Celtics 2014 Pre-Season Thread

[mauf]

I strongly disagree. Rookies need to learn when to shoot, and when not to shoot.

I'm not jumping to SSS conclusions -- Smart might hit open 3s often enough to make them acceptable shots. If he can't do that, however, he needs to learn not to take those shots. Practice is the place to work on shooting range and accuracy.

Edit: Responding to Scoops and JakeRae.

 

[Blacken]

These games are practices. Giving Smart shooting reps in preseason doesn't mean they're going to have him making the same shots in games. They have all year--and, practically, probably all next year--to mold his decision-making.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Because it's the preseason and working on it during meaningless games is not a terrible idea?

Were Smart's last two seasons shooting under 30% at OkState meaningless too? This isn't like Sully who is looking to improve his range (and is).......this is a guy with the same god awful form jacking up a ton of the same ill-advised three's he did in college. I LOVE how he competes and his passing instincts but the decision making is an area that needs to improve for him to get minutes in non-tanking situations somewhere down the road.

 

[mauf]

Were Smart's last two seasons shooting under 30% at OkState meaningless too? This isn't like Sully who is looking to improve his range (and is).......this is a guy with the same god awful form jacking up a ton of the same ill-advised three's he did in college. I LOVE how he competes and his passing instincts but the decision making is an area that needs to improve for him to get minutes in non-tanking situations somewhere down the road.

He only needs to hit 35% to make it an acceptable shot. He could've worked himself into that range with a spring/summer of practice, especially if a fair number of those college 3s were contested.

Like you, I'm not sanguine about letting Smart be a chucker because the team sucks anyway, but I'm not ready to say that's what's happening.

 

[JakeRae]

I strongly disagree. Rookies need to learn when to shoot, and when not to shoot.

I'm not jumping to SSS conclusions -- Smart might hit open 3s often enough to make them acceptable shots. If he can't do that, however, he needs to learn not to take those shots. Practice is the place to work on shooting range and accuracy.

Edit: Responding to Scoops and JakeRae.

 
I'm not watching the games, so I can't comment on the quality of his looks. I would agree that shooting contested shots is not going to help his development. Taking good looks at a shot he is bad at, though, is something that he probably should be doing if the goal is for him to improve at that shot. 
 
Learning to be aggressive when good opportunities arise is important just like not forcing is important. Telling Smart not to shoot open threes for a couple seasons until he gets better at the shot is probably not going to help him learn to choose between good looks and bad ones anymore than just jacking everything up. Since he is bad at the shot currently, it's possible he's just getting a ton of open threes and, in that case, I'm very comfortable with him continuing to take that shot. On the other hand, if he's taking bad shots from three, there is no reason for him to keep doing that as that is only practicing bad habits, even if he ultimately improves his shooting.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

OMG, 2-7 on 3's in a preseason game? The horror!!!'!!!!1!

Thank you for condensing 3 years of horrific perimeter shooting into one preseason game.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Were Smart's last two seasons shooting under 30% at OkState meaningless too? This isn't like Sully who is looking to improve his range (and is).......this is a guy with the same god awful form jacking up a ton of the same ill-advised three's he did in college. I LOVE how he competes and his passing instincts but the decision making is an area that needs to improve for him to get minutes in non-tanking situations somewhere down the road.

 
I'd much rather have Smart chuck up 3Ps than 18-foot jumpers.  He's not a 3nD guy where he stands in the corner - since he has his hands on the ball, he's going to take a certain number of shots (i.e., he's not going to go shotless through his minutes).  Hopefully a number of them will be at the rim, but if most of the rest of them are 3Ps, that's probably a better proposition than becoming the next Evan Turner. 
 
As for his form, it seems to me that any major changes to his form is going to have to wait until next offseason.  Between preparing for the draft and summer league, there's just not any time to work on his form other than a few minor tweaks like trying to get his feet lined up (which they are already doing).  If he's going to work on his form, it seems to me that will have to wait until he has an extended period of time off - which will mean next summer.
 
Speaking of improving shooting, it seems like Avery Bradley is shooting something like 58% percent (24 for 41) from 3Ps that are not in the corner.  Granted SSS but he really has come a long way since year 1.

 

[ifmanis5]

Rondo might be back for opening night.
 
LINK: http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/10/rajon_rondo_progressing_great.html

 

[Kliq]

Rondo can miss the first two months of the season for all I care. Rondo is just dead weight to me at this point. Personally, I don't think he is part of the future for this team, so having him play just kind of drives up the cost of opportunity for someone like Smart. All it is doing is potentially enhancing his trade value, but I'm not really sure if playing well in 25 games or so is really going to impact the way teams see him. Secondly, the Celtics are going to suck with or without Rondo, and as shitty as it sounds, I'd rather suck more and get in the Oak sweepstakes while letting Smart play in the fire as much as possible, than suck a little less but keep playing Rondo.

 

[ifmanis5]

It's important for him to come back, look great and sell high instead of being forced to take one of the lame Iman Shumpert-type deals currently on the table.

 

[radsoxfan]

Rondo might be back for opening night.
 
LINK: http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/10/rajon_rondo_progressing_great.html

 
 
Without knowing the specifics of his injury/surgery, seems at least a week or two early if he plays opening night.  I'm sure Rondo thinks he can play with a still healing broken left hand, but I'm not sure that's a very good idea.  I'd rather wait the extra week or two to be more confident he will avoid a re-fracture.  Missing another 6 to 8 weeks in the middle of the season if he breaks it again would be far worse than missing a handful of games to start the season.
 
Plus, I've seen enough of passive Rondo. If he does play opening night, inevitably he will be trying to protect that hand, not be driving hard, not defending as aggressively as he can, etc.  We saw enough of that last year, we don't need to see more of it to start this season.  

 

[ifmanis5]

If anything he'll be over-compensating and trying to prove he is fine, which can be just as bad.

 

[radsoxfan]

If anything he'll be over-compensating and trying to prove he is fine, which can be just as bad.

 
Well thats not how most people react when trying to return too early from an injury, but I suppose anything is on the table with Rondo.  
 
Regardless,  that's not a good outcome either. 

 

[Brickowski]

Hopefully these kinds of decisions are made by Stevens and Ainge, with input from the Celtics' medical staff, not by the player.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Hopefully these kinds of decisions are made by Stevens and Ainge, with input from the Celtics' medical staff, not by the player.

The decision at this level is always going to ultimately be the players.

Interesting as to a) why Stevens would bring this up and b) that Rondo immediately stated he'd be ready when he's healed.

Derrick Rose taught him well.

 

[Brickowski]

The decision at this level is always going to ultimately be the players.

 

??? If the coach doesn't think a player is ready to play in a game, he sits.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

??? If the coach doesn't think a player is ready to play in a game, he sits.

If the player is Medically cleared and wants to play......that coach will then have some splaining to do to the GM and owner who is cutting him a check to play in the games.

The coach probably has the least amount of pull in this decision. It begins with medical personnel clearing the player first then the player second. We've seen this many times.

 

[Brickowski]

Ok, but one would assume that the player wouldn't be medically cleared for the reasons Radsoxfan has articulated.  And it's perfectly reasonable for a coach to sit a player who has not been medically cleared long enough to practice without restrictions.

 

[radsoxfan]

The decision at this level is always going to ultimately be the players.

Well "medically cleared" is a legitimate hurdle, so hard to say the decision is ultimately the players.

More importantly, medical clearance isn't always a completely independent decision made without team input. These decisions, especially when someone is "almost healthy", are often fairly subjective. There is no magic test that can prove with certainty the exact moment a player is ready to return. For better or worse, decisions are often made in collaboration with team management and coaches.

If Danny/Brad want to take the conservative approach to be closer to 100% sure rondo won't re-injure himself, the team doc will know that. If they are OK with a more aggressive timeline, the docs will know that too. Hopefully the player has input in these things, but I doubt that is always the case. Players should be getting second opinions if they think their best interests are not central to the decision making process.

To look at an extreme football analogy, a team's medical staff/management is likely going to be more liberal in allowing a player to play if the Super Bowl is next week than if there is a preseason game coming up. There is not one objective correct moment in time that a player is all of a sudden "cleared medically". It's multifactorial, and as much art as is it science, in many situations.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I don't think we really disagree on any of this it was the way Brick worded his post that threw me off. My point was that Rondo will play when he feels he is ready to play after possibly meeting with his agent, his doctor, etc regardless of his coach and team doctors/executives saying he's going to play.

The team knows this and Stevens speaking of opening night is simply a strategy (IMO) to put some pressure on him to get back on the floor once he's cleared this week or next.

 

[Brickowski]

It's important for him to come back, look great and sell high instead of being forced to take one of the lame Iman Shumpert-type deals currently on the table.

Yes, and that's why his agent should be begging him to be very cautious.  Apart from the risk of reinjury, if he comes back looking like the 2014 Rondo instead of the 2011 Rondo he will cost himself (and his agent) millions.  If he looks great no one will care that he missed the first few games of the season.

 

[FelixMantilla]

http://bballbreakdown.com/2014/10/21/its-time-to-fear-brad-stevens/

 

[The Social Chair]

http://bballbreakdown.com/2014/10/21/its-time-to-fear-brad-stevens/

 
I fear Stevens...leaving after this year to go to a school like UNC. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
I fear Stevens...leaving after this year to go to a school like UNC. 

He seems like more of a Dukie to me especially now with the entire UNC athletic department ready to face this acedemic scandal. When K leaves Stevens would appear to be an obvious candidate.

 

[Brickowski]

I don't see Stevens leaving for a college job anytime soon unless Tom Crean leaves Indiana.

 

[Devizier]

The networks just paid over $2B dollars to sell advertising time with the final 6 minutes of an NBA game being the prime slots. Good luck having them agree to selling LESS advertising in these slots.

 
Hopefully the prospect of all-on-demand sports in the future will put an end to that practice.
 
It's a ways down the line...

 

[TheDeuce222]

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/pressrelease/celtics-finalize-opening-night-roster
 
Celts have waived Will Bynum, Jarell Eddie, Tim Frazier, Rodney McGruder, Erik Murphy and Christian Watford, leaving the roster as:
 
PG Rajon Rondo Marcus Smart Phil Pressey
SG Avery Bradley Marcus Thornton James Young 
SF Jeff Green Evan Turner Gerald Wallace 
PF Jared Sullinger Brandon Bass Dwight Powell
C Kelly Olynyk Tyler Zeller Vitor Faverani
 
Very interested to see the minutes distribution when Rondo comes back (tomorrow or in Texas later in the week).  I would imagine it will be something like:
 
Rondo 30 minutes
Bradley 35 minutes
Green 35 minutes
Sullinger 30 minutes
Olynyk 25 minutes
Smart 25 minutes
Bass 20 minutes
Turner 20 minutes
Thornton 15 minutes
Zeller 10 minutes
 
With possible short cameos from Wallace and/or Young...

 

[Koufax]

No way Pressey sees zero minutes.  Not that he deserves better, but he's got pictures of somebody -- Grosbeck?

 

[TheDeuce222]

No way Pressey sees zero minutes.  Not that he deserves better, but he's got pictures of somebody -- Grosbeck?

Ugh.  You're probably right - but if he is taking developmental minutes from Smart, or showcase minutes from Thornton and Turner, they're making a huge mistake.  

 

[TheDeuce222]

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/pressrelease/celtics-finalize-opening-night-roster
 
Celts have waived Will Bynum, Jarell Eddie, Tim Frazier, Rodney McGruder, Erik Murphy and Christian Watford, leaving the roster as:
 
PG Rajon Rondo Marcus Smart Phil Pressey
SG Avery Bradley Marcus Thornton James Young 
SF Jeff Green Evan Turner Gerald Wallace 
PF Jared Sullinger Brandon Bass Dwight Powell
C Kelly Olynyk Tyler Zeller Vitor Faverani
 
Very interested to see the minutes distribution when Rondo comes back (tomorrow or in Texas later in the week).  I would imagine it will be something like:
 
Rondo 30 minutes
Bradley 35 minutes
Green 35 minutes
Sullinger 30 minutes
Olynyk 25 minutes
Smart 25 minutes
Bass 20 minutes
Turner 20 minutes
Thornton 15 minutes
Zeller 10 minutes
 
With possible short cameos from Wallace and/or Young...

So turns out I more or less had down what Stevens would do.  Pressey, Wallace and Young didn't play, and the minutes distribution was very, very close to the above.  
 
Rondo 30 - actual 30
Green 35 - actual 36
Bradley 35 - actual 30
Sullinger 30 -actual 28
Olynyk 25 - actual 29
Smart 25 - actual 28
Bass 20 - actual 16
Turner 20 - actual 24
Thornton 15 - actual 14
Zeller 10 - actual 6
 
Not having guys like Pressey and Wallace out there is so key...
 
I was somewhat surprised and very enthused by the three guard lineups with Green at the 4 and Sully, Zeller or Olynyk at the 5.  Against teams without a true center, this has the potential to be a very run and gun team with a stifling defense.  The obvious offensive concern is lack of shooting with that kind of lineup, but if Bradley and Sully/Olynyk can stretch the floor, the driving and fast-breaking potential is really exciting.  

 

[The Social Chair]

I don't know where to put this but Rondo took the T to the game, 
 

Reporter: Did you ride the T to the game?
Rondo: No.
Reporter: There was a picture of you on the T.
Rondo: Oh, is that right? Then why did you ask me that question? You are giving away my transportation to the game, man!