Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,784
I’m sure he will be fine, it is telling that he want pulled immediately.
I hope so because I’d want to win this series against a full strength Warriors team, but Steph is no spring chicken and that looked like a pretty good tweak to me. Sometimes these things hurt or drag more the next day.
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
8,709
Game 4 is going to be ugly because of the one day of rest between games. Both Steph and RWIII might be hobbling around out there.
 

RorschachsMask

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Aug 23, 2011
5,922
Lynn
Jaylen brilliant first half offensively, and all game defensively. Warriors even through a couple of traps at him in the second half, and he handled them all well IIRC.

Tatum figured it out tonight, he was snake bit at the rim, but he got wherever he wanted all night. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t drop 35+ on Friday.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
26,205
Los Angeles, CA
Kerr and Klay making a big deal out of the crowd serenading Draymond it is a great way to get the crowd to do it again on Friday.
Yup. One thing you can count on is a Boston sports crowd knowing their current events. And it will be a Friday night to boot (no work next day, many in the mindset of hitting the bars after the game).
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,065
You're 100% correct about this. They always call that a flagrant on that as long as the jump forward is natural.

But you've been doing this act for a bit now, and honestly, it's tired. No one cares if you don't want to participate in game threads, but you don't see anyone else throwing shade at it on main boards.
Mocking game thread talk has been like a staple of this board for years. Many years. I don’t care if you feel it is “tired” I’ll continue to make light-hearted harmless puns as long as I’m here. Sorry if it bothers or offends you.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,339
Man, this series is really exposing how much of a step Draymond has lost. His only chance out in space is to foul like crazy and hope they can't call 'em all.

Steph is still Steph, and that keeps the Warriors in things. But the talent and age disparity is getting really striking.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
62,552

djbayko

Member
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Jul 18, 2005
26,205
Los Angeles, CA
Mocking game thread talk has been like a staple of this board for years. Many years. I don’t care if you feel it is “tired” I’ll continue to make light-hearted harmless puns as long as I’m here. Sorry if it bothers or offends you.
I'm just saying that what you're doing comes off as awfully passive aggressive. "I'm above posting in the game threads, but I'm going to lob grenades from here." You're free to continue, but it looks pretty bad from where I sit, and others have commented on it too so I'm obviously not alone.
 
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soxhop411

news aggravator
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Dec 4, 2009
46,815

lars10

Member
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Jul 31, 2007
12,478
Man, this series is really exposing how much of a step Draymond has lost. His only chance out in space is to foul like crazy and hope they can't call 'em all.

Steph is still Steph, and that keeps the Warriors in things. But the talent and age disparity is getting really striking.
The main thing over three games.. if the Warriors are in front they play amazing.. the second they face any adversity they start getting nervous and missing. The difference in Poole's play between game 2 and games 1 and 3 is stark.. Crazy how he completely disappeared again tonite.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,478
Draymond couldn’t play a Finals game because he (incredibly stupidly) punched the best player since MJ in the nuts, and it cost his historically great team a ring. Spare me.
People in the comments also saying if Warriors fans did that in front of Tatum and his kid we'd be livid.. problem is.. Tatum doesn't do the stuff that Draymond does... he actually plays super clean. So it would just be odd(er) and probably just undeserved.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
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Mar 5, 2004
28,164
Saskatoon Canada
Yeah he should just play,
What's the alternative to playing through it? Should he just go home? Should he sit a play out? (wait he never gets upset and doesn't run down on O) Or maybe he should do his job and keep Dray out.
Honestly at one time that type of contact on the boards was normal. It was vogue to get pass rushers to teach your players swim, rip, bull rush moves. Dray tried a swim but Tatum had a hold of him. Tatum just did good job like he is supposed to.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhG2iUSsidI

This is a vid praising Moses Malone and it isn't the best example of how physical things got. Watch the play at 2:44. The guy just gets up and walks away,
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3w95NNEd3I


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clNRrT47tgo
 

lars10

Member
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Jul 31, 2007
12,478
Trying to compare that to a swim move? He grabs him by the throat and then the arm.. you're clip shows how much of a difference it was from a normal attempt.. he's not trying a swim move in the traditional sense in any way.. and we're helluva long way from 1985. Horford got called for a flagrant for being in the landing zone on a three pointer tonite.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
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Dec 7, 2008
11,431
I wasn't aware that part of a swim move was grabbing the guy and trying to rip his arm off
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
13,339
Trying to compare that to a swim move? He grabs him by the throat and then the arm.. you're clip shows how much of a difference it was from a normal attempt.. he's not trying a swim move in the traditional sense in any way.. and we're helluva long way from 1985. Horford got called for a flagrant for being in the landing zone on a three pointer tonite.
Exactly. No one would complain about a physical series, called evenly both ways. Uber-physical basketball would heavily favor the Celtics, since Steph would no longer be able to walk after a couple quarters of 90s style officiating.

The issue is that the league was trying to allow physical play one way to give their aging golden boys a chance to stay competitive in a series where, as is now clear, they're the inferior team.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
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Apr 3, 2001
45,108
Mtigawi
Tatum is clearly off. I’m not the expert that a lot of you guys are but when he’s on him going to the left side of the basket is like magic, and when he’s off he looks like what I’d look like driving to the hoop laying it up with my left hand.

Fortunately for the Celts, this version of off Tatum has still been pretty good, particularly helping the rest of the team in other ways.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,784
Tatum is clearly off. I’m not the expert that a lot of you guys are but when he’s on him going to the left side of the basket is like magic, and when he’s off he looks like what I’d look like driving to the hoop laying it up with my left hand.

Fortunately for the Celts, this version of off Tatum has still been pretty good, particularly helping the rest of the team in other ways.
I think it’s the wear and tear of a long, tough playoff run. He’s looked a little ragged at times and I’m sure his shoulder is not 100%. On a couple of his drives last night is finishes just looked…tired. But he’s fighting through it and, as you say, making the right plays for the team. I think we’re still to see his defining moment in this series.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Dec 12, 2002
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This series is between an older, shorter, more experienced, better executing team in the Warriors and a younger, longer, less experienced, often inconsistent team in the Celtics.

This ends up working to the advantage of one team or the other depending on how the game plays out.

The biggest way it avantages the Celtics, when it does, is that in playoff basketball they can just outlast teams, including Golden State. There have been a few games in this playoffss where the 4th quarter has gone to the Celtics because, by that point in the game, the Celtics just have more left in the tank.

What cuts against the Celtics is that they can be sloppy at both ends. When they are playing their offense right, they are hard to stop, but teams adjust and they look clueless and ineffective for long stretches. Similar on defense.

In game 2 they were simily too far behind to just outlast the Warriors for the win. In game 3, they weren't.

After a strong first half led by Brown's magnificent 17 point first quarter, the Celtics were up 12. Midway through the third, the Warriors had cut the lead to 8, but Jayson Tatum opened it back up to 11 by drilling a 3, Celtics 82-71. Golden State responded to that with a 12-0 run to give them an 83-82 lead with 3:45 to go. This included what ended up being a 7-point play from Curry - he drilled a three and was fouled by Horford, who got up top but also undercut his landing area resulting in a flagrant foul being called (correctly). Curry hit the free throw and Porter drilled a 3.

But, Marcus drilled a three on the next possession to put the Celtcs up 85-83 and they never looked back. From the point at which the Warriors led by 1 (3:45 of the third) to the end of the game - 15:45 of game play - Boston outscored them 34 to 17.

The Celtics missed free throws (shot only 17-24), missed layups, struggled to cover Steph and Klay at various times, and gave up a bunch of points off turnovers, though they were mostly better with the ball than they have been in some games in this run. But at the end of the day they were there at the end playing at a higher level than Golden State.

There were some gaudy scoring numbers for various Celtics: Brown, Tatum, and Smart combined for 77 points, 22 rebounds, and 19 assists. Tatum had a 26 point/9 assist/6 rebound/2 TO game that again showcased his ability to create for teammates when doubled. Brown had 27 points, 5 assists, 9 rebounds, 2 TO. I don't think he has the passing vision of Tatum, but he's figured out how to use what he has. Smart's game was more up and down. The 24 point/5 assist/5 rebound part of it looks great, and Smart both drilled a couple of key threes and found ways to get inside and score. But the 5 turnovers, at least 3 of which were on terrible forced passes similar to what he did n game 2 was worrisome. Horford also had a nice game, playing only 30 minutes and adding 11 points/8rebounds/6 assists without a turnover.

But for all of that, I will always think of this game as the Rob game, or possibly as the Williams game. Rob's stat line doesn't necessarily jump off the page: 8 points, 10 rebounds, 0 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks in 25 minutes - at least not until you get to the steals/blocks part, but Rob took over the early part of the 4th quarter in the way that only he can - and in a way that we haven't really seen from Rob since before his injury. He's clearly still playing hurt, and he has given the Celtics some good playoff minutes during this run even with the injury. But in this game it felt like something clicked with Rob in figuring out how to play effectively despite the injury.

Again, his 4th quarter line does not jump out: 2 points on 1-1 shooting (a lob finish after the outcome was basically over), 4 rebounds, no assists, 3 steals, 1 block. But that early part of the 4th where the Celtics were rebuilding their lead felt like one of those "Rob is everywhere" quarters. He had only one block, but he changed or discouraged shots. Three big steals leading to transition, all Curry passes. Only 4 rebounds but he kept balls alive in the offensive end.

Grant had a low key strong offensive game, too. Ten points 5 rebounds in 20 minutes and did not shoot well from three but had some critical putbacks.

Edit: The reffing was more consistent in this one. Jaylen was called early for a shoulder to the defender's chest offensive foul that looked borderline to me (nothing like the way Draymond drilled Grant with the shoulder in game 2), but that play was consistently called a foul throughout.

Draymond is a little whiny POS. He jumped on top of Brown in a scrum and came up bitching about the officiating. Horford and Curry dove for a loose ball, Horford falling on Curry's legs, and Draymond, who deliberately jumps on players whenever he gets the chance, got all up in the refs fac for not calling something on Horford. Can't stand that guy. There were a couple of times when it seemed like he was getting Celtic players (Grant, Jaylen) to start responding to his antics, but luckily they mostly did not.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
31,603
The main thing over three games.. if the Warriors are in front they play amazing.. the second they face any adversity they start getting nervous and missing. The difference in Poole's play between game 2 and games 1 and 3 is stark.. Crazy how he completely disappeared again tonite.
GSW has been behind in all 3 games. For Poole, the difference between G2 and G3 was BOS's defense. Some of it is lineup choices (note Theis did not play at all last night as BOS went smaller for first 3 quarters); some of it was keeping TOs down, but a lot was just that IMO BOS played better defense.
 

Pitt the Elder

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Sep 7, 2013
4,465
Exactly. No one would complain about a physical series, called evenly both ways. Uber-physical basketball would heavily favor the Celtics, since Steph would no longer be able to walk after a couple quarters of 90s style officiating.

The issue is that the league was trying to allow physical play one way to give their aging golden boys a chance to stay competitive in a series where, as is now clear, they're the inferior team.
I'm no expert, but it seems like a problem when the officials start selectively enforcing the rules because they don't want to eject an impact player for anything short of an egregious play, which tacitly allows Green to continue an illegal style of play that prevents Boston from scoring points.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
47,660
Agreed. His Podcast is stirring up all kinds of stuff basketball unrelated. I wonder if the fans/Cedric don't single him out if he went radio silent during the Finals

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiQHuyCnGws
It’s so adorable watching him try to claim moral superiority when he’s out there literally trying to hurt his opponents.

But, whatever, if I were playing as poorly as he is, I’d try to put the attention on anything else as well.
 

Ed Hillel

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Dec 12, 2007
45,587
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Jesus Christ, these guys are babies. It’s the NBA, nobody’s throwing shit at you or pointing lasers in your eyes, get over it.
 

sonofgodcf

Guest
Jul 17, 2005
1,646
The toilet.
It’s so adorable watching him try to claim moral superiority when he’s out there literally trying to hurt his opponents.

But, whatever, if I were playing as poorly as he is, I’d try to put the attention on anything else as well.
Seriously. Multiple times a game he trips people from the ground. I wasn't in the game thread, but did anyone call out him when he tried to take out TL's legs? Think it was in the second quarter, just a dirty move.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
25,241
It’s so adorable watching him try to claim moral superiority when he’s out there literally trying to hurt his opponents.

But, whatever, if I were playing as poorly as he is, I’d try to put the attention on anything else as well.
I don't think he was claiming moral superiority. He even said, "F you too" at the end of that rant. He said it's no big deal, that's life.

I do chuckle at the idea that somehow Boston fans' behavior is out of the ordinary. This is the NBA finals, and Draymond was playing Game 2 like he was Lawrence Taylor, then whining about it. The best play from last night was when he reached in, grabbed Brown's arm - not even CLOSE to the ball actually - which dislodged the ball, and when Brown hit the deck to get possession, Draymond literally dove straight on top of Brown - again, not coming close to getting the ball. When the refs called a foul on him, he got up and complained about it.

So yeah, it's not surprising that the Celtics crowd is going to ride him very hard when he fouls out of a game (which, by the way, him fouling out was basically the most easily predictable thing ever after his comments after game 2....he won't foul out of this series again. Oh, and the refs handled it just as I suggested they should...just call the fouls he commits and don't sweat him whining.).
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
31,099
Man, this series is really exposing how much of a step Draymond has lost. His only chance out in space is to foul like crazy and hope they can't call 'em all.
I so want to hear that from a Celtic. "It's understandable why he has to play that way."
 

Kliq

Member
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Mar 31, 2013
23,153
I know this is cherry picked but to me the difference in GSW's defense versus BOS's defense in the two clips below is striking and says almost everything about this series.

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1534721133311840257
Tatum sometimes attacks immediately when he has a mismatch; but other times he also has the mismatch and he waits because he knows the double-team is coming, and he draws it and kicks it to the open guy. It's really opened up his playmaking during the playoffs.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,153
This series is between an older, shorter, more experienced, better executing team in the Warriors and a younger, longer, less experienced, often inconsistent team in the Celtics.

This ends up working to the advantage of one team or the other depending on how the game plays out.

The biggest way it avantages the Celtics, when it does, is that in playoff basketball they can just outlast teams, including Golden State. There have been a few games in this playoffss where the 4th quarter has gone to the Celtics because, by that point in the game, the Celtics just have more left in the tank.

What cuts against the Celtics is that they can be sloppy at both ends. When they are playing their offense right, they are hard to stop, but teams adjust and they look clueless and ineffective for long stretches. Similar on defense.

In game 2 they were simily too far behind to just outlast the Warriors for the win. In game 3, they weren't.

After a strong first half led by Brown's magnificent 17 point first quarter, the Celtics were up 12. Midway through the third, the Warriors had cut the lead to 8, but Jayson Tatum opened it back up to 11 by drilling a 3, Celtics 82-71. Golden State responded to that with a 12-0 run to give them an 83-82 lead with 3:45 to go. This included what ended up being a 7-point play from Curry - he drilled a three and was fouled by Horford, who got up top but also undercut his landing area resulting in a flagrant foul being called (correctly). Curry hit the free throw and Porter drilled a 3.

But, Marcus drilled a three on the next possession to put the Celtcs up 85-83 and they never looked back. From the point at which the Warriors led by 1 (3:45 of the third) to the end of the game - 15:45 of game play - Boston outscored them 34 to 17.

The Celtics missed free throws (shot only 17-24), missed layups, struggled to cover Steph and Klay at various times, and gave up a bunch of points off turnovers, though they were mostly better with the ball than they have been in some games in this run. But at the end of the day they were there at the end playing at a higher level than Golden State.

There were some gaudy scoring numbers for various Celtics: Brown, Tatum, and Smart combined for 77 points, 22 rebounds, and 19 assists. Tatum had a 26 point/9 assist/6 rebound/2 TO game that again showcased his ability to create for teammates when doubled. Brown had 27 points, 5 assists, 9 rebounds, 2 TO. I don't think he has the passing vision of Tatum, but he's figured out how to use what he has. Smart's game was more up and down. The 24 point/5 assist/5 rebound part of it looks great, and Smart both drilled a couple of key threes and found ways to get inside and score. But the 5 turnovers, at least 3 of which were on terrible forced passes similar to what he did n game 2 was worrisome. Horford also had a nice game, playing only 30 minutes and adding 11 points/8rebounds/6 assists without a turnover.

But for all of that, I will always think of this game as the Rob game, or possibly as the Williams game. Rob's stat line doesn't necessarily jump off the page: 8 points, 10 rebounds, 0 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks in 25 minutes - at least not until you get to the steals/blocks part, but Rob took over the early part of the 4th quarter in the way that only he can - and in a way that we haven't really seen from Rob since before his injury. He's clearly still playing hurt, and he has given the Celtics some good playoff minutes during this run even with the injury. But in this game it felt like something clicked with Rob in figuring out how to play effectively despite the injury.

Again, his 4th quarter line does not jump out: 2 points on 1-1 shooting (a lob finish after the outcome was basically over), 4 rebounds, no assists, 3 steals, 1 block. But that early part of the 4th where the Celtics were rebuilding their lead felt like one of those "Rob is everywhere" quarters. He had only one block, but he changed or discouraged shots. Three big steals leading to transition, all Curry passes. Only 4 rebounds but he kept balls alive in the offensive end.

Grant had a low key strong offensive game, too. Ten points 5 rebounds in 20 minutes and did not shoot well from three but had some critical putbacks.

Edit: The reffing was more consistent in this one. Jaylen was called early for a shoulder to the defender's chest offensive foul that looked borderline to me (nothing like the way Draymond drilled Grant with the shoulder in game 2), but that play was consistently called a foul throughout.

Draymond is a little whiny POS. He jumped on top of Brown in a scrum and came up bitching about the officiating. Horford and Curry dove for a loose ball, Horford falling on Curry's legs, and Draymond, who deliberately jumps on players whenever he gets the chance, got all up in the refs fac for not calling something on Horford. Can't stand that guy. There were a couple of times when it seemed like he was getting Celtic players (Grant, Jaylen) to start responding to his antics, but luckily they mostly did not.
Rob's rim protection I think is huge when it comes to defending Curry. It allows Celtics' perimeter defenders to get right up on him and concede that he might get past them, and having that security blanket behind them is huge. Rob's last block was a great example of this; Grant got switched onto Curry, he played intense ball pressure; Curry got by him, and then tried to sneak a floater over Rob, who jumped 20 feet in the air to send it back. Curry is really good and he will adjust; probably with more mid-range jumpers, but the Celtics will live with those over him knocking down 4-6 threes in a quarter.