jose melendez]

Of course, the issue he was ripping Doc on wasn't even a basketball issue, it was a business issue, so even if that critique was valid it doesn't hold much water.

 

[Orel Miraculous]

Huge difference between writing a ton of words about basketball and watching a lot of basketball vs KNOWING a lot about basketball.  

 
What do you want, Simmons to have to pass some kind of multiple-choice test to prove to you he knows basketball.  The dude wrote a 700 freaking page book about basketball.  Unless 650 pages of that book looked like this:

 

basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball
basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball

 
i'm gonna go ahead and say Bill Simmons knows a lot about basketball.

 

[bankshot1]

Simmons showed a lot of balls last night, ripping into Doc, who (probably) jumped ship, and who probably has the ability to make life difficult for media guys who don't play nice.  

 

[Myt1]

I thought Simmons overzealous fandom was completely out of place last night for what should be analytical role on draft night. Does anybody but Boston fans cares why Doc left?

 
ESPN's top headline this season was often what Dwight Howard had for breakfast and how that affected his relationship with Kobe.  This is quite a bit more substantive.

 

[Bleedred]

Big picture, it is funny to See Bill call out Doc for abandoning Boston to move to LA for a new job. Hey, it worked for you, Bill.

Not sure if you were being serious about the analogy, but I don't believe Simmons had a 5 year contract to make him the highest paid sports journalist in the history of sports journalism, only to jump ship after 2 years because the medium he worked for was no longer the best selling/viewed medium.  In other words, your analogy is silly.

 

[dylanmarsh]

Ben Rohrbach
‏@brohrbach
21m


Doc on @WEEI about @BillSimmons: "He did everything he could to get me fired. Wrote letters, wanted to sit down w/ owners to talk about it."

Retweeted by Bill Simmons
 

Bill Simmons
‏@BillSimmons

1m
The quote I just retweeted is an outright, 100 percent lie. I'd be careful, Glenn. Seriously. Stop talking. You are making sh*t up.

 

[Fishercat]

I don't consider myself a huge Bill Simmons fan, but he was the primary reason I continued to watch the draft and I felt like he was the only one who was offering much of anything interesting to chew on. I like that he's willing to stand up to Rivers on this when it would be way easier for him to back down.
 
And I suspect Simmons knows more about the story than Doc thinks he knows. He's not an NBA insider reporter but he's still closer to some major figures on both sides of the equation than most media members are.

 

[jon abbey]

Of course this has the potential to be a fantastic continuing story since Simmons has season tickets to the Clippers, right up front. 

 

[leetinsley38]

Last night tied for the highest rated draft since 2003 (when they started televising them).  And this was widely regarded as the weakest draft in quite a while.   Have to think the Simmons angle played a factor in drawing those numbers.  He did a ton of draft buildup work on Grantland and the podcast to hype it up too.
 
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/06/28/nba-draft-on-espn-tied-for-highest-rated-since-2003/189534/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Tvbythenumbers+(TVbytheNumbers)

 

[The Social Chair]

No, I don't really think it is, actually. Go listen to his podcast with Bob Ryan and listen to the respect Ryan has for Simmons' basketball knowledge and then tell me Simmons doesn't know a lot about basketball. Call him a weeny or a self-centered dink or lazy or whatever you want, but the guy knows his basketball. 

I did listen to that, and I also listened to the Zach Lowe podcasts where his knowledge sounds extrememly limited.

 

[The Social Chair]

Not sure if you were being serious about the analogy, but I don't believe Simmons had a 5 year contract to make him the highest paid sports journalist in the history of sports journalism, only to jump ship after 2 years because the medium he worked for was no longer the best selling/viewed medium.  In other words, your analogy is silly.

 
 Simmons moved to LA to write for a tv show after ESPN had given him a big contract to be the boston sports guy.

 

[JBill]

When Doc says Bill "wrote letters" and tried to lobby ownership, does he mean via his column? I find it hard to believe Bill was sneakily trying to get Doc fired.

Doc has mentioned Simmons in just about every interview today, and I know he's getting asked about it and is trying to deflect the "quitting" angle, but I don't think he's helping himself out.

 

[knucklecup]

Doc should address the criticism and not the critic; he's the one who is making this personal.

 
This is the best quote I've seen on this issue the last 24 hours.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

I have a vague inkling that SImmons is pretty tight with the Grousbecks/Pagliuca, does anyone know if this is true?

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Completely disagree.  I don't need another "analyst" talking about upside and wingspan.  He's a fan that knows a lot about basketball and he has a point when he talks about Doc.  I thought he did really well last night.

 

Exactly.  While Bilas and Rose were careful not to say someone sucked, Simmons didn't give a shit.  I like that.  It's like Barkley.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

"Don't get fired."

 

[Clears Cleaver]

I have a vague inkling that SImmons is pretty tight with the Grousbecks/Pagliuca, does anyone know if this is true?

 
this is true

 

[DannyDarwinism]

this is true

 
Ok, thanks.  Which is not to say he's a mouthpiece, but it's important to consider where he's likely getting his information from.

 

[ifmanis5]

"Don't get fired."

Exactly. Just about everybody in the media plays Cover Your Ass like a politician at all times, especially on tv. It was refreshing to hear Bill call it like he sees it with not much filter. It's the best thing he's done since he wrote the PEDs column. I hope they give him another draft.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

 Simmons moved to LA to write for a tv show after ESPN had given him a big contract to be the boston sports guy.

 
What the FUCK does this have to do with Doc joining the Clips except for the location? 

 

[Cellar-Door]

 Simmons moved to LA to write for a tv show after ESPN had given him a big contract to be the boston sports guy.

Except they didn't, the "boston sports guy" was pre-ESPN. ESPN hired him to be a mainstream sports and culture humorous columnist, he then moved to LA to write for a TV show while still providing his required ESPN content. It is in no way similar to the Doc situation. A similar situation would have been if he left to write for Yahoo or CBS Sports.

 

[joe dokes]

Didn't Simmons spend the first three years of the Rivers era wrting columns about how he and his Dad would have to hold each others' hands (figuratively, if not literally) because of how 'fraid they were that River the Coach was going to do something so incredibly stupid that would cause Simmons to have to dive into the pool at melrose Place all by himslef and all of the other kids at the Greenwich Country Day Playground Reunion would laugh at him.
 
So if he is tight with Pagliuca, who's to say that he wasn't repeating the stuff that was buried within the 4 trillion words of his columns directly to pagliuca?  Whatever you are I might think of him, Simmons certainly doesn's lack for feelings of self-importance. ("House & Bugeye &  Giacomo & Jimbo and I played blackjack for 20 hours. 20 HOURS! The other people at the casino looked at us like we were [fill in 90s TV show reference here].
 
Simmons problem isn; that he doesn;t know basketball. He does. Its that he thinks that everything he knows/does/says is unique to him. It became a terrible turnoff and I have ignored him for the last several years as a result.