Celtics 2014 Pre-Season Thread

[Brickowski]

Defensively I think you have to look at the pre-injury Rondo vs the post-injury Rondo.  Rondo was a much better defender 2-3 years ago.  As for offense, Rondo can take it to the rack and draw fouls.  Plus he gets layups.  That's why his overall shooting percentage (even last year) is almost the same as Beverly's, even though Beverly is way better from beyond the arc. So I'll have to disagree with Bowiac on this one, although Beverly's low salary is certainly a better fit for Houston than Rondo's 12 million would be.
 
The Rockets might deserve a separate thread.  I see that team as going nowhere as presently constituted.   

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Defensively I think you have to look at the pre-injury Rondo vs the post-injury Rondo.  Rondo was a much better defender 2-3 years ago.  As for offense, Rondo can take it to the rack and draw fouls.  Plus he gets layups.  That's why his overall shooting percentage (even last year) is almost the same as Beverly's, even though Beverly is way better from beyond the arc. So I'll have to disagree with Bowiac on this one, although Beverly's low salary is certainly a better fit for Houston than Rondo's 12 million would be.
 
The Rockets might deserve a separate thread.  I see that team as going nowhere as presently constituted.   

 
I suppose that, hypothetically, he could do that. He doesn't though.

 

[Brickowski]

 
I suppose that, hypothetically, he could do that. He doesn't though.

He used to.  Last year he played very tentatively.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

He used to.  Last year he played very tentatively.

He's always been terrified of the free throw line. The only reason his ftr used to respectable is that opponents happily sent him there.

 

[ALiveH]

rondo is small by NBA standards & doesn't seem to relish the abuse & injury risk he takes when he goes to the hole.  He seems to pick his spots & big game situations & national TV for going to the rack.  With his speed & handle he could probably take it there almost at will but then he'd be injured like 40 games a year.
 
his defensive apathy at times is borderline ludicrous.  it's so bad someone could easily make a harden-style youtube video.  it makes it really hard to come to his defense as a player even for those of us who like him a lot and see his upside.
 
almost as bad as the defense is the fact his shooting han't really improved since he got into the league.  People enter the league at max speed & athleticism.  Just about every superstar in the league used every offseason to get stronger and constantly work on their game, turning every weakness into a strength & adding more moves.  Sadly, i haven't seen much evidence rondo has done this which is why he hasn't made the leap to superstar.  It's very frustrating because every other part of the game comes so easy to him & he's obviously a super-high IQ guy.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

He used to.  Last year he played very tentatively.

When? Rondo has never been to the line more than 3.5x/g with most seasons below 3.....meaning he makes less than 2 FT's per game for his career (1.7 to be precise).

 

[ifmanis5]

In non-Rondo news, the starting unit in practice was Smart-Bradley-Green-Sully-Olynyk.

 

[Brickowski]

 
 
his defensive apathy at times is borderline ludicrous.  it's so bad someone could easily make a harden-style youtube video.  it makes it really hard to come to his defense as a player even for those of us who like him a lot and see his upside.
 
 

He's not apathetic.  But because he's a stats hound, he is routinely out of position trying for steals.
 
Listen, I'd like to see him gone as much as anyone else.  It's Marcus Smart's time.  Let Smart have his growing pains sooner rather than later.  But Rondo is a unique player with some unique skills.  

 

[swingin val]

In non-Rondo news, the starting unit in practice was Smart-Bradley-Green-Sully-Olynyk.

Worst starting 5 in the league?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Worst starting 5 in the league?

You don't get any worse than Philly......but it's not for lack of trying.

 

[nighthob]

You don't get any worse than Philly......but it's not for lack of trying.

Boston is clearly going to give the Sixers a run for their money.

 

[nighthob]

On the bright side the perimeter defense won't suck. Not that most people will notice with that interior D.

 

[Wilco's Last Fan]

Worst. Defensive Frontcourt. Ever.

Where's Zeller in that lineup?

 

[ifmanis5]

Philly will be something like MCW-McDaniels-Thompson-Noel-Sims. I'd say that's way worse. We'll find out on Monday.
 
Zeller is backing up for now. 6th man might be Turner, Thornton or Bass.

 

[Wilco's Last Fan]

Philly will be something like MCW-McDaniels-Thompson-Noel-Sims. I'd say that's way worse. We'll find out on Monday.
 
Zeller is backing up for now. 6th man might be Turner, Thornton or Bass.

With Olynyk and his alligator arms starting at C?

We have a young, true C on the roster. I know Olynyk is a 7-footer but he doesn't have the wingspan or athleticism to come close to compensating for an undersized PF.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

There is good reason the young true center is backing up Kelly Olynyk. It's the same reason why he was acquired for a rack of basketballs.

 

[Wilco's Last Fan]

There is good reason the young true center is backing up Kelly Olynyk. It's the same reason why he was acquired for a rack of basketballs.

He was acquired for a rack of basketballs so that the Cavs could clear the cap space to offer LeBron the max. Doesn't mean that they would still have done that trade if LBJ wasn't in play.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

He was acquired for a rack of basketballs so that the Cavs could clear the cap space to offer LeBron the max. Doesn't mean that they would still have done that trade if LBJ wasn't in play.

I understand. My point was he's not a very good basketball player which made him the easily expendable part to move from Cleveland's perspective.

Edit: Before you compare his horrific rookie season as a 26 mpg starter to the improvements as a 14 mpg reserve aside from recognize the numbers last year coming against 2nd units who typically employ a 4 as the acting 5......many of those limited minutes weren't as part of the regular rotation but as garbage 4th quarter mop up minutes. He racked up a bunch of DNP-CD along with garbage appearances on one of the worst teams in the league.

 

[ifmanis5]

Green not playing tonight with a calf issue.

 

[Brickowski]

Green not playing tonight with a calf issue.

More minutes for James Young.  I'm also interested in getting a closer look at Dwight Powell.

 

[ifmanis5]

Tonight's game is on NBATV for out of market viewers.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Tonight's game is on NBATV for out of market viewers.

A premier pre-season matchup for the country and world to see.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Was that Smart flirting with Abby about "streching [it] out" re: his groin sprain?

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

MCW hurt?

 

[ifmanis5]

No MCW or McDaniels starting? The tanking has already begun!

 

[ifmanis5]

Why are they reviewing this???

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Why are they reviewing this???

preseason record is the new tiebreaker for ping pong balls?

 

[ifmanis5]

The Hollis Thompson Show.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I only need one preseason game from an 18-year to confidently say this. James Young will be an NBA player for a long time in this league. How far he goes will depend on his work ethic and commitment but he has "It".....that confidence to go with his quickness and lights out shooting ability. Very good to see.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I only need one preseason game from an 18-year to confidently say this. James Young will be an NBA player for a long time in this league. How far he goes will depend on his work ethic and commitment but he has "It".....that confidence to go with his quickness and lights out shooting ability. Very good to see.

He always struck me as a guy who would benefit greatly from the better spacing the NBA has to offer. Scouting reports didn't love his driving ability but that doesn't always translate moving from facing zone d to man. Either way, he has the shot to set up the rest of his game.

 

[Brickowski]

I only need one preseason game from an 18-year to confidently say this. James Young will be an NBA player for a long time in this league. How far he goes will depend on his work ethic and commitment but he has "It".....that confidence to go with his quickness and lights out shooting ability. Very good to see.

He will go as far as his defense takes him. 

 

[EL Jeffe]

• Evan Turner was a pleasant surprise. He looked like the kid at OSU who could fill up a stat sheet, get where he needed to go with the ball despite mediocre quickness, and control the tempo/pace of a game. 
• Avery Bradley was an utter sh*tshow. 
• I've never seen a 7' get his shot blocked as often as K.O. Still, he does enough things well that he'll have a long career as a stretch big. Tommy saying he's better than Dirk when Dirk was young was hysterical. Gorman's complete silence to that remark was just as funny.
• Smart was terrific defensively and ran the offense well, but his ability to score was...uninspiring.
• Agreed on Young - he looked like he belonged out there, was aggressive, and showed a lightning quick release.
• Sully did a bunch of Sully things. 
• 76ers are truly, truly awful at basketball.
• The Celtics aren't much better.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The Celtics aren't much better, but they have a big load of mediocrity instead of just a bit. Really hard to envision what the rotation will be.

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

 

• Smart was terrific defensively and ran the offense well, but his ability to score was...uninspiring.

 

 
At least he made his free throws...

 

[ifmanis5]

Smart's shot looks worse than Rondo's, which is hard to do. The other parts of his game are there but he might not be the Rondo offensive upgrade I thought he would be.
 
Young looks like a pure scorer wing guy they've been trying to get for a long time. Sweet stroke and can finish on the break. Plus, natural left handers with a quick releases are hard guys to guard.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Smart's shot looks worse than Rondo's, which is hard to do. The other parts of his game are there but he might not be the Rondo offensive upgrade I thought he would be.
 
Young looks like a pure scorer wing guy they've been trying to get for a long time. Sweet stroke and can finish on the break. Plus. natural left handers with a quick releases are hard guys to guard.

I didn't realize how quick Young's feet are which will surely be an asset in accelerating his learning curve on the defensive end. If he "gets it" we may have something in a couple of years.

Last night was against an NBDL team so I'm not focusing on results only the eye test. On the other hand it would have been nice for Smart or Zeller to convert at least a FG against such awful competition. Zeller's performance doesn't surprise me as he has shown to be awful......I'm not a fan of Smart's game translating but aside from shooting, which is a big problem for him, I liked the rest of his performance.

 

[ifmanis5]

I didn't realize how quick Young's feet are which will surely be an asset in accelerating his learning curve on the defensive end. If he "gets it" we may have something in a couple of years.

Last night was against an NBDL team so I'm not focusing on results only the eye test. On the other hand it would have been nice for Smart or Zeller to convert at least a FG against such awful competition. Zeller's performance doesn't surprise me as he has shown to be awful......I'm not a fan of Smart's game translating but aside from shooting, which is a big problem for him, I liked the rest of his performance.

Yeah, Zeller looked totally lost. Not just physically deficient but it was like his first game ever out there.

 

[knucklecup]

Smart was better offensively tonight and looked good all around.

Sullinger was on fire, Turner was tremendous, and NYK couldn't stop the back door cutting.

It definitely shows that they were playing together all summer. They seem in sync.

 

[Brickowski]

Yes, the young Celtics played like a veteran team while the older Knicks bumbled: 28 turnovers, poor defense and bombs away on offense.  
 
There's the famous story when Tex Winter wanted Phil to take MJ out because MJ wasn't executing the triangle properly.  If he had been on the Knicks bench last night, he would have wanted everyone to be benched.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Fun to watch Smart and Bradley playing defense.  Kind of too bad that given the abundance of guards on this team they will only get limited minutes on the court at the same time.  Without taking time to go through every combo, my initial thought is that they'd be the best defensive backcourt in the NBA.
 
Of course, it's easier to spend a lot of energy on defense when the player isn't expected to carry the load on offense.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The problem isn't so much the abundance of guards as it is how his backcourt would really limit our offensive output. I do like Smart paired with Thornton, I feel they compliment each other very well,.....which will be our 2nd unit either with Rondo here or in a more perfect world on a better team.

 

[Brickowski]

IMHO a Smart Bradley backcourt won't limit their offensive output because the points off steals and turnovers will make up for any drop off in the half court offense.  And when the team plays the running game, even that drop off evaporates.
 
This is a roster that has to play fast to be successful.  

 

[ifmanis5]

This is a roster that has to play fast to be successful.  

That makes Tommy happy.

 

[CreightonGubanich]

It remains to be seen how it all plays out once the season actually starts, but what we've seen so far and the quotes from Brad Stevens seem to indicate that the plan is for this team to run, pressure the ball, and defend well. That won't make them good, but it might make them fun to watch. For the most part, they have the personnel to do it. I think it's the best strategy to optimize the roster they have, where the players don't fit neatly into traditional positions, and the glaring weakness is the same as last season: the lack of a shot creator to give them some offense against half court sets. So why not pressure, run, score in transition, and bomb threes with abandon. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I've yet to meet a coach who enters the season talking about how their team will play slower and defensively passive without applying ball presser. It's all gobblygook coach speak this time of year. Once Rondo returns the pace will slow dramatically as he isn't a push it style PG or has ever been one.

 

[Brickowski]

. Once Rondo returns the pace will slow dramatically as he isn't a push it style PG or has ever been one.

Ye, and the quality of the team's play will deteriorate substantially as we watch Rondo pad his individual stats in anticipation of free agency.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Ye, and the quality of the team's play will deteriorate substantially as we watch Rondo pad his individual stats in anticipation of free agency.

I don't see him really doing this actually. I don't think he is capable of it from the PG position since most of his accused stat-padding in the past had come in the form of assists with the help of our scorekeeper when dumping the ball to Pierce and KG.

We ran essentially the same sets last year with him making the same passes as he has in the past......the difference being that Green isn't Pierce and Sully/Olynyk isn't KG. He'll benefit from Thornton as our pure scorer but they don't figure to see a ton of time on the floor together.

 

[wutang112878]

I don't see him really doing this actually. I don't think he is capable of it from the PG position since most of his accused stat-padding in the past had come in the form of assists with the help of our scorekeeper when dumping the ball to Pierce and KG.

 
One fair critique on the padding was a reluctance to shoot because he was looking for another assist.  It wasnt frequent but there were certainly times when he would drive to the hoop and had room to get off a shot at a close distance and would just look for a pass instead of taking the shot.  Fortunately/unfortunately with the talent on this team he is going to be better served being an aggressive scorer than passer, so I doubt we see too much of it.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
One fair critique on the padding was a reluctance to shoot because he was looking for another assist.  It wasnt frequent but there were certainly times when he would drive to the hoop and had room to get off a shot at a close distance and would just look for a pass instead of taking the shot.  Fortunately/unfortunately with the talent on this team he is going to be better served being an aggressive scorer than passer, so I doubt we see too much of it.

I'm not expecting this since that really isn't his game. One of Rondo's greatest strengths is his decision making......he knows he isn't a scorer and is a poor FT shooter which is why he is reluctant to be aggressive with his scoring.

 

[wutang112878]

We're talking about layups.  This is the guy who is supposed to be our best player, and we're talking about layups.  Not outside shots, not outside shots, but layups. 
 
Getting serious.  He will never be a prolific scorer for the reasons you stated, but I do believe he could look for 1 extra layup per quarter right now because there is no outside shooting skill to be had on this team.