Broncos fire coaching staff: Nothing beats that new coach smell

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Yes, this is where I'm at.

John Fox is a great person and a solid NFL Head Coach. He excels at the tasks of managing the logistics of a large endeavor. But he is not a tactician nor is he a motivator. He has zero killer instinct shrugs off defeat without spending time focused on fixing the things that made you lose. He and his staff are terrible at in-game adjustments and when you play the toughest teams in the playoffs, you lose if you can't adjust.

He was a great hire to get the team through the McDamnit aftermath and did a great job making chicken salad out of Tebow's chicken shit. He did a good job piloting the team to lots of wins against weaker teams and won a few tough ones against top opponents, but he could not do that consistently enough to accomplish the only goal: a SB win. His teams have been loaded with talent but soft as silk.

John Elway is still new to GMing, but so far it is clear that he still has the burning drive to win. Bronco losses piss him off still. That is undeniably the biggest difference between Elway and Fox. Two days after last year's SB humiliation, Fox and Elway sat at their season-ending press conference and Fox was asked to assess the season. Just hours after an epic fail in every fashion, Fox said "We went 13-3 and made it to the SB. I'd say that the season was not too shabby." Elway visibly clenched his jaw at "not too shabby". The difference between the two men is spelled out right there.

Fox is OK with almost winning. Elway is not.

Sunday's mailed in game plan and failure to adjust was the final straw for me and apparently for Elway. Fox was not a bad coach, but he wasn't good enough for a team built to win it all in a rapidly closing (and probably already closed, to be honest) window. I wish him well, but now I want a coach with drive, killer instinct and an ability to adapt mid game when needed.

Not Too Shabby Fox is probably a good man to right the ship in Chicago, but I doubt he'll lead them to a Lombardi.

That Not Too Shabby episode would have driven me crazy as a fan.

If one of Elway's knocks on Fox involves game planning and in game adjustments, with the postseason losses the last two years the prime examples, then could he really be high on Gase?

 

[86spike]

That Not Too Shabby episode would have driven me crazy as a fan.
If one of Elway's knocks on Fox involves game planning and in game adjustments, with the postseason losses the last two years the prime examples, then could he really be high on Gase?

Can you imagine BB saying something like that after a SB loss?

As for Gase, I don't think Elway is interested. In the same story where Elway revealed that he had grabbed Manning to tell him he needed to use the run more (which, BTW, was written after a supposed-to-be-closed-door lunch with some team advertising partners in which a radio personality was in the room who swore that Elway definitely knew he was there so clearly wanted this stuff leaked), Elway told the room that when he told Fox's staff to start running more, Gase scoffed and said "what are we supposed to run it on every play now?".

I highly doubt Elway is hiring Gase.

Reportedly Gase will have a 2nd interview with SF tomorrow, so I guess we'll know soon.

 

[Stitch01]

Terrible maybe for 1 year  sure but elway is a top 4 gm   if OZ works  by 2018 watch out    look at the way denver is sit up with the cap   30 mil of room  and 46 mil if manning goes    Todd bowles could work

That's sort of the crux of the problem though, winning without a quarterback is tough and chances are Osweiller isn't very good. Probably should have said mediocre for several years rather than terrible but the list of teams that are able to rebuild on the fly is pretty short and Elway doesn't have Brady, Ozzie Newsome and Flacco or the next Andrew Luck.

Think spike nailed the John Fox description exactly although I think Oakland is a better fit than Chicago if he's willing to stay in division.

 

[86spike]

That's sort of the crux of the problem though, winning without a quarterback is tough and chances are Osweiller isn't very good. Probably should have said mediocre for several years rather than terrible but the list of teams that are able to rebuild on the fly is pretty short and Elway doesn't have Brady, Ozzie Newsome and Flacco or the next Andrew Luck.
Think spike nailed the John Fox description exactly although I think Oakland is a better fit than Chicago if he's willing to stay in division.

Del Rio is probably getting the Raider job.

 

[DanoooME]

So it has to be EITHER Gase or Del Rio staying, right?
 
Wow -- the entire staff? 
If Manning retires at least one of the Thomases gone. Denver has some serious decisions ahead as the list of their FA is a doozer: 

• Wes Welker
• D. Thomas
• J. Thomas
• Pot Roast Knighton
• Rahim Moore
• Orlando Franklin

That's 6 starters about to hit the open market: http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/denver-broncos/

 
Really, the key signings for them are Demaryius Thomas and Pot Roast.  Welker is toast and expensive.  Julius Thomas is soft and Elway will let someone else overpay him.  Rahim "The Dream" is overpaid and overrated.  And Orlando Franklin should be lucky if someone offers him a practice squad slot.  He's the OL equivalent of that shitty game Talib played yesterday.

 

[j-man]

 
Really, the key signings for them are Demaryius Thomas and Pot Roast.  Welker is toast and expensive.  Julius Thomas is soft and Elway will let someone else overpay him.  Rahim "The Dream" is overpaid and overrated.  And Orlando Franklin should be lucky if someone offers him a practice squad slot.  He's the OL equivalent of that shitty game Talib played yesterday.

Franklin is a really good run blocker   right on J Thomas Moore welker   Pot Roast is gone to oakland   unless denver  gives 10 mil a year      DT is worth 11-12 mil a year  anymore and he will be overpaid   DT cost himself 2 mil yesterday     Tailb is a real good num 2 CB  C Harris and roby are better   

 

[86spike]

Franklin is a really good run blocker   right on J Thomas Moore welker   Pot Roast is gone to oakland   unless denver  gives 10 mil a year      DT is worth 11-12 mil a year  anymore and he will be overpaid   DT cost himself 2 mil yesterday     Tailb is a real good num 2 CB  C Harris and roby are better

What do think Elway will do with Clady? He's a shell of his former self and will be a big cap clogger. I could see him cut to make room for keeping the skill guys.

The o-line needs a major overhaul anyway.

 

[j-man]

thanks for over the cap.com    denver can cut r clady and save like 8.5 mil   

 

[j-man]

What do think Elway will do with Clady? He's a shell of his former self and will be a big cap clogger. I could see him cut to make room for keeping the skill guys.

The o-line needs a major overhaul anyway.

love the guy but i wouild cut him    maybe he wouild re-do his deal   

 

[j-man]

love the guy but i wouild cut him    maybe he wouild re-do his deal   

u are right on the overhaul     we need at least 2 or 3 o-lineman in the draft FA   

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Franklin is a really good run blocker   right on J Thomas Moore welker   Pot Roast is gone to oakland   unless denver  gives 10 mil a year      DT is worth 11-12 mil a year  anymore and he will be overpaid   DT cost himself 2 mil yesterday     Tailb is a real good num 2 CB  C Harris and roby are better   

You make some good points, but claiming Roby is better than Talib isn't one of them.  
 
If Del Rio ends up as the Raider coach, Knighton signing there makes a lot of sense.  He has played under Del Rio his entire career and Oakland has tons of space and needs help on the DLine.  Not re-signing Welker is a no-brainer.  Clady needs to go.  

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Yep. They tried sensibly to fix SB blowout, only to end up with a bigger fail, attributable mainly to the QB. But their defense wasn't exactly lights out yesterday either. You expect them to score more than 24, but yesterday was a game that really needed to be won with a running game and defense. Though they were not likely to survive Foxborough anyway.

 
Let's give the Indy defense some credit.  Here was Denver's drive results, through the 3rd quarter or so:
 

 
That was followed by a long drive for a FG, a punt (?!), a turnover on downs by a few inches, and the end of the game.
 
Just an incredibly dominant job by the Indy defense.  Defensed passes, blanketed receivers, and a solid pass rush.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Maybe they lure Manning back by trading a first rounder to DET for Jim Caldwell.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Let's give the Indy defense some credit.  Here was Denver's drive results, through the 3rd quarter or so:
 

 
That was followed by a long drive for a FG, a punt (?!), a turnover on downs by a few inches, and the end of the game.
 
Just an incredibly dominant job by the Indy defense.  Defensed passes, blanketed receivers, and a solid pass rush.

 
You are aware that Denver's QB couldn't throw, right?

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

 
Let's give the Indy defense some credit.  Here was Denver's drive results, through the 3rd quarter or so:
 

 
That was followed by a long drive for a FG, a punt (?!), a turnover on downs by a few inches, and the end of the game.
 
Just an incredibly dominant job by the Indy defense.  Defensed passes, blanketed receivers, and a solid pass rush.

 
Did you actually watch the game? Or only read the stats?

 

[LondonSox]

And by the Chargers coming off a 14-2 season.

AND by Washington after a single 500 season (where he won 8 of his last 11 games and appeared to be moving in the right direction)
 
That dude either pissed off EVERYONE or has some bad luck.

 

[jsinger121]

AND by Washington after a single 500 season (where he won 8 of his last 11 games and appeared to be moving in the right direction)
 
That dude either pissed off EVERYONE or has some bad luck.

 
Or he is an average coach. You need balls to win a championship and Marty is just too conservative a coach.

 

[DJnVa]

 
Let's give the Indy defense some credit.  Here was Denver's drive results, through the 3rd quarter or so:
 

 
That was followed by a long drive for a FG, a punt (?!), a turnover on downs by a few inches, and the end of the game.
 
Just an incredibly dominant job by the Indy defense.  Defensed passes, blanketed receivers, and a solid pass rush.

 

I've never seen a defense put up numbers like that and not look dominant. Until that game.
 
Manning's throws looked like the guy at the booth at the minor league ball game telling his girl he could throw the ball 85 mph and humping it up there at 55. There was nothing on them and that makes him easy to defend. DBs had time to recover.
 
I'll join the chorus--did you watch?

 

[lostjumper]

At one point in the 4th quarter Denver went 3 wide. Indy answered by putting 10 men on the line of scrimmage, and 1 safety about 15 yards back. Never seen that before in an NFL game. It was clear that Indy had no respect for Peyton's arm. All the DB's were in press coverage and no one was worried about getting beat deep because they knew Peyton couldn't throw it that far.

 

[Saints Rest]

At one point in the 4th quarter Denver went 3 wide. Indy answered by putting 10 men on the line of scrimmage, and 1 safety about 15 yards back. Never seen that before in an NFL game. It was clear that Indy had no respect for Peyton's arm. All the DB's were in press coverage and no one was worried about getting beat deep because they knew Peyton couldn't throw it that far.

Sadly I remember the Steelers playing this against the Pats a few years ago. I don't remember the year (I'm guessing it was 2011) but it made it clear that the Pats had no one who could beat press coverage.

 

[Stitch01]

Broncos seeking permission to interview Kubiak.  Not sure that's the guy Id look to if I had Elway's concerns about teams showing up flat and not being mentally tough in big games and not adjusting in game.  Kubiak's teams folded against Indianapolis in every possible way for the better part of a decade when that was the Texans big division rival and we saw them come to Foxboro twice in 2012 with similar results.

 

[DJnVa]

Maybe Elway just wants a cool letterman's jacket.

 

[soxfan121]

 
Or he is an average coach. You need balls to win a championship and Marty is just too conservative a coach.

 
The bold is truth. 
 
Marty was better than average - the original Cleveland teams in the 80s were really good, he was the only person to be competitive in Washington and his San Diego tenure produced above-average regular season results. He was a very good coach. But the bold keeps him out of the "great or better" conversation. 

Like, is he better than Fox? Perhaps...perhaps not. Fox has two SB appearances but less of an overall track record. 

 

[soxfan121]

Broncos seeking permission to interview Kubiak.  Not sure that's the guy Id look to if I had Elway's concerns about teams showing up flat and not being mentally tough in big games and not adjusting in game.  Kubiak's teams folded against Indianapolis in every possible way for the better part of a decade when that was the Texans big division rival and we saw them come to Foxboro twice in 2012 with similar results.

 
The "Elway is a genius" stuff is such a lie. Elway bringing in his backup QB to be the coach? When said backup is a proven mediocrity with a track record (above) that screams "it is what it is!"?
 
Stitch nails it. If the concerns include not being mentally tough enough then you couldn't find a worse candidate than Kubiak. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

Kubiak sounds like he's hand-picked for Manning.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

You are aware that Denver's QB couldn't throw, right?

 

Did you actually watch the game? Or only read the stats?

 

I've never seen a defense put up numbers like that and not look dominant. Until that game.
 
Manning's throws looked like the guy at the booth at the minor league ball game telling his girl he could throw the ball 85 mph and humping it up there at 55. There was nothing on them and that makes him easy to defend. DBs had time to recover.
 
I'll join the chorus--did you watch?

 
Yes, you jerks - I watched the game.  I did so without joining the amen corner of the game thread, so I'm unaware of whatever groupthink or conventional-wisdom came out of that.  And I saw Manning make a few throws behind receivers, or sideline throws where it ended out of bounds... but it didn't seem all that different, frankly, from the misfires that Tom Brady had had the day before.  I watched Manning check down to poor checkdown options time and again, likely because his downfield receivers weren't open.  I watched his receivers make poor decisions about cutbacks.  I watched them drop a bunch of balls.  I saw little energy for downfield blocking, like that MileHighReport observed about Sanders and Thomas not blocking for CJ Anderson on his 4th-down run.  I certainly saw a QB who wasn't a threat to run, but that's nothing new with Manning.
 
Basically, i think "Peyton was hurt!" is not just a simplistic view of what was going on, it also ignores the fact that Indy was doing very well at a number of defensive tasks.

 

[Devizier]

When it comes to coaching, how many exceptional ones are there? I mean that in both the good and bad sense of the term.
 
You have Belichick, Payton, Harbaugh(s) on the plus side. That might be it, and of those three, only Belichick has a long track record of excellence. And, to be honest, I don't think Payton belongs. If the Seahawks win the Superbowl this season, I think you have to put Carroll in that class.
 
There are lots of good coaches out there who are not historically great, and I think Fox belongs in this category (guys like Tomlin, Coughlin, McCarthy, Reid, Arians, etc.)
 
On the terrible end, you have Dennis Allen and Mark Trestman, among a few others. All of those guys are looking for jobs.

 

[Morning Woodhead]

Kubiak sounds like he's hand-picked for Manning.

 
I understand the history between Elway and Kubiak, and the history he has with the franchise, but his teams are soft.  Those Texans team always folded when it mattered.  Kubiak is like Norv Turner to me.  Great OC, but wouldn't touch him as a HC. 

 

[Shelterdog]

 
 
 
Yes, you jerks - I watched the game.  I did so without joining the amen corner of the game thread, so I'm unaware of whatever groupthink or conventional-wisdom came out of that.  And I saw Manning make a few throws behind receivers, or sideline throws where it ended out of bounds... but it didn't seem all that different, frankly, from the misfires that Tom Brady had had the day before.  I watched Manning check down to poor checkdown options time and again, likely because his downfield receivers weren't open.  I watched his receivers make poor decisions about cutbacks.  I watched them drop a bunch of balls.  I saw little energy for downfield blocking, like that MileHighReport observed about Sanders and Thomas not blocking for CJ Anderson on his 4th-down run.  I certainly saw a QB who wasn't a threat to run, but that's nothing new with Manning.
 
Basically, i think "Peyton was hurt!" is not just a simplistic view of what was going on, it also ignores the fact that Indy was doing very well at a number of defensive tasks.

 
If only we could be contrarian geniuses like you and not a bunch of dolts mired in the conventional wisdom and stuck with simplistic views.

 

[Toe Nash]

Yes, you jerks - I watched the game.  I did so without joining the amen corner of the game thread, so I'm unaware of whatever groupthink or conventional-wisdom came out of that.  And I saw Manning make a few throws behind receivers, or sideline throws where it ended out of bounds... but it didn't seem all that different, frankly, from the misfires that Tom Brady had had the day before.  I watched Manning check down to poor checkdown options time and again, likely because his downfield receivers weren't open.  I watched his receivers make poor decisions about cutbacks.  I watched them drop a bunch of balls.  I saw little energy for downfield blocking, like that MileHighReport observed about Sanders and Thomas not blocking for CJ Anderson on his 4th-down run.  I certainly saw a QB who wasn't a threat to run, but that's nothing new with Manning.
 
Basically, i think "Peyton was hurt!" is not just a simplistic view of what was going on, it also ignores the fact that Indy was doing very well at a number of defensive tasks.

Did you watch the multiple deep throws to an open Sanders that Manning overthrew terribly?
 
It's a lot easier to cover when you don't respect the deep ball, not to mention a number of 10-ish yard throws that require more zip than Manning had.

 

[TomRicardo]

 
 
 
Yes, you jerks - I watched the game.  I did so without joining the amen corner of the game thread, so I'm unaware of whatever groupthink or conventional-wisdom came out of that.  And I saw Manning make a few throws behind receivers, or sideline throws where it ended out of bounds... but it didn't seem all that different, frankly, from the misfires that Tom Brady had had the day before.  I watched Manning check down to poor checkdown options time and again, likely because his downfield receivers weren't open.  I watched his receivers make poor decisions about cutbacks.  I watched them drop a bunch of balls.  I saw little energy for downfield blocking, like that MileHighReport observed about Sanders and Thomas not blocking for CJ Anderson on his 4th-down run.  I certainly saw a QB who wasn't a threat to run, but that's nothing new with Manning.
 
Basically, i think "Peyton was hurt!" is not just a simplistic view of what was going on, it also ignores the fact that Indy was doing very well at a number of defensive tasks.

 
I mean it is hard to believe you watched and thought Indy's defense did anymore than show up and watch Manning fall apart.  Seriously you could have fielded the Little Giants defense and Manning still would have imploded.  They got two sacks (one with Manning trying to desperately buy time on the second to last play of the game).  There wasn't a ton of pressure.  Manning just kept missing open Broncos.

 

[DJnVa]

 
 
 
 And I saw Manning make a few throws behind receivers, or sideline throws where it ended out of bounds... but it didn't seem all that different, frankly, from the misfires that Tom Brady had had the day before.  .

 

Yes they did,
 
They looked so different nearly every single talking head is asking if he's done. That's how different they looked. All incompletions are not the same. Manning was 5-21 on throws beyond 5 yards. That's not because of Sergio Brown.

 

[86spike]

 
The "Elway is a genius" stuff is such a lie. Elway bringing in his backup QB to be the coach? When said backup is a proven mediocrity with a track record (above) that screams "it is what it is!"?
 
Stitch nails it. If the concerns include not being mentally tough enough then you couldn't find a worse candidate than Kubiak. 

 
I wonder if Kubiak is a safety valve interview or even a favor Elway is doing for an old friend.  Kubes did put out a statement early yesterday (before the Denver news broke) that he was flattered with his name being discussed, but he was staying in Baltimore.  I agree that his teams have never been paragons of fortitude, so he's not a guy I would want.
 

Kubiak sounds like he's hand-picked for Manning.

 
Kubiak's offense is something Manning could not run.  Bootlegs and QB mobility... not Peyton's thing.

 

[Shelterdog]

Yes, this is where I'm at.

John Fox is a great person and a solid NFL Head Coach. He excels at the tasks of managing the logistics of a large endeavor. But he is not a tactician nor is he a motivator. He has zero killer instinct shrugs off defeat without spending time focused on fixing the things that made you lose. He and his staff are terrible at in-game adjustments and when you play the toughest teams in the playoffs, you lose if you can't adjust.

He was a great hire to get the team through the McDamnit aftermath and did a great job making chicken salad out of Tebow's chicken shit. He did a good job piloting the team to lots of wins against weaker teams and won a few tough ones against top opponents, but he could not do that consistently enough to accomplish the only goal: a SB win. His teams have been loaded with talent but soft as silk.

John Elway is still new to GMing, but so far it is clear that he still has the burning drive to win. Bronco losses piss him off still. That is undeniably the biggest difference between Elway and Fox. Two days after last year's SB humiliation, Fox and Elway sat at their season-ending press conference and Fox was asked to assess the season. Just hours after an epic fail in every fashion, Fox said "We went 13-3 and made it to the SB. I'd say that the season was not too shabby." Elway visibly clenched his jaw at "not too shabby". The difference between the two men is spelled out right there.

Fox is OK with almost winning. Elway is not.

Sunday's mailed in game plan and failure to adjust was the final straw for me and apparently for Elway. Fox was not a bad coach, but he wasn't good enough for a team built to win it all in a rapidly closing (and probably already closed, to be honest) window. I wish him well, but now I want a coach with drive, killer instinct and an ability to adapt mid game when needed.

Not Too Shabby Fox is probably a good man to right the ship in Chicago, but I doubt he'll lead them to a Lombardi.

 
It's all well and good that Elway is super-duper competitive, thinks that second place is first loser, etc., and of course a good organization should strive to constantly improve. The issue is that you better make sure your new coach is better than the old coach and that you're not just making change for change's sake--particularly since the old coach did a better than average job. I guess we'll figure out who Elway had in mind pretty soon.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 Kubiak's offense is something Manning could not run.  Bootlegs and QB mobility... not Peyton's thing.

 
I don't really see Kubiak's system in Baltimore as reliant on QB mobility. Flacco seems like a traditional pocket-passer, for the most part. A few bootlegs are built in, but the same could be said for Manning even this year.

 

[dynomite]

 
Stitch nails it. If the concerns include not being mentally tough enough then you couldn't find a worse candidate than Kubiak. 

That said, if you're trying to become the 1997 Broncos and run your way to a title with a limited aging QB, I think Kubiak makes some sense, right?

CJ Anderson would run wild in Kubiak's cut blocking schemes, and given his relationship with Elway it would probably be less of an overhaul for the organization.

I get that Kubiak has limits, but it makes some sense to me.

 
Marty was better than average - the original Cleveland teams in the 80s were really good, he was the only person to be competitive in Washington and his San Diego tenure produced above-average regular season results. He was a very good coach. But the bold keeps him out of the "great or better" . 

I've never really understood how to think about Shotty. On one hand, it's not like once he was gone the Chargers or Browns won the Super Bowl. On the other, he was ridiculously conservative at times.

Still, in that ridiculous playoff game in '06 if McCree just goes down once he intercepts Brady the Chargers probably win and host the Colts the next week (a team they owned in that era). God, I just got angry all over again about the '06 AFCCG.

 

[86spike]

 
It's all well and good that Elway is super-duper competitive, thinks that second place is first loser, etc., and of course a good organization should strive to constantly improve. The issue is that you better make sure your new coach is better than the old coach and that you're not just making change for change's sake--particularly since the old coach did a better than average job. I guess we'll figure out who Elway had in mind pretty soon.

 
No doubt.  I really like Elway's first 4 years on the job, but the next 4 are going to be where he really makes his bones and we can decide if he's truly good at the job.  This coaching hire is a huge moment in that story. 

 

[DanoooME]

That said, if you're trying to become the 1997 Broncos and run your way to a title with a limited aging QB, I think Kubiak makes some sense, right?

CJ Anderson would run wild in Kubiak's cut blocking schemes, and given his relationship with Elway it would probably be less of an overhaul for the organization.

I get that Kubiak has limits, but it makes some sense to me.

 
Let's face it, using that thought, Shanahan makes the most sense.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

That said, if you're trying to become the 1997 Broncos and run your way to a title with a limited aging QB, I think Kubiak makes some sense, right?

CJ Anderson would run wild in Kubiak's cut blocking schemes, and given his relationship with Elway it would probably be less of an overhaul for the organization.

I get that Kubiak has limits, but it makes some sense to me.

It makes sense on a superficial level - Elway trying to recreate the same conditions that allowed him to succeed as an older QB - but I don't if the pieces really fit. They need to revamp the OL anyway, but there would definitely be a learning curve in terms of going heavy on the zone blocking scheme. The QB also spends a lot of time under center in Kubiak's offense and Peyton has moved away from that a lot in the last couple years (although he did it more in the last few weeks of this year). I'm not sure they really need to roll him out very often, but you've gotta at least have the mobility/agility to take snaps under center, execute play action, turn back and quickly scan the field while also shuffling around the pocket, etc. Peyton used to be one of the very best in the league at doing these things and its not like he's incapable of them now, but I'm not sure it really plays to his strengths either at this point.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

 
I don't really see Kubiak's system in Baltimore as reliant on QB mobility. Flacco seems like a traditional pocket-passer, for the most part. A few bootlegs are built in, but the same could be said for Manning even this year.

 
Kubiak's scheme on the QBs mobility to get a few misdirection plays in.  Without the misdirection, I think it becomes much easier to defend.  It's a 2 TE, QB on the center, with boots and waggles mixed in.  While I'm sure PM could run it, it wouldn't be ideal for him.  Also, it doesn't let him do all the arm-waving that he does now.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Did you watch the multiple deep throws to an open Sanders that Manning overthrew terribly?
 
It's a lot easier to cover when you don't respect the deep ball, not to mention a number of 10-ish yard throws that require more zip than Manning had.

 
So, wait, he didn't have the arm to put zip on the ball for his short-to-medium game, but when he threw deep, he put too much zip on the ball?
 
I think a simpler explanation is that Vontae Davis, Darius Butler and their secondary cohorts did an exceptional job on Sunday.  Certainly, Manning missed some throws that he might have made in 2006, but I saw a comprehensive failure of the Denver offense (Anderson excepted), not just a QB shitting himself Jameis Winston-style.  In those instances, I usually assume a majority of the credit/blame ought to go to the defense who was able to cause those failures (aside from the drops and such).

 

[Marciano490]

 
So, wait, he didn't have the arm to put zip on the ball for his short-to-medium game, but when he threw deep, he put too much zip on the ball?
 
I think a simpler explanation is that Vontae Davis, Darius Butler and their secondary cohorts did an exceptional job on Sunday.  Certainly, Manning missed some throws that he might have made in 2006, but I saw a comprehensive failure of the Denver offense (Anderson excepted), not just a QB shitting himself Jameis Winston-style.  In those instances, I usually assume a majority of the credit/blame ought to go to the defense who was able to cause those failures (aside from the drops and such).

 
Accuracy follows strength.  It's easier to be accurate and controlled using a lower percentage of your strength than a higher percentage.  If Peyton's arm strength were still at 100% he would've had better control over deep balls.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Accuracy follows strength.  It's easier to be accurate and controlled using a lower percentage of your strength than a higher percentage.  If Peyton's arm strength were still at 100% he would've had better control over deep balls.

 
Solid point.  Those who know more about throwing mechanics can probably comment better than I can at whether Manning Week 19 looked the same as Manning Week 1.  There were the reports about Manning having a torn right quad, which I'd think would make him compensate with more arm and less push-off, but the truth is, I have no idea.  But that strikes me as an injury that an immobile QB like Manning could easily come back from and be effective next year.
 
So, returning to the theme of the thread, if the over/under on "number of years Peyton has left as an elite quarterback" is 0.5, as per this poll, then I'm taking the over.

 

[ifmanis5]

Elway to speak to the media in about 20 minutes.

 

[rodderick]

 
So, wait, he didn't have the arm to put zip on the ball for his short-to-medium game, but when he threw deep, he put too much zip on the ball?
 
I think a simpler explanation is that Vontae Davis, Darius Butler and their secondary cohorts did an exceptional job on Sunday.  Certainly, Manning missed some throws that he might have made in 2006, but I saw a comprehensive failure of the Denver offense (Anderson excepted), not just a QB shitting himself Jameis Winston-style.  In those instances, I usually assume a majority of the credit/blame ought to go to the defense who was able to cause those failures (aside from the drops and such).

 
The guy was 6-21 on throws over 5 yards in the air. I don't care if you're the 2000 Ravens, that's terrible. The Colts did a good job, but Manning shoulders most of the blame for that offensive performance. 

 

[dynomite]

 
Kubiak's scheme on the QBs mobility to get a few misdirection plays in.  Without the misdirection, I think it becomes much easier to defend.  It's a 2 TE, QB on the center, with boots and waggles mixed in.  While I'm sure PM could run it, it wouldn't be ideal for him.  Also, it doesn't let him do all the arm-waving that he does now.

I actually don't remember: did Kubiak use as many boots with limited, non-mobile Schaub at QB in Houston?

 

[Stitch01]

Yes

 

[triniSox]

John Elway opens the press conference: "I'd like to start out by thanking John Elway... (laughing) sorry I meant John Fox"

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I actually don't remember: did Kubiak use as many boots with limited, non-mobile Schaub at QB in Houston?

 
Data that can be pieced together from these tables suggests that the number of rollouts was relatively limited in 2013 with Schaub.  But his QBs do definitely spend a lot of time under center.  And its possible that some misdirection/boot plays don't get classified as rollouts because the QB is actually letting the ball go before getting outside the tackles.

 

[mauidano]

Love how Elway just opened his press conference by thanking HIMSELF. Nice going you mouth breathing motherfucker.